It is proposed to take No. a5 on a Supplementary Order Paper, motion re. leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 19, 20 and 21]; No. b5 on a Supplementary Order Paper, motion re. referral of Supplementary Estimates [Votes 19, 20 and 21] to Select Committee; and No. 2 the Irish Sports Council Bill, 1998, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. a5 and b5 on a Supplementary Order Paper shall be decided without debate and that any division demanded on No. a5 shall be taken forthwith. Private Members' Business shall be No. 50 — motion re. pro rata pensions for the self-employed.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a5 and b5 agreed? Agreed.
Given the controversy about the deportation of a Romanian family, would the Taoiseach consider it useful to hold a debate on the policy being pursued with regard to deportation of immigrants so that the House will understand the circumstances which led to this order being made, the grounds for it being found not to be adequate and the Minister having to reconsider the matter?
There are a number of options open to Members to raise this issue. I understand there are many cases in various stages of appeal. This case had gone through the entire system over a long period and the Minister has made the facts known. However, it is open to Members to submit questions or raise the matter in other ways.
In his statement yesterday the Minister said that while the circumstances in the case are not such as to distinguish it from a number of others by reference to a humanitarian dimension, he was aware of certain facts. Some were mentioned by Deputy Currie, including the days that were lost between contacts. The Minister has appointed a senior official in his Department to investigate these matters and report back to him. In the interim he has decided that the enforcement of the deportation order be deferred and the official will look at the circumstances in which the order was made and the circumstances surrounding the attempt to implement it last Thursday.
In view of the problems that have arisen in this highly publicised case — they are the cases we hear about; we do not hear about cases which may be similar — will the Taoiseach indicate if and when the Refugee Act will be implemented so that problems of this kind can be resolved?
Various commencement dates have to be reached before the Act can be implemented. The Minister recently made statements on that which are in the public domain.
Will the Taoiseach indicate if the Estimates have been agreed and when they are likely to be published? Is it intended that the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs will make a statement in the House regarding the announcement made by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Keeffe, at the weekend regarding pro rata self-employed pensions?
It was already made by me.
The first part of the Deputy's question is in order.
Both my questions are in order. The second one relates to legislation which was promised by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Keeffe. Is the Minister prepared to make a statement in the House rather than having these matters announced over the airwaves? When can we expect to see the promised legislation?
As regards the first question, I understand the Minister for Finance will publish the Book of Estimates on 11 November. In relation to the second question, some weeks ago the Minister made it absolutely clear that this matter would be dealt with in the budget.
On a point of order, the Minister of State, Deputy O'Keeffe, announced on radio that the Government was bringing in legislation to provide for pro rata self-employed pensions on a contributory basis. Will the Taoiseach indicate when that legislation will be brought before the House?
The Taoiseach has answered the question.
When is it intended to legislate?
Perhaps I was not precise enough. Decisions in the budget speech will, in the normal way, be taken in the next social welfare Bill. That is what the Minister, Deputy Ahern, stated when he made his announcement on 15 October.
The Government promised a Bill to enable contributions to be made by the Government to alleviate Third World debt. When will it be published? Will we have it in this session?
The Bretton Woods Agreement (Amendment) Bill will be published late this year — before Christmas, I hope.
Why is it not possible for thousands of farmers to ring Hume House to find out about their area aid applications?
It was closed down for three weeks.
Why have many farmers not received a single penny in headage payments this year? I cannot understand why the Fianna Fáil back benchers are so quiet about it.
(Mayo): A few moments ago the Taoiseach said it was proposed to go ahead with the Refugee Act and that certain commencement orders had to be made. Is it the Government's intention to go ahead with all sections of that Act? The dispute concerning the commissioner appears farcical in view of the fact that some of the people who have been brought in by the Minister are former civil servants in their seventies. The age issue has been amply dealt with by the manner in which the recruitment was carried out.
It is appropriate to ask about the legislation but not to go into detail on it.
(Mayo): May I ask about the prison service Bill? Mountjoy jail is packed with 200 inmates above the official capacity. At the same time Loughan House, with a total capacity of 90, has only 40 inmates. Surely there is a need for some co-ordination.
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
(Mayo): It is. When can we expect to see the prison service Bill?
As regards the first matter, the legislation was passed. The enactment of certain sections is a matter for the Minister, who recently made announcements on that.
It will be next year before the prison service Bill is before the House.
Does the Taoiseach propose to introduce legislation to protect consumer interests pending the introduction of the euro? Consumers lost out badly when decimalisation was introduced in 1971. Has the Taoiseach any legislation in mind to protect the consumer?
The Director of Consumer Affairs is dealing with that matter. The director has considerable powers and, so far as I am aware, no legislation is required.
A recent survey published in the Irish Independent showed that 3,700 children are in care and 100 are appearing in the Dublin courts each week. The situation was described as horrendous by one of the Taoiseach's Ministers. He said “there can be no understanding of the extent of this problem”.
A question on legislation, Deputy Neville.
When will the Children Bill be introduced on Committee Stage?
It is before the committee. It can be pursued whenever the committee wishes.
We have been hearing that for the past six months.
Does the Taoiseach consider that legislation will be necessary to govern the operation of intervention? Has he taken any steps to ensure the operation of intervention is not left in the hands of the same people who exposed the State to enormous liabilities?
