Private Members' Business. - BSE: Motion (Resumed). – Dáil Éireann (28th Dáil) – Wednesday, 29 Nov 2000

Private Members' Business. - BSE: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Upton on Tuesday, 29 November 2000:

That Dáil Éireann–

recognising:

–the importance of the beef industry to the Irish economy both in terms of sustaining farm families and in contributing very significantly to the Irish export market;

–the need to continue the expansion and development of this key sector;

–the health benefits associated with grass fed Irish beef if included in a balanced diet;

noting:

–that BSE in animals has been conclusively linked to vCJD in humans;

–that the number of cases of BSE in Ireland continues to rise;

–that the safety of food for human consumption is a priority;

–that there is a lack of adequate facilities for disposal of BSE-infected animals;

calls on the Government to protect the integrity of Irish beef production and to ensure that instances of BSE and vCJD are minimised by implementing the following:

–compensate families of victims of vCJD;

–establish a trust for any future victims;

–introduce legislation to prevent the feeding of animal ruminant protein to any animals, including non-ruminants;

–undertake testing of all cattle intended for slaughter, for BSE;

–provide adequate and appropriate disposal facilities of BSE-infected animals;

–ensure that research into vCJD is adequately funded;

–carry out research to establish if sheep with scrapie-like symptoms are harbouring BSE;

–provide adequate education and training programmes for farmers, veterinarians, slaughter-house workers and butchers;

–undertake the communication of risk to the public and to assist in the interpretation of any information given.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

To delete all words from and including "calls on the Government" to the end of the motion and substitute the following:

"supports the Government's measures to protect the integrity of Irish beef production to ensure that instances of BSE are minimised by implementing the present stringent controls in Ireland to safeguard consumer health and to eradicate BSE from the cattle population;

supports additional measures being introduced as appropriate to further re-enforce consumer confidence;

–supports the policy of keeping the matter under review in the light of scientific developments."

–(Minister for Agriculture, Food

and Rural Development.)

Mr. Sheehan

I wish to share time with Deputy Connaughton. The motion tabled by Deputy Upton and the Labour Party is timely and highly commendable. It is of paramount importance that Ireland continues to present and sell on the world market a top class, disease free beef product. Our cattle and beef exports are a vital cog in our economy, hence the importance of a superb product.

There can be no shortcomings allowed in any section of our beef industry which would impede our efforts to maintain the highest possible standards. The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, the Ministers of State and the departmental officials must always be alert to the pitfalls which could be encountered by the industry if the highest degree of vigilance is not maintained. I wish to impress upon the Minister the necessity for him to maintain vigilance as far as possible.

Unlike other EU nations Ireland's beef industry is highly dependent on an export market. Therefore, only a top class, disease free product will suffice. It is most important that we maintain the highest possible standards of beef production, given that we have a population of 3.5 million and export over 75% of our beef.

Consumer confidence is of vital importance to the beef and cattle industry. We must strive to ensure that not only will Irish beef become the choice of housewives in Ireland, but that it becomes the choice of housewives throughout the world. We have the distinction of producing the most natural, top quality beef products in the world. We should capitalise on that and insist that every possible effort is taken to ensure BSE is eradicated as soon as possible from our cattle population. Irish farmers must strive to have their beef cattle finished for the market within 24 to 30 months of age. Baby beef production must be encouraged by the Minister and I appeal to him to introduce a special incentive scheme towards that end for those who produce baby beef, paid to Irish fatteners. The Minister should encourage the necessity of having all our beef cattle exported by the age of 30 months.

The Minister must insist that adequate facilities are put in place immediately to dispose of BSE infected animals. An incineration plant is probably the answer, but the Minister must make up his mind and not dilly dally. He cannot afford to play for time on this important matter.

Meat and bone meal is another problem. Ireland exports over 90% of meat and bone meal and it should not be beyond the capacity of the Minister to ensure the remaining portion of meal is also exported. He should be thinking positively and completely ban the use of meat and bone meal. Such provision was introduced through legislation by a former Minister for Agriculture, but it was never implemented.

Prevention is better than cure and drastic steps must be taken by the Minister to allay any fears among consumers. The Minister must be seen to take positive action on this crucial matter and must not be blinkered in any way in taking stern measures to combat any shortcomings.

Mr. Connaughton

I congratulate Deputy Upton and the Labour Party on bringing this timely motion to the House. I saw the worst news possible for farmers on the 6 o'clock news this evening, which brings me back to that terrible day in 1996 when the BSE crisis hit in Britain and we went down with the tide. The problem that time, as bad as it was, is not as bad as what has now happened because we are a beef exporting nation and the nations to which we export are now at the heart of the BSE crisis. It is one thing to try to export meat to a nation which can eat it, but it is extremely difficult to sell our beef when there is a 50% drop in our main markets. For the past three or four years we have been trying to get a grip on the continental market. The only button on our trousers was the Egyptian trade.

It is not an Irish question, but an issue for the entire EU. This will test the mettle of the EU which will have to implement the necessary testing and certification procedures which will allow countries such as Egypt to buy our meat. I have already spoken to a few farmers since 6 o'clock, and I know that many farmers are wondering if they will be able to sell cattle at all over the next few months. The Minister knows I am not overstating things as he was on this side of the House in 1996. The Minister and the Government must do everything possible to get Europe as a unit to work from tomorrow morning to convince consumers within and without the EU that we have a good product. The problem is that the perception is the product is not good. In fairness to successive Governments, we went to the trouble of slaughtering entire herds which had one BSE infected animal, something which is done by no other country.

We then ensured that carcasses of BSE infected animals were not buried on Irish farms, and I assume that is being addressed. I assume the issue of meat and bone meal will also be addressed. I am sorry I do not have more time as this is a most serious debate. Today's events in Egypt are most important. So far as the actual BSE test on carcasses is concerned, we have no alternative but to go down the road announced for cattle over 30 months. We are lucky to have the test. It is one thing to declare a country free of BSE, I do not know whether that can be done, but it is another thing to declare a farm free of BSE and it is hugely important to declare the carcase free of BSE so that people can say there is no BSE in the T-bone steak from that carcass – that is on the point of contact with the consumer.

The Minister can look forward to a winter of discontent because many farmers are on the brink of financial ruin due to loss of markets. This is all about certification, verification and everything we can do to ensure consumers worldwide believe that the cattle from Ireland and elsewhere are safe. We have had four years of painful experience of BSE controls. France and Germany stuck out their chests and told consumers they were BSE free and renationalised their markets at our expense. They have a different problem tonight. Their problem is our problem because we will expect their people to eat our meat.

From tomorrow morning onwards there is a huge responsibility on the Minister because there are at least 80,000 Irish farmers who will see this as the worst winter for many years.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Dr. Moffatt)

I wish to share my time with Minister of State, Deputy Davern.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Dr. Moffatt

Last night my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh, outlined the approach of his Department to controlling and eradicating BSE, to ensuring that the health of consumers is protected and assuring the quality and safety of our beef.

