The Order of Business shall be as follows: No. 37a, statement on European summit in Lisbon, and No. 5, Children Bill, 1999 – Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 37a, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after 70 minutes and the statements shall be confined to the following Members who shall be called upon in the following sequence and the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the statements by the Taoiseach and the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case, and (ii) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes. Private Members' Business shall be No. 90, motion re broadcasting to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 37a agreed?
Before we agree to the timetable for today we should have an indication from the Government as to when it proposes to provide time for the Standing Order 31 motion on the collapse of transport services and the breach of the partnership agreement by members of trade unions which have only recently voted for it.
This breach of the industrial peace clauses of the agreement is a grave matter affecting partnership. I understand that 800 of the workers involved in paralysing the rail service are members of a trade union which only last week endorsed an agreement which clearly contains, in Annex II, Clause 11, a no strike clause. This is a serious matter. The Taoiseach should meet the relevant trade unions today to examine the standing of Annex II of the partnership agreement, of which Clauses 11 and 12, in particular, refer to industrial peace, in view of the breach of the agreement by one of the trade unions concerned. I hope the Taoiseach will address that matter, but also that there will be agreement to have this debate early rather than late in the day.
Under Standing Order 31, the time appointed is 7 p.m. but the House is free to agree otherwise. I would remind the House that Standing Order 31 is a motion to adjourn the House. If it is taken earlier, the House adjourns after the debate.
Do I take it to be a ruling, Sir, that the issue which was raised by my colleague, Deputy Stagg, and other Deputies, that is, the national transport strike, will be debated at 7 o'clock and that the Government, by its silence, has acquiesced to that—
Yes. It is to be taken at 7 p.m.
—and the sitting will be extended to accommodate Private Members' time later this evening?
No. It cannot be.
This is a motion under Standing Order 31 to adjourn the House.
Will Private Members' time be transferred to tomorrow morning?
If the House wishes to make other arrangements it is a matter for the House, but that is the position under Standing Order 31.
Let us not find ourselves in a procedural wrangle. People are not able to get to life-saving appointments with their medical consultants because the transport system is not conveying them to and from hospital at present. It is that serious. People will die if this continues. I hope that the Taoiseach will authorise his Whip to allow for an early debate, irrespective of what is set out in Standing Orders, on this subject before noon today by whatever possible means.
Not in Private Members' time.
If not by an adjournment motion, it should be done by some other motion. I ask that this be done in view of the fact that this is now the gravest possible threat to the working of the country but also to the lives of many sick people, who cannot get to their hospital appointments today and who need assurance that those hospital appointments will be preserved for them.
I reiterate that the motion to adjourn must be taken last. It is the last business of the day. The House adjourns afterwards.
The Government could agree.
I support the comments which have been made to this extent, that we do not expect the Government would sit on its hands and do nothing on this matter between now and 7 p.m. when this matter will be debated. We will be expecting progress to have been made by 7 p.m. on this issue.
Is the proposal for dealing with No. 37a agreed to?
The Taoiseach can hardly be surprised that this matter has been raised this morning. As he has no doubt reflected on the contingency of this motion being allowed, will he indicate when he we will take this debate? On the basis of a reasonable suggestion being made by the Taoiseach, we could agree to the Order of Business but we should hear the Taoiseach first.
Does the Taoiseach wish to comment?
(Dublin West): A Cheann Comhairle—
I call Deputy Quinn. I am allowing the Leaders of the two main Opposition parties only to comment at this stage.
On No. 37a, Statements on the European Summit, has the Taoiseach agreed to change the format and is he prepared to take a short question and answer session?
The Deputy is in order but maybe we should finish the other subject first.
To start with that one, as I said yesterday, this is the format which has always been used and it is the format which was agreed to. There are already about 20 questions tabled for Taoiseach's Question Time on the Lisbon Summit.
They have been ruled out.
What happens under our excellent rules is that they rule themselves back in order as soon as I speak.
That is pointless.
I do not set the rules.
I am only a simple fellow.
Let us have an orderly discussion.
I was asked yesterday to bring forward this debate. As soon as I agreed to bring it forward, people want to change the basis. "No" is the answer. There are parliamentary questions tabled and I will take them.
That is clear.
He was asked two things yesterday.
The answer on the motion under Standing Order 31, if people want to keep bending the rules, is that it is as per the order.
