It is proposed to take No. 22 — statements on health. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 22, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 4.45 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of the Minister or the Minister of State and the main spokespersons for Fine Gael and the Labour Party shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; statements of the main spokespersons for Democratic Left, the Green Party and each other Member called upon shall not exceed 10 minutes in each case; Members may share time. Following the announcement of matters on the Adjournment under Standing Order No. 21, the Minister for Health and Children will take questions which will be brought to a conclusion not later than 4.45 p.m.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 22 agreed? Agreed.
Regarding possible legislation on regionalisation, what would happen to the Government's application for Objective One status for particular areas if new statistics were produced on county income which differed from those on which the application was based? Does any State agency produce figures on a sub-regional basis, at least for internal use?
We discussed this matter for 30 minutes on the Order of Business yesterday. We also discussed it during Question Time and on the Adjournment. I will allow a brief question from each of the party leaders on it. If Deputies want to debate this matter they should use Private Members' time or other means. We cannot have another prolonged discussion on the Order of Business.
A Cheann Comhairle, I understand that you have to implement the rules of the House and that we are restricted on the Order of Business to a limited set of queries. However, at the end of the discussion yesterday I asked the Taoiseach if he would make Government time available for a debate now that we have Deputy Healy-Rae's formal proposal for 15 counties to be submitted to Brussels. I am asking the Taoiseach again if the Government will make time available to debate this matter.
Will the Taoiseach raise this matter with Jacques Santer today? Concern is being expressed, particularly in Dublin, with regard to the Government's failure to achieve tax designation for the integrated area action plans, five of which are in Dublin, including Ballymun. These areas will suffer a double disadvantage as a result of the Government's decision on regionalisation which leaves them at a disadvantage in comparison to the rest of the country with regard to IDA grants.
That would make an excellent parliamentary question.
We will look after Ballymun.
Does the Taoiseach agree that there is a need for a separate debate to deal with the outstanding questions? When he meets Jacques Santer, will he stress that GDP is not the only way of measuring quality of life and that we suffer badly on other indicators?
The figures we use in all discussions are produced by the CSO. We always use up to date CSO figures when they are available.
Are the new figures out today?
I heard figures mentioned this morning based on GDP at regional level featuring EUROSTAT calculations based on the official statistics of member states. This is an annual exercise. Peculiarly, these figures are published at the end of January. The regional material is standardised using purchasing power parities. It always has the effect of giving Ireland a far higher ranking than we would get using our own figures. I would discount these figures.
What is peculiar about these figures?
They have always come out in late January but in this instance they came out this morning.
Why did the Taoiseach use the word "peculiar"?
The figures usually come out in January, not the middle of November.
Who did this?
I do not know. Does the Deputy know?
Deputy Ahern is the Taoiseach.
I do not know but it is peculiar.
Another conspiracy theory.
Please allow the Taoiseach to continue.
Normally when figures are published on a yearly basis——
The figures were published only two days ago.
I must correct Deputy Quinn as he is ball hopping on a wet Thursday morning. These figures are based on months of Govern ment examination and analysis. We will gladly arrange a debate at some stage.
A Cheann Comh airle——
I am not allowing another round of questions. I made a ruling and the rulings of the Chair have to be obeyed. I have allowed each party leader to comment. I ask Deputies to obey the Chair.
On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, I am simply pointing out that the Taoiseach did not answer my question.
The Chair has no control over that. Deputy Quinn wishes to raise a new matter.
Two days ago the newspapers carried reports stating that a Romanian family had commenced a hunger strike because matters relating to their application for asylum have not been resolved. Will the Taoiseach indicate whether the outstanding legal matters in respect of the Refugee Act, 1996, have been settled and whether the Act will be fully implemented in the near future? When will the immigration Bill promised by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform be introduced?
I understand those matters are almost resolved and that the Minister will shortly be ready to proceed in respect of them.
I draw the attention of the Taoiseach to the composition of the study group charged with investigating the beef industry.
That is not a matter for the Order of Business. The Deputy should raise the issue in another way. I call Deputy Sargent.
On a point of order, will the Taoiseach indicate if the group will be placed on a statutory footing?
That is not a point of order.
On promised legislation, namely, the fund-raising for charitable and other purposes Bill, I raised this matter in September and October and I am raising it again now. On each occasion I raise it I am informed that other priorities are being attended to in the Department. That excuse is beginning to wear thin, particularly in light of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's announcement that he wants drastic new police measures to be introduced.
It is not in order to make a statement.
This matter is not being dealt with in an honest manner. We have been informed that other matters must be attended to and——
The Deputy is making a statement. He should confine himself to asking a brief question related to the Order of Business.
I am not making a statement, I am trying to get at the truth.
Will the Deputy allow the Taoiseach to reply to his question?
I simply want to get to the——
The Deputy is proceeding to make a statement which is not in order. I ask him to resume his seat.
Ceann Comhairle, I am merely trying to discover——
The Deputy is being disorderly and I will be obliged to ask the Deputy to leave the House if he does not resume his seat.
I want to know——
Will the Deputy resume his seat?
Ceann Comhairle, I merely wish to——
I order the Deputy to leave the House.
Ceann Comhairle, I am trying——
The Deputy must leave the House because he has been ordered to do so by the Chair. I call Deputy John Bruton.
Deputy Sargent withdrew from the Chamber.
Deputies John Bruton and Gormley rose.
On a point of order, will the Taoiseach answer the question posed by Deputy Sargent?
That is not a point of order. Will Deputy Gormley please resume his seat?
On a point of order——
There cannot be a point of order when the Chair is on its feet. Will the Deputy resume his seat?
I am not being disorderly.
