Vol. 499 No. 2
8 Mr. Dukes asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the consultations, if any, he held with local authorities before finalising the 1999 capital allocation for local authority and social housing, subhead B.1 of his Department's Estimate; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2163/99]
My Department consults housing authorities on their estimated capital requirements for local authority and social housing programmes embraced by subhead B.1 of the Department's Vote. The determination of the annual capital allocations to local authorities has regard to the information provided by authorities and to the provision made in the subhead for the programme. I expect to notify these allocations to local authorities next month.
Advance allocation of funds is not made to local authorities in respect of two capital items included in the subhead, namely, the grants in respect of accommodation provided by voluntary bodies and mortgage allowances to tenants and tenant purchasers. In these two instances, payments are made to local authorities in response to claims submitted by them.
Do the level and numbers of applicants on housing lists in the various local authorities form part of those consultations? If they do, will the Minister comment on how a decision is made on the overall allocation which results, for example, in my county, County Kildare, where there are 2,045 applicants on the housing list, with a prospect of 160 houses being built? This means that only one in 12 of those applicants has any chance of getting a new house this year. What is the process by which that figure is arrived at? To what extent can the Minister say that that constitutes consultation with local authorities?
The Deputy will be aware that the method of allocating is as I have outlined and takes into account the assessment of needs which is carried out every three years. The last assessment was carried out in 1996. The assessment of needs identified on that occasion are taken into account in making these allocations. In view of the substantial increase in the number of applicants for local authority houses in the intervening period, account is taken also of figures which each local authority was asked to supply which would be a rough estimate of the numbers on their waiting lists and would not be as detailed as the results of the comprehensive housing needs study which is carried out every three years. As I have announced here on a number of occasions, the next housing needs study is due to commence in March. The 1996 assessment and the most recent information provided by the local authorities are taken into account in arriving at a decision.
The amount allocated also must relate to the claims which remain outstanding for work which has already been done and the on-going work. Added to that is funding in relation to the number of starts, which is what the Deputy is referring to, which may come on stream for payment during the financial year – in this case I assume we are talking about 1999.
That is all very interesting, especially all this business about starts, but it is all camouflage. Is the Minister aware that since the 1996, the problem has continued to increase? Is he aware that as things stand today there are more than 40,000 separate applications for housing by local authorities around the country? How many of those applications have any chance of being met this year or is the situation in Kildare, where one in 12 of 2,000 applicants has any chance of getting a house this year, typical of the country? If it is, what will the Minister do about it?
The gross figure on the 1996 assessment when the Deputy was in Government was roughly 37,500.
We have been through all that.
I have informed the House that it has been growing.
It is 40,000.
The Minister is in possession. Please allow him to reply.
That is the figure from the assessment.
What is the 1996 figure?
37,000.
It was 26,000.
No. We are talking about gross figures now.
What is the gross figure now?
There is none because the housing assessment has not been carried out yet. I have already said that. It is a comprehensive assessment and it will take some time to be collated after the figures are received from the local authorities.
There has been an increase of 15,000 since 1996.
It is expected that in 1999, 10,250 households will be accommodated under the local authority social housing programme.
How many new local authority starts will there be?
Is the Minister seriously telling this House he is still basing his housing allocations on data which is three years out of date when there were 20,000 people fewer on the housing list and when couples, unlike now, could afford to buy a home of their own? Is he saying to us that he will get 6,000 allocations from the voluntary sector and from casual vacancies to make up his 10,000, which appears to me to be a totally unrealistic assessment? What was the total number of lettings last year?
There are a number of questions and I will be happy to answer them all. To return to the question of the 1996 assessment, because the Deputy is challenging the figures and his own colleague was the Minister in charge of housing in the Department at the time, the total number of households included in the 1996 assessment was 37,718.
The Minister is misleading the House.
I have been asked these questions about the social housing provision for 1998 and 1999. I stated that it was expected that 10,250 households would be accommodated under the social housing provision in 1999. It is to be made up as follows: local authority housing, 3,700; vacancies in existing stock, 3,900; voluntary housing/capital assistance scheme, 450; rental subsidy scheme, 500; improvement works in lieu and extensions to local authority housing, 300; mortgage allowance, 200; and shared ownership, 1,200. The total is 10,250 and the figure for 1998 was 9,252.
Will the Minister now agree that this is a fair statement of the situation: as far as we can determine from local authorities around the country there are 40,000 individual applications for housing in rented accommodation by the local authorities? The Minister has just told us that he expects that some 3,700 new units will be made available this year for renting by local authorities to those people on the housing lists. Therefore, the Minister is now telling us that less than one in ten applicants who are currently on the waiting lists will get a house this year.
That is not what the Minister is saying; that is what the Deputy is telling him.
The Minister has talked about all the other things, the social housing, the houses which become available from people moving out and the houses which become available from people giving back houses because they have bought houses elsewhere, but on the basic level there are 40,000 applicants for housing in rented accommodation by local authorities and the Minister stated that 3,700 of those will get a house to rent from a local authority this year. That is less than one in ten and the Minister has been trying to tell us he is doing everything possible about housing. He is meeting less than one-tenth of that problem.
I am surprised at Deputy Dukes. He is living in the past. He does not seem to realise there has been a major change in the provision. We are into a social housing programme which includes much more than local authority houses.
