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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 1 Dec 1998

Vol. 497 No. 5

Estimates, 1998. - Vote 33: Department of Health and Children. (Supplementary).

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £19,549,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment in the year ending 31 December, 1998 for the salaries and expenses of the office of the Minister for Health and Children (including Oifig an ArdChláraitheora), and certain services administered by that office, including grants to health boards and miscellaneous grants.

I am pleased to have this opportunity to bring the Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Health and Children before the House. The gross additional requirement is for £90,049,000. This figure is partially offset by additional appropriations-in-aid of £70.5 million which gives a net figure of £19.549 million required by way of Supplementary Estimate.

When I spoke in the House last week, I set out the basis on which the Government wishes to develop and progress the provision of health services. Progress continues to be made on achieving the priority objectives of both the health strategy and the Programme for Government. Moving this Estimate underpins the Government's commitment to moving forward with this strategy.

Last week I met the health boards and the major voluntary hospitals to outline to them my approach to service provision, development, funding and accountability. Last year, when I agreed the non-capital funding for the 1998 health services with the Minister for Finance, it was on the understanding that agencies would be strictly limited to this level of funding.

Will the Minister give way?

Will the Estimate encompass the Tallaght hospital and has the Minister received the Deloitte & Touche report?

It is rather early in the Minister's contribution for an intervention of that nature.

It would be helpful if Members had a copy of the speech.

Service plans were to reflect appropriate service delivery within this agreed funding. While the 1998 funding reflected a significant increase, it was clear to those managing the services that strict control would be required to achieve this objective. Despite this significant additional supplementary funding, I continue to require agencies to achieve delivery of service plans as agreed.

However, I agreed with the Minister for Finance that certain items, where individuals have a statutory right to recoupment of expenditure outlined and in respect of certain pay related issues, would be treated in a special way. This arrangement does not invalidate the requirement to deliver on the service plan as required by the Health (Amendment) (No. 3) Act.

The major element of this Supplementary Estimate is in respect of these special issues. There are other elements of this demand, although small, which relate to health safety issues and funding for once-of relief for deserving sectors of our services in line with initiatives taken by Government last year.

During 1998 I sought to ensure that available resources are distributed as objectively as possible, consistent with real needs and have not allowed the agenda to be dominated by those who are best placed to make the loudest noises about their needs. The Irish health service has been acknowledged by the OECD as an efficient, well organised service. The service plans produced annually by each agency are evidence of this.

The additional moneys sought in this Supplementary Estimate are necessary to fund adequately a number of items within the health service which have given rise to additional expenditure which was unforeseen or could not be computed accurately when the original Estimate was passed by the House. The document circulated to Deputies gives the background to this Supplementary Estimate.

I intend to cover a number of the main areas but I cannot, within the time at my disposal, go through all issues in much detail. Broadly, the items in the Supplementary Estimate are items where there is an inevitable degree of uncertainty in forecasting the actual costs in any one year and, consequently, the original Estimates did not provide fully for these costs.

On a point of order, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, it is simply impossible for Members of the Opposition to engage in this debate without having a copy of the Supplementary Estimate. The Chief Whip promised that a copy would be circulated prior to the debate.

The Chair has no responsibility for the circulation of such material.

It is an unacceptable way of doing business. Members of the Opposition are at a serious disadvantage without a copy of the Supplementary Estimate to which the Minister is referring.

That is not a point of order.

It is impossible to do business if it is to be conducted on that basis.

However, it is not a point of order. The Chair is obliged to implement the Standing Orders and that is not an appropriate point of order.

The Minister said this information is being circulated but it is not. If the Chair is not responsible, perhaps the Minister can assist. Should we wait until the information is brought to the House so we can do our business properly?

This is a limited debate and I am sure Members are anxious to contribute.

Given that it is a limited debate, it is unacceptable that the Minister would treat Members in this manner. We do not have a copy of the Supplementary Estimate. In fairness to all Members, I ask the Chair to suspend the sitting until it is circulated.

The Supplementary Estimate is being circulated now.

On a further point of order — I do not wish to take up the Minister's time and I have no objection to him taking an additional two or three minutes to speak — we now have the Supplementary Estimate but we do not have a copy of the Minister's speech. It is unprecedented in my 18 years in the House that a speech about additional expenditure of £20 million should not be available to Members. It is indicative of the disorganisation within the Minister's Department.

I apologise for the delay in circulating the script and the Supplementary Estimate. There was a technical problem in the Department of which I was unaware until just before I came into the House. The script will be available soon. It is not a matter over which I have direct control and its non-availability is not my fault.

The agreed practice has been to seek supplementary funding in these areas when the amount needed becomes apparent during the year. The items recognised by the Department of Finance as falling within this category are medical indemnity insurance, superannuation costs, PRSI costs and demand led schemes, which consist of the community drugs schemes and certain capitation payments such as the domiciliary care allowance. Expenditure on these items is influenced by a number of factors which are difficult to predict in advance.

Expenditure on the community drug schemes is a factor of the number and cost of claims under these schemes which, again, is difficult to predict in advance. There is a statutory right to relief for expenditure on prescribed drugs and medicines in excess of the expenditure thresholds which are laid down.

There is an additional requirement for £30 million in respect of these schemes. Some £9 million of this refers to a shortfall in expenditure in 1997 and £21 million is related to additional expenditure on these schemes in 1998.

The increase in expenditure under the community drugs scheme arises in the main from an increase in the number of persons claiming under these schemes and also an increase in the cost of medicines due to the prescribing of newer, more expensive drugs which has been a feature of prescribing trends in recent years. Developments in drug therapies throughout the developed world has increased pressure on the State to fund such therapies. Arising from these developments, many patients can now be treated in their homes rather than on an institutional basis, life expectancy for others has been increased and drugs have been developed which can give comfort and improve quality of life where no such improvement was previously thought possible.

Drugs for the treatment of peptic ulcer disease, for example, figure prominently in the list of drugs of significant cost both in the GMS and the community drugs schemes, as do drugs for the treatment of asthma and cardiovascular disease. Substitution of newer and, in almost all instances, more expensive forms of medication for older treatments is, therefore, a significant contributory factor in increasing expenditure on drugs and medicines.

I turn now to changes I am proposing in the community drugs schemes with effect from 1 March next. First, the existing drugs cost subsidisation and drugs refund schemes will be merged into one new drugs payments scheme with a threshold of £42 per month per family unit. Second, a common drugs-medicines list for all schemes will be introduced. This list will essentially be the current list of items reimbursable under the general medical services scheme. Third, in tandem with these changes, a common prescription form for all schemes will be introduced. The primary aim of the new drugs payment scheme is to bring about important improvements and equity in the existing schemes.

