Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:1 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the meetings, if any, he has had in the past week with the leaders of Northern parties [10861/99]
Ceisteanna–Questions. - Northern Ireland Issues.
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:2 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has to meet or telephone the President of the United States; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10870/99]
John Bruton
Ceist:3 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the discussions or meetings, if any, he has had since 21 April 1999 with representatives of Northern Ireland's political parties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11007/99]
John Bruton
Ceist:4 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the discussions or meetings, if any, he has had since 21 April 1999 with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11008/99]
Joe Higgins
Ceist:5 Mr. Higgins (Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach the discussions, if any, he has had with the parties to the peace process in advance of the reconvening of talks. [11042/99]
John Bruton
Ceist:6 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent conversation with the Leader of the SDLP, Mr. John Hume, following the publication by Mr. Hume of his proposals to resolve the decommissioning deadlock in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11325/99]
John Bruton
Ceist:7 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the meeting or discussions, if any, he has had in the past week with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, or the leaders of the political parties in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11326/99]
Trevor Sargent
Ceist:8 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the discussions he has had in the past week with the leaders of the Northern Ireland parties; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11512/99]
Trevor Sargent
Ceist:9 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the discussions, if any, he has had with British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11515/99]
John Bruton
Ceist:10 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will provide details of his meeting this week with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11517/99]
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:11 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the discussions or meetings he has had with representatives of the political parties in Northern Ireland since 28 April 1999; if he will give his assessment of the prospects for progress in Northern Ireland on the basis of these discussions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11524/99]
Ruairí Quinn
Ceist:12 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his phone call last week with the Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11525/99]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 12, inclusive, together.
Following the meetings with the main parties I held jointly with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, the week before last, and our conference calls with the parties in Belfast, a round-table meeting was held in Belfast aimed at breaking the current impasse. This followed on meetings that had taken place on a bilateral and multilateral basis at official level involving the pro-Agreement parties. The two Governments and the parties explored a range of strategies about how to make progress. The talks, which were jointly hosted by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, and Minister Adam Ingram, were useful and all the parties are focused on the priority objective – the establishment of the executive.
I met the Sinn Féin President, Mr. Gerry Adams, last Saturday week and we subsequently spoke on the telephone. Mr Adams and I reviewed the situation with regard to how best to progress the implementation of the Agreement. I am satisfied the leadership of Sinn Féin remains committed to finding a way through the current difficulties on the basis of securing a sufficiently wide consensus.
It is important for people to continue to propose and explore different strategies for making progress and, in that spirit, John Hume's proposal has been helpful. I know the proposal has not found favour on all sides, but we have to work our way towards making progress through continuing dialogue and discussions and, hopefully, we will find a solution.
In the light of the discussions that have taken place, the Prime Minister and I decided to meet the parties in London tomorrow. We do not have one fixed strategy that we believe will be acceptable to the parties, but we are working on a range of ideas within which we hope there are some that will be conducive to moving matters forward. The implementation of the Agreement in full is the only way forward. All the parties are anxious that we move in the near term and it remains the position of the two Governments that the Agreement should enter into effect and the institutions be established with their full powers and functions at the earliest possible moment. We all need to concentrate on building the confidence necessary to retain the inclusivity of the process and to enable people to take the steps that are needed. We cannot afford to wait too long and let the support needed on all sides seep away. Our mandate for the implementation of the Agreement comes from the people and whatever happens in the days ahead, we remain totally committed to its full implementation.
I have no plans at present to contact President Clinton but close contact is being maintained with the United States Administration at other levels.
A number of questions arise, bearing in mind that 12 questions were taken together. In the meeting the Taoiseach had on Saturday week last with the President of Sinn Féin and the subsequent telephone conversation, did the leadership of Sinn Féin give any indication or outline any proposals it might have for overcoming the current impasse? Does the leadership accept there is an impasse? If it accepts there is an impasse, bearing in mind the suggestion made by John Hume, to which the Taoiseach already made reference in his reply, has the President of Sinn Féin, Gerry Adams, suggested to the Taoiseach, in the various meetings and conversations he has had with him since these questions were put down, a proposal for overcoming the impasse?