As the Minister indicated, this evening I will deal with the public health and food safety aspects of this issue. As the Minister of State with responsibility for food safety, my primary concern is public health and the safety of food consumed by the public. Therefore, with regard to BSE, I am concerned with the public health implications of this disease and any risk it poses to humans. The protection of the public's health has to be of paramount importance and it is only when the public has been reassured that its interests are being protected that consumer confidence will be restored.

Since 1996 we have been aware of a link between BSE in cows and Creutzfeldt-Jacob Disease, commonly known as CJD, in humans. CJD is a rare transmissible encephalopathy in humans and is the collective name for a group of diseases which cause progressive dementia and a loss of control of movement and balance. There are four main categories of this condition, including sporadic – classic – and new variant CJD or vCJD as it is known. Until recently, the overall global incidence of CJD was approximately one case per million per year. However, this has increased in recent years, with the increase most likely due to greater awareness and active surveillance, as well as improvements in diagnosis.

New variant CJD was first described in Britain in 1996. Clinically, these cases present at an earlier age and are different from classic CJD. The presenting features include behavioural disturbances followed by difficulties with balance and walking. The average survival is approximately 18 months, which is longer than in the case of classic sporadic CJD. Confirmation of new variant CJD is by post-mortem neuropathological examination. There has been one confirmed case of new variant CJD in Ireland. This individual had resided in Britain at the height of the BSE epidemic there.

Experimental evidence indicates that new variant CJD and BSE are caused by the same agent. Brain tissue from new variant CJD patients show similar features to animals experimentally infected with the BSE agent. In relation to the source of new variant CJD infection, the most likely explanation is the ingestion by humans of BSE contaminated food prior to the implementation of the ban on specified bovine offals infected with the BSE agent.

Since taking office, this Government has attached particular importance to the issue of food safety in general and the concerns of consumers in particular. As Minister of State with special responsibility for food safety, I was particularly pleased to oversee the passage of the Food Safety Authority of Ireland Act through the Oireachtas. This legislation provides the framework for the current and future management and development of food safety here. The authority is a statutory, independent and science based agency reporting directly to the Minister for Health. It was formally established on 1 January 1999.

In July 1999 responsibility for ensuring the enforcement of all food safety legislation was transferred to the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. The powers attributed to the authority include those available under all existing food safety legislation as well as additional new enforcement powers.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland operates by means of service contracts with the agencies currently engaged in the enforcement of food safety legislation. The agencies must provide the resources for the implementation of the service contracts. These agencies act as agents of the authority in the performance of their contracts and the authority has published details of these contracts, including resource provision. It may publish reports on any matter related to its remit and functions and in particular it must publish an annual report which will be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. These arrangements are designed to ensure a much greater degree of transparency and information about food safety generally and the operation of the control system. It is generally acknowledged that the Food Safety Authority of Ireland has already had a profound effect on raising the consciousness of producers, retails and consumers alike, of the need to and benefits from making available high quality, safe food products.

The Act also provides for the establishment of a scientific committee to assist and advise the board of the Food Safety Authority of Ireland in relation to matters of a scientific nature and such advice may be published by the board. Much of the work of the scientific committee is conducted by means of sub-committees and the Food Safety Authority of Ireland has established a scientific sub-committee specially looking at BSE. This sub-committee is chaired by Professor Michael Gibney who is chair of one of the EU advisory committees on BSE. The focus of this committee is to keep the authority informed of all the new scientific information and also to undertake risk assessments and advise on risk management strategies on BSE and food safety. For example, my Department recently sought the observations of the Food Safety Authority of Ireland on the Philips report on the BSE inquiry, recently published by the UK Government, and this report is being examined by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland's BSE sub-committee.

Under the service contract arrangement the Food Safety Authority of Ireland is developing a seamless inspection service from farm gate to the point of sale to consumers as in the past the inspectorate was fragmented across several agencies. This will ensure that there are no gaps in the continuum of consumer protection from farm gate to the point of sale to consumers. I am aware of the considerable work carried out by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland in relation to the meat sector, which has been treated as a priority in the first year of operation.

All food safety inspections are now co-ordinated by the Food Safety Authority of Ireland under a contractual arrangement to develop a service where all the multi-disciplinary professionals are working together with a focus on maximum protection for consumers. We need to continue to further develop an efficient and effective inspectorate. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland advises that the controls on plants producing meats for the home markets needed improvement to be equivalent to those in export plants. Action is being taken to improve compliance across the board.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland in conjunction with the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development has just completed the first phase of screening programme for all cattle over 30 months using the ENFER test. It has completed a pilot testing programme of 1,000 older animals entering the food chain with no positive results. As Deputy Upton noted last night, it is never possible to prove a negative. The EU Commissioner with responsibility for health and consumer protection has stated that no member state can give a guarantee that its beef or any other food can be zero risk rated in relation to infection. Zero risk does not exist and the consumer must be so informed. However, this screening programme, which will be in place in early January, will be a significant further risk reduction measure.

The presence of BSE in our national herd is a problem we must face and with which we must deal. The fact that the cases are confined to older animals is encouraging but it is still a worry. The younger animals which have not eaten meat and bone meal are as safe as any beef has been in the past. Having effective traceability systems that can identify these animals at the point of sale to the consumer is welcome. The current ENFER test for screening older animals is an additional consumer protection measure. We need to be confident that meat and bone meal and tallow are dealt with appropriately.

While the developments in food safety at national, EU and international levels are welcome, legislation and policy changes alone will not guarantee the safety of our food. This is as relevant to the issue of BSE-CJD as to other food safety issues. A guarantee of safe food for all is a shared responsibility and in protecting the food chain from farm to fork, Government, industry and the consumer must each play their part.

The Food Safety Authority is working with industry to ensure food safety is an integral part of all food business in Ireland. Responsibility for producing safe food rests with the industry and it must take initiatives to ensure every precaution is taken to protect consumers and that their staff are well trained and fully aware of the risks. The Food Safety Authority is encouraging training for all key personnel and a number of training initiatives are under way in the red meat sector.

The Food Safety Authority of Ireland is currently involved with FÁS in implementing an extensive training package for abattoir workers in the various sectors. The first sector is the red meat slaughter. A series of modules have been produced. A "Train the Trainers" course was run at UCC, followed by a pilot training programme in four selected export abattoirs. This pilot phase has recently been completed and certificates have been awarded to those participating. Lessons learned from the pilot are now being incorporated into the pilot course and the course will be offered to all export abattoirs in the new year. As part of this initiative, the authority has engaged UCC to develop a similar programme covering the various food safety elements for the local authority abattoirs.

As well as the activities of the Food Safety Authority targeted specifically at food safety, my Department has also undertaken other initiatives in response to the emergence of CJD. In September 1996, in order to be in a position to respond rapidly and in an appropriate manner to the issue of CJD, the Minister for Health and Children established a CJD advisory group, under the chairmanship of Professor William Hall of the virus reference laboratory in UCD. The other members of the group are drawn from experts in the fields of veterinary neuropathology, haematology, infectious diseases, science, public health and food safety. This group's function is to advise the Minister for Health and Children on all issues relating to CJD and to provide advice to the Minister on particular or specific issues referred to it from time to time.

