Jim Higgins
Ceist:3 Mr. Higgins (Mayo) asked the Taoiseach the number of babies born in 1998; the number born to single mothers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3982/99]
Ceisteanna–Questions. - Birth Rate.
The most recent information available is up to the end of September 1998. In the period January to September 1998, 41,161 births were registered. Of these, 11,439, or 27.8 per cent, were to unmarried mothers. The corresponding figures for the previous year, 1997, was 52,311 births in total of which 13,892, or 26.6 per cent, were to unmarried mothers. Statistics for the full year 1998 will be published by the CSO in May.
(Mayo): Will the Minister of State indicate the number of babies born to unmarried mothers in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway? Does the Minister of State have those figures on file?
I do not have those figures to hand and I do not know if they are produced in that fashion. However, I will communicate with the Deputy when I get that information. Births outside marriage are those recorded on the births notification form as being births to mothers whose marital status is classified as single or divorced. In addition, it is indicated with regard to a small number of births to married, separated or widowed mothers that the father is not the woman's husband.
In 1997, there were 2,747 births to teenage mothers. That is almost twice as many as in 1980 when there were 1,431 births. In 1980, 38 per cent of births outside marriage were to teenage mothers. By 1997, this figure had fallen to 19.8 per cent.
(Mayo): In the context of dealing with divorce statistics, the Minister of State mentioned the need for accurate statistics from the point of view of devising social policy. Does the Minister of State agree that we are witnessing a huge change in traditional patterns? Are the socio-economic consequences of what is happening being studied at Government level? What is the position in that regard?
The Minister of State is only responsible for the statistical information.
He is not too good at statistics.
He is not responsible for policy.
He is lucky.
I am all right as long as I can count to 84.
Questions on policy are not in order.
All the CSO information will be taken on board by the Government in its planning of social policy.
Does the Minister of State accept that approximately 49 per cent of all first births in the Dublin region are outside wedlock? Does he agree that there is a substantial number of single parent homes where there are three and four children? In many cases a de facto father is present but the system of social supports is designed in such a way that there is a disincentive—
The Deputy is rambling into an area of social policy. This is not in order on these questions which are of a statistical nature. The Minister of State is only responsible for the statistical information. The Deputy may not develop a point that relates to policy.
Given the presence of many de facto fathers and husbands, does the Minister of State believe the statistics which show there are many single parents with more than one child? Does he consider that the statistics are affected by the fact that many fathers and husbands are not declaring themselves? What inferences does the Minister of State draw from that position?
A note on the file regarding the number of previous children states that in 1980 first order births, that is, the mother's first baby, accounted for approximately 84 per cent of births outside marriage. This proportion has fallen steadily since then and stood at 62 per cent in 1997. Therefore, 38 per cent of births outside marriage in 1997 were to women who already had at least one child.
(Mayo): The Minister of State outlined the figures for the first nine months. When will the statistics for the remaining three months be available to give the full picture for 1998?
They will be published in May.
Does the Minister of State agree there is much misinformation or a lack of information and consequently prejudice from either direction in relation to this issue? Perhaps the Minister of State would prefer us to table questions to enable him to respond, but would he consider it useful if all the facts relating to births to people who are married and unmarried were available? In many cases, weddings follow the birth of the first child. There is an erroneous picture statistically in terms of the number of single parents on lone parent allowances and the percentages in relation to births outside marriage. Does the Minister of State have any intention of requesting the CSO to give the type of breakdown to which Deputy Higgins referred in relation to various urban centres? This would inform debate and enable all the participants in public affairs to formulate policy based on facts rather than prejudice.
I have much sympathy for the Deputy's suggestion. I will discuss it with the CSO. There is an old saying, "Lies, damned lies and statistics."
The Minister of State is in charge of the statistics.
Lies, damned lies, statistics and sandwiches.
We will leave the rest to the other side of the House.
If the Minister of State is opting for quotations, he should stick to Shakespeare.
Some of the statistics are stark, such as the figure of 38 per cent for the number of births outside marriage.
It is not the full story.
I agree.
Why does the Minister of State not get the full story?
I gave the statistics for which I was asked.
So the right question was not asked?
I did not make up that quotation. I think it was Deputy John Bruton.
Deputy Rabbitte rose.
We are running out of time for questions to the Taoiseach. I ask the Deputy to bear that in mind.
It is similar to the millennium project; time is ticking away. The Minister of State gave a number of interesting titbits of information from his file. However, none of them replied to the questions he was asked.
Precisely.
Does the Minister of State have on file the figures for births to single mothers in the main cities of Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick, as requested by Deputy Higgins? Are these figures not on file?
I do not know what problem the Deputy and I have with regard to hearing. I said in reply to a direct question from Deputy Higgins that I did not have those figures.
Why does the Minister of State not have them?
I will deal with that aspect.
Why is the Minister of State present if he does not have them? If he spent as much time preparing for this as he did for other matters he would have the figures.
The Deputy said I did not answer the question. I was asked the number of babies born in 1998 and the number born to single mothers. I answered those questions.
Did the Minister of State ever hear of supplementary questions? He is pretending this is his first day in the Dáil. Members ask supplementary questions.
I do not have the information for Dublin.
The Deputy asked the most obvious question in relation to the phenomenon of births to single mothers. What are the figures for urban areas in Dublin, Limerick, Galway and Cork?
The Deputy should put down a separate question.
If the Deputy wants that information, he should table a question.