The new family scheme will have significant advantages over the existing drugs refund scheme. Under the drugs refund scheme, families pay the full cost of their prescription medicines and may, at the end of the quarter, claim reimbursement from their health board, of expenditure over £90 in that calendar quarter. Many families have heavy expenditure on drugs and medicines in a quarter and have to wait a further six weeks from the end of that quarter before they receive a refund. In effect, they may have to wait up to four and a half months and be incurring expenditure in the next quarter before they receive a refund. In 1997 more than 110,000 claims under the drugs refund scheme were in excess of £150 per quarter. Of these approximately 33,000 were for £300 or more per quarter or almost £80 per month. This can cause considerable cashflow problems for a significant number of families. This will not happen under the new drugs payment scheme. From 1 March next no individual or family will have to pay more than £42 per month for prescribed medicines. It means that, for the first time, families will be able to budget for the cost of medicines. Families will know that, whatever the size of their drugs bill, whatever unexpected illness might befall them, they will not have to pay more than £42 per month. There are families where, although one member may qualify for a drug cost subsidisation scheme card, combined expenditure on medicines by other members, which can be considerable, cannot be recouped until the end of the quarter. With the new drugs payment scheme, no family will have to pay more than £42 in any month for prescribed medicines. The new scheme will be of significant benefit to such families.

That the drugs payment scheme will operate on a monthly basis has distinct advantages over the drugs refund scheme. Under the refund scheme, a family could, for example, in one month have expenditure of, say, £80 but no expenditure in the other two months. They would have not have been entitled to a refund. Under the new scheme, they will have to pay only £42 in that month.

The new drugs payment scheme is for everyone. To qualify under the old drug cost subsidisation scheme, patients had to be certified by their doctor as suffering from a condition requiring ongoing expenditure on medicines in excess of £32 per month. There are no qualifying criteria for the new scheme. Where expenditure by a family exceeds £42 per month, the balance will be met by the State.

There has been no increase in the threshold for existing schemes since 1991. It must also be borne in mind that the new threshold refers to family expenditure as opposed to the existing threshold in the drug cost subsidisation scheme which relates to individual expenditure. The introduction of the common medicines list will ensure equity between the general medical services and the new drugs payment scheme in relation to the range of medicines paid for by the State under both schemes. It will not remove any essential prescribed medicines from the schemes. The comprehensive range of the most modern therapies required to treat all conditions, which is available on the GMS, will continue to be paid for under the new scheme. What is being removed is a range of over the counter preparations that do not need a prescription from a doctor and are available in many instances in supermarkets and other retail outlets. Examples of such products are some simple analgesics such as panadol, disprin, solpadeine, neurofen; vitamin supplements such as rubex, vivioptal, seven seas, royal jelly; and products for the treatment of baldness such as Regaine. A range of analgesics is available on the GMS and these will continue to be paid for under both schemes. It is seriously inequitable that the cost of these products is reimbursed to patients who may have significant means, whereas those with medical cards who constitute some of the least well off in society have to pay for them. The introduction of a common prescription form is necessary to close the accountability chain between the prescriber, the dispenser and the end user.

Increases in PRSI costs are related to the growth in the number of new entrants to the health services and the replacement of the old D rate with the new A rate. Modified social insurance status does not apply to workers recruited into the public service after 6 April 1995.

The additional superannuation costs for which funding is sought are due to the age profile of personnel in the health sector. Agencies are experiencing an increasing number of retirements, including those opting for early retirement, and a consequent increase in the yearly budget provision is required. A sum of £9 million in additional funding is required.

An additional £500,000 is being provided to cover costs arising from the tribunal of inquiry into the BTSB and certain other legal fees. The tribunal of inquiry costs are in respect of the legal costs of parties, associations and witnesses who were granted full or limited representation before the tribunal including, in some cases, the cost of judicial reviews.

To date the compensation tribunal has made 1,042 awards. The total amount of the awards made to date is £147 million. A claimant to whom an award is made is entitled to the legal costs and expenses associated with the claim. The average legal costs per claim amount to £22,000. A sum of £85 million was provided in the original Vote in 1998 in respect of payments from the special account established under section 10 of the Hepatitis C Compensation Act, 1997, and £15 million in respect of payments from the reparation fund. A further sum of £4 million is being made available this year for payments from the special account established under section 10.

Another important area which is being addressed in the Supplementary Estimate is child care. The Supplementary Estimate includes provision for a sum of £1.625 million to defray the 1998 costs of a number of pilot projects which have been set up under the young people at risk programme established by the Government in January. This initiative is being overseen by the Cabinet sub-committee on social inclusion. This funding is to be used for 12 family support projects, spread throughout the eight health board regions.

The objective of the projects is to prevent at risk children and young people from engaging in various forms of anti-social behaviour by providing a pro-active response to the children and their families. There are two key elements to this approach: the establishment of formal collaborative structures involving relevant State agencies, the voluntary sector and the local community; and the identification or establishment of a local centre which will act as a focal point for the delivery of services to young people and children. These pilot projects meet a need identified in Partnership 2000 in regard to tackling social exclusion. I have no doubt these projects will make a significant contribution and I am pleased there will be a formal evaluation of them. This will allow us, in time, to assess the effectiveness of the projects and to identify best practice in this area.

The process of tackling the so-called Millennium bug is proceeding apace in health agencies and it is essential that the necessary remedial work is completed on time. The overall project is turning out to be quite significant. A sum of £5 million was originally earmarked for this in 1988 from my Department's capital budget, based on the best estimates made late last year. This sum has proven insufficient and, although additional moneys have already been diverted to the year 2000 problem, at the expense of other developments in the technology area, there is still a need for this further expenditure of £1 million in 1998 to ensure the projects in health agencies proceed unhindered. My Department is assembling a final estimate of the costs of dealing with the Millennium bug and the total figure is expected to be significant.

The Government has also agreed to provide a package of funding to meet pressing needs in relation to new technologies to further improve the safety of the blood supply. The BTSB is introducing these new technologies to ensure it meets the best international standards.

One of the most pressing needs for people with physical and sensory disabilities is aids and appliances. These include essential items such as artificial limbs and wheelchairs. Waiting lists in this area can be a cause of great hardship for those affected. For this reason, substantial additional funding to alleviate this hardship. has been provided by the Government since it took office. At the end of last year grants totalling £4.325 million were given to voluntary agencies providing services in this sector for aids, appliances and equipment for people with physical and sensory disabilities. A further £1 million was made available to health boards this year for the same purpose.