The terms of reference of the CJD advisory group are as follows: surveillance of CJD in Ireland, including active surveillance, diagnostic criteria and mechanisms for data collection and timelessness of data; assessment of the scientific developments, both national and international, with regard to risks to public health concerning BSE-CJD, including risks from occupational exposure, food safety, use of pharmaceuticals and transmissibility; the provision of advice on research strategies for BSE-CJD, including an assessment of the retrospective study of CJD, genetic mapping and the link to CJD and maximising the opportunities for international collaboration, including EU, Biomed and the World Health Organisation; the provision of advice to the Minister for Health and Children and the presentation of information to the media and to the general public on BSE-CJD. The group meets approximately six times per annum and has to date provided advice on risk management strategies in relation to transplants, blood transfusions, vaccines and medical instrumentation. The Department of Health and Children and other medical experts are also represented on the BSE advisory group set up by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development.

Surveillance of CJD is a priority in order to establish the true incidence of the disease and to determine any changes in the pattern or nature of its occurrence. From the Food Safety Authority point of view, everything that can be done is being done at present. We will continue to monitor the Irish, European and world scene to make sure we are doing everything possible in relation to this issue.

Mr. Quinn

Does that mean the Minister of State will accept the motion?

Dr. Moffatt

A few matters on the motion may be extraneous to this issue.

Mr. Quinn

Then the Minister of State is not doing what is necessary.

Dr. Moffatt

Not necessarily. Some issues in the motion have nothing to do with the Food Safety Authority.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk)

Remarks must be directed through the Chair. The Minister of State, Deputy Davern, does not have as much time as was originally intended.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development (Mr. Davern)

I welcome the opportunity to discuss this question and I wish to say something about a statement which was made here last night. An allegation was made that the Department, Minister and his officials are not concerned for consumers. It has been emphasised in the past number of years that consumers are considered a priority and I want to defend the Department in that regard. I am sure we are all agreed that in dealing with the serious issue of BSE, our primary concern should be for the health and safety of the citizens of Ireland, other EU countries and Third World countries to which we export our produce. There are also very serious economic issues arising for this country. My colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh, has already dealt with a number of these issues in his contribution. Developments today create further difficulties and these will have to be addressed.

It is very important that we retain a sense of perspective in dealing with this issue. Clearly the best way to ensure that the health and safety of our citizens is protected is to base the measures we adopt on the best scientific information available and to enforce such controls. Measures based on instantaneous reactions to the latest media information will not serve to protect consumer health. Successive Governments of all persuasions have taken a responsible approach in dealing with BSE and we must continue to work together to ensure that the measures taken to deal with the problem are based on the best scientific evidence available.

This is, of course, the basis on which Irish and horizontal Community measures have up to now been developed. The knowledge that this is so gives Irish and indeed other European consumers every reason to have confidence in the methods adopted to assess the risks arising from BSE and in the measures adopted to address these risks. It is on this basis that we will approach the additional measures that have been proposed by the European Commission today arising from the deliberations of the EU's scientific steering committee.

In this regard, it is extremely important to continue to assure consumers that we are confident that the proper application of the horizontal measures already adopted within the Community, including those in relation to the use of meat and bone meal, and the banning of SRMS, provides a sound basis for protecting public health. In addition, the geographical risk assessment adopted by the scientific steering committee of the European Commission earlier this year provides a reasonable basis, founded on scientific principles, for assessing the risk in member states and for developing appropriate policies to combat this risk.

The conclusions of the geographical risk assessment in relation to Ireland are particularly reassuring. Ireland is a low incidence country and its system for the control of BSE is optimally stable. In other words, the measure adopted in relation to control of meat and bonemeal and to eliminate specified risk materials from the human food and animal feed chains are being effectively applied in Ireland. Very few countries have attained this level of stability and I am satisfied the endorsement of our system by this type of independent scientific body provides a sound basis for consumer confidence in our beef. This rating for Ireland was not achieved without a degree of pain and cost. I compliment everyone who co-operated in that process. European countries now regard our system as the one they should have introduced.

As Minister of State with responsibility for rural development in a nation for which the agricultural industry is a central part of its economic and cultural identify, I am acutely aware of the need to ensure that consumers have confidence in our produce. It is for this reason we supported the Commission proposal for additional testing for BSE. I applaud my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development, Deputy Walsh, for the swift and decisive action he is taking to supplement the existing comprehensive range of controls in Ireland by expanding the active surveillance programme for BSE in advance of any Commission requirement to do so.

In Ireland we had already, since May 2000, embarked upon a programme of active surveillance for BSE, in anticipation of the horizontal application of such measures across Europe from 1 January 2001. This programme is supplementary to, and complements our existing range of controls which includes the culling and destruction of all herd and birth cohorts of animals infected with BSE, the removal and destruction of SRMS from all bovine and ovine animals and a comprehensive and effective range of measures which ensures that ruminants can not be exposed to rations containing meat and bonemeal.

I am confident these measures have been applied effectively and that consumers in Ireland have every reason to share that confidence. The Minister's proposal to expand the testing regime can only serve to provide further reassurance to consumers in Ireland and across Europe that the beef they and their families eat is subject to the most rigorous controls and every effort is being made to ensure the food on their tables is of the highest quality.

I assure the House – and this point has already been confirmed by our French colleagues whose active surveillance programme began in June of this year – that the delivery of a programme of testing of the kind now proposed by the Minister is an enormous logistical task. Its successful implementation will require the co operation of all those involved in the beef industry and I am pleased the reaction to date from farm bodies has been extremely positive and responsible.

This testing will be additional to the extensive control and eradication measures we already have in place. In particular, we will continue with the depopulation of herds and the removal of cohort cattle where a case of BSE is confirmed. It has been suggested that this approach is not scientifically justified. However, it remains the position that we still do not fully understand BSE transmission routes, the depopulation policy is widely accepted internationally and it has served us well on a number of fronts. It is of interest to note that in the UK more than 90% of BSE cases this year were in herds which already had a previous BSE case.

A number of Deputies have alluded to the issue of disposal. I was glad to hear Deputy Sheehan advocating incineration. I hope he can find a suitable site in his constituency for an incinerator and oblige us with it.

Mr. Stanton

This matter is too serious for playing politics.

Mr. Davern

Incineration is a central issue. I am glad some Deputy had the courage to propose it.

Mr. Penrose

I made that proposal last night. Several Deputies made it.

Mr. Davern

I was not present for that part of the debate. I heard Deputy Sheehan make the suggestion this evening but I am accused by Deputy Stanton of being political. I would not wish to touch on Deputy Stanton's jealousy of Deputy Sheehan's proposal.

A number of Deputies also alluded to the question of burial of BSE suspect animals which has been well aired in the media in recent weeks, particularly in light of the incident in Galway where an animal was disinterred. Swift action was taken to avoid a repetition of this type of incident and the carcases are currently being kept in cold storage until a more permanent solution has been found. We are well aware – and the Minister has publicly acknowledged on a number of occasions – that this is not a satisfactory long-term solution. What has emerged in the course of the debate on this motion is an all-party consensus that an incinerator is required as a matter of urgency, to deal with this problem and the problem of disposal of animal waste generally. I fervently hope the level of consensus apparent in the House over the past two nights is reflected on the ground when these matters fall for decision at local level.