Is legislation promised? Deputy Michael Finucane.
Will you permit the Taoiseach to answer the question, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle?
It is about legislation that is promised, Deputy Rabbitte, not about whether——
You may as well shut down this House Sir, if we conduct it in the way you want. With all due respect, I asked a question and I would like to hear the Taoiseach's reply.
Deputy Rabbitte, I ask you to resume your seat. You asked whether the Taoiseach intended to introduce legislation. It is appropriate to ask a question about legislation that has been promised. The Order of Business would never end if Members were allowed to ask whether legislation might be introduced on a particular topic.
Hear, hear.
In the last row I had with you, Sir, I came out second best. I do not want to provoke another, but I want an answer from the Taoiseach and I would be obliged if you would permit him to answer the question.
Is the legislation promised?
Is the Deputy talking about the control of FEOGA guidance?
No, intervention.
The monitoring, supervision and operation of intervention.
I do not think legislation is required in that area.
It is needed, in view of our experience.
As we head into winter, the fishing industry has been devastated over the past few days by three different tragedies. Our hearts go out to the Boyle and Moore families in Donegal who have a long wait ahead of them. Our thoughts are also with the Coursey family in Whiddy Island and the six Spanish fishermen who lost their lives. I welcome the fact that the Minister has instituted an investigation.
Does the Deputy have a question relative to the Order of Business?
Yes. I hope the investigation will not take as long as previous ones, which have taken anything from three to five years. We are still awaiting publication of those reports.
Temporary legislation was introduced some months ago to allow foreign persons to carry firearms in the State. At that time the Minister promised permanent comprehensive legislation. As we have now entered the current shooting season, will he indicate when we might see the permanent legislation that he promised?
The consultation process that was promised by the Minister at the time has just been concluded. The Minister will now be able to proceed.
What is the present position in relation to the Gaeltacht Housing (Amendment) Bill, which has been promised?
Will the Taoiseach allow time this week for statements on the tragedies in Honduras and Nicaragua to enable the Minister for Foreign Affairs to indicate the Irish position in terms of responding with aid?
It will be early next year before the Gaeltacht housing Bill goes through the House.
If the Whips agree, I would prefer to have statements in the House this week on the terrible tragedies in Central American countries. It is reported today that almost 7,000 people have been killed there. If time can be made available for statements, I would agree to that.
When he introduced the amendment to the Finance Act in relation to house prices and changes in tax relief for rental accommodation, the Minister for Finance indicated he hoped it would be a temporary measure. In view of the ongoing lack of rental accommodation in Dublin and the increased prices being charged for such accommodation, does the Taoiseach agree it is time to introduce further measures to make more rental accommodation available to those who are not in a position to purchase houses?
Does this relate to promised legislation?
Yes, it was promised when he was introducing the legislation. It was clearly stated in the House by the Minister that this was a temporary measure that would have a dramatic effect in the short-term and that further changes would be introduced at a later date. When will those further changes take place?
There is no change currently. If the Deputy wishes, he can pursue it directly with the Minister.
What has happened to the Health (Amendment) Bill which the Tánaiste firmly promised we would have last September? When can we expect it to be published?
The Bill will be published this session.
Dr. Upton
Is the Taoiseach aware of a recent opinion poll which showed that the public hold politicians in very low esteem? Does he propose to do anything about it, by way of studying it, by way of providing an opportunity for a debate, or by way of seeking to understand what has gone wrong with the profession?
That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.
The Taoiseach indicated earlier in a reply to Deputy De Rossa that the Estimates will be published tomorrow week. Is it the Government's intention to have a debate on the Estimates prior to the budget?
Yes.
In relation to the debate scheduled for Thursday — entitled in the schedule for the week, Statements on EU Structural Funds, which I presume relates to the proposals on regionalisation — is it the Government's intention that those proposals will be published in advance of that debate, or is that the debate in which the Government's proposals will be outlined?
The Government has not made a decision yet. I was asked by the leaders in the House some weeks ago for a debate before that decision is made. That debate will be held this week before the Government makes any decision.
Do I take it the Government will outline its preferences in the course of the statements and enable the House to respond before a final decision is made?
It wants everyone else to make the decision for it.
The Government would have made a decision a few weeks ago but the House wanted to have its view recorded. I am sure options will be spelt out during the debate.
This is the longest running show in town, a repeat of Cinderella at the Olympia. The Government cannot make a decision. It wants everyone else to make the decision.
(Interruptions.)
It is a crab like system — the Government keeps going around in a circle and it will eventually stop.
Does the Taoiseach agree that, if we are to use scarce parliamentary time in as constructive a manner as possible, it would be particularly valuable for the Government to publish either the draft document or the memorandum that has already been brought to Government by the Minister for Finance, or a document based on that, rather than have an open-ended debate.
It is not appropriate to have a detailed debate on this.
We had a debate which lasted effectively an hour and a half on two occasions during Question Time. Officials appeared before the relevant committee where the matter was spelt out. All the options have been well aired. Now it is a matter for the House to put forward its view, if it has one. The Government has a view. The House asked for a debate, and it should put forward its views.
Is it correct that we will not hear the Government's view on Thursday because it does not as yet have a view?
It is not appropriate to have a debate on this matter.