Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 6 Feb 2001

Vol. 529 No. 4

Other Questions. - Drink Prices Order.

Michael Bell

Ceist:

38 Mr. Bell asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if it is intended to re-impose the drinks prices order, having regard to reports that some publicans have increased the price of a pint by 12p to 15p following the lifting of the order; the number of inspections of licensed premises carried out to monitor compliance with terms of the drink prices order while it was in operation; the number of prosecutions that have taken place as a result of breaches of the order; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [2993/01]

Mr. T. Kitt

I am on record as deploring the irresponsible manner in which some publicans are behaving following the expiry of the drink prices order. I am closely monitoring the situation, and I will not hesitate to take appropriate action in the light of developments. As regards the number of inspections of licensed premises, I have been informed by the Director of Consumer Affairs that a total of 2,671 premises was visited to establish compliance with the order and follow-up visits were made to 543 premises. During December 2000 and January 2001, five premises were successfully prosecuted for breaches of the order. Further prosecutions are planned during 2001 in respect of breaches which occurred while the order was in force.

Mr. Rabbitte

I asked questions about the current position, not the historical position. Other than wringing his hands, has the Minister of State decided to do anything?

Mr. T. Kitt

Two options are being considered by me and my ministerial colleagues. They are the reintroduction of a prices order and the further liberalisation of licensing. I have stated my preference for the latter. All the information we seek is not available and it would be prudent of us to make decisions when we have such information. The prices order I introduced was comprehensive as it related to 13 different drinks, including soft drinks. It was much more comprehensive than the Deputy's, which was a botched effort covering half the country and which was introduced prior to an election. We acted because of the rate of inflation last January and I also introduced a prices display order which has improved the position of consumers who at least can make a proper choice. The introduction of the prices order has been helpful. However, the introduction of such an order is a blunt instrument nowadays.

Mr. Rabbitte

Does the Minister of State accept the difference between our prices orders was that mine required the price increases to be rolled back and was effective outside Dublin while there was voluntary agreement to roll back prices in Dublin? Is it not the case that he made the prices order prior to the Tipperary South by-election, after a price increase had been imposed? Why is he fluttering his wings making statements when the vintners know well, unless we are on course for an election in the next few months, that the Minister of State has no intention of doing anything?

Mr. T. Kitt

With regard to the prices orders, my order was introduced in July but was backdated to May. It was an effective order which was followed up by action by the Director of Consumer Affairs. My order was better.

Ms Harney

We will have to have another public inquiry.

Mr. T. Kitt

It might be possible to hold an inquiry. However, the prices display order was also important. In response to the Deputy's question, I need additional information. The Director of Consumer Affairs has done useful work with regard to the figures. The picture in rural Ireland is much better than in Dublin. The position in Dublin, from initial reports, is not healthy in certain more fashionable parts of the city. I urge consumers to vote with their feet but I assure the Deputy that when I have compiled all the relevant information, I intend to take action.

Mr. Deasy

The Minister of State and Deputy Rabbitte are in a clinch and, as a referee, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle should tell them to break because in their own way they both did a very good job in controlling the price of the pint and the price of drink generally. The Minister mentioned two measures the Government is thinking of introducing, price control and deregulation, but when will he make a decision on them? There is a first class pub in my constituency.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are running out of time, Deputy.

Mr. Deasy

The price of a pint there is £1.90. It is an excellent pub. I know there are problems with staffing but there is no reason we should have increases of the magnitude mentioned in the question. All credit is due to Deputy Bell for tabling the question. Would the Minister agree that we need action quickly before the situation again gets out of control?

Mr. Barrett

We are concerned about the price of the pint but does the Minister have any proposals concerning the wide variety of charges for mixers, which can range from 60p up to £1.20? Everybody is concentrating on the price of the pint, which is important, but the overall cost of mixers is incredible.

There is concern about the present sale of licences, particularly in rural areas, where villages are being denuded of what was formerly a form of community centre where people met for a drink and a chat. Now we find that with the drink driving laws people have nowhere to go unless they are prepared to travel for miles without public transport. Surely we owe it to rural communities—

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are moving into the realm of another question.

Mr. Barrett

What proposals does the Minister have to deal with that issue?

Mr. T. Kitt

I share