Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 31 Mar 1999

Vol. 503 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re Referral of Estimates for Public Services (1999) to Select Committees; No. a6, motion re: Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 6, 8, 30, 33, 34 and 42] and subject, to the agreement of No. a6, to take the Supplementary Estimates [Votes 6, 8, 30, 33, 34 and 42]; No. 9, motion re Electoral Act, 1997, Order 1999, and the European Parliament Election (Reimbursement of Expenses) Regulations, 1999; No. 31, Irish Sports Council Bill, 1998 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; No. 30, Local Government (Planning and Development) Bill, 1998 [Seanad] – Second Stage (resumed).

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) No. 8 shall be decided without debate; (2) No. a6 (Leave to Introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 6, 8, 30, 33, 34 and 42]) shall be decided without debate and, subject to the agreement of No. a6, the Supplementary Estimates [Votes 6, 8, 30, 33, 34 and 42] shall be moved together and decided without debate by one question which shall be put from the Chair and any division demanded on No. a6 or the Supplementary Estimates shall be taken forthwith; (3) The proceedings on No. 9, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a con clusion after 30 minutes and speeches shall be confined to the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party whose speeches shall not exceed 10 minutes in each case; and (4) The Dáil, on its rising on Thursday, 1 April 1999, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 20 April 1999.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 53, Activity Centres (Young Persons' Water Safety) Bill, 1998 (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. tonight.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are four proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8 agreed to?

Mrs. Owen

Before we agree to that business, will the Tánaiste give a commitment to the House that before the Dáil adjourns tomorrow for the Easter recess the Minister for Justice will come to the House with a report of his investigation—

An Ceann Comhairle

That is out of order. When we get to the proposals currently before the House, the Deputy may raise that matter.

Mrs. Owen

We are dealing with the proposals.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is a specific proposal about the referral of Estimates. I will allow the Deputy to ask a question when we come to the appropriate time.

Mrs. Owen

The Chair is putting the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are on a proposal to refer Estimates.

Mrs. Owen

I am not agreeing to it on the basis—

An Ceann Comhairle

I will have to put the question if the Deputy is not agreeing to it.

Mrs. Owen

I want to explain.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have explained to the Deputy that when the proposals are agreed to I will allow her to ask her question.

Mr. Noonan

On a point of order, I understand that what the Deputy Leader of Fine Gael is suggesting is that there will be a vote if we cannot get a commitment from the Tánaiste but not if we do get a commitment. If she could put the point, we could get on in an orderly fashion.

An Ceann Comhairle

The question before the House is about the referral of Estimates.

Mrs. Owen

I will not agree to it without a vote unless I get a commitment from the Tánaiste on this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will have to put the question.

Mrs. Owen

I might not want to press it. The Tánaiste wants to reply. I do not want to be disorderly. It is important that I get a commitment.

An Ceann Comhairle

We have to have proper order in the House. Will the Deputy resume her seat while the Chair is on his feet?

Mrs. Owen

The Chair is not allowing me to explain why I want to challenge the order.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will not allow the Deputy to be out of order. What is happening is against Standing Orders and the Deputy should resume her seat.

Mrs. Owen

I will resume my seat. Could I have one minute?

Mr. Howlin

On a point of order, to be helpful—

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Howlin on a point of order.

Mrs. Owen

That is unfair to me. I wanted to explain why I will not agree to the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is unfair to the Chair. Will the Deputy resume her seat?

Mrs. Owen

Will the Chair not allow me to speak before Deputy Howlin?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume her seat. The question before the House is about the referral of Estimates.

Mrs. Owen

I want to challenge that, and I want to give the reason.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot deal with other matters until we have dealt with the proposals.

Mrs. Owen

There are many precedents where a Member of the Opposition challenged the Order of Business in the absence of agreement from the Government.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste has indicated that she wishes to speak. I will allow her to do so, but it is not to be taken as a precedent. Deputy Howlin, on a point of order.

Mr. Howlin

The Minister of State made a commitment last night and it would be helpful to the ordering of business today if the timeframe of that commitment were explained in advance of a decision on the referral of this Estimate. It is a reasonable proposal.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling on the Tánaiste.

Mrs. Owen

Can I come in again? The Chair did not allow me to make the point I wanted to make. That is unfair to me.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made that point a number of times.

Mrs. Owen

I did not make that point a number of times.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call on the Tánaiste to make a brief comment on the matter.

Mrs. Owen

I want to protest. I want to be orderly—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has been totally disorderly.

Mrs. Owen

I have not been disorderly. I want to hear from the Tánaiste.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy continues to be disorderly.

Mrs. Owen

I am not and that is grossly unfair to the Opposition parties.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will ask the Tánaiste to make a brief comment.

Mrs. Owen

The Tánaiste is trying to hide somebody.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has been completely out of order.