I did not call the Deputy, I called Deputy John Bruton. The Chair must be obeyed. I will be obliged to ask the Deputy to leave the House if he does not resume his seat.
Will the Taoiseach indicate the likely timeframe for the introduction of the administrative procedures Bill which will provide rights to private citizens in respect of information and access thereto? In advance of the introduction of that legislation, will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Health and Children to publish the report on waiting lists? For reasons no one understands, the Minister is suppressing the report. It would be helpful if the report were made available to the participants in today's debate and not kept private, given that it was prepared at public expense and involves a matter of grave public concern.
The provisions of the administrative procedures Bill, which is designed to give rights to citizens in their dealings with public bodies, will be included in the ombudsman amendment Bill which will be published in the new year.
Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Health and Children to publish the report on waiting lists prior to today's debate on health? It is not acceptable that the House should debate an issue without having access to information, which is already in the Minister's possession, regarding a matter of critical importance. People will suspect that the Minister has something to hide if he does not publish the report. I advise the Taoiseach to ask him to publish it today.
I note Deputy Bruton's comments and I will make the Minister aware of his views.
I intend no disrespect to the Taoiseach but the debate on health will commence in approximately five minutes. I ask the Minister for Health and Children who is present in the House to publish the report.
Earlier in the week the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform appeared on "Morning Ireland" to discuss the contents of the Leahy report which proposes changes in justice law. Does the Taoiseach intend to make time available to discuss the report and does the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform intend to publish it?
I understand the Minister has received the report, which forms part of the strategic management initiative. He intends to publish it shortly but, as yet, he has not brought forward proposals.
What is the current status of the national inventory of architectural heritage Bill and the national parks and historic properties Bill? Does the Government intend to include County Kerry under the remit of the Western Development Commission?
The Taoiseach will have to ask Deputy Healy-Rae about that.
It is hoped the national inventory of architectural heritage Bill will be published before Christmas. The national parks and historic properties Bill will be published next year. Observations on the draft heads of this Bill have been received from Departments and they are being assessed. It is hoped that drafting will proceed in the new year. The answer to the Deputy's question on the Western Development Commission is "no".
Does the Government intend to publish the equal status Bill before Christmas? When is it intended to implement the Employment Equality Act which was passed last summer? Will the Taoiseach indicate if the equality agenda has reached a standstill or if he foresees any movement in that regard?
The Government has agreed to the drafting of the equal status Bill and it will be published early in 1999.
(Mayo): Last July, banner newspaper headlines proclaimed that the gloves had come off in the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform's crackdown on white collar crime. At that stage we were informed that the fraud offences Bill was a priority and that it would be introduced in the near future. It is proposed to introduce three Bills to deal with fraud, the criminal justice fraud offence Bill, the proceeds of crime Bill — which appears on the list of legislation to be published before Christmas — and the prevention of corruption Bill. Will any of these Bills be published before Christmas? Is white collar crime a priority on the Government's agenda?
It is merely another sound bite.
One of the Bills to which the Deputy referred will be published prior to Christmas. The criminal justice fraud offences Bill will be introduced in mid-1999. A general scheme of the prevention of corruption Bill is in preparation at the Department which it is hoped will be circulated to other Departments during this month. I cannot provide a date on which the legislation will be published.
We will take three final questions on the Order of Business from Deputies Gormley, Bruton and Stagg.
I wish to raise the issue to which Deputy Sargent referred and for which he was unjustly thrown out of the House, namely, the fundraising for charitable and other purposes Bill. As Deputy Sargent tried to make clear, publication of the Bill has been put off on numerous occasions despite the fact that the Costello committee recommended its introduction. There are suspicions charitable status has been granted to certain bodies to which it should not have been given. This matter must be dealt with as soon as possible. Can the Taoiseach give us a commitment here today that this will be given urgent priority?
The Bill is to reform the law in relation to the administration of the regulations, as the Deputy stated, along the lines of the Costello commission report. Work on preparing the general scheme is proceeding in the Department as quickly as possible. I previously raised the views of Deputies but, as it has been pointed out in the House this week, there are an enormous number of Bills in the Justice area.
In regard to the business ordered for today, I understand that the Minister for Health and Children is refusing under the Freedom of Information Act, 1997, to make available the waiting list report in what he calls the public interest. On what concept of the public interest is the Minister acting in refusing to Members of this House and to the public a report on a matter of great public importance on the day on which a debate is taking place on that very matter?
The public interest of Fianna Fáil.
I will explain that when the debate starts.
The Taoiseach talks a great deal about transparency. May we have a little transparency from the Minister for Health and Children?
The question is not really appropriate to the Order of Business.
There is a debate in the House all day today and the Minister has taken the unusual step in an ordinary debate of answering questions for an hour. I am sure that is a good question which he can answer.
Where is the report?
We cannot debate the matter now. There will be an opportunity to pursue the matter during the debate.
I do not think the Taoiseach would want a Minister in his Government to refuse access to information about waiting lists in some concept of the public interest.
The Deputy should read the Act.
The Cabinet must read it.
Surely the Government has a collective view of what is the public interest. What public interest is involved in denying the public access to a report on waiting lists?
We cannot pursue the matter at this stage.
On a point of order, I do not have an implementation role under the Freedom of Information Act, 1997.
With regard to the Electricity Regulation Bill, which is promised legislation, is the Taoiseach aware that the Attorney General recently issued a clear strong statement indicating how limited the powers of regulators can be? Arising from that, will it now be necessary to withdraw the Bill to include in it that opinion of the Attorney General?
Does the Deputy remember the regulator? She has no accountability. That is what happens.
The answer is no. The Bill will be published in two weeks.