A number of lessons must be learned from recent events in Europe and taken forward to develop a coherent set of policies to deal with the BSE problem. Reaction to developments in relation to BSE needs to be based on a rational analysis of the situation based on the best scientific principles; measures to tackle the problem should, if possible, be agreed on a horizontal basis at European level and unilateral action by individual member states which is likely to give rise to disproportionate consumer and market reaction, should be avoided if at all possible; and measures adopted at European level must be properly implemented by member states.

In this regard, the evidence available in relation to Ireland is that the enhanced controls introduced in October 1996 in relation to the licensing and control of meat and bonemeal, and in February 1997 in relation to the exclusion of specified risk materials from human food and animal feed, have been properly and effectively implemented. Such effective controls have not been introduced or enforced everywhere to the same degree and this is primarily responsible for the reactions to recent developments in other member states . The Commission's proposals from today's meeting relate both to additional consumer assurances and market aspects. We will participate in the negotiations on these proposals in a constructive way with a view to providing the necessary safeguards to consumers. It is certain that additional market measures will also be required in the short-term and I am pleased that this aspect is included in the Commission's proposals. We will seek to ensure that the measures adopted take full account of our unique situation.

I commend the motion, as amended, to the House.

Mr. B. Smith

This debate is a timely one and there is clear consensus in the House in relation to the seriousness of the issue and the primacy of consumer health related issues. While acknowledging the serious effects on the beef industry and the national economy, of the current crisis of confidence among beef consumers in Europe and elsewhere, Deputy Walsh has detailed the many measures taken by successive Governments to control and eradicate BSE and the systems put in place have withstood the most rigorous scrutiny from a variety of international bodies whose focus ranges from science to market issues. In particular, a range of very stringent controls in relation to the manufacture, possession, sale and use of meat and bonemeal have been introduced. These were all designed to facilitate enforcement of the ban on feeding this product to ruminants and to prevent cross-contamination.

The doubts recently expressed regarding the efficacy of animal feed controls in other member states do not apply in Ireland where the enhanced regime introduced in 1997 has been endorsed by a range of international bodies. The policy of culling herd mates and birth cohorts of BSE infected animals was a far-sighted initiative and these measures, together with the feed measures, have served to protect both consumers and markets.

Despite all of this, recent events in France, the unilateral measures taken by Spain, Austria and a number of third countries, together with the discovery for the first time of BSE cases in Spain and Germany have given rise to a serious crisis in consumer confidence in Europe which is having a severe impact on markets for Irish beef and livestock.

Mr. Power

I hope, when I arrive at the gates of heaven, that Deputies Moffatt and Davern are not on duty with Saint Peter or I will never get in.

Mr. Quinn

If the Deputy votes against the amendment, he will not get in – he can bet his life on that.

Mr. Power

After the announcements from Egypt, we realised the extra pressure on our industry.

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development last night gave details of BSE and when it was first confirmed in 1989 when we had 15 cases. That will increase to approximately 140 cases this year. We have not detected any animal under two years old with the disease. Generally speaking, we are talking about cows which are four or five years old or even older. While the problem is serious, we should not exaggerate it. When we compare the figures in England to ours, we will realise that a small fraction of animals in this country have BSE.

I compliment the Minister on the measures introduced to deal with the problem. If there was a similar strategy across Europe, the problem would not be as severe as it is. EU member states are being asked to increase their efforts in a campaign against the mad cow disease by adopting a ban on feeding meat and bonemeal to any animals, including poultry and pigs. The EU Commission is also proposing a ban on all cattle over 30 months from the food chain unless previously tested for BSE and cleared. That is very important. From an Irish point of view, we will have no problem complying with these measures.

I have some reservations about the purchase for destruction scheme but if that is what is required to reassure the customer, they are the types of measures we will have to take. At the end of the day, the consumer is the most important person in this equation and it is important that consumer fears are allayed. Farmers are not the cause of the problem but, unfortunately, they have had to pay a big price for it. At European Union level they are talking about limited intervention, but I think open intervention will have to be introduced to deal with the drop in price farmers are experiencing.

Acting Chairman

I think the Deputy has reached the gates of heaven. His time is up.

Mr. Power

I compliment our Commissioner, David Byrne, who is dealing with this problem. He is like a breath of fresh air and has dealt with this in an open and honest manner. He said dur ing the week that it is not possible to label beef BSE free but that it is important to explain to the customer the risks and the stringent controls we have in place.

Acting Chairman

In the next speaking slot, we have Deputies Penrose, McManus, Sargent, Farrelly and Deenihan.

Mr. Penrose

I am glad to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate tonight. I compliment my colleague, Deputy Upton, on the way she presented this motion. She made an excellent and considered contribution last night. It was an outstanding and illuminating critique of the problems associated with BSE and how we might handle them in the future. She demonstrated the opportunities which would arise for us to take positive action which would complement they very positive action we have already taken in this regard, and I acknowledge that. However, further action needs to be taken.

I call on the Minister, as a wise and seasoned politician and as somebody who knows this trade inside out, to withdraw the amendment in the interests of uniting the House tonight. Commissioner Byrne, a legal colleague of mine, who is now the EU Commissioner in this area and is no doubt a very eminent man, brought forward a number of other measures today. It is incredible that the Minister will vote against this motion tonight and that next Monday and Tuesday he will go to Europe – we sent him our good wishes today at the committee – and accept the central thrust of Commissioner Byrne's proposal, the abolition or banning of meat or bonemeal for ruminants and non-ruminants across all species. The Minister will have to accept that – it is a temporary ban. We have shown the lead for four years and Europe is now following. Let us lead on and show by our actions here tonight that we know what it takes.

We got a bit of a body blow this evening – I refer to the 150,000 tonnes. Egypt is a very important market for us. What has happened in the western European countries has obviously impacted on the market. The Minister will send people to Egypt and I have no doubt he will be successful because we will be able to show them what we have done. Acceptance of this amendment would be an added bow to the Minister's armoury. If there are elements which have financial implications, let us go back to the Minister for Finance. The Minister should accept the central thrust of the motion.

We all know about disposal. I fully agree with the Minister of State, Deputy Davern, and there cannot be any doubt that there will have to be a national incinerator for veterinary products and products of that nature. This will have to be dealt with. There is also the issue of fallen animals. We will deal with 130 to 140 carcases in BSE terms by the end of the year. That is an important aspect. When we ban meat and bonemeal, and not if, we will have 140,000 tonnes. We export 95% to 99% of that. What will happen? This will be banned in other European countries. They will tell us we cannot leave this problem on their door step and they will ban it. They will tell us to deal with the 140,000 tonnes at home. We are all seasoned politicians and reasonable people. This is a national issue and it is more critical to us than any other country in Europe or the world in terms of its contribution to our gross agricultural output and our GDP. That is the kind of thing with which we will be faced.

