Breeda Moynihan-Cronin
Ceist:15 Mrs. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Public Enterprise the plans, if any, she has in relation to the future of the Great Southern Hotels Group; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [21771/99]
Other Questions. - Great Southern Hotels Group.
As Deputy Moynihan-Cronin will know – she was part of a delegation which made recent representations on this matter – the board of Aer Rianta submitted a report to me on 15 April last on the future strategic direction of the company in which they sought the authority to exit from the Great Southern Hotels in a manner determined through a consultative process with the relevant stakeholders. Over the past few months I have met and consulted with the staff of all the Great Southern Hotels. I advised them that my main consideration would be to find the right future for the Great Southern Hotels in a way that will be right for the staff and for the Irish tourism industry.
The board of Aer Rianta has retained Arthur Andersen consultants to examine all the options for the future of the Great Southern Hotel Group. It recently appointed Mr. Phil Flynn to act as facilitator with the trade unions as part of the process. As I said a couple of weeks ago, it is expected that this examination will be completed shortly and brought to Cabinet.
I thank the Minister for her reply. She is aware that consultants have been examining this matter for six months. At the meeting of the public enterprise and transport committee this morning, the Minister said the matter would be decided by the Cabinet within three weeks. As a decision is imminent, the Minister must have a clear idea of the direction the Great Southern Hotels Group will take. Will another body, such as CERT, be considered as a possible owner for the hotels, thus keeping them in public ownership? Will the Minister also take into consideration a motion passed at last month's SIPTU conference, stating the hotels should stay in public ownership. As SIPTU represents the majority of staff employed by the group, this represents an overwhelming percentage who wants the hotels kept in public ownership.
I have not consulted CERT. I was aware through media reports of the SIPTU debate and the motion which the Deputy says was passed. I hope that by the end of November the report on this matter, which would be part of the general Aer Rianta report, will be going to Cabinet.
The Minister is being extremely coy on this issue. Will the Minister confirm that she has prepared a memorandum for observations, which has been circulated to other Departments, which says that the Great Southern Hotel Group should be sold? There was a media leak to that effect last week in the Irish Independent. Having toured the eight Great Southern Hotels, all the Minister has to offer the staff is tea and sympathy, and precious little else.
No. They offered me tea, I did not offer them tea. Secondly, it is a lie; I have not circulated a memorandum to anybody about the matter. That is a total untruth.
For observation purposes?
No, absolutely not. The Deputy can make 40 requests under the Freedom of Information Act, but no memorandum has been circulated to anyone.
Has the Minister made up her mind on this?
Wait now, let me finish. The Deputy cannot make an assertion like that in the House when it is untrue. It is absolutely untrue. The Deputy can put in a Freedom of Information Act request tonight and I will reply tomorrow that, as of now, there is no memorandum circulating for observations to any Government Department on the Great Southern Hotels. This morning, when I gave my view on everything, other Members – not the Deputy – said I was wrong to do so. The Deputy cannot have it every way.
But what is the Minister's view?
I am keeping it to myself.
That is obvious. Her mind is made up.
Hopefully, at the end of November we will all know. Since the Minister has not made up her mind on the matter, will she approach CERT about this? Why is the Minister saying no to the option that the group could fund an investment from its own resources? We are all aware that Aer Rianta will not invest in the hotels even though they require such investment. The hotels are in a position to do it themselves and they could stay together under CERT as a public body. Will the Minister consider that option?
I may be wrong but I think the current chairman of CERT is also chairman of the hotel group. Is that correct? I think he is.
He is on the board, I think.
There is an interaction between the two. As the Deputy has put it to me, I will certainly approach CERT and see what its views on the matter are.
The Minister has been picking her words very carefully and deliberately. Will the Minister tell the House that she has made up her mind on this issue and that she is promulgating a proposal to sell off the Great Southern Hotel Group? Is that not the case?
I cannot say.
Is it not true that the Minister and her officials have now decided to sell the Great Southern Hotels, either collectively or separately?
To be quite clear, that is not true. There is no official document, nor have I seen one or put my name to one, promulgated by anybody, saying this is the case. I do not intend to give my opinion on the issue here.
Surely the House is entitled to information.
This morning when I deigned to give my opinion on everything, the Deputy said I was wrong.
The Chair has no control over the information imparted by the Minister.
The Minister knows more than she is saying. The Minister is deliberately concealing what has been decided. She is keeping her full feelings to herself. The point of question time is to elicit the Minister's views.
Surely the purpose of question time is to elicit information from the Minister.
The Chair has no control over the reply from a Minister.
I understand that and I am not criticising the Chair.
I have to rule that out of order now and we will now on to Question No. 16.
The Minister has information that she will not give to the House.
When I gave my opinion this morning, the Deputy said I was wrong.
The Minister knows what she is going to do and she is deliberately concealing it from the House. She knows that Great Southern Hotels are going to walk the plank, yet she is not prepared to tell the House. It is as simple as that. She is deliberately concealing form the House her full hand of cards.
I am asking the Minister to answer Question No. 16. Please Deputy Yates, you are being very disorderly.
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle is protecting the Minister to a degree that is unfair to the House.
I would ask the Deputy to withdraw the remark that the Chair is protecting the Minister.