Mrs. Owen

I have not.

An Ceann Comhairle

You certainly have been out of order.

The Tánaiste

There is considerable disquiet and concern, both inside and outside this House, about what appears to be the unusual procedures followed in this case. The Government shares that concern. As Deputies are aware, the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform indicated last night that the Minister for Justice is carrying out an inquiry. The Attorney General has spoken to the Chief Justice and the Judiciary is making an inquiry. We hope those inquiries can be brought to a conclusion very quickly. It is important that they should be. As soon as they are, the Minister will come to the House to make a statement and take questions. I cannot say whether that will be today or tomorrow because I do not know at this stage when the inquiries will be concluded. We hope they can be concluded before the Dáil resumes tomorrow.

Mr. Howlin

May I ask one question?

An Ceann Comhairle

When the Tánaiste has finished.

The Tánaiste

As the Deputy knows, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is in Northern Ireland at the moment. It is his intention to speak with the Opposition spokespersons for justice today, if possible. If the inquiry is completed we will have a discussion in the House either today or tomorrow, but as quickly as possible. That is what the Government wants and I know that is what the House and everybody else wants to see as regards this matter.

Mrs. Owen

It is essential that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform comes into the House before the Dáil adjourns, even if, as the Tánaiste says, his inquiries are not fully complete. The country is talking about the situation. We have the Cahirciveen connection, we have judges involved, we have all sorts of things that are undermining the judicial process.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have statements, Deputy. The Deputy continues to be disorderly. She should not continue.

Mrs. Owen

I want the Minister to come in tomorrow before the House adjourns.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Tánaiste has replied to that matter.

Mrs. Owen

When I was Minister I came into the House to make a statement within 24 hours. I did not hide behind a junior Minister.

Mr. D. Ahern

That is a very unfair thing to say. The Deputy knows the Minister is in Northern Ireland.

Mrs. Owen

The Minister should make a statement.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume her seat. We cannot have arguments on the matter. Please allow the Tánaiste to respond.

The Tánaiste

What Deputy Owen said is very serious. As she knows, there is a clear separation in our Constitution between the Judiciary, the Executive and the Oireachtas.

Mr. Noonan

There should be.

The Tánaiste

Yes. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has no involvement whatever in this matter. As soon as the Government became aware of it a few weeks ago, the Attorney General spoke to the Chief Justice. I want to assure the Deputy—

Mr. Noonan

Is the Tánaiste sure of that?

The Tánaiste

Yes, I am.

Mrs. Owen

One of the judges was appointed very soon afterwards.

The Tánaiste

Deputy Owen is making very serious allegations and I honestly do not believe she should.

Mr. M. Smith

The Deputy is making accusations with nothing to back them up. That is what keeps her over there. She is accusing people without any evidence.

Mrs. Owen

It never shocked the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume her seat now or I will have no option but to suspend the sitting. I will suspend the sitting if the Deputy is not orderly.

Mrs. Owen

Is that what the Minister is saying?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is continuing to speak in defiance of the Chair.

Mr. Howlin

During last night's debate I requested the Government to ask the Attorney General to seek that the file of the DPP in this case would be laid before the House. The sworn affidavits would have been public had the judicial review taken place last week. It would allay many of the fears if that file was laid before the House. Has that request been considered by the Government? Will the Government make that request of the DPP to allay fears and the charges that are being laid?

The Tánaiste

I do not know if it has been. I was certainly not aware of the requests because I was not here last night, but I will convey the Deputy's wishes to the Attorney General.

Mr. Noonan

Has the Tánaiste seen that file?

The Tánaiste

No, I have not. I will communicate with the Deputy shortly after the Order of Business.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am now putting the question on the proposal for dealing with No. 8. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mrs. Owen

I am not finished and it is not good enough.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a6 agreed?

Mrs. Owen

No. On a point of order—

Question put.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.

Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael. Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Allen, Bernard.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Burke, Ulick.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.De Rossa, Proinsias.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Michael.Hogan, Philip.

Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. a6 agreed to?

Mr. Quinn

No. a6 to be taken without debate, includes the Estimates for the Tanaiste's Department. I draw her attention to the fact that there was a picket on the building site of the new Leinster House offices this morning and allegations were made that workers were being forced to work on the site in breach of statutory regulations. Since we cannot have a debate on this Estimate, I ask the Tánaiste, through the Health and Safety Authority and other related agencies, to undertake an inquiry into this matter.

The Tánaiste

I undertake to do that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with the adjournment of the Dáil on Thursday agreed?

Mrs. Owen

It is not agreed. I ask the Tánaiste, before we agree to the adjournment of the Dáil tomorrow, to give an assurance to the House that the Minister for Justice will come to the House tomorrow and give us whatever information he now has following his inquiry into the irregularities which occurred in a case on 12 November 1998, given that the Dáil is about to adjourn and it will be, at the earliest, 20 April when the House meets again. By that time serious damage will have been done to our judicial process. We want to know what the Minister's role, the judges' role and the registrar's role were in this affair.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

I allowed the Deputy to ask a short question.