In spite of this substantial investment, it has been brought to my attention that health boards still have substantial waiting lists for aids and appliances. I am determined to deal with this issue and I am making a further grant of £4 million available to health boards this year. This will help eliminate those waiting lists and provide some additional funding for much needed equipment such as wheelchair accessible transport to enable more people with disabilities to access services.

A sum of £22.924 million is being sought to cover the cost to the health service in 1998 of the settlements in June and September with craftworkers and non-nursing personnel, respectively. This sum includes retrospection. These settlements, which also relate to local authority craftworkers and general operatives, were concluded under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission and represent a significant advance in flexibility and productivity which will translate into gains in efficiency and cost-effectiveness in health agencies.

The original estimate of the cost of implementing the recommendations of the review body on higher remuneration in the public sector was made when the review body's report No. 36 was published in December 1996. By the time the revised contract, based on the review body's recommendations, was introduced in 1998 a number of factors pointed to a review of this estimate. The number of hospital consultants had increased from 1,100 to 1,300. There was also a need for greater provision for locum cover and rest days. The new contract is significantly different in several respects from its predecessor and a more precise estimate of its ultimate cost can only be made on full implementation. This heading will cost an additional £10 million in 1998.

The original Estimate provided for the Department for 1998 included receipts of £239 million from health contributions. It is now estimated that health contributions will contribute £282.5 million to the Department, an increase of £43.5 million. It is normal practice that the Department of Finance calculates the original estimate of receipts due from this source when preparing its estimate of health needs. A combination of the increased numbers in employment and pay rises have led to this significant amount being available.

It is expected that receipts of £90 million will be received in 1998 under EU regulations on the social security of migrant workers. This is against a projected £63 million. The additional £27 million is being put towards the delivery of health services in 1998. Taking health contributions and receipts under EU regulations together, there is an additional income of £70.5 million in excess of that contained in my Department's original Estimate.

This Supplementary Estimate will add further to overall health expenditure and a budget day package to be announced tomorrow in regard to key areas of the services will add even further funding. These figures clearly illustrate that we have ensured more than adequate resources are being applied to the health programmes. The increases already announced for 1999 over 1998 for non-capital expenditure and the increase for 1999 over the expected outturn for 1998 represents a figure of 9.5 per cent. This figure will be further increases by the additional funding in tomorrow's budget. It gives the lie to critics who have claimed that our health services are being under-funded.

Since becoming Minister I have been conscious of the challenges which are faced in managing a system as complex and dynamic as the health services. Perhaps more than any other sector of the public services, health is influenced by constant technological innovation and new methods of service delivery. There are undoubted benefits attaching to such developments but they are almost always invariably very costly. The Supplementary Estimate before the House illustrates this point clearly.

This Supplementary Estimate will greatly assist health agencies in meeting the additional costs they are experiencing and in addressing the need for immediate investment in key service areas. The funding being sought shows the real commitment of the Government to adequately fund the health service and accordingly I recommend the Supplementary Estimate to the House for its approval.

I am completely dissatisfied with the manner in which Members of the House have been treated. We have not yet received copies of the Minister's script. That is a completely inappropriate way to deal with a Health Estimate. It is unfair to Opposition Deputies that matters are proceeding in this way. I hope it is not a manner in which the Minister intends to deal with the House in the future.

I listened with interest to the Minister's contribution on the Supplementary Estimate, which has undergone an extraordinary metamorphosis. Three weeks ago the Government Estimates were published. It was indicated that a portion of the substantial windfall from the health levy would be spent by the Department of Health and Children while the remainder would be retained in the Government's coffers. Arguments took place in the House and outside regarding the apparent retention by the Government of a sum estimated to be in excess of £32.5 million at time when hospital waiting lists are growing and when the Government itself has failed to meet its commitments to those with mental, physical and sensory handicaps in the context of commitments previously given and recommendations made in a variety of reports which are supported by Members on all sides.

Following those arguments, two weeks ago the Minister distributed to Members of the Opposition a proposed Supplementary Estimate which it was requested should be taken in the House without debate. That Supplementary Estimate envisaged diverting a large portion of the windfall from the health levy into a superannuation fund and provided for the allocation of an additional £5.5 million in respect of health services. Two weeks ago the Minister for Health and Children wanted the House to endorse, without debate, a Supplementary Estimate of £5.5 million. That figure has grown to £19 million in the intervening period.

I welcome the fact that the funding which will be made available under the Supplementary Estimate has increased in respect of a number of areas, particularly in the context of the motion which will come before the House for debate this evening seeking to force the Government to meet not only its capital but also its revenue commitments to people suffering from disabilities. We have forced the Government, in the context of this Supplementary Estimate, to make additional allocations. The Supplementary Estimate published two weeks ago contained no additional moneys for the purchase of aids, appliances and other equipment for people with physical and sensory disabilities. The Supplementary Estimate now before us does precisely that. This proves that if Opposition parties can work in co-operation with each other to meet and address the needs of people whose needs are not being properly addressed and whose difficulties are not being provided for properly, we can force the Government to alter its priorities and change tack.

I will not condemn the Minister for introducing this Supplementary Estimate and for changing his mind on two occasions during the past four weeks. I merely wish to point out that when the

Minister refers to the ordered financing of the Department of Health and Children and its long and medium—term planning in meeting health needs that does not reflect the reality of the manner in which he is dealing with his responsibilities in this House.

On a number of occasions during his contribution the Minister stated, in the context of the Supplementary Estimate and a number of other issues, that expenditure on certain items is difficult to predict. He also stated, in another context in respect of another area, that inevitable difficulties in calculating expenditure arise. However, it is extraordinary and scandalous that there is one area in respect of which the Minister is not willing to admit that inevitable difficulties in calculating required expenditure arise and in respect of which he is not willing to accept that, 12 months in advance, there are difficulties with regard to determining the needs of the men, women and children throughout the country who are dependent on the GMS, who require in-patient hospital treatment and who, having consulted their general practitioners and consultants, are discovered to be in need of a variety of different procedures to address a range of illnesses, some of which are life threatening, others of which are severely debilitating and diminish people's quality of life. It is extraordinary that the Minister made no reference to the in-patient hospital waiting lists. It is amazing that he did not believe this matter required readjustment in the context of the Supplementary Estimate.