The Minister of State, Deputy Davern, quite rightly said the consumer is king and we have to instil consumer confidence not just here, but across the globe. Globalisation means people know within seconds what we are doing through the Internet and so on. If we do this, we will send a clear signal about where we are going and what we are about. We will add to an existing layer which Deputy Upton acknowledged last night. If one animal is affected, the Minister is right to take out the whole cohort of animals affected. Anybody saying anything to the contrary does not understand the depth of the problem. That was a proper measure, although it was costly. Other countries would have been better off if they had done what we did.

The way we deal with SRM is a very positive thing. I am not here to criticise. As the Minister knows, I have been constructive on many occasions in this matter. I call on him to go the full hog as they say in our part of the country where this is very important. As the Minister knows, the midlands and Westmeath is at the heart of beef production. This problem is hitting home and it will pulverise a county in which there is 82% cattle production. It is the hub of beef and winter fatteners. Some people used to say I defended the dog and stick crowd. They are the people who are important in this. The Minister heard from his constituency colleague about Bandon Mart this morning. The people who grow winter fatteners, who are as good as the people in the live trade, were down there competing. They paid too much, I agree, but, nevertheless, they are the people about whom we have to worry at this stage. The 10p reduction means that they lost £80 to £90 per head as a result of this scare which was not of their making or of this country's making.

Nationalisation was another obstacle we had to face. This homogeneous concept of a level playing pitch was for the birds – it is aspirational Utopia-type stuff. We had nationalisation and re-nationalisation and our farmers lost out. Other countries poured money in and filled pot holes that appeared in the agri-industry and we were still the good Europeans. We have been good Europeans but sometimes we have to take the initiative. We have to do something for those farmers who are losing £80 to £90 per head. It is a critical factor in the compensation issue. A fellow with 50 or 60 winter fatteners will lose £5,000 or £6,000. That is a great deal of money to a family. It might not sound much but it is when one has virtually nothing. It is so important that we cannot ignore it. Next week at the EU Council of Ministers the Commissioner with responsibility for food safety, David Byrne, will propose a temporary ban on all meat based animal feed in the European Union to help combat the spread of mad cow disease. He will also propose that all cattle aged over 30 months be excluded from the food chain unless they are tested for BSE.

Thankfully, no animal under three years has been affected. Those affected are pre-1996, when we took action. However, there can be accidental cross-contamination. There are 18 licensed people in the pig industry using meat and bone meal as an ingredient; that is less than 1%. We have nothing to lose. It will not add greatly to the cost of the compound or rations. We must go there and show the way.

There is an opportunity to have integrated beef production and for Irish farmers to go down the road of having two and two a half year old beef production. The day of the three and a half year old bullock is gone. I still have some but they will have to go. If not, we will lose a glorious opportunity to sell beef.

Deputy McManus has much more to say than I have, but cattle testing must be introduced. The ENFER test which has been operating since 1997 is worthwhile. I was a meeting of farmers last night in Longford, a neighbouring constituency – we will have candidates standing there the next time. The farmers were delighted to hear of the test and want it to be introduced. I compliment my colleague who raised this matter on the Adjournment and also raised another issue last week. I compliment the farming organisations on being positive and supporting this. The Minister took it on board. Constructive opposition is no harm. I urge the Minister, as a sensible man and one with whom I have had many dealings, none of which was antagonistic but constructive, to withdraw this amendment and have a composite motion that will reflect the wishes of the House and be good for the country in the long-term.

Ms McManus

I would never claim to have more to say than Deputy Penrose nor to be able to say it so eloquently. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. I, too, congratulate Deputy Upton on her concise, well informed and well thought out speech last night.

It is very difficult to understand why the Minister, on behalf of the Government, is refusing to accept this motion. The Government amendment is disturbingly minimalist. Its effect is to emasculate the important and timely protection presented in the body of the motion which is designed to allay fears, protect the public and our beef industry.

Today the EU Commissioner, David Byrne, who was appointed by this Government to his post, stated he intends to institute a EU wide ban from Monday and will be seeking the support of the Council of Ministers on the feed issue. This is included in our motion. The point has been made that the Government should adopt this now and give an indication of good faith. The EU Commissioner will have a hard task implementing this ban. He is dealing with a variety of countries with different cultural attitudes, medical and agricultural practices. By comparison, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development has a relatively easy task in terms of accepting this motion and putting down indicators that he means business, is taking a long view and is giving a lead. It is an opportunity for him and it a great pity he is unable to grasp it. I ask, even at this late stage, that he take the opportunity to have unity in the House on this matter.

Mr. Quinn

Hear, hear. Absolutely.

Ms McManus

In his speech he pointed out the growth in BSE and the fact that, as recently as 1998, a total of 15 cases was confirmed and so far this year the total detected stands at 120 more. He made a curious point on which I challenge him. He stated that he could not understand how any experienced Member of this House could come here and talk about food safety matters being matters for the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. He refuses to accept that there is an inextricable link between food production and food safety that transcends Departments. That is a difficulty and criticism he must take on board. Territorial demarcation or turf wars between Departments is the last thing we need in tackling such an important issue of public health. It is a health issue but that has a bearing on agriculture, food production and rural development. They must be tackled in a comprehensive and cohesive way rather than setting up lines of demarcation as if somehow that will help in dealing with the issue.

Agriculture and beef production is a major feature of our economy. Thousands of people and communities depend on it for their livelihoods. If only for that reason alone the Government should not be doing the minimum but leading the way in the European Union. We should be the pathfinders in implementing progressive and precautionary safeguards. Instead we see obstacles, foot-dragging and a watering down of a motion that has been extremely well put together and deals with all facets of the issue. We presented this package and ask the Minister to take it on board.

The Government's failure to face up to what is required has economic implications but, more importantly, implications for health and human life. There is every likelihood, if the Government persists along the road it is taking, that in years to come it will be the subject of investigation by some tribunal. How this Government deals with the BSE issue and the terrible threat of new variant CJD should be judged as if it were the subject of a tribunal. The reality is that is how it will be judged some time in the future. That must be taken on board in deciding on this motion.

We are debating this issue against the background of the Lindsay tribunal which is investigating the lives and deaths of a cohort of Irish people who deserved the very best medical care and who instead received contaminated blood products that destroyed their health, in many instances, and their lives in some. The stories of the haemophiliacs who suffered such terrible injury are, at times, almost impossible to take in because of the extent of their tragedy and heartbreak. These are the victims of a profound failure by the State to protect and safeguard the health and lives of such vulnerable people. Even when the tribunal was being set up, obstacles and obfuscation were the characteristics of the Department of Health and Children in dealing with outstanding issues and legal representation. People who were doomed to die were forced to wait because the Department could not deal with their outstanding concerns. It is as if the Government learned nothing from this experience. We must adopt a different approach to very serious issues that are arising. We know something about BSE and new variant CJD. We do not know a huge amount but we know enough to adopt a new approach. We know the effects on animals and on humans. The horrific physical and mental deterioration it causes is recorded. We know that until 1996 enormous quantities of British beef were imported into this country. Dr. Patrick Wall put it very plainly:

Never mind infectious material arising from Irish cattle. The Irish population has consumed an amount of BSE material from British cattle and it is likely that we may see new variant CJD cases in Ireland.