Mrs. Owen

With respect, sir—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should respect the Chair, for a change.

Mrs. Owen

One of the people mentioned in this irregularity is someone who was appointed by this Government as a member—

An Ceann Comhairle

I have allowed the Deputy to ask a question. The Deputy is now, once again, out of order. The Deputy has asked a question.

Mrs. Owen

I did not get an answer. Why did I not get an answer? Why will the Tánaiste not tell us if the Minister will come to the House tomorrow? I do not know what is going on on the Government side of the House. When I was Minister for Justice—

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Roche

When Deputy Owen was Minister for Justice a judge wrote to her twice and the letters disappeared.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for deal ing with the adjournment of the Dáil on Thursday agreed?

Mrs. Owen

No.

Question put.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Briscoe, Ben.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cowen, Brian.Cullen, Martin.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Flood, Chris.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.

Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael.Kitt, Tom.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Molloy, Robert.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Reynolds, Albert.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Wallace, Dan.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Ahearn, Theresa.Allen, Bernard.Barnes, Monica.Barrett, Seán.Bell, Michael.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Burke, Ulick.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.De Rossa, Proinsias.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Dukes, Alan.Durkan, Bernard.Farrelly, John.Ferris, Michael.Finucane, Michael.

Fitzgerald, Frances.Flanagan, Charles.Gregory, Tony.Hayes, Brian.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Michael.Hogan, Philip.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.McCormack, Pádraic.McGahon, Brendan.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.O'Keeffe, Jim.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William. Perry, John.

Níl–continued

Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.

Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Mrs. Owen

Will the Tánaiste arrange with the Whips for time for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to make a report to the House before we break for the Easter recess on at least the elements of this case which are relevant to his civil servants in the courts system and any details he can give us about the inquiry thus far so that we do not have to wait until 24 or 25 April for his report, which was promised in the Dáil last night? The Minister is responsible for the courts system and the civil servants. The civil servants have not yet been transferred to the new courts service, so the Minister should be able to call the county registrar to discover how this case came to be listed. He did not give that information to the House last night. Will he come before the House before we adjourn for Easter, to give the information he has?

Mr. Rabbitte

The Tánaiste's position, that the Minister should be allowed time to investigate, is reasonable. However, this family are constituents of hers and mine and I raised this issue with the Minister at the beginning of February.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should confine himself to questions.

Mr. Rabbitte

Has the Minister not been in possession of information about this case since then? Is that not adequate time to come before the House to make a statement on this important matter?

The Tánaiste

I am familiar with the case because, as Deputy Rabbitte knows, the family have been in touch with me. I said earlier that there was widespread concern, inside and outside this House, about what appear to be unusual procedures in this matter. The Government wants the two inquiries concluded as quickly as possible. The gardaí are carrying out an inquiry for the Minister and the President of the Circuit Court is conducting one for the Judiciary. I will talk to the Minister, who is in Northern Ireland. Deputy Owen and Deputy Rabbitte made reasonable requests about the matters which he could bring to the House's attention, should he have that information, and I will get back to the Deputies.

Mrs. Owen

The gardaí have no responsibility for the actions of the Minister's civil servants. The Minister can ask his officials in the courts system how this case was put on the list when there was no review date. We do not need the gardaí for that.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are now proceeding to debate the matter, which we cannot do.

Mr. Howlin

Lest we forget the request I made earlier, which the Tánaiste seemed to accept, the easiest way to get quickly to the full truth would be for the DPP's file, including sworn affidavits from all involved, to be put into the public domain. I would like that done today, if the Tánaiste could arrange it. This would address the concerns expressed by people inside and outside this House.

The Tánaiste

I have already given the Deputy an undertaking. As soon as the Order of Business is finished I will speak to the Attorney General to see if that is possible.

Mr. Currie

On promised legislation, will the Government make a statement before the recess about the IRA's promises concerning the bodies of the disappeared, particularly in view of the IRA's continuing cruelty in denying responsibility for at least seven bodies—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is making a statement. Will he ask a question?

Mr. Currie

I will. In an effort to end, at long last, the anguish of the relatives of the disappeared, will the Tánaiste confirm that a statement will be made to the House on this matter, in light of the IRA's denial of responsibility for seven bodies and its refusal to give relatives necessary information regarding the nine bodies for which it has accepted responsibility, to enable them to find those bodies?