Sinn Féin and everybody else accepts there is an impasse; there is no debate or argument about that. Sinn Féin has put forward some proposals. I believe a range of proposals have been put forward. Sinn Féin's preferred option would be the setting up of the executive—
It cannot deal with that if it accepts there is an impasse.
—as soon as possible and perhaps those in Sinn Féin are working to build confidence and assure the other parties that they remain genuinely committed to fulfilling the Agreement as they see it and as the Agreement is written. They have no new proposal that deals with the totality of the problems of all the other parties, and that is what the two Governments have to try to find.
Have they expressed a view to the Taoiseach informally as to the desirability or acceptability of the proposal recently put forward by John Hume?
I discussed it because it was on that day that John Hume's proposal came into the public domain. I believe they discussed it before then and since, but I understand there was some contact with John Hume prior to that also. They find parts of it acceptable, as do others, but nobody finds the proposal as it stands acceptable. Meetings were held last week, as Deputy Quinn would know, in which they tried to bring this forward. As far as we are concerned, John Hume's proposal is one of the proposals that is still on the table. The Unionists, of course, have some difficulties with that too.
But Sinn Féin has not rejected it?
No.
Does the Taoiseach agree with the comments made by Martin McGuinness in the United States today that he believes the whole process is in jeopardy? Given that the Taoiseach is reported as rejecting the plan for the transitional executive put forward by the Northern Ireland Office, does he intend to bring proposals to Mr. Blair this week that he can outline to the House? What will the Government suggest in place of the Northern Ireland Office suggestion? Does the Taoiseach have any suggestion to get over this impasse?
Many ideas and suggestions have been put forward. I am not sure from where the NIO suggestion came the other day. That was not a proposal put forward in a range of proposals from the British Government; I am not sure of the status of that matter.
But the Taoiseach rejected it anyway?
It is not one of the ten or so proposals which the Governments have been working on so it is not open to discussion. We have two or three proposals into which we have put considerable work since Hillsborough. We have talked privately to the parties about these proposals and tried to move forward but it would be wrong to build up too much hope regarding these proposals.
The British Government also has proposals. The official level meetings which started today are trying to narrow the proposals to see if we can come up with one which bridges the gap, prior to the Prime Minister Mr. Blair or I joining the talks. Some of the proposals will be acceptable to the UUP and some to Sinn Féin. However, we have not been able to come up with a proposal accept able to all sides and that is what we must try to achieve.
Given that confidence building measures will, I hope, bring an end to this impasse, will the Taoiseach join me in commending the meeting which took place between David Trimble and Breandán MacCionnaith of the Garvaghy Road residents? This was a courageous meeting as Mr. Trimble, Bríd Rodgers and others had to run the gauntlet of appalling abuse. Will the Taoiseach commend Mr. Trimble for his actions? Does he intend to demand of Mr. Blair a full, independent inquiry into the murder of Rosemary Nelson?
I congratulate those involved in yesterday's meeting. The two Governments have been pursuing this initiative since Christmas. This was a brave move by Mr. Trimble because of the difficulties in his constituency and with the groups. We have always held the view that we will only make progress through dialogue. Yesterday's dialogue was constructive and useful.
Anyone close to the talks knows that the festering sore of Drumcree is contagious and spreads to the rest of the talks. We must attempt to deal with Drumcree before dealing with the overall talks. I am not sure how much is achievable but we must try. Like everyone else I would like to see an agreement on Drumcree based on dialogue. Feelings run very high in this area. I have met members of the community, all the public representatives from the area and members of the Orange Order. This initiative can lead to progress and I welcome it.