It is unfair and out of character for the Chair.
The Chair has explained to Deputy Stagg that he has no control over the content of a ministerial reply.
We are not asking the Chair to have control over it. The Minister has now told the House that she has information.
No, sorry, I did not. It is a matter for Cabinet.
The Minister is refusing to give the information.
It is a matter for Cabinet.
I would ask Deputy Stagg to resume his seat and to withdraw the remark that the Chair is protecting the Minister.
I do.
Go raibh maith agat. The Minister will answer Question No. 16.
On a point of order, the question is legitimate. We asked what is the Minister's proposal but she is deliberately refusing to tell the House.
That is not a point of order, Deputy Yates. You are being disorderly and I would ask you to resume your seat.
I will in a moment but I want the Minister to tell the truth in this House in relation to what she intends to do. She is trying to avoid the flak and she will make a fait accompli in three weeks' time.
I am asking the Minister to answer Question No. 16.
Sound and thunder signifying nothing. That is exactly what all that is about.
Please Minister, I would ask you to obey the Chair.
We got no answer. We got no information from the Minister even though she has it. The Minister has the information but she is going to keep it to herself.
Please Minister, I would ask you to answer Question No. 16.
But I cannot answer it.
The Minister is playing ducks and drakes with the House. It is not thunder and bluster.
I would ask Deputy Stagg to resume his seat, please.
It is outrageous for the Minister to come here and tell the House she has the information, yet she will not give it to us. That is the job of this House.
The Deputy has made his point. I would now ask the Minister to answer Question No. 16.
Sorry, on a point of order, I must—
It is out of order, Minister.
The Minister is only too delighted to go on to the next question.
No, I am not. I would like to answer. There is such a matter as Cabinet, and Deputy Yates was a member of a Cabinet.
Yes.
One brings a matter to Cabinet.
I would ask the Minister to deal with Question No. 16.
The Minister prepared a memorandum. A sponsoring Minister reports a memorandum for Cabinet, and I want to know what we should be told.
I did not. The Deputy has told a lie in the House.
I did not. I am asking the Minister what memorandum she is bringing forward to Cabinet.
He did.
The Minister knows what she is going to do.
She is withholding information from the House.
I do not have the information.
The Minister does not have a Great Southern hotel in her constituency. I do.
I would ask Deputies Yates and Stagg to resume their seats. I would ask the Minister to deal with Question No. 16, please.
Asking us to resume our seats does not deal with the situation that has arisen here, which is unique. I have never seen it before. The Minister tells the House she has information and will not give it.
Deputy Stagg has made his point. There are other ways of pursuing this matter.
I wonder what they are.
We are now in Question Time, yet on the Order of Business you rule it out of order.
It is not acceptable for the Minister to come in here and say she has the information, when we have tabled valid questions, yet she will not give us the information.
Deputy Stagg, you know the options you have. You can call to the Ceann Comhairle's office. I would ask Deputy Stagg to resume his seat. The Deputy has been very disorderly. I am asking him for the last time to resume his seat.
The Minister has the information here but she will not give it to us.
Do you wish to leave the House, Deputy Stagg?
I do not.
Yes, well—
The Minister knows exactly what she is going to do. Last week, it was leaked all over the Irish Independent what the Minister was going to do. She has the Warburg Dillon report.
Will the Minister read out the reply to Question No. 16, please?
I am being asked for information that I do not have.
The Minister is being very disorderly.
This is not about information. It is about our right to ask questions in the Chamber and to get answers, when the Minister has the information available to her. She has actually made decisions and she will not tell us. She said she will not tell us.
I have asked the Minister to read out the reply to Question No. 16. If she does not wish to do that we will adjourn Question Time.
This matter is listed for the Cabinet in three weeks' time and the Minister knows what she is going to do.
She is actually—
It is my intention to adjourn Question Time if the Deputies wish to be disorderly.
—concealing information from this House. She has told us that she has the information.
I have not.
Deputy Stagg, you are leaving the Chair with no option but to ask somebody to leave.
The Minister said she is bringing a memorandum to Cabinet in three weeks.
She has given the information to the press, but will not give it to this House.
I would Deputy Stagg to resume his seat. Deputies should show some respect for the order and decorum in this Chamber. The Deputies have been totally out of order for the last ten minutes. They have made their point, but now there is repetition. I would ask the Deputies to show some respect for the House. If the Deputies do not want to show respect for the House, the Chair will be left with no option but to take action.
Could the Minister reply? On a point of order—
Please, Deputy Yates, the issue has been dealt with.
The Minister would have answered the question by now. We should allow her reply.
The Chair can only proceed to the next question.
If the Deputy makes one more disorderly remark, I will ask him to leave the House. This applies also to Deputy Yates.
I wish to raise a point of order.
The Deputy cannot raise a point of order at this stage.
I wish to make a point.
The Deputy will have to raise it some other way.
There is no other way open to me. We attempted to raise it this morning.
The Deputy cannot make a point of order. The Chair has ruled and I am now calling the Minister.
Allow the Minister to answer the question. What are her views?
We tried to raise the matter this morning and got nowhere.
If Deputy Stagg does not resume his seat, I will ask him to leave the House. It is as simple as that.