The Tánaiste

As I said to the Deputy yesterday, we are glad that at long last, after 27 years in many cases, people who were brutally murdered will have their bodies identified with a view to allowing their loved ones to give them a Christian burial, if that is their wish. Deputy Quinn asked me yesterday about the nature of the legislation proposed, which will be similar to that for decommissioning and will come before the House after Easter. I do not think it is good practice for Ministers, Governments or Deputies to respond to statements from the IRA and other sources of that kind and I am not certain it would be helpful. The statement to the effect that the bodies would be identified should be honoured so that the families have the opportunity to bury their loved ones, as they so desperately require.

Mr. Currie

When will we see the legislation?

The Tánaiste

It will not be available until after Easter.

Mr. Currie

Will the Government make a statement of its intentions, before the recess?

The Tánaiste

The Minister made a statement. Other than what I am saying now, that we will introduce legislation along the lines of the decommissioning legislation, there is nothing more to say.

Mr. Currie

It is important that there be a statement in the House because the republican movement is getting away with a con trick on this matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is now making a statement.

Mr. Stanton

Does the Government propose to introduce legislation, as other European and world states have done, to limit possible litigation resulting from Year 2000 computer and other systems failure?

The Tánaiste

No legislation is promised and I am not sure what legislation has been promised in other countries. This matter has been raised in the House on many occasions, including Question Time last week. The Government has an active awareness programme on Year 2000 problems. If the Deputy wants me to be more specific—

Mr. Dukes

The Government has its own Y2K problem – it will self-destruct next year.

Mr. Quinn

On promised legislation, I draw the Tánaiste's attention to the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill, which refers to the national claims agency. The list of promised legislation advises that the Bill is not expected to be published until late 1999 which means, given current practice, that it will not be published until the middle of next year. In view of the critical importance of this legislation, which has been delayed, will the Tánaiste undertake to establish its exact status and let me know tomorrow?

The Tánaiste

I can tell the Deputy now. The proposals on that matter are currently on the Government agenda and will be dealt with at our first meeting after Easter. We must look at the NTMA's role in the context of EMU and the single currency and in that light there are proposals before the Government. We hope to give the Deputy more information when the House resumes after Easter.

Mr. Quinn

I trust the proposals are not to terminate the existence of the NTMA, which might be the wish of some people in Upper Merrion Street.

Mr. Dukes

Another Y2K problem.

The Tánaiste

The current and previous Ministers for Finance have their own views on this, which is not the same as that of their officials, and I am conscious of the different perspectives.

Mr. Quinn

The NTMA is one of the great successes of the State.

The Tánaiste

We want to ensure it is equally successful in the future.

Mr. Finucane

Before St. Patrick's Day I raised on the Adjournment the case to clear the name of Mr. William Geary, who lives in New York. When will the Cabinet discuss this matter? A Cabinet decision is required.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. Finucane

The man is 100 years old and time is of the essence. Why is the Cabinet procrastinating about making a decision? The Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for Defence have promised to look at the case.

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Minister of State, Deputy Brennan, know about the case? Could we refer it to the National Millennium Commission?

Mr. Dukes

No, we want something done about it.

Mr. Rabbitte

Did the Tánaiste decide to transfer the Rosenbluth teleservices factory from Tralee to Killarney at the behest of Deputy Healy-Rae? He gave a long interview saying this was the case.

The Tánaiste

I have been briefed about the ongoing debate on this matter on Radio Kerry. I assure the Deputy that Rosenbluth, which is the world's largest travel management company, did not look at a facility in Tralee. That was never on its agenda.

Mr. Quinn

Did Deputy Healy-Rae get it wrong?

The Tánaiste

More industry has been located in Tralee during the term of this Government than that of its predecessor.

Mr. Stagg

I doubt that.

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss industry on the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

I return to the legislation about which I questioned the Tánaiste yesterday and my colleague, Deputy Currie, asked about today. Is the Tánaiste aware that if this legislation is not introduced precipitously, the people whose relatives are going to be produced now cannot proceed to—

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot discuss the matter now. The Deputy is again out of order. She can ask only about the timing of legislation.

Mrs. Owen

Does the Tánaiste think this legislation will need to be introduced during the recess? We need to know that before we adjourn. Otherwise we are subjecting the relatives to wait until the legislation is in order—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is continuing to be out of order and should attempt to be in order.

Mrs. Owen

It is a valid question.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is in order to ask only about promised legislation. The question was asked yesterday and today and now the Deputy is asking for a third time.

Mrs. Owen

Is the Tánaiste aware that if there is a delay in passing the legislation it will lead to further distress for the relatives?

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Tánaiste wish to respond on the timing of the legislation?

The Tánaiste

Clearly, this is a sensitive issue and the Government wants to introduce the legislation as a matter of priority, but it cannot be done during the recess. Given that it is primary legislation, it cannot be done by regulation. It will be introduced as a matter of urgency.

Mr. Currie

We would be prepared to come back to put through that legislation.

The Tánaiste

We are aware of the sensitivities of the issue.