The waiting list figures have now become available, though I stress that these are not the figures an efficient Department should be in a position to make available . By 1 December, through the use of modern communications mechanisms, we should be able to gain access to the waiting list figures for 30 November. Today, we have available to us the waiting list figures for 30 September. They show that from June to September, a period of three months, the numbers on the waiting lists grew by over 1,000. There are now 35,405 people on the in-patient hospital waiting list as opposed to the 34,331 people who were on it at the end of June. That represents an increase of 1,100 during a three month period. I stated previously that the numbers of those on the waiting lists will approach 38,000 by the end of the year.

In the context of the 16,000 bed days being lost in December and also those lost in October and November by hospitals which have been obliged to implement cut-backs and cancel operations, it is inevitable that, when the waiting lists for the end of December become available — presumably in April — we will discover that the waiting list crisis is even worse than these figures show. In the context of the Minister being able to find, over a period of two weeks, an additional £14 million for inclusion in the Supplementary Estimate and of his knowing that 16,000 bed days will be lost in December, it would have been possible for him, with proper planning in his Department, to have allocated additional funding to particular hospitals to avoid bed and theatre closures in December.

The figures are interesting. The numbers on waiting lists at some of the hospitals which have been in the news grew between June and September. The number on the waiting list at University College Hospital, Galway, where a theatre will remain closed during December despite the best efforts of staff, grew from 2,891 to 3,517. The number on the waiting list at Tullamore General Hospital, where the number of beds available will be reduced from 5 December, grew from 1,737 to 1,995.

It is irrational and inefficient financially to reduce the numbers of beds available in December and to announce in the budget a waiting list initiative to apply from January to target particular specialties or hospitals to reduce the numbers on waiting lists. Patients awaiting essential cardiac, orthopaedic or ear, nose and throat surgery should not have to suffer in this way. This is an inhumane way of running the health service. There is a failure to take into account the impact on quality of life of health difficulties being experienced by those awaiting in-patient hospital care and the pressure that relations are under in caring for them. Children have to miss school because relatively straightforward and simple ear, nose and throat procedures cannot be performed within a reasonable period.

The Minister referred to those who make loud noises and have a vested interest. He appears to believe that he is engaged in trench warfare with the medical profession. The people with whom he is engaged in trench warfare are ordinary men, women and children dependent on the General Medical Service awaiting admission to acute hospitals for essential treatment. They are the people to whom he is saying this Christmas "tough, we do not care about you". Although he is willing to be flexible across a range of areas, when it comes to those awaiting in-patient hospital care he is not prepared during the course of the year to reassess requirements in particular areas and allocate additional funds. That is not the way to run a health service in a country awash with money, to which many thousands have returned and in which there has been a huge increase in the workforce.

This is a problem that every Deputy experiences in his or her day-to-day contact with constituents on hospital waiting lists. Most Members are insured with the VHI or BUPA and have ready access to hospital care. It is wrong that we should tolerate a two-tier in-patient hospital system which guarantees immediate access to those who can afford to pay. This is not good enough.

There is dramatic growth in the number awaiting in-patient gynaecological treatment. In three months the number grew from 2,545 to 2,746. There is the extraordinary number of 3,734 awaiting breast screening. There are 1,719 on the waiting list in the Eastern Health Board area, some of whom will have to wait over 12 months for a mammograph. This is not good enough at a time when the economy is booming. It appears that the health problems of a section of the community are considered less important than the health problems of the wealthy. That is not a system of health care over which we should stand.

The Minister has announced that an additional £4 million will be made available to health boards for the provision of appliances, aids and other equipments for people with physical and sensory disabilities. Additional moneys will also be made available to other health agencies for similar purposes. The Minister should clarify the amount involved and the agencies to which the additional funds will be made available.

It is extraordinary that the Minister could not have planned this expenditure better. Is he seriously suggesting that in the final three or four weeks of the year health boards will be in a position to spend £4 million to provide new appliances and equipment for people with a disability? Will this money be placed in a trust fund? When will it be spent? When will those on waiting lists for a variety of equipment benefit?

The Minister referred to the new drug payment scheme. While some families will benefit, others will not. Currently a family member in need of regular medication may recoup expenditure above the figure of £90 in a three month period. If that family member finds that in any one month their expenditure falls before £42, they will recoup nothing. That person on prescribed medication, when the Minister introduces this scheme to recoup moneys, will have to expend in excess of £126 in a three month period on medication instead of £90, as provided for at present. That will lead to some families already in financial difficulty experiencing additional difficulty.

I understand the Minister is trying to put in place a scheme which will benefit some families and reform current schemes. However, he should revise his proposal. Individual patients who over a three month period are currently entitled to reclaim upwards of £36 will be excluded from this scheme. In effect, the Minister, at a time when the country is awash with money and the Government is about to introduce tax cuts tomorrow, is proposing to introduce health cuts on the drug refund scheme, through the back door — health cuts as they apply to some families.

I accept that selectively other families may benefit from this scheme. Some families and individuals who currently can reclaim any moneys in excess of £90 spent on prescriptive medicines over a three month period will now be unable to reclaim any moneys over a three month period unless they spend in excess of £126. That is not a reform, it is taking money away from people who require regular medication.

I will conclude by referring to the year 2000 problem. When I raised the matter earlier this year, the Minister reassured Members that all of the problems in the medical service, in his Department, hospitals and health agencies, were being monitored and addressed and they would not exist in 2000. It seems the Minister is now moderating his language on that issue and hedging his bets. It is a vital health issue and the Minister's duty to ensure that all hospital equipment and all health agencies utilising essential equipment are year 2000 compliant. I hope as we enter the new millennium the Minister will be able to give the House a categorical assurance that no patients will be at risk from computer failures in any of our health agencies or hospitals.

I wish to express my dissatisfaction with the manner in which Members of the Opposition have been treated in this debate. We were not provided with a copy of the Estimate prior to the start of the debate, as we were promised. The Minister had finished his speech ten minutes before a copy was circulated. This makes it difficult for the Opposition to respond to announcements made by the Minister. I would like an undertaking from him that the same type of cock-up will not recur in a health debate.

The Supplementary Estimate before us is a housekeeping one at the end of the year and is somewhat unremarkable. However, the difficulty is that we are in a remarkable situation at the moment, with a growing crisis across the health service. We have a similarly remarkable situation today where the Government announced a £1.3 billion surplus. We have a unique opportunity to do something significant about the crisis in our health service and to provide the necessary funding to alleviate the enormous hardship which a huge percentage of our population is enduring because of the underfunding of our health service. It is regretted by all Members, in Opposition and Government, who are well aware of the difficulties in the health service, that the Minister has not availed of this opportunity to provide an additional injection of funding where it is greatly needed.