Last week I told the House that discussions were ongoing between the two Governments on the Rosemary Nelson and Pat Finucane cases. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy O'Donnell, met Pat Finucane's widow some time ago and received a copy of a report by the British human rights group into the allegations. The Department prepared an analysis of the report which is the subject of discussions between the two Governments. We continue to put forward our views on the Rosemary Nelson case. We have spoken to the families and the groups and what I said to the House in the past few weeks still holds.
(Dublin West): Does the Taoiseach agree it is the earnest aspiration of the majority of people in Northern Ireland, particularly those in working class communities, that the marching season passes without the awful tension, stand-offs and violence which characterised recent years? Working class communities suffer most in these situations. Will the Taoiseach agree there has to be compromise on all sides about the two conflicting rights – the right to parade and express one's culture and the right of communities not to be harassed and intimidated by unwanted parades? In light of the horrors in Kosovo, does the Taoiseach think that the right which should take precedence is the right of communities not to be thrust by sectarian extremists into horrific sectarian conflict, such as that which took the lives of the Quinn children and others last year? Does the Taoiseach have any news from last night's meeting between Unionist leaders and residents of Garvaghy Road and Portadown which might give an indication of what will happen as regards Drumcree and the Garvaghy Road this year?
Preliminary reports from last night's meeting indicate there was a good exchange of views with useful dialogue where people put their cases. There was no great resolution. However, I have always believed that it is good for people to talk and exchange views. Possibilities have been looked at by various mediators, including Frank Blair and three people who acted as intermediaries in last autumn's negotiations. The Parades Commission and other civil rights groups have looked at this in the past four or five years. As we move towards what is known in the North as the Drumcree Five, all of what Deputy Higgins said is true. We must ensure that we investigate every possible way of reducing sectarian tensions which always seem to unnecessarily permeate these marches.
The number of marches has grown dramatically in the past decade and there are now up to 3,000 marches a year. The vast majority of those marches pass off peacefully, not because there is no potential for trouble but because people go out of their way to develop community relationships. Civic, religious, political and community leaders meet with each other to try to ensure the marches pass off peacefully. In the past few years there have probably been about ten potential flashpoints. Both Governments, the NIO, the police force and others are trying to do all they can to get communities involved in constructive dialogue on these marches so an understanding can be reached. We saw how this happened last year in the Lower Ormeau Road and Derry where there were no difficulties. There is a basis for making progress, as the Deputy outlined, to try to decrease tension. A major part of that is finding a constructive resolution and having ongoing dialogue on the Portadown situation, which is the most difficult.
I was heartened a meeting took place between the First Minister, David Trimble, and the representatives of residents of Garvaghy Road. On the widely perceived impasse, has the Taoiseach contacted or does he have plans to contact George Mitchell in the light of his tantalising references to possibilities and hope for the future? Perhaps he would say more in private conversation than he would be prepared to say in public. In the meeting the Taoiseach had with Yasser Arafat, was there any reference to Northern Ireland and any comparisons in conflict resolution which might help us?
Has the Taoiseach had contact with Church leaders and does he see a role for them in broaching some of the difficulties in communication? Has thought been given to the requests which will be made to Deputies and Senators to visit as observers on the Garvaghy Road or any other place where the Nationalist community feels besieged and would appreciate some objective viewpoints? Does the Taoiseach think this would be helpful?
It is too early to comment on that. However, in other years I have been supportive of observers. Last year there were observers from the European Parliament who did much good in reducing tension. These matters should be communicated to the NIO and others so that they are not misinterpreted. That is the only possible difficulty, but it has not happened in recent years. We have not formed a view on what should happen this year. I hope the direct talks, which are the most meaningful, will make some progress in that regard. However, I will say something later on that if it is necessary.
I discussed Northern Ireland with President Yasser Arafat in a general way and updated him on the problems. I keep in touch with Senator George Mitchell. I discussed matters with him last month when I met him in Washington. He keeps in touch and has made some statements in the past day or two on his views on decommissioning and other matters. He remains helpful. I do not think his direct involvement is the issue at this stage, but he is very helpful and keeps in touch with many of the people he has got to know very well in the North, across all sectors of the community.
