Vol. 497 No. 2
1 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the position in relation to the current resources of the National Economic and Social Forum; and the complement of staff negotiated by him with the Department of Finance to deal with the extended mandate which he has proposed for the forum. [24128/98]
2 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the additional staff or resources being made available to the National Economic and Social Forum to allow it to make the development of strategies to tackle long-term unemployment, poverty and social exclusion its main priority, as indicated in his speech on 12 November 1998; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24141/98]
3 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the National Economic and Social Forum. [24478/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.
My speech at the inaugural meeting of the NESF on 12 November 1998 has been laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. In my address I asked the forum to take on a new role in developing policies and programmes to tackle long-term unemployment, poverty and social exclusion. Under its new mandate, the forum has a unique contribution to make in evaluating the effectiveness of policies which are being implemented within the framework of the social partnership agreements and in the national anti-poverty strategy.
The forum's work will be complementary to that which I have asked the NESC to undertake in preparing a new strategy as a basis for social partnership in the next decade and beyond. The Government will rely heavily in the next period on their advice and evaluation of measures which are in place to combat poverty and exclusion and I assured the forum of the Government's continued support in their valuable work.
On the question of staffing, the outgoing forum had completed its work with the publication of its report No. 16, "A Framework for Partnership", in December 1997. Accordingly, the staff whose secondment contracts had expired returned to their parent organisations with the exception of the director who has continued in the meantime. The director has access to the staff of my Department in which he is currently located to support him in his work. Now that the new forum has been given its mandate, approval has recently been given for appointment to an upgraded post of assistant director and a policy analyst and the appointment of an executive secretary.
Both organisations will soon work side by side in a new building which has been acquired for them in South Frederick Street. The Centre for Management and Organisational Development in the Department of Finance has been asked to examine the scope for sharing administrative support services between the NESC and the NESF and to make recommendations on the matter. In the light of this report, which is expected shortly, the administrative staffing for the forum will be finalised.
It is envisaged that the forum's evaluation process will be carried out by project teams constituted from the social partners, relevant Government Departments and agencies and independent experts as appropriate. The team approach will require the information and expertise of public representatives, social partners, and consumers of services at local level to establish the impact of policies and programmes and to identify the scope for policy improvement. To assist the teams it is envisaged that project leaders will be required for assignments to provide special skills and expertise. Project secretaries may also be needed from time to time for particular assignments. These short-term staff may be recruited on contracts or assigned on loan from other agencies and organisations depending on the topics selected by the forum.
I welcome the staff arrangements. I am sure the Taoiseach agrees that it would be impossible for such a body to function with just one member of staff. Is the Taoiseach aware of reports that members of the voluntary sector in the forum are complaining about what they perceive as negativity on the part of the various departmental secretaries who are also members of the forum, and that a dialogue of the deaf seems to be taking place between both sets of members?
I was at the first meeting and I can see there are different perspectives. It will take some time for it to settle down. The departmental secretaries bring with them the short and medium term difficulties they have while the organisations representing the social community pillar want to see active and far more lively responses. The increase in size of the forum is a change and it will take some time for members to come to an understanding of their different perspectives. I hope members will quickly settle down to work jointly on the issues of unemployment, exclusion and poverty which are their agenda items.
Does the Taoiseach envisage the possibility of an economic and social forum of this nature taking on a North-South dimension and involving members of the equivalent organisations from Northern Ireland participating in the work of an all-Ireland forum on such topics? Is that something that might be considered as part of the range of North-South institutions currently under consideration to bring the third sector, as well as the State and private sectors into North-South co-operation?
This issue was raised by some of the community and voluntary pillars in the summer. There is a reference to it which is not well expanded on in the British-Irish Agreement. They have asked that it be expanded. I originally thought it could be represented in the civil forum but as Deputy Bruton said it is envisaged that it be represented as it is here. I cannot recall in what section it is contained in the Agreement but it was pointed out that a North-South group could work on this together. Some people in the Department of Foreign Affairs have co-ordinated an expansion of that section in the document to see how this would work. It is likely we will be able to respond positively to what Deputy Bruton has said.