I was surprised when I saw the draft Estimate today and compared it to the one circulated two weeks ago. In the space of two weeks, the Minister has managed to come up with an additional £14 million. I ask him to provide greater clarification on exactly where that additional money will be spent and why it was not deemed necessary two weeks ago.

I was also surprised that pilot projects for children at risk are included in this Estimate. I understood that initiative was to be funded from the young people's services and facilities fund. Perhaps the Minister will clarify whether this fund is being part — funded by his Department and who is funding the rest of it. I would like to comment on that initiative.

As has been mentioned on several occasions in this House, our child care services are in crisis. In fairness to the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, this crisis was recognised at an early stage. He said there was a need to spend £100 million on our child care services immediately, not on a phased basis as he is saying now. Eighty per cent of funding is being spent on the welfare and protection services and the area of prevention is grossly underfunded.

Suddenly we heard an announcement about 12 family support projects. I attended the launch of that initiative in my capacity as chairperson of the Eastern Health Board and being somewhat surprised that this had appeared out of nowhere. It seemed to be a smokescreen for the fact that the services were so utterly underfunded. The announcement was made with a great deal of publicity and the involvement of the Taoiseach. Yet, when I spoke to some senior health board officials on the day of the launch, no-one seemed to know what was envisaged. It was an idea which seemed to have been cooked up overnight without being explained to anyone involved. It had not been thought out fully, although the theory might have been all right. The Minister must accept that at this point we need something far more comprehensive than pilot projects. The child care service is in such an appalling state that pilot projects only scrape the surface. We need a proper strategy to put sufficient funding in place.

I was also surprised to hear the locations of those 12 family support projects. By any yardstick, it is accepted by anyone working in the field that the highest concentration of child welfare problems is in the Dublin area, followed by the other main urban centres. Child care is the biggest issue in the Eastern Health Board. However, when the locations of the projects were announced, two were in the Eastern Health Board area, only one of which was in the Dublin region, in Cherry Orchard.

As somebody who represents the northside of Dublin, I am very aware of the huge child care problems which exist in many of the communities across the northside. I was flabbergasted at the complete exclusion of the northside and the fact that there was only one project on the other side of the city. Perhaps the Minister, given that we are meant to agree this expenditure today, will give some justification for the location of those pilot projects. I do not know if it is a coincidence, but it seems that most of the locations are based in the constituencies of various Cabinet Ministers. If this is the Minister's approach to child care, it leaves a lot to be desired. If he is basing it on trying to give as many goodies to as many Ministers as possible, he has lost the whole point of it. If we have learnt anything over recent years it is that we must prioritise spending and put funding into the areas which are in greatest need. I strongly object to the fact that these child care projects would seem to have been selected purely on political grounds, without any reference to where they were most needed. It was quite a cynical exercise.

I hope the Minister does not think he can fob off the Opposition with additional money for appliances when of course the real need for people with physical and sensory disability is to provide ongoing Revenue funding year on year, as outlined in the recent reports in that area.

I want to comment briefly on the announcement which the Minister made in relation to the community drugs. While there is no doubt that some families will gain in a particular month in which there are high medical expenses, the point has already been made by Deputy Shatter that many people who have ongoing high medical expenses will lose out. Where previously they could have claimed anything over £90 per quarter, it will now be amounts in excess of £126 per quarter. The bills of people who are on the long-term illness scheme, where they currently pay the first £32 per month and everything above that is covered, will be increased from £32 to £42 per month. The Minister might think that £10 is not a great deal of money but one must bear in mind the kind of people who usually qualify for the long-term illness scheme. These are often elderly people who have chronic conditions and who may have an occupational pension which takes them above the already low income limit for medical card entitlement. Those people will now find themselves having to spend an additional £10 per month.

It is important to bear in mind what £10 means to somebody in that situation. It may not mean a great deal to those of us in this House. However, £10 per month in additional health expenditure for those people represents half of the increase which they received in social welfare pensions last year — there was an increase of £5 per week. We are talking about taking back half of that increase by way of additional health expenditure. In a time of plenty, it is unfair, bearing in mind that it is people on low incomes and by and large elderly people who suffer from illnesses who are caught in this situation. The Minister will further penalise them by imposing an additional charge.

My party and I are opposing this Estimate on the grounds that it is insufficient. It does not go far enough. It is a housekeeping Estimate with a few little extras thrown in. The Minister should avail of this time of plenty and the huge additional money which is in the Government's coffers to deal with many of the outstanding problems in the health services.

In his speech the Minister stated that last week he met with the chief executive officers of health boards and the voluntary hospitals to outline his approach to service provision, accountability and funding. Perhaps he would enlighten Members of this House as to his approach. It is difficult to know his approach given the fact that he has been sitting on the report of the Review Group on Waiting Lists since the middle of August. He has refused on a number of occasions to publish that document or make it available to Opposition Members. Perhaps he would use this opportunity to outline his approach.

Time and time again over recent months when serious difficulties were coming to light in the health services the Minister referred to the accountability legislation. I am not suggesting that the approach he should take is to bail out any health board or hospital. Of course there must be accountability and health agencies must keep within budget. However, I would maintain that the original allocation of the Minister is grossly inadequate. It is not enough to meet the present health demands. It is certainly not enough given the buoyancy in the economy. One could spend ten times or 100 times the current budget on health services without too much difficulty but we as a nation must decide the level of health services which we can afford.

This is why earlier in the year I suggested that the Minister look at the possibility of linking health expenditure to GDP. We are now in a situation where expenditure on health is the fourth lowest in the EU. There are two separate arguments. One is that there must be accountability and people must live within budgets, but the more fundamental argument concerns the level of health service we can afford. Given the economic buoyancy, we can afford a far greater level of health service and a far better quality health service. If we do not ensure that people are given access to adequate health care at this time of plenty, when will we ever do it? No doubt there will be hard times ahead. If we are not able to look after the weakest members of society when there is money to spare, we will never look after them. It is unacceptable in a so-called civilised society that we should have large numbers of people in the public health service who are being failed by the service. They are waiting and waiting and larger numbers of them are enduring ongoing suffering during that waiting period. Regrettably, many of them die while waiting. Yet again I call on the Minister to publish the report of the review group.