In reply to Deputy Sargent, the most positive aspect is probably the immense growing number of religious, community people, organisations and groups from the North coming to Dublin and twinning and building relationships with towns, chambers of commerce and sporting organisations around the country. These groups would not traditionally have set foot in the South on a formal basis. There have been some interesting inquiries from groups which did not inquire very much of Irish Governments in the past. The Minister, Deputy Andrews, might speak about that during the summer. There are really good communications and dialogues building up all the time.
The negative aspect is the people who were protesting yesterday, those who make life hell in Portadown and who continue to think there is another way of solving these matters. They are still there. We must continue to work with the majority to convince people to move away from that. However, matters generally are far more positive than negative, which is allowing the political leaders to make moves they were unable to make in the past.
I note the Taoiseach had a meeting with Mr. Adams and other party leaders recently. Did he discuss with Mr. Adams the modalities that have been agreed for decommissioning? The first modality is the transfer or hand over of arms and weapons, which all sides agree has proven very difficult and is unlikely to produce a positive dividend in the immediate future. Did the Taoiseach discuss with Mr. Adams the second agreed modality, which is the provision of information? Did he request from Mr. Adams the up to date position on the role of Mr. Martin McGuinness as liaison officer with General de Chastelain? Did Mr. Adams express any hope that, if there is not to be movement in the transfer of arms, there may be a glimmer of hope on the matter of the provision of information, which both Governments have accepted would, in effect, lead to real progress?
My second question relates to the Taoiseach's meeting with Mr. Blair. I refer the Taoiseach to an undertaking or promise made by the British Government last autumn that it would make a normalisation report on demilitarisation, which would be important in the context of confidence building. There is no sign of this report. Does the Taoiseach agree this report has become somewhat stalled, in the setting up of the executive?
There are three weeks to the deadline for implementing the changes to the Constitution passed by the people in the referendum a year ago. Is the Taoiseach considering extending that deadline in view of the current impasse?
The answer to Deputy Flanagan's question about the modalities is yes, both in terms of the modalities and the information. The Deputy answered the first part of the question himself in that the modalities are unlikely to lead to anything in the short term, although Sinn Féin will still be strongly committed to the date of April 2000 which is in the Good Friday Agreement.
On information matters, the word of the chairperson of the international commission on decommissioning, General Jean de Chastelain, is that the meetings with Martin McGuinness have continued and they have continued to be useful and productive. I cannot vouch for the information's accuracy, but General de Chastelain would have a firm view on what he is talking about and on his remit. I heard that stated a number of times in private conversation with him. The answer to the Deputy's question on that is yes, it has continued to be constructive.
The normalisation report was due to be released in the autumn. There have been many drafts as well as ongoing debate and discussion over the winter and spring. The answer to the Deputy's question in that regard is yes. It has become related to the setting up of the Executive. While the normalisation paper was not to be a part of the ongoing process, the issues in it would be central to making progress. The British Government would have concerns about putting forward everything while not knowing where things stand on decommissioning and other issues. While the Government does not necessarily subscribe to that, I can understand its point of view.
I try to progress the normalisation issue because it is important in itself. The Secretary of State, Dr. Mowlam, has taken some of the items in that paper and progressed them anyway. The occupation of the Crossmaglen Rangers Gaelic pitch for the best part of 30 years was one of those issues and it has now been dealt with. Removal of the army base from the pitch has commenced and commitments on the matter have been given to the President of the GAA and to local politicians. The publication of the report, however, is likely to get tied up with the other issues.
With regard to the Deputy's third question, we have started examining the constitutional position. Early June is the proposed date and if progress is not made over the next week or so, the Government must be prepared to bring a Bill before the House to extend the deadline. It is my intention to extend the period.