Yesterday I made a clear request on the basis that the traditional format of statements is unsatisfactory. The Taoiseach said that questions are taken at Question Time also and I agreed, but they have been ruled out of order because this matter is now being debated. It is not a question that the rules are set and cannot be changed – the Government can set the rules for Standing Orders in respect of how this matter will be dealt with. We made a fairly modest request that there would be questions and answers instead of a series of prepared statements, which we could effectively fax to each other and not take up the time of the House.
It is a long-standing procedure in accordance with Standing Order 34(6). I must put the question, that the proposal for dealing with No. 37a be agreed to.
I asked the Taoiseach a question, which he did not answer and which he wanted to answer. We do not necessarily need to have a vote on this, if we get a reasonable answer from the Taoiseach as to the timing of the debate on the collapse of the transport service. I think we will get that answer, but I do not know. Will this debate take place early in the day or at 7 p.m., which is too late?
7 p.m. is the precedent.
I know. The Taoiseach may make a proposal in that regard.
Private Members' time belongs to this party.
I again point out that this motion under Standing Order 31, no matter what time it is taken, will be the last item of business. The House will adjourn after it.
There is a precedent.
The Standing Order can be suspended and an alternative motion submitted.
Give the Taoiseach the floor. Then we must proceed with the business of the day.
Deputy Joe Higgins should resume his seat.
I am not too sure anybody wants to listen, a Cheann Comhairle.
Deputy Healy-Rae will not be able to get to Heuston Station.
At least he uses public transport.
Ministerial cars do not qualify as public transport.
A Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Bruton has asked me about Standing Order 31. The position on Standing Order 31 is that if it is allowed by the Chair, it is taken at 7 p.m. and then the House adjourns. Obviously that would not be satisfactory. To get over that and have an earlier debate, the Whip could introduce a motion so that we could have the debate earlier, a point with which the Government agrees, and then the House would resume its normal business of the day. That requires us setting out the times involved. If the House agrees, we will do that as soon as the times can be worked out by the Whip. I ask that this be agreed now because otherwise his order does not stand.
As you allowed Deputy Bruton to comment, a Cheann Comhairle, may I comment also? Public transport is at a virtual standstill. Dublin Bus drivers are on official strike in support of their 20% claim. Of course, what has exasperated the situation today is that other workers have taken unofficial secondary action in support of the Dublin Bus workers' claim. Iarnród Éireann permanent way staff have taken unofficial strike action despite the fact that no ballot has been held on a Labour Court recommendation for a 20% phased pay increase as part of a restructuring claim. They already have a restructuring claim which has been put forward by the Labour Court on which they have not bothered to vote but they have taken secondary action.
(Dublin West): If the Taoiseach will—
The Deputy is being disorderly. Deputy Higgins should resume his seat.
This is a matter of serious concern.
I now put the question. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 37a agreed to? Agreed. On the Order of Business, Deputy Bruton.
I have nothing to raise. The only matter worth raising is this matter.
Last Thursday the comments of the Taxing Master were raised in the House.
This matter was ruled out of order yesterday.
The Ceann Comhairle might allow me raise a point.
Briefly. I hope that what the Deputy is raising is in order.
If the Ceann Comhairle allows me continue he may find it is in order. Yesterday we were informed that the Taxing Master would be in contact with the Attorney General and the President of the High Court. Will the letter which was received from the Taxing Master be placed in the Library? There are reports in today's newspapers which purport to include part of that letter. Will the full text be deposited in the Library, given that the attacks by the Taxing Master were on the actions of the House?
I do not know whether that letter was sent to the President of the High Court or the Attorney General. However, I will check, and if it can be made available I have no objection to this being done. I think the contents of the letter are in the Government statement in any event.
When the Taoiseach is facilitating the House in this manner, will he also inform the House why the costs of the tribunal in the same case were only £50,000 while the costs of the plaintiff were £350,000?
That matter is not appropriate to the Order of Business. The Deputy should consider tabling a parliamentary question.
Is it the case that we will not see legislation amending the transport legislation of 1932 until such time as Dublin Bus unions accept competition as part of a productivity deal?
I call Deputy Penrose.
That question is entirely in order.
I have called Deputy Penrose. Deputy Gormley should resume his seat.
With respect—
I have called Deputy Penrose. The Chair decides what is in order, not the Deputy.
On a point of order—
Deputy Penrose. The Deputy is being disorderly and should resume his seat. It is not a point of order.
It is a point of order.
I have called Deputy Penrose.
I am asking about promised legislation.
The Deputy should resume his seat.
This is completely unfair.
That concludes the Order of Business.