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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 8 Oct 1998

Vol. 494 No. 6

Ceisteanna — Questions. Priority Questions. - Accounting Procedures.

Alan Shatter

Ceist:

1 Mr. Shatter asked the Minister for Health and Children the discussions, if any, he had in his Department or the memo or documentation, if any, received prior to a decision being made to request the United Kingdom authorities to delay payment of a sum of £20 million due in December 1997 to January 1998 to reimburse his Department under EU regulations for the cost of health services provided to persons insured for health services in the United Kingdom; whether he was party to the letter sent in November 1997 requesting the United Kingdom authorities to delay payment and to the decision made following receipt of the sum of £20 million by the Central Bank on 16 December 1997 to delay issuing accounting instructions to the bank to credit these moneys to his Department's account until January 1998 to prevent this sum being brought to account as appropriations-in-aid in 1997 in order that the appropriation account for that year's Vote would not reflect the full receipts proper to 1997; and his views on whether conducting his Department's accounting processes accords with proper procedures and his obligation to properly account to Dáil Éireann. [19014/98]

The matter raised by Deputy Shatter is essentially a matter of accounting and, as such, would be dealt with by my officials. This matter was not raised specifically with me, but taken by finance unit officials of my Department as a normal operational matter. The matter is covered in a comprehensive way by the Comptroller and Auditor General in his annual report on my Department's 1997 appropriation accounts.

In summary, my officials were faced with a very difficult situation in relation to a particular reimbursement of £20 million from the UK Department of Health. The UK authorities initiated a review of the recoupment methodology in 1996. There were unresolved issues associated with this review which made the calculation of the net liability of the UK authorities somewhat uncertain during 1997. The situation was further compounded arising from the change in the calendar for the public finances in 1997. These changes resulted in a more streamlined process and the moving forward of the 1997 Supplementary Estimate, the agreeing of the abridged Estimates for 1998 and the bringing forward of the date for the 1998 budget.

In order to meet the new deadlines and having regard to the uncertainty surrounding the UK liability, my officials were unable to agree final figures with their UK colleagues and thereby applied a prudent approach to appropriations-in-aid receipts, projecting a sum lower than the eventual total reimbursement.

There were few options open to my officials for dealing with this matter. The figure in respect of the 1997 Supplementary Estimate and the 1998 abridged book were agreed by Government well in advance of knowing the total UK liability. Following full and careful consideration, and with the objective of dealing with the matter in a fair and transparent manner, it was decided to take this exceptional item into the 1998 accounting period. In choosing this, my officials were conscious that the funding is, in the first instance, given by the UK authorities to defray the cost of providing services to their citizens. Therefore, it was imperative for my Department that the £20 million in question was seen to be benefiting the health services. I am satisfied that the manner in which this was eventually treated fully achieved this objective.

In the case of this Department's dealings with the Central Bank, my officials spoke to officials there in order to fully understand the process of receiving and clearing such payments.

The Minister's time has concluded.

My officials did not request the Central Bank to delay the transfer. My Department authorised the transfer and this was done on 5 January 1998.

Is the Minister saying that at no time in November or December did his officials consult him about this matter?

They did not.

Is the Minister saying that when the Votes for the Department were being presented, he was unaware they were inaccurate?

I do not accept they were inaccurate. If the Deputy reads in full the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, he will be aware that where there is a disagreement or difference of opinion between the Comptroller and Auditor General and the line Department, advice is usually sought from the Department of Finance. The report states that in cases of disagreement between an accounting officer, the Secretary General and the Comptroller and Auditor General in regard to the accounting treatment of transactions, it is customary to obtain the views of the Department of Finance which has overall repsonsibility for public financial procedures. Accordingly, the Comptroller and Auditor General sought the views of the Secretary General of the Department of Finance in relation to the accounting treatment of the receipt and whether it should have been accounted for in the 1997 appropriation account.

In response to the first issue, the Department of Finance stated that it had not previously been informed or consulted about the matter but, had it been, it would have been obliged to advise that it should have been brought to account promptly in line with the provisions of public financial procedures. In response to the second issue, the Department stated it was conscious the appropriations account is a cash-based record of receipts and payments compared with the Estimate provision in the year in question. Accordingly, the Department of Finance was not convinced that at that stage a receipt brought to account in January 1998 should have been recorded as an appropriation-in-aid in the appropriation accounts of 1997. In other words, the Department of Finance was not convinced that the Comptroller and Auditor General's view was the correct one in this case. The Department of Finance was of the view that it was preferable to deal with the receipt in the context of the 1998 accounts.

This issue relates to technical adjustments conducted by the finance unit and accounting officer and the Department is satisfied the matter was dealt with properly and in good faith. The incident related to a particular, once-off difficulty which is unlikely to occur again. In effect, the £20 million will be available in respect of supplementary funding in the current year. Members will see this in a transparent manner when we are considering the 1998 Supplementary Estimate.

The Comptroller and Auditor General is a constitutional officer and his view of whether accounting procedures have been properly followed should ultimately be complied with. Does the Minister accept the Comptroller and Auditor General's statement that one of the fundamental principles on which accounting is based is substance, not form? Does the Minister accept the Comptroller and Auditor General's opinion that the failure to include a sum of £20 million as appropriations-in-aid in 1997 meant the Vote did not reflect the Department's full financial position? Does the Minister agree that it is in the public and national interest that when Departments account to this House for expenditure and financial inputs, the House should be able to rely on the accounts as being accurate and not be placed in the position where they must second guess whether a particular Department is concealing the existence of funds received by it? In this case, £20 million was received by the Central Bank on 16 December which the Minister's officials failed to inform the bank to transfer to departmental accounts.

The six minutes allocated for this question have expired.

There is no question of concealment here. The report of the Comptroller and Auditor General states that in the case of a disagreement with the line Department, the views of the Department of Finance are sought. This is a technical issue which has been dealt with transparently. The Deputy is making a mountain out of a molehill.

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