Some 3,700 out of 40,000 is less than one in ten.
I have given the figure for local authority house completions expected for 1999. There are other lettings. The method of assessing this has not changed over the years. What has changed is the increase in the provision through the capital assistance scheme, rent subsidy scheme, mortgage subsidy and other supports which are there to ensure that up to 10,250 households will be provided for.
We know all that.
I am the person who put it into the public arena that the number of people on the local housing authority lists at the moment, in so far as we can assess them, is more than 40,000 – that is the ballpark figure with which we are dealing. I know what the challenge is and we are trying to meet it through increasing the range of options for housing people and by trying to encourage greater use of the social and voluntary housing programmes—
That is flannel and camouflage.
—where the Government is willing to provide the money and anxious to encourage the excellent housing organisations, some of which the Deputy knows. I am happy with the quality of their work, and the management of their estates.
And their insulation.
All those words will not buy a single extra house to rent.
All these elements will help to provide homes for people who are not in a position to buy homes themselves. That is the challenge which faces us and we are willing and ready to take it on. We have taken a wide range of actions to increase the output of houses so that people who need affordable homes will be able to get them.
We heard that half an hour ago.
The Deputy is not interested in that and wants to dismiss it. We have increased output which is what counts.
The Minister is like a broken record.
It is a supply problem. We know the demand is resulting from the number of people now at work in the economy, the number of emigrants who have returned –
I will not ask any more supplementaries on this.
—and the people who are not going away, who are forming households and looking for accommodation here. We will ensure that our policies are aimed at providing affordable homes for them.
Less than one in ten.
The results of this will be and are already there to be seen. We have stabilised the controlled price increases, increased housing output and we will continue to bring equilibrium to the housing market.
The Minister is generating a fog of figures to disguise his inactivity in this area. I will stick to the figures. The Minister hopes he will get an extra 1,000 lettings in the next year. Does he accept there is an extra 10,000 applicants looking for housing? Does he accept that he needs to take additional measures to provide for the people coming on to the housing list? He is giving a big justification for a standstill position. What additional measures will the Government take to provide for additional housing for the people looking for it? This Government does not even accept there is a housing problem.
Perhaps the Deputy will give me an opportunity to outline what we have been doing and what we intend to continue to do.
Do not read it out.
On the supply side, the serviced land initiative will deliver 100,000 sites for new houses in 1999 and 2000. We have increased residential densities in appropriate locations – we are bringing out new guidelines on densities—
What is the Minister doing about social housing?
—in order to get a better return for taxpayers for the investment which has been made.
That is for builders and investors.
We brought about a temporary reduction of capital gains tax on the disposal of serviced land to encourage faster release for residential development.
A reduction in capital gains tax for someone on a housing waiting list? Is the Minister joking?
The Deputy should allow the Minister to continue.
These are all the practical measures needed to meet supply. This is a supply problem and we are taking steps to increase supply. To remove distortions in the marketplace, we removed the fiscal incentives for investors who were pricing low income buyers out of the market. We have dealt with that and it has been very successful.
Among the measures to help first-time buyers we have increased income limits—
This is very sad.
—for the shared ownership scheme. We have introduced significant reductions in the stamp duty rate, particularly at the lower price levels, contrasted—
This is not the Bundestag.
—with what the outgoing Government did with stamp duties, which created a major bottleneck in the system and froze the housing market. We removed that obstacle which it foolishly and ignorantly created and which contributed greatly to the increase in prices.
This is an Árd Fheis speech.
I was asked what we were doing. We substantially increased resources for social housing in 1999.
If the Minister keeps going he will believe himself.
The local authority housing programme is being raised to 4,500 starts—
And the list gets longer and longer.
—which is the highest level since 1986. A total of 10,250 households have been accommodated in the various social housing measures, including the vacancies in existing local authority housing stock.
And the list gets longer and longer.
This is compared to the figure of just over 9,000 last year, which was a great deal smaller when the other parties were in Government.
We brought about a series of improvements to the terms of the schemes under which the voluntary housing sector—
We have heard this before.
—provides social housing to facilitate greater output. We increased provision for recoupment of local authority expenditure. We have given extra funding towards hostel accommodation for the homeless—
The Minister is nearly there, the line is in sight.
—including funding for the first foyer project in this country—
On a point of order—
—to provide accommodation for homeless people.
Deputy Dukes on a point of order.
We have provided grants for adapting houses to meet the needs of disabled persons from £8,000 to £12,000.
Will the Minister please resume his seat?
A Cheann Comhairle, I wish we could help you as it is absolutely impossible for you to deal with a runaway Minister—
That is not a point of order—
—who keeps going and cannot stop.
The Chair has no control over that.
I know the Chair has no control over that but will you take it up with the Government so we do not have to deal with a Minister who is like a runaway train?
Will the Minister now deal with Question No. 9?
I am sorry that I was cut off in mid-stream when I was asked to outline what the Government was doing – they did not want to hear it.
I am proceeding with Question No. 9. We have spent 15 minutes on this question.
They asked the question, they should have got the answer.
Will the Minister please deal with Question No. 9?
The record should show the Minister of State was only halfway through the list he was giving in reply to the question he was asked.
We have devoted 15 minutes to this question and we must now proceed to Question No. 9.