Referring to that imported meat he said: "We eat it. It was infected so somebody out there is incubating new variant CJD, I am sure". We know of one case since he made that speech and it is only a matter of time before there are others. Why are we not preparing for that as our motion presents?

There was also the case involving the Amerscan Pulmonate II agent. Over 270 patients were given that product before it was recalled by the Irish Medicines Board. This is the type of system failure that puts people at risk. We must acknowledge that all systems fail. Nobody is infallible, regardless of whether they are Ministers, civil servants or others. However, we must ensure that we do the best possible job in terms of safeguarding public health. The Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children said that everything was being done, but that is not the case. The evidence of this is in the Government's response to the motion. Everything will not be done unless it changes its view on this issue.

The Government could take a lead in Europe. It would be a valuable role to adopt, particularly when markets are being closed to EU beef. Such a ban has a disproportionate impact on Irish trade. Other countries have shown how a refusal to face facts and to accept responsibility on this issue is leaving a legacy of pain, suffering and death to individuals as well as causing collateral damage to a viable beef industry. We can do things differently and we should show the way.

Mr. Sargent

I thank Deputy Upton for her clear presentation of the BSE issue and the Labour Party for tabling the motion which the Green Party wholeheartedly supports. I welcome the decision by the Minister to make the ENFER prion test compulsory in all animals over the age of 30 months by 1 January 2001. However, the Department still has considerable work to do on the issue.

In November 1999, I asked the Minister how he intended to deal with the fallen animals problem due to the crisis in rendering. In his four line reply, which amounted to a "no problem" statement, the Minister said that the current indications showed an upturn in demand for feed products being produced by the rendering industry which would, in turn, ease the situation generally. However, we all accept now that this must stop. The voluntary ban is not good enough with regard to pig, poultry and fish meal. We all need to take stock and Mr. Tom Parlon of the IFA accepted this on the news this evening.

In common with all parties in the House, the Green Party accepts that veterinary and hospital body parts incineration is essential to kill disease. The quickest way to increase veterinary incineration capacity in Ireland is to make it clear – this is the Minister's responsibility – that it is not municipal, industrial or hazardous waste incineration, but veterinary incineration. The other wastes can be avoided and treated without creating problematic emissions and toxic ash by-products. BSE needs incineration and it must be clearly stated that this is the purpose of the incineration.

The livelihoods of many farming families depend on leadership from the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development on this issue. He must resist pressure from the "burn everything in the bin" brigade who will delay the solution to the BSE crisis by stirring up a controversy which is not to anybody's advantage. When the Minister is using the word "incineration", he must ensure that he says "veterinary incineration". Otherwise it will delay the solution to this very serious problem and nobody wants any delay.

Mr. Farrelly

I am disappointed that the motion has not been accepted, but I am not surprised because the Government has not accepted a motion from this side for three and a half years. Unfortunately for family farmers who produce beef, this issue has not gone away. We thought it had been well dealt with over a period, but it is now worse than ever.

A constituent of mine told me two days ago that he had 28 animals and he sold 18 of them. However, three weeks later, when he took eight more animals to the factory, he received £650 less for them. This involved animals that were purchased last spring and this time last year and which were not overly expensive. What will happen to all family farms over the next number of months until the spring? In addition to the items mentioned in the motion, what action will the Minister, in consultation with his officials and the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs, take in relation to this issue?

I got annoyed about this issue last week and the Ceann Comhairle asked me to leave the House as a result. However, thousands of small family farms are depending on an income over the winter from their investment. Aside from all the problems that have been mentioned by my colleagues, there is an issue in relation to income. For example, mothers must be able to provide the money required by their school going children. I urge the Minister not to produce a scheme in which the Minister, Deputy Ahern, would be involved in implementing that makes no sense. This happened previously. A scheme is required and compensation must be provided.

Undoubtedly, the issue of the incineration of animals must be addressed. We have a responsibility to deal with this matter. The Minister said that animals will be placed in cold storage, but I did not realise that animals were being buried here. Is the Minister entering negotiations with another country which has incinerators to take the relevant animals because they cannot be kept in cold storage forever?

Regarding fallen animals, is it the case that all the SRM removed over the past 18 months from animals is in storage? If so, costs must arise and this cannot continue. We are all reasonable people and this issue must be addressed. In 1996, the Minister's predecessor, Deputy Yates, made decisions which started the ball rolling in this area. Ireland is top of the league in terms of dealing with this problem and the Minister and the Government should not oppose the motion because the issue must be addressed.

Mr. Deenihan

I thank the Labour Party for the opportunity to contribute to the debate. I was in the Department of Agriculture in 1996 when the BSE scare first hit Ireland. It was a very trying period for the officials, the Minister and me. I remember numerous occasions in the House when the issue was totally politicised. The Minister and his colleagues took every advantage of Ireland's plight at that time to damage the then Government and the resulting publicity reached places such as Moscow.

On one visit to Moscow, the Minister's current adviser, Mr. Moore, was with me when the chief veterinary officer, Mr. Avilov, decided to close the Russian market. He intended to issue a decree to that effect that day, but I convinced him to come to Ireland and see the controls that were in place before he did so. It was necessary to approach officials higher than the veterinary officer, but he had a pile of press clippings from Ireland, most of which were about criticism of the Government by the then Opposition spokesperson, the Minister, Deputy Cowen, and others who were ruthless.

I compliment Deputy Upton and I fully support the motion. There should be unanimity with regard to it. The issue should not be politicised and Deputy Penrose's approach was responsible. This issue is of national interest. The Minister knows that the Egyptian market was closed in the early 1990s and it took three years to have it reopened. It was closed again in 1996; they took our beef but they would not accept our live trade. It took a long time to resolve the problems with that market. It was going to be closed again, on the Minister's admission. It was stated in some press clipping that the Minister said it would take a year to reopen it. That would destroy the industry. It is worth about £200 million to Irish farmers.

We have to reassure consumers. We cannot tell them they will not get CJD if they eat meat because there is not enough scientific evidence yet to prove that conclusively. I agree totally with Deputy Upton's appeal for adequate research into the causes of CJD. However, we must tell consumers that we have very high standards of control in Ireland, which were first put in place in 1995 and have been implemented since then by the Minister and his colleagues. It should be clarified that since we have put those stringent controls in place, there has been no example of an animal born with BSE. It is very important to emphasise that to the market. All the cattle we are exporting at the moment are young.

It is very important to maintain that high standard of credibility. As the motion points out, this is about the integrity of our beef industry. It is very important for us to emphasise there has been no case of BSE in any animal born since these stringent controls were put in place. The BSE crisis is a classic example of what happens when man messes around with nature.

There has been only one case to date of CJD. However, a compensation package must be put in place, not only for the victims but also for the farmers involved who have been cleaned out. The Minister must also get a package from Europe. Deputy Yates got £200 million when he was Minister. The current Minister must get a proper compensation package from Europe to ensure the 100,000 beef farmers will not be forced out of business.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development (Mr. N. O'Keeffe)

In commending to the House amendment No. 1, I wish to thank all the Deputies who contributed to the debate. In particular, I compliment Deputy Upton on her most extensive and thorough contribution in opening the debate. As the Minister, Deputy Walsh, and other speakers have said, the subject matter of the debate has involved issues of the most serious kind and the tone and content of contributions from all sides have been in keeping with that fact.