Will that mean legislation?
There has to be legislation.
It is 17 days from 22 May, the anniversary of the referendum. Will the Taoiseach outline what procedures he envisages? Will it require legislation or a simple motion? If legislation is required, by what date must it be enacted by the Oireachtas?
I do not have a note on that and if I am wrong I will correct the information. I understand the date is 3 June and that legislation, not a motion, will be required. The legislation must be passed by the Oireachtas by that date. Preparatory work has commenced.
Given that this is a multipartisan matter, when will the Opposition parties be given sight of the draft legislation?
As soon as I see the draft, I will ensure the Opposition is consulted.
When the Taoiseach is in discussions with some of the parties involved, particularly Sinn Féin and the Unionist Party, does he remind them that they are not simply talking about a document called the Good Friday Agreement, that they are talking about the Irish people as a whole, North and South, having expressed their determination in this respect and that we are not just requesting these bodies to implement the wish of the Irish people so expressed but demanding that they implement what the Irish people voted for?
Does the Taoiseach recall the words of one of the founders of the EU who said that when one is faced with a problem which seems insurmountable, the only thing to do is to change the context of that problem? Would he agree that this appeared to be attempted in the Hillsborough Declaration but that it requires more imagination now that a year has expired? Perhaps he should bear in mind the wise words of one of the founders of a successful experiment in the EU.
I agree with the Deputy and I am glad he acknowledges the Hillsborough Declaration was innovative and imaginative.
An exercise in imagination which deserves to be applauded.
I do not disagree. We tried it but perhaps it was too imaginative in some ways.
One cannot be too imaginative when dealing with Northern Ireland.
We must continue to try to find a resolution.
As regards the Deputy's point that the mandate for the implementation agreement comes from the people, that is what I stated in my reply. We are answerable to the people, whatever happens, and we remain totally committed to its full implementation. However, therein lies the problem. What the written word means for one side in terms of the implementation of the Agreement is different for the other side in terms of the interpretation of practical politics. The Hillsborough Declaration tried to reconcile what we understood were political realities with what we thought was a fair interpretation, as substantially documented in the Agreement. However, it was not possible to complete the circles in that document.
We have continued to explore this and to carry all the parties. One of the criticisms of the Hillsborough Declaration was that the smaller parties were not always part of the negotiations. We are trying to include them now. It is a slower process because we are trying to negotiate and keep everyone together. I appreciate their efforts and patience. At the same time, I would like to think that people would sign up to at least one of the many suggestions put forward by the two Governments which are not outrageous or unreasonable. We will try again over the next few days.
Could the Taoiseach tell the House if the broader question of security and defence has come up for discussion during any of his contacts? Given that Northern Ireland is part of NATO since 1949, has there been any discussion on the Republic of Ireland's future role in Partnership for Peace and on the possibility of co-operation between North and South and east and west in that context?
NATO, Partnership for Peace or broader security issues have not come up for discussion in any form in the years I have been involved in Northern Ireland.
We are trying to decommission not militarise.
The Deputy should open his eyes and see that it is already militarised.
We do not have to follow suit.
The Taoiseach may recall that during recent debates on the British-Irish Agreement and the implementation bodies, I expressed disappointment that we only discussed two of the proposals. As legislation had to be passed in the UK and Ireland to set up the implementation bodies, I suggested that a timetable should be drawn up for their phased implementation.
I ask the Deputy to put a question. It is not in order to make a statement.
I had to explain the background to my question. Has any consideration been given to drawing up such a timetable?
We will try to ensure that a schedule is drawn up for what we passed here. I will give the Deputy information on that if he contacts me.
The Taoiseach stated that more than 3,000 marches take place in Northern Ireland during the marching season. Has any consideration been given to having one day of commemoration of all events which would help to ease the tension during the summer and autumn in Northern Ireland?
There are not enough bands.
It might be a good day. I hope I am around to see it.