Vol. 501 No. 4
9 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government when he will make the necessary ministerial order under the Local Government Act, 1991, to provide the promised new regional authorities; the proposed membership and powers of these authorities; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6150/99]
The Department of Finance is currently engaged in consultations with EUROSTAT about the Government's proposals on regionalisation. The necessary order will be made under the Local Government Act, 1991, as soon as possible in light of the outcome of these discussions.
Membership of the two new regional authorities will be drawn from elected representatives who are members of the eight existing regional authorities. The authorities will have the following responsibilities: managing new regional programmes in the next Community Support Framework; advising the Government on the regional dimension of the National Development Plan; monitoring the general impact of all EU programmes of assistance under the Community Support Framework in their areas; and promoting co-ordination of the provision of public services in their areas.
This is news. I understood on 10 February, when the Government announced the establishment of two new so-called group regions, that this decision had been arrived at by Government following a lengthy period of deliberation since last July, was independent of anything happening in EUROSTAT and was based on the regional needs of the country. Is the Minister now saying the announcement he made on 10 February of two new group regions no longer applies and that the two authorities are not now to be established in the form announced?
I think there was a non sequitur in the middle of the Deputy's question.
No, it is in the Minister's answer.
It is in what the Minister is doing.
What I outlined just now is exactly what was outlined previously. I cannot help it if the Deputy's understanding does not correspond with the correct position. I do not accept people basing questions on false premises and then trying to discredit arguments, which is what the Deputy is trying to do.
On 10 February the Minister—
It is not in order to quote on Question Time.
I am not quoting.
He is reminding himself.
On 10 February the Minister announced a group region called the Border, Midlands and Western Group Regional Authority—
The BMW group.
—which would include the counties of Clare and Kerry. Is it still intended to proceed with the establishment of that region?
For the Deputy's benefit, I will restate what I said. He knows about the order having to be made under the Local Government Act. I mentioned there would be two regions and that membership of the two new regional authorities – the two to which he referred – would be drawn from elected representatives who are members of the existing eight regional authorities. I also outlined the responsibilities of the two authorities. I do not know what further information the Deputy requires.
I am talking about the boundaries of the regions, a topic with which the Minister is not entirely unfamiliar and about which he is being a little disingenuous. We were told on 10 February there would be a regional authority consisting of the Border, midlands and western regions, plus Clare and Kerry. Will that region be established?
Yes.
Including Clare and Kerry?
Yes.
Good. When is it intended to make the regulation under the Local Government Act? I got the impression from the Taoiseach when I asked him about this some time ago that the regulation was ready to roll and would appear in our pigeon holes or in the Library soon. When will the regulation be made?
It was made clear at the time that consultations were ongoing with EUROSTAT and the European Commission and that once the final details were agreed the two regions would be established.
May I take it that the two regions will be established not on the basis of national regional policy but on the basis of what EUROSTAT and the European Commission tell the Government?
Studies were conducted by the Department of Finance over a long period and discussed by the Ministers and Secretaries Group last year through June to September. The Government subsequently decided that the country would be divided into two regions. That is what will happen.
EUROSTAT will decide.
The Deputy would not expect us before the final details are agreed—
Who is running the country?
We are.
EUROSTAT.
Is it not the case that the Minister is unable to tell us when the regions will be established and what the boundaries will be? Is it not the case that in all probability the Government will return to the House to state that the BMW group – Border, midlands and west – will consist of 13 counties rather than 15? How will this group, with the functions about which the Minister has spoken, mesh with the Western Development Commission whose remit covers seven of the 13 counties?
The Deputy's acronym is not appropriate.
It is a term of art, only it has no wheels.
It is the Government's intention to establish at the appropriate time—
I commend the Minister's loyalty to a desperate cause.
—the two regions outlined in the decision to which Deputy Gilmore referred. EUROSTAT is an independent body which would not interfere in the political machinations of the European Commission and the European Union. The powers of the regional authorities may be raised in the discussions with the European Commission. It would be wise, therefore, not to establish the two regions by order if it has to be amended subsequently.
The Government recognises that it cannot state what its policy is because it is being determined elsewhere. That is the only sensible thing the Minister has said. It is my understanding that the Government will draw up and submit to the House a national development plan which will articulate the various operational programmes for the various parts of EU activity. Will the regional authorities manage those programmes which will be defined by the various Departments? Once the national development plan has been drawn up will the advice of the regional authorities on the regional dimension have an impact? What conclusions, if any, will the Government be prepared to draw from the monitoring of the operational programmes by the regional authorities, the members of which will be indirectly elected through the existing regional bodies?
The regional authorities will have more powers. The eight existing regional bodies have no function in managing regional programmes. Because of the timescale involved the regional bodies have identified priorities which will be fed into the national development plan. The regional programmes will be managed by one of the regional authorities. This may mean that it will have a specific budget under the Community Support Framework.
To decide on programmes independently of the Government?
The national development plan will identify priorities over a four or five year period. The regional authority may decide that one project should have greater priority provided the national aims are met. The national development plan has to be in place early this year. Once it is in place the two regional authorities will have a role in advising the Government on its effectiveness at regional level.
I understand the ministerial order establishing the two regions will not be made until EUROSTAT and the European Commission have signed off on the negotiations with the Government and the Department of Finance.
And until the Government has consulted with Deputy Healy-Rae.
Is this an indication that the Government has little confidence in the case it has made to the European Commission? Does it not mean that it anticipates that the Commission will change the regional structure proposed and approved by Deputy Healy-Rae on 10 February?
I disagree with the Deputy.
Why does he not have the courage to sign the order?
If I signed orders before consultations were completed in relation to any matter, the Deputy would be the first person jumping up and down about our approach.
But he announced it.
That is a nice try.
He should stick to what he announced.
The Government is totally committed to the regional structure which it has put forward. We intend to deliver on it.
He does not believe in that.
Unlike the two sections of the Labour Party, one of which is in favour while the other is against, and Fine Gael—
And Fianna Fáil.
—we are committed to the regional structures. We are committed to maximising the amount of money we receive in aid from the EU. We make no apology to any Member of this House for that and we make no apology to the EU either.
He is making a mess of it so far.
We are entitled to a fair share. We are entitled to be treated in the same manner as other countries have been.
There is no other country which would allow regions to be set up by EUROSTAT.
The Deputy should look at the record in Europe in relation to the various regions – I can cite three or four in the UK. People like Deputy Gilmore and other members of his party, who have been undermining the Government's position in this regard, are not working in the national interest.
He is making a laughing stock of it.