With regard to the waiting lists, the Minister does not seem to be expecting productivity from the health agencies. He is expecting them to keep within budget but he does not seem to link funding to productivity. Therefore, if a health board or a hospital is cost effective, meets all of its targets, is extremely productive and carries out more operations than it should, it does not get any credit for that in terms of funding. If they have completed all their operations by October, it is too bad; they must cut back and they cannot do any more work until the end of the year. That is a fundamental problem with the Minister's approach. There is no reward in the system for agencies which are productive and cost effective and of course we should be trying to encourage that. One of my concerns is that money which has been provided for the waiting list initiative seems to have been spent with no strings attached.

We still find ourselves in the situation where we do not know the cost of different operations in different hospitals. What value for money did the Minister get from the waiting list initiative? Does he know? Can he state specifically what operations were done? Was the Mater Hospital better value than St. James's Hospital? Does he know which hospital is the most cost effective? Unless he knows these answers he will continue in a situation where money is vanishing into a black hole.

The response to date on child care services, to which I referred earlier, has been completely inadequate. We need to invest substantial amounts of money in improving the services, in putting in place the kind of prevention services which will stop problems arising later in life. On a regular basis in my constituency clinic I see instances where a small amount of spending on family support work would head off problems which that family without that support will undoubtedly encounter in years to come. Instead of doing that, it seems all the money is going into child welfare services, and we have no choice but to spend in that area. It draws attention to the fact that so much more funding is needed in that area. It would make much financial sense to put the investment into the area of child and family support to ensure children can stay on in school, stay living with their families, can be kept out of care and be given an equal opportunity in life — a chance to live a full life. Regrettably, too many of our children do not have that chance.

The transfer of funds from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the Department of Health and Children would make much sense. That principle of prevention does not seem to have been accepted at a senior level in either the Department of Health and Children or the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Money spent during the early years in providing support to young people will be repaid many times over in terms of savings to the Exchequer in later years.

Equally, there is a serious crisis in relation to services for the elderly. There are currently 500 elderly people taking up acute hospital beds, receiving care which is completely inappropriate and who are in need of nursing home care. In addition, we do not know the countless numbers of elderly people at home waiting for care. The thrust of the approach to providing funding for nursing homes seems to be to free up hospital beds. That is a very important element and more hospital beds would have been freed up by now if the Minister had acted when he should have done earlier in the year. They would have been provided on a much more cost effective basis. Serious attention must be paid to the countless number of elderly people living in very difficult situations at home, with in-laws or others, and who need long-term care. That is an area which needs a serious injection of money.

I refer to the young chronic sick. I have a constituent with multiple sclerosis who cannot do anything for herself and who has an 11 year old daughter. She is number 45 on a waiting list for one of the Eastern Health Board units for the young chronic sick and has been told that usually two beds per year become available because of the nature of the patients. That is simply not acceptable in a civilised society. We need to provide appropriate levels of care to those who desperately need it.

We oppose the Supplementary Estimate because the Minister has an opportunity to do something significant about the health services — the money is there and there is no excuse. Because the Minister is not taking the opportunity to do something this year, we cannot accept a promise tomorrow of something maybe next year — it is not enough.

I attended the Whips meetings at which it was agreed this Supplementary Estimate would be taken. I recall the Government Whip indicated that we could not take it last week, as we suggested, but that it would have to be taken this week. I note that during that time the additional money found has gone up by £11 million. Had we deferred this Supplementary Estimate to next week, would there have been even more money in the kitty? It seems remarkable that additional money can be magicked out of nowhere to meet costs which I am sure are valid but which, if shown to the public, invariably would bring about the response that if it is possible for the Minister to pay bills and meet the shortfall in his Estimate, why in God's name can he not accept there are difficulties in forecasting at hospital level as well? People find they cannot have procedures and operations which they desperately need because the Minister is taking a hard line for others and yet is able to magic money from nowhere to balance the books for himself.

I recognise the waiting list issue is one which may not be solved simply but requires a response which is real, serious and committed. At the moment we do not have that but the same old secrecy for which this Minister is well known — inexplicably withholding information which would be an important part of finding a solution to deal with waiting lists. Resources are being wasted and beds are being closed at a time when they should be kept open. That is something which is inexplicable to the public. Why are we wasting resources? Why do we have the type of systems failure which is not being addressed by this Minister? I accept his point that structural changes are required.

I was given an example today of a public patient — this would not have happened had he been a private one — who went twice to one of the major acute hospitals in Dublin city and was seen by a very junior doctor who was clearly out of his depth. The poor man was sent home twice although he had lumps on his back and was suffering considerable pain. That man was not attended to by a properly qualified person at consultant level. When he finally went, after I imagine considerable cost to the State and himself, to another hospital, he was diagnosed correctly and although he may have been incurable anyway, the poor man died. That is the type of wastage which occurs in our acute hospital system because the right people are not seeing the patients, that is, suitably qualified specialists at senior enough level to make decisions and the diagnosis required. The Minister, by lobbing this issue into a forum on manpower, is ducking the issue instead of dealing with it.

I would like to comment on the drugs refund scheme and drugs cost subsidisation scheme. Thanks are due to the medical journalist who was able to discover this issue ahead of time because I do not know when the Minister might have announced this otherwise. He probably would have waited as he did last year to announce hospital cost increases when the budget was being announced so that people did not realise what was doing on. He had the grace to come in and indicate to us that the journalist was right and that these costs will go up for people in relation to both of the drugs schemes.

The community drugs schemes are a very good investment and keep people out of hospitals and in work. They are productive and enabled to contribute instead of being dependent. Let us not fool ourselves that somehow this is an insatiable demand. This is good investment and it has a return. That is an important point. According to the Minister's figures, there have been 110,000 claims. That is an enormous number of people and some will benefit.

A friend of mine was a postman but had to leave his job because he had a cardiac condition. He will never be better and will have to stay on medication which costs him £100 per month. He is on the community drugs scheme which costs him £32 per month. Under the Minister's scheme, no matter how he puts it, that man will pay £42. Is that not correct?

When does he get his money back under the present scheme?

I appreciate that streamlining the system is a good idea.

He has to find £90 for four months in a row.

The specific scheme this man is on means that he contributes £90 over three months. There may be delays as regards payment and I accept that streamlining the system and making it more efficient is a wonderful idea and that there should be one scheme only. I have no problem with that but let us not dress it up as something other than it is. What it is for thousands of people if the Minister's figure may be referred to——

They are not affected.