This debate has been most timely. It opened against the backdrop of acute consumer concerns about BSE in a number of European countries within recent weeks, unilateral responses to such concerns by a number of countries and the actions taken on foot of the recent Council of Agriculture Ministers meeting, which were detailed by the Minister, Deputy Walsh, in his speech to the House last evening. In the course of the debate, there have been further developments of major significance, underlining both the fluidity of the current situation and the need to restore stability as quickly as possible.

In the course of today, there have been announcements by both the EU's scientific steering committee – SSC – and the European Commission itself. The SSC had been asked by the Agriculture Council to consider the scientific justifications submitted by Italy, Spain, Austria and France for their unilateral actions. These included, in the case of Spain, a restriction on imports from Ireland. While much of the focus of the SSC's examination was directed at measures which had been introduced to restrict imports from France, its findings are of considerable relevance to Ireland.

As far as imports from Ireland are concerned, the SSC found that no scientific justification had been put forward to justify the argument that importing cattle from Ireland could increase the geographical BSE risk in the importing country. The SSC considered that an increase in the number of BSE cases in Ireland does not provide new scientific elements in favour of import bans. Indeed, the SSC noted that in the context of an earlier thorough evaluation of BSE risk in Ireland, the outcome of which reflected very well on the rigour of our controls, it had itself predicted an increase in the reported incidence of BSE. I regard today's announcement by the SSC as very significant and as worthy of note by our trading partners.

The European Commission announced earlier today that it has agreed a package of proposals in relation to the current BSE situation which is to go forward to the special Agriculture Council on 4 December 2000. These include—

An Ceann Comhairle

As it is now 8.15 p.m., I must call on the Deputies nominated to reply to the debate.

Mr. N. O'Keeffe

I would just like to say that while Egypt has introduced a temporary suspension of import licences for imports from western Europe, we wait to see what emerges from the current debate in Europe, including discussions on beef, due to—

An Ceann Comhairle

I must call on Deputy Upton.

Mr. N. O'Keeffe

—take place at next Monday's special Agriculture Council meeting.

Dr. Upton

I wish to share my time with Deputy Quinn.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Farrelly

It is a pity the Minister of State did not say he was accepting the motion if that is all he had to say.

Dr. Upton

I am very disappointed the Minister has not indicated his support for the Labour Party motion on BSE. The Government's amendment fails to address many of the points raised in the motion.

The importance of the beef industry to the Irish economy has been recognised and registered in the Labour Party motion. Sustaining farm families, contributing to the Irish export market, promoting the expansion and development of Irish agriculture and recognising the benefits of Irish beef in a balanced diet were key considerations in moving this motion. However, public health and the safety of the food supply must take priority.

The Minister revealed to the Dáil yesterday that there were 20 new cases of BSE in November, the highest in any single month so far recorded in Ireland. This brings the total for this year to 556. This problem is clearly not going away. While the percentage incidence in the entire cattle population is very small, what really counts is the number of cases in cattle born after 1996. I would like the Minister to tell the House the age of each infected animal detected with BSE and if he is happy that the precautions of 1990 and 1996 in relation to animal feed are now satisfactory.

I quoted at some length from the Phillips report during my introductory speech. We must learn from the UK's mistakes. The chronology of the disease is spelled out very clearly in many of the MAFF documents and other published references.

It is clear that the number of cases of BSE in the UK are dropping. While we have had meat and bone meal controls here since 1990, which were further strengthened in 1996, the number of Irish cases continues to rise. It was because of the ineffectiveness of the 1990 ban that it became essential to introduce more stringent controls in 1996.

I call again for further controls now in relation to meat and bone meal in pig feed. This has been banned in the UK for all animal feed, including pigs and poultry. Why are we playing "catch up" here, when the UK and France, for example, have banned this product from their pigmeal?

I welcome Commissioner Byrne's proposal today to impose a temporary ban on the use of meat and bone meal in all meat based animal feed. Today's move by Commissioner Byrne places added pressure on the Irish Government to impose a ban on meat and bone meal.

The licensing situation that pertains at present is not a satisfactory way to ensure all meat and bone meal is excluded. The effective policing of the licensing conditions is next to impossible to implement. Meat and bone meal should be banned now because it is the right thing to do, not because of any pressure from the Commissioner.

I referred yesterday to the importance of the high quality of Irish food to our markets at home and abroad. I referred, in particular, to the meaning of the word "quality". What quality parameters are measured when there is a quality assured mark on a packet of bacon, for example? Does it reflect the raw materials used, the water content, the additives, the process or the safety? The word "quality" means very little unless some auditing system is laid down in law. Various organisations use quality systems and quality marks, but it is not clear what these quality systems mean. Legislation to ensure that any quality system is audited in the same way as food safety systems, such as HACCP, are audited is needed for credibility.

I refer again to the need for the separation of food safety from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. I know this was addressed at length by the Minister of State, Deputy Moffatt. The protection of public health and the promotion of our food industry depend on this separation.

The fundamental principle underlying food safety is the concept of farm to fork, a topic discussed at length when this House debated the National Beef Assurance Bill. A seamless process of auditing is what we endeavour to put in place. However, at present, legislation on on-farm inspections, animal health and, most significantly apropos this debate, animal feed are within the remit of the Department of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development. I endorse entirely the comments made by the Minister in relation to the Food Safety Authority, which is doing an excellent job. However, we should be very clear about the need for the separation of these areas of legislation.

Given that we all subscribe to the principle of a seamless system of food safety, these areas, along with all other food safety responsibilities, should be within the remit of the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. It follows that the resources to ensure the enforcement of that legislation will be provided to the authority. At present, staff who are responsible for food safety within the Department of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources have other responsibilities. It seems that now is an appropriate time to review the management of food safety in Ireland and to ensure there are no gaps or loopholes in the execution of the law and that the seamless operation, to which we pay lip service, should be activated.

I am heartened by Commissioner Byrne's proactive stance in relation to BSE and I also welcome one of the recommendations by the Minister. Two major areas of change I have sought in this matter have been conceded in the last 48 hours. The Minister has agreed to full testing of all animals, as sought by me last week and I welcome that. Commissioner Byrne has today indicated that meat and bonemeal is likely to be banned from all animal feed. This is also a very positive move.

Central to the debate on BSE is accountability and traceability. From a public health point of view, traceability of any food product is essential. As a first, basic step to allow food product to be traced we need clear, unambiguous labelling. It is not good enough to allow companies to use sleight of hand labelling, creating the impression that a product is Irish made when it was simply packaged in Ireland. Only the very committed or concerned will be able to spot that a product with a company address in Cork, Galway or wherever, was produced in the Netherlands, Germany or elsewhere in Europe. This kind of smart alec, commercially street wise labelling damages confidence in our foods. If for whatever reason, be it commercial or public health, it is not considered appropriate to provide full information on the label it can only damage or discredit the industry when the truth emerges.