Will the Taoiseach indicate when he expects the staffing arrangements and the additional staffing provided for the forum to be in place particularly the secretarial back-up which will be necessary if the members of the forum are to carry out their functions? What role will the secretaries general of the various Departments play on the forum? Will they work to an agenda set by Government, their ministerial bosses or act in a purely departmental role, advising on the operations of departmental schemes?
I understand the back-up secretarial staff from my Department are already in place. That may not be the long-term solution. I am not sure if that arrangement will work, having been associated with the department in South Frederick Street. It is not one I am enamoured of. I have asked that that issue be looked at. Some of the posts are being advertised. There is a new executive assistant. Some of the other posts, an assistant director, a policy analyst and a further executive secretary, are in the process of being filled. I hope that by Christmas those posts will be filled.
What is the role of the secretaries general?
I expect everyone will play a constructive part and not merely represent the body from which they came. They should all work on the agenda to deal with the problems. Secretaries general have the benefit of being able to make a positive input to the NESF, because they have been working on these issues and will be able to explain the departmental view. I do not wish them to give merely a departmental view but to have a positive input. The secretaries general have immense experience and knowledge. In working side by side and in collaboration with the community and voluntary pillar they should help to move the agenda forward. Rather than reports going back and forward, they should be able to do that on the spot.
Does the Taoiseach agree that if he does not want the role of the secretaries general to be merely a departmental one, but also a substantial and responsible role, they cannot play that role unless they have a clear political mandate from the Ministers in question? Does the Taoiseach intend to submit guidelines to the NESF on the development of strategies in these areas? In the absence of such guidelines, does he accept the NESF runs the risk of becoming a talking shop? Surely it is the Government's role to lead and the role of the secretaries general to have a mandate which includes a political responsibility that is accountable to this House. It should then be the role of the NESF to flesh out the problems associated with the implementation of such a strategy.
It was for that reason I went to the first meeting, addressed the issues and spelt out my view of the mandate. Deputy Quinn would agree that might have to be said more than once, but I made it clear at the first meeting. I genuinely want people to work on the issues involved, such as unemployment and social exclusion, rather than seeing the obstacles and difficulties involved. I am pleased with the initial response. It took at least nine months to get the NESC and the NESF going because there were difficulties with the representative groups in deciding who should be represented. I have had discussions of this sort a number of times during the year, and I have been assured by people that they will be positive. I take the point that Ministers need to reflect that, and I have said so to my Cabinet colleagues.
The Taoiseach has a lot of experience in Government Departments. An assurance from a secretary general that he or she intends to play a positive role is not worth the paper on which it is written because he or she has a legal responsibility to carry out the instructions of Ministers. Unless secretaries general have a clear political mandate from the Government, what the Taoiseach has said is tantamount to nonsense.
Deputy Quinn also has a fair amount of political knowledge, and he knows that secretaries general play very constructive roles on many boards.
Always on the political instruction of their respective Ministers.
In this case they have been told by their respective Ministers to participate actively in the NESF, as they do in the NESC.
In writing?
Not in writing. They are not schoolchildren. They are eminently qualified and experienced. They know how to play a positive role, or a blocking one if they so wish—
Which is their natural role if they do not have political instructions.
I outlined my position at the meeting.
In relation to Question No. 3, I am thinking of Dublin villages, such as Crumlin, Rialto, Dolphin's Barn, Inchicore, Kilmainham, Terenure and, dare I mention them, Phibsboro, Stoneybatter and Chapelizod. Did the Taoiseach raise with the NESC the need to restore those villages as a millennium project with a view to improving their economies? If he has not raised that matter, will he undertake to do so at his next meeting with the NESC? It is clear the villages of Dublin need major investment and upgrading if they are to be restored to their former glory for the next generation.
That was not within the presentation I made. A large number of Oireachtas Members are part of the NESF and would be able to make their views known. Finding a strategy for the next decade is an interesting concept.