It will affect those on a ceiling of £32 per month. There is no way around that. I know speeches are dressed up to give the most positive spin on things. The people who will be affected by this are those just above the medical card limit, which is low. Most people on drug schemes are on medication for a long time. The ceiling has been increased from £32 in one scheme and £90 over three months in another scheme to £42 per month. That money must be taken out of people's pockets to pay for medication for conditions such as arthritis, cancer, cardiovascular disease, asthma or psychiatric disorders. We are talking about vulnerable people who should not be caught in the trap Deputy Shatter mentioned or have to pay more to keep themselves alive and well.

There should be equality in terms of what drugs can be prescribed under the GMS and drugs schemes, but it should not be an equality of misery. For example, gaviscon liquid, which was mentioned in the newspapers, has been excluded from the scheme. As no equivalent treatment is available, a more expensive drug will probably be prescribed which will cost the State money. We must look carefully at what is window dressing and what is real and at what is saving money and what is presented by the Minister as saving money. The Minister is not a fool and I am sure he knows that reducing options for patients and not providing the same good care to which they are entitled in order to save money does not work.

Child care was mentioned by previous speakers. Once the health boards are reorganised, I will be living in the only health board area in the country without a paediatric service or paediatrician. I accept that at present people go to Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin or Tallaght hospital, but I am concerned about this issue. I want to know how the Minister intends to address this problem.

I want to address two main issues — the acute hospital sector and my responsibilities in the child care sector. The most telling case for the policy undertaken by the Minister for Health and Children is the litany of difficulties outlined by the previous speakers, particularly Deputy Shortall. The strategy adopted by this Government for the development of the acute hospital sector is a comprehensive and coherent one. One of its important aspects is the development of regional self-sufficiency, ensuring equity of access to services and redressing regional imbalances in the organisation of services which have developed over many years.

Many Deputies said that fundamental changes must be made to the way our health services are run. For the first time, the Minister is adopting significant initiatives to deal with the operation of our health services, particularly our waiting lists. Deputy Shortall said there must be value for money. It is clear that although there has been a 50 per cent increase in the amount of money spent on waiting lists this year, we still have a serious problem. I am proud the Minister is, for the first time, changing the approach to this problem and is looking at waiting lists in a different way. He has appointed an expert group which has advised him well on the current difficulties and how to tackle them.

There has been a history of neglect as far as waiting lists and acute hospital expenditure are concerned. The last Government significantly reduced the amount of money spent in this area. Deputy Shortall said she agrees with the policy of not bailing out acute hospitals, but the basic allocation is not enough. No politician would say the allocation for the health sector is enough. It is a bottomless pit.

We can afford more.

I remind the Deputy that when her party leader was Minister for Finance, the basic allocation was not enough.

There was not a £1.3 billion surplus.

It was far less than what is being allocated this year by the Minister for Health and Children. The 9.5 per cent increase is one of the highest increases in a long time.

It is easy for Deputy Shortall to preach to us about the need to link health expenditure to GDP. When the Labour Party and Democratic Left were in Government, they totally neglected the health sector and the amount of money available was reduced. The policies pursued by the Labour Party in Government on the health services contributed to the difficulties we inherited, which we are now trying to tackle in a comprehensive and coherent manner.

What about the health strategy?

We could not continue to fund health boards on the basis of those who shouted loudest towards the end of the year.

We supported the previous Government when the Minister for Health, Deputy Noonan, introduced the 1996 legislation. He knew the only way to sort out the difficulties in the health service was to discipline health service providers and then to provide more money. The present Minister for Finance has put that policy into place for the first time this year.

We have seen how the Fine Gael Party has acted on the first opportunity it has had to stand up and be counted on its own legislation. The bleating on the Fine Gael benches is a far cry from the days when Deputy Dukes had the courage to introduce the Tallaght strategy or Deputy John Bruton had the courage to introduce difficult budgets.

In the early 1980s there were cries from the Opposition benches about Fianna Fáil allowing public expenditure to run out of control. We were all guilty of that in the early 1980s. It was only in 1987 that we adopted a different approach. It was a difficult approach at the time but it was the bed—rock on which our present economic development was born. That is why we have a surplus of £1.3 billion today and why the Estimate for the Department of Health and Children can be increased by 9.5 per cent. I remind Deputies Shortall and Shatter that there is only one way forward and that is with proper, comprehensive, strategic planning and proper budgetary controls and investment. We all agree that no matter how much money is allocated by the Department of Finance it will not be enough, irrespective of which party is in Government. We have to plan for the future and go forward within the budgetary constraints.

I wish to deal with the child care pilot projects mentioned by Deputy Shortall. I had to smile while the Deputy was speaking. She is right that the projects were initiated when this Government took office. At that time, nothing was being done in a co-ordinated, interdepartmental, strategic way for young children at risk or for families facing adversity. We had to start from scratch. These pilot projects were well thought out. When we announced them we knew exactly what we were doing. It is a reflection on previous Governments that Deputy Shortall did not know what they were about when they were announced. That is more a reflection——

What was the basis on which the locations were picked?

The locations were quite simple. This was part of an important and well thought out strategic approach, whereby £30 million was made available under the youth services budget. The vast majority of the £20 million is going to Dublin under the drugs initiative. The Cabinet sub-committee decided that the £2.4 million per year over three years should be spread around the country. Essentially, these were preventative programmes and the feeling was that because so much of the £20 million was being spent in Dublin, it was only fair that it be spread throughout the eight health board areas.

One of the major problems which has bedevilled us is that people such as Deputy Shortall believe that there is nothing outside the Pale. This has been reflected in health service spending over the years and we are determined to change this situation.

That is inaccurate.

That is part of the reason I decided to put some of these projects into every health board area.

There is only one in Dublin on the north side of the city.

There was no question of Ministers' constituencies being chosen over anywhere else. We had discussions with the health boards and we put those projects into every health board area. I am pleased that it is already evident that this small amount of expenditure will be one of the most efficient items this year. I have no problem with the amount of money being spent or where it is being spent. I hope that when we have good news tomorrow regarding funding for child care, Deputy Shortall will wish us well. It will be the first serious attempt to properly fund child care.

The Minister has come a long way in the past two weeks. Two weeks ago one could not even ask a question about health in the House. If one did so one risked being expelled, as happened to me. The Minister and the Government conceded that party leaders could make statements, then agreed to a debate on health. Two weeks later we are discussing a Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Health and Children.

Two weeks ago the Estimate was £5.5 million. Now we are discussing an Estimate of £19.5 million, an increase of £11 million. The Minister stated that the Supplementary Estimate relates to those areas where there is a degree of uncertainty in forecasting the actual costs in any one year and, consequently, the original Estimates did not provide for these full costs. The agreed practice has been to seek supplementary funding in these areas when the actual amount needed becomes apparent during the year.

