Vol. 499 No. 2
1 Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government his views concerning the need to increase the standard of insulation used in the construction of new homes; if he has considered the prohibition of nine inch hollow concrete blocks in the context of revising the building regulations of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2351/99]
Part L of the building regulations, which applies to the design and construction of new buildings and the reconstruction of existing buildings, sets out the legal requirements to be observed in the conservation of fuel and energy.
Technical Guidance Document L, which accompanies the regulations, provides guidance on the thermal performance standards for walls independent of the materials used. The guidance also deals with the means of applying insulation and selecting the thickness of insulation using material with various thermal properties.
The building regulations do not in themselves place a restriction on the use of any particular method of construction or product, including hollow concrete blocks, provided the performance requirements of the building regulations are met. My Department is initiating a review of the insulation requirements of Technical Guidance Document L having regard to Ireland's obligations to limit greenhouse gas emissions under the Kyoto Protocol of 1997. It is too early to say definitively at this stage whether it will be possible for hollow blocks, suitably insulated, to continue in use when the revised Technical Guidance Document L is fully operative.
Why is this issue being taken by the Minister and not the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy? Why has the Department of the Environment and Local Government not prohibited the use of nine inch hollow blocks for construction when they are regarded as providing a deficient form of insulation in all new homes? Why are no local authority houses built using this methodology, and why are very few houses throughout the United Kingdom – which has a similar environment to ours – being built with this methodology? Why are no houses outside the Dublin area built according to this method? Does the Minister accept the advice of his Department on this issue?
I do not know to what advice the Deputy is referring. I am not aware of advice from the Department on this specific matter. I told the Deputy that this practice would be reviewed in light of the technical documents, and it will be. If I get advice at that stage I will take it into consideration.
As to the number of "why" questions the Deputy addressed to me, such as why this is not used for local authority housing or houses outside Dublin, that is a matter for individual contractors. I am not sure if the Deputy is insinuating there is a particular fault in the use of nine inch hollow blocks. The standards to which the local authorities build their houses arise from decisions made by those local authorities. Contractors in Dublin or outside can base their judgments on that. The building regulations place no restriction on a particular method of construction, but obviously, in light of the Kyoto Protocol and the higher standards that will be necessary—
I get the Minister's answer—
I will tell the Deputy when I am finished.
There is a time consideration.
That rule has lapsed.
So we are back to a free for all. Fair enough.
However, if question No. 3 is not reached in 20 minutes it falls.
In addition, if the Deputy is advocating that manufacture of hollow blocks is discontinued, the implications of that will have to be looked at carefully. I am committed to increasing the insulation and thermal values in line with Kyoto, but there are manufacturers of hollow blocks who would be out of business. The method used by builders at present is quicker than building the solid block walls, and it would obviously take longer to build houses. Price problems would also be caused, and all of these things must be taken into consideration before a final decision is made.
I am interested to learn that the Minister now has a view on the industry wide problems, as I thought sustainable development was his remit. We will come back to that.
Is the Minister aware that on 22 May 1998 the construction section of his Department sent a confidential note to the Minister of State, Deputy Molloy? I will read that note.
The Deputy may not quote. We are taking questions.
The import of this note, which is available under the Freedom of Information Act—
The Deputy should ask a question. This is Question Time.
I am coming to my question in relation to this professional advice to Deputy Molloy, which said quite clearly that the Department of the Environment and Local Government will probably have to review technical guidance documents on building regulations sooner than we had planned. However, it says that we do not want to signal this to the outside world just yet, because the next—
The Deputy is clearly quoting. He should ask a question.
Is it not the case that this was sent to the Minister of State? Did the Minister have discussions with the Minister of State as a result of getting this new technical information from the construction section of the Department? Why would the Department not want to signal to the outside world that it proposes to change our standards of insulation?
If the Deputy puts down a question about a document he has, I will be happy to answer it.
That is evasion.
It is not evasion. I do not know the document to which the Deputy is referring.
Deputy Molloy knows the document.
On the review process, I have stated in replies to previous questions from Deputy Clune on Kyoto that I believe strongly that the insulation levels in housing and energy conservation will have to be stepped up. It is and will be part of the consultation taking place on the national strategy on greenhouse gas emissions. There is not any secret about that.
On the technical guidance documents, there is a review process being done through a building regulations advisory body under the Department's auspices. That body advises me and as a result changes are made. I have clearly signalled to that body the need to consider and to give due notice to everyone of increased insulation standards. For the Deputy's information, the deadline for the review process is the end of 1999. We will publish a document for public comment and finalisation in mid-2000, and phase one will come into operational effect by 1 January 2001. Phase two will come into effect by 1 January 2005.
The Deputy asked about my industry wide concerns. It is the duty of any Minister to take all sides of an argument into account before making a decision.
The Minister should—
I bring to the Deputy's attention that if he takes any more time on this question, his colleague, Deputy Clune, will not be able to ask her question.
I have one more supplementary question. I have had a fraction of the time in comparison with the Minister.
The Deputy is denying his colleague the opportunity to raise her question.
Is it not a disgrace that at a time of colossal house prices in Dublin young couples are getting a deficient form of insulation in their houses, and the Minister and his Department have done nothing about this until their public announcement as a result of the question I have asked today? Is it not also the case that we are in breach of the Kyoto guidelines, and we will have to pay a penalty because we have been unable to reduce our CO2 emissions, particularly as a result of the levels of insulation in the construction industry? The Minister is clear when he wants to tackle the motor industry, but he is not so sure when it comes to tackling the construction industry.
Deputy Hayes must have been living in a cocoon during the past 12 months. He and some of his colleagues said we would not take the necessary measures to tackle the increase in house prices and that we would not take on the building industry, but we have taken it on and have done something about this matter other than talk about it.
The Minister did not want to tell anyone about that.
The Deputy must have been living in a cocoon if he did not hear what was said and of the action that was taken.
The Minister should speak to his junior Minister more often.
The action that was taken is a good deal more than the hot air we got from the Deputies opposite in recent years.
The problem is that the action has produced only hot air.
Deputy Hayes's allegation that standards are deficient in buildings that are being constructed is not substantiated. There are regulations and stipulations in place. The products being used are manufactured to Irish standard 20. Their application is in accordance with Irish standard 325. We are reviewing and revising the position and we do that on a regular basis. Building regulations have been updated for as long as the Department has been in existence. I announced that on several occasions over the past 12 months. The Deputy should leave the Kyoto Protocol and its implementation—
Is the Minister going to leave it to young couples to pick up the price for putting in a better form of insulation?
Does the Deputy want me to read my reply again?
The Minister is in favour of a deficient form of insulation.
His Department agrees with him.
He is saying that young couples will have to pick up the price of putting in a better form of insulation.
Who would have to pick up the price if we were to do what the Deputy is advocating?
The Minister is in favour of a deficient form of insulation.
Order please, Deputies.
That is rubbish.
The Minister will not up the standard.
The Deputies opposite seem to have some difficulty hearing me.
No. The Minister seems to have some difficulty about doing something.
If the Deputies listened they might hear what I am saying. The review has started in the Department. It is being undertaken in consultation with the building regulations advisory body. The deadline for its completion is the end of 1999.
This is filibustering.
The deadline for its publication for public comment and finalisation is mid-2000. Its provisions will become operational six months later in the first phase and in 2005 in the second phase. That is in line with the normal consultation process. If the Deputies opposite are telling me we should not have this consultation and that we should act unilaterally—
The Minister should take some action.
We are taking action. That is the action.
