Vol. 488 No. 4
6 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the main events planned for his visit to the United States around St. Patrick's day; if he will meet President Clinton; if so, the matters he intends to discuss with him; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6308/98]
7 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has to visit Northern Ireland. [6366/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 7 together.
I will visit Canada and the United States for St. Patrick's Day. I will travel to Toronto on 13 March where I will attend and address a lunch hosted by the Ireland Fund of Canada. I will subsequently attend a dinner hosted by the recently appointed Lieutenant Governor of Ontario, Mrs. Hilary Weston. On Saturday, 14 March my engagements will include a breakfast meeting with the Apostles — a cross-tradition organisation of business people with strong Irish backgrounds and connections. Later that day, recognising the significant contribution of the Irish to Ontario and the wider Canadian nation, I will attend the 10th Anniversary St. Patrick's Day parade.
I will travel directly from Toronto to Washington, where I will participate in the now customary celebrations in the USA which highlight and celebrate the Irish in America. These celebrations which highlight the Irish community and Ireland, present unrivalled opportunities to focus key individuals and the media on important issues of concern to Ireland — primarily the peace process and the search for a settlement on Northern Ireland and, of course, investment and tourism opportunities and other attractive aspects of Ireland for those concerned.
I will liaise with various key individuals and organisations which support Ireland, including key Senators and Congressmen. I will participate in the Co-Operation North breakfast and attend the American Ireland Fund dinner in Washington. On St. Patrick's Day itself, I look forward to meeting again with President Clinton at the White House for the now traditional presentation of shamrock.
Among the other functions I will attend are a lunch hosted by Speaker Gingrich, to be attended by the President, at the Capitol; a reception hosted by President Clinton at the White House in the evening; and a breakfast meeting with the Ireland America Economic Advisory Board.
I will avail of my meetings with President Clinton to update him on recent developments in, and prospects for, the peace process; to thank him for the ongoing and invaluable assistance of his Administration; and to indicate to him how best they can assist in the peace process as we enter the crucial stages of the multi-party negotiations.
As the House will be aware, I recently visited Northern Ireland and I subsequently reported comprehensively to the House on that visit. I have no immediate plans for a further visit.
I wish the Taoiseach well on his visit to the United States and Canada. I compliment him on including Canada in his visit to North America. It was not always on the itinerary. It is important to recognise that there are three countries in North America.
What are the implications for the Mitchell principles of the two punishment shootings reported to have occurred in republican areas in the last 24 hours? What steps are being taken to investigate the responsibility for those punishment shootings, which are clearly in breach of the Mitchell principles? What sanctions are contemplated in regard to any political associates of those who have been involved?
In recent days a number of incidents have occurred which are being examined by the security forces. There is no particular information in regard to any of them and no group has claimed responsibility. I am sure we will receive reports on these incidents from the security advisers. It would be unhelpful of me to speculate further on any of the issues, including punishment beatings, the attacks on Armagh RUC station and a number of recent bomb attacks which seem to be associated with both sides of the divide.
Does the Taoiseach agree there are certain areas in the major cities of the North which are so strongly controlled by one paramilitary organisation that no punishment beating or shooting could take place there without being sanctioned by the paramilitary organisation in charge of the area? Will he agree, therefore, that it is not difficult to attribute responsibility for a punishment shooting once one knows the organisation that is effectively controlling a given area?
Regardless of whether that is the case I agree with Deputy Bruton that in the normal communities that was not too difficult in the past. Visiting Northern Ireland today, however, one can see how that is changing. From the graffiti on the walls in these areas one can see who is claiming responsibility. Unfortunately, one of the current difficulties is that there is almost competition in regard to who is controlling the walls to be used for graffiti, which is sad. The problem is not a simple one and it is not easy to be sure about who is in what organisation.
Will the Taoiseach agree that the "no claim, no blame" policy being adopted by a number of paramilitary organisations has the potential to gravely undermine the Mitchell principles in practice? Will he agree also that there is a need for a unit to be established which does not simply comprise the RUC or the Garda Síochána but has other wider capacities to make judgment to ensure that the day to day application of the Mitchell principles takes place and so-called minor breaches, like punishment beatings and shootings, are also sanctioned, and that the Mitchell principles are not seen only to apply to major events but must be applied on a daily basis to protect people from mob law?
I agree the Mitchell principles have to be upheld and that they should apply to all these activities, including punishment beatings. That is a regular activity which does not seem to get as much attention. Recent punishment beatings as well as the bomb attacks on police stations are the hallmarks of paramilitary groups but we do not have information on precisely who they are. As far as monitoring the Mitchell principles is concerned, we have been examining that issue following recent events to see what we can do to keep abreast of the atrocities. There are small groups in certain areas determined to find ways around this issue who are probably outside the formal structure of paramilitaries, although that may not be the case in regard to some of them. We have to find some mechanism whereby we can keep track of all these groups. I agree the Mitchell principles are in favour of upholding democracy and are against violence. It has not been said in this House but I do not like the interpretation that a particular activity was a minor breach. Having one's knee blown off or getting hit with a hammer is as bad as any other offence.
Hear, hear.
I do not like the type of definitions people try to put on these activities.
I join others in deploring the recent punishment beatings and the savagery attached to them. I fully agree with the Taoiseach that these are not minor events, they are particularly savage forms of attack. Will he agree that those involved in the talks should not be diverted by the attempts being made by those opposed to the talks to derail them? Will he further agree that many such attempts will be made, as they come closer to what will I hope be a successful conclusion?
We will do everything we can in that regard. The Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is attending the talks today on behalf of the Government. She has condemned these attacks at the talks and the normal agenda for the day is being followed. That is how we must deal with all of these issues.
Will the Taoiseach accept that I strongly agree with remarks he made over the weekend to the effect that the crucial issues in the talks are the equality agenda, including policing? Will he agree also that the ultimate way of ending punishment beatings is to have an acceptable policing arrangement where police operating under the rule of law take over all responsibilities from groups currently acting outside the law? In that context will the Taoiseach give the House information about progress currently being made between the Governments and the parties on issues of policing? Are proposals being considered on this issue?
Many proposals are being considered. Some of the legislation the British Government has brought forward in the present session is useful in that it deals with policing issues. It is not, however, substantial enough to deal with the great differences in the community on policing. For a policing authority to command support in an area it must command respect, and that must be earned. There are major difficulties in that regard. There are outlines of improvements that could be made, but it would be wrong to give the impression that they are near agreement.
I have had numerous meetings, as had Deputy Bruton and his predecessors in the past, with the British Prime Minister to highlight what needs to be done, but there is still no acceptance of the radical reform required before Nationalist and Unionist communities agree. Much more needs to be done. While I welcome the legislative changes made on policing in recent months in the House of Commons, they do not meet requirements.
Will the Taoiseach agree there is considerable contrast between the shenanigans that took place three weeks ago at Dublin Castle and the Four Courts when Sinn Féin and associates complained about being suspended from the talks and the present position where Sinn Féin has not taken the opportunity to become reinvolved in the talks at the earliest possible moment? Its chief negotiator intends to fly to the United States, apparently to raise funds, rather than become involved in discussions with the British Prime Minister on Thursday of this week. Will the Taoiseach agree that in both cases there is little indication of the engagement on which that party put emphasis up to now?
I hope Sinn Féin will be back in the talks shortly and that the meeting with the British Prime Minister later this week is successful.