When I question him on the serious situation at University College Hospital, Galway, the Minister of State continues to assert that it is illegal and that the Government cannot introduce a Supplementary Estimate. I am glad that this assertion has been proved to be a misstatement, given that we are debating a Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Health and Children.

The problem with this Estimate is not what is included but what is not. There is no mention of reducing waiting lists or solving the serious problem at University College Hospital, Galway. The situation at that hospital has deteriorated in the past two weeks. There was a work to rule by staff to prevent ward closures and the laying off of nurses, the theatre is already closed. We now have a situation of divide and conquer. One section of the staff has received assurances which may satisfy them. The other section is not happy and will take all steps necessary to avoid ward closures. If the solution is as good as it is claimed, why did we not reach this solution four weeks ago rather than having nurses, doctors, patients and their families going through such anxiety and drama?

The situation in Galway has become worse. In the first part of the day nursing staff belonging to one union may work normally while during the second half of the day the staff may be members of a different union. In such cases, two different sets of procedures will apply. Management will have to answer telephones and perform other non-nursing duties for one section of staff. During the other part of the day those managers will not be required.

The situation is costing a lot more than would have been the case if the Minister had grasped the nettle initially and provided the money to keep the wards and the theatre open. This is what is missing from this Estimate. The Minister could have had the courage to provide the necessary £1 million which would have kept these wards open.

The Minister of State handed out a prepared script but did not refer to it. Instead he spent ten minutes attacking the two previous speakers. That is the sort of politics he has carried on in Galway over the past two weeks.

The Deputy has some neck. He could not make a constructive comment if he was paid.

The Deputy is entitled to speak, as was the Minister of State.

The Minister of State has not faced up to his responsibilities, and those of the Minister, in solving the serious crisis. The buck stops with the Minister and the Minister of State was told this in no uncertain terms at two public meetings in Galway.

That is some guff.

The Minister of State said that he was proud of the Minister's record on waiting lists. He must not be aware of the situation in the hospital in the constituency we both represent. At the end of June the waiting list was 2,891. At the end of September it was 3,570, an increase of 600 in three months. It is a year and a half since the Government came to power. The Minster of State seeks to blame Deputies Shortall and McManus but the present difficulties have arisen since this Government took office. The waiting list figures have risen dramatically in the past three months and one wonders how far they will have risen by the end of the year.

All wards are now full to capacity in Galway. Last night, three patients remained overnight in casualty. St. Gerard's ward, which was to have been closed under the terms of proposals to settle the dispute at the hospital, now contains 31 beds. Where will those patients be accommodated if not in other wards and at the expense of other patients? If that happens waiting lists must get even longer.

I appeal to the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, to abandon his negative attitude to the health service and to desist from making veiled threats to the management of University College Hospital, Galway that the hospital will be deprived of funding for future projects if they criticise Government action. If the Minister of State, the Minister for Health and Children or officials of the Department have evidence of mismanagement at University College Hospital, they should investigate that matter. I would support such an investigation provided wards are not closed in the meantime. The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, made such a veiled threat at a public meeting last evening.

The Minister and the Minister of State must face up to their responsibilities. They are responsible for the situation which has arisen in the major hospital in the constituency which Deputy Fahey and I represent. The problem must be dealt with now because next year waiting lists will have become even longer.

I welcome the opportunity to speak briefly on the emotive issue of hospital waiting lists. This is not a new problem and it is disengenuous of Opposition Deputies to suggest that it was created by the present Government.

The list has grown by 600 in the past three months.

The problem was inherited from the previous Government and I compliment the Minister on acting positively, on putting procedures in place to analyse the problem and on targeting funding to alleviate the problems associated with long waiting lists.

We must examine the efficiency and cost effectiveness of our hospitals. Some are very efficient and perform admirably within their budget constraints while others are not. The issue of efficiency must be addressed. We must examine the number of procedures carried out in each hospital each year and how much each procedure costs. The number of procedures carried out in various hospitals appears to vary greatly. One wonders if mechanisms are in place to monitor the efficiency of hospitals.

The problem of doctors making inappropriate admissions to accident and emergency units must also be addressed. I am convinced that some doctors admit almost every patient who arrives at their hospitals.

I thank the Deputies who contributed to the debate and I apologise once again for the delay in distributing the text of my speech. This was due to a technical difficulty which arose at the last minute and was not within my control.

Reference has been made to the difference in the amounts of the Supplementary Estimates of two weeks ago and now. The net original figure was £5.5 millon. I obtained agreement that the issue of consultants' pay be dealt with in the context of the Supplementary Estimate. This allows for an increase of £10 million. I have also arranged an additional £4 million for aids and appliances. This amount of £14 million added to the original figure of £5.5 million gives the present figure of £19.5 million. Under the new contract, consultants are being paid on an ongoing basis by health boards, authorities and agencies. Making this money available now rather than carrying it as a cash flow item to be dealt with next year will assist voluntary hospitals and health boards.

The extra money for aids and appliances will assist the physically disabled. Last year, for the first time, a significant grant was given for aids and appliances. The measure proved very effective and was welcomed. This year, I have been able to make provision of £4 million in the Supplementary Estimate for aids and appliances for the physically handicapped. Health boards already have names of disabled people who will benefit from these appliances. The money will be forwarded to the health boards and will be passed, by way of grants to various organisations, to the individuals who need them. That method allows for individual needs to be met quickly while maintaining strict accountability. The Supplementary Estimate has not substantively changed from two weeks ago.

Questions were asked about the waiting list initiative. Waiting lists are not strictly relevant to the Supplementary Estimate. However, I can say that improvements in waiting times in a number of specialties are already evident. These validated results have only become available in the last few days. The allocation of funds to the waiting list initiative next year will depend on this year's case mix figures and the cost information under those figures. I will be seeking to reserve money as an incentive to hospitals who improve their throughput. These hospitals may receive a second allocation during the course of the year. The problem has been that a hospital was allocated funds on the basis of a long waiting list. That is not the best way to solve the problem. Consideration must be given to the publication of waiting times in all specialties in hospitals so that general practitioners may be encouraged to change their referral patterns and public patients will know where they will receive treatment most quickly.

Vote put.

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford) .Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper—Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Gildea, Thomas.Hanafin, Mary.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.

Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael. Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Allen, Bernard.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny) .Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burke, Liam.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gormley, John.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Joe.

Higgins, Michael.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Jim.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Pat.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
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