The culture of secrecy and paternalism was identified in the Philips report in the UK as a major factor contributing to the escalation of BSE and consequently new variant CJD. The lessons of the UK should not be wasted on us. It was ten years after the first official case of BSE was diagnosed that it became clear that the disease could spread to humans. Misleading assurances became the hallmark of the management of BSE in the UK. Several damaging myths emerged early on in the saga there that later played a large part in allowing the disease to spread.

There are key points we can draw from the British experience. There was a presumption that scrapie was a causative agent and that it would not cross the human species barrier. Later it transpired that scrapie was not the infective agent and we now know to our cost that the species barrier is a very uncertain preventative. The practice of feeding bovine protein to cows sparked an unstoppable chain of cannibalistic infection, later identified as new variant CJD in humans. Another key finding overlooked by scientists was that only a tiny dose was required to cause infection. Ignorance of this fact led to slaughterhouses routinely breaking the ban on BSE contaminated cattle material. It took until 1995 to realise that infective material had been entering the food chain in mechanically recovered meat – edible material sometimes scrapped from the spines of cows. The UK Government withheld the publication of scientific literature of the first report into BSE for six months.

These are some of the mistakes or omissions that cost, and continue to cost dearly, the UK and all EU countries touched by BSE. The era of bland assurances has come to an end. Public trust can only be established if communications about risk are frank and objective. To return to my first comment on this debate, the culture of secrecy and paternalism must end.

I commend the motion to the House and I earnestly request the Government to support it. The motion is prompted by a concern to ensure the future of the beef industry, the credibility of Irish agriculture and, above all, the health of the consumer.

Mr. Quinn

In future years this debate, and the contribution to it by Deputy Upton, will sadly form part of a tribunal of inquiry. The Government had the opportunity today to explain why it took less than every step available to it. I do not wish to be too dramatic in what I have to say and I especially respect the commitment, political professionalism and agricultural experience of the Minister, but I would hate to think his contribution to agriculture would go down in history as being inextricably and indelibly linked with this matter.

The Minister should listen to the word of an expert. The health of the consumer and the beef industry are two sides of the one coin. No other country in Europe is as dependent on the beef industry. It is not only farmers who are involved, although they are at the beginning of this industrial chain. Workers in meat factories, people in transport and veterinary people are also involved.

The Minister is aware, as I am, how Private Members' motions are formulated. At the Cabinet meeting yesterday he was asked for his recommendation on Private Members' business. The amendment to the motion is drafted by him and his officials. He is sufficiently in the Fianna Fáil led Government to unilaterally decide now to withdraw his amendment, not only on the basis of what we have said in this debate but on what his former legal colleague and Attorney General said today at lunchtime and on what he will vote for at next Monday's meeting.

The Minister must admit that he received a much more responsible and supportive Opposition than the previous Minister, Deputy Yates, received in 1996. We are not playing politics with this, but we want to be highly political on behalf of everybody. The Minister has the political authority not to press his amendment to a vote. We will give him the time to act accordingly. He and I have on occasion sat around the same table when such amendments are debated. His judgment on these matters will be respected by his Cabinet colleagues and supported by his backbench Members and colleagues in Government.

The Minister listened not just to the erudite analysis by Deputy Upton but also to the contribution of a former Minister of State in at the Department of Agriculture, Deputy Deenihan, who had to deal with the kind of problems in Moscow he will confront. He knows how long it took to reopen the Egyptian market, having campaigned long and hard for it. I do not have to tell him things about the politics, mechanics and economics of agriculture and beef. He knows far more about them than I will ever know. However, since becoming Members of this House some time ago we have acquired political experience. I ask the Minister to use that experience, consider the wording of the motion and explain how he can square the contradiction of voting against something tonight when he will be urging his colleagues at the meeting of the Agriculture Council of Ministers next Monday to support Commissioner Byrne's proposals, one of which is identical to the motion.

This country is and will remain more dependent on the beef industry than any other country in the EU, including applicant member states. Poland does not pose that kind of threat. It is essential we return to the primary observation that the health of the consumer and the beef industry are inextricably linked and that perception is reality, not the veil of secrecy, nor the scientific explanations and reassurances. They did not work in Britain and they are not working with the Egyptian authorities or anybody else.

If we want a beef industry of a scale and kind that will ensure that the midlands and other parts of rural Ireland, which are critically dependent on beef as a primary component of the industry, we must unite the House tonight and state clearly and categorically that we are doing everything possible that can be done. The Minister of State, Deputy Moffatt, attempted to say this but he contradicted himself. If the Government and its supporters press the amendment to water down this motion the Minister will not be able to say that on the evening of 29 November 2000 he did everything possible that could be done at that time in the light of available knowledge.

Somebody in a tribunal in the future will ask the Minister if he did not realise the full importance of what he was doing all those years ago. The Minister, who has the authority and respect of his colleagues, will deeply regret that he did not have the courage not to press the amendment and to go with the unanimity of this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I must now put the question on Amendment No. 1 in the name of the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Rural Development.

Mr. Howlin

Is the Minister pressing the amendment?

An Ceann Comhairle

The question is being put now.

Mr. Howlin

It is a shame.

Amendment put.

Tá

Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Harry.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Matt.Brennan, Séamus.Browne, John (Wexford).Byrne, Hugh.Callely, Ivor.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Daly, Brendan.Davern, Noel.de Valera, Síle.Dennehy, John.Doherty, Seán.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Fleming, Seán.Foley, Denis.Fox, Mildred.Gildea, Thomas.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kenneally, Brendan.

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael P.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John J.Martin, Micheál.Moffatt, Thomas.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Bell, Michael.Belton, Louis J.Boylan, Andrew.Bradford, Paul.Broughan, Thomas P.Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).Bruton, Richard.Burke, Ulick.Carey, Donal.Clune, Deirdre.Connaughton, Paul.Cosgrave, Michael.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Creed, Michael.Currie, Austin.D'Arcy, Michael.Deasy, Austin.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard.Enright, Thomas.Farrelly, John.Finucane, Michael.Flanagan, Charles.Gilmore, Éamon.Gormley, John.Higgins, Jim.Higgins, Michael.Howlin, Brendan.Kenny, Enda.

McCormack, Pádraic.McDowell, Derek.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Naughten, Denis.Noonan, Michael.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Owen, Nora.Penrose, William.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Reynolds, Gerard.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Shatter, Alan.Sheehan, Patrick.Shortall, Róisín.Spring, Dick.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Stagg.

Amendment declared carried.

Question put: "That the motion, as amended, be agreed to."

Tá

Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Michael P.Lawlor, Liam.Lenihan, Brian.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James.McGennis, Marian.McGuinness, John J.Martin, MicheálMoffatt, Thomas.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Ó Cuív, Éamon.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Hanlon, Rory.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Keeffe, Ned.O'Kennedy, Michael.O'Malley, Desmond.O'Rourke, Mary.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wade, Eddie.Walsh, Joe.Woods, Michael.Wright, G. V.

Níl

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Flanagan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 29 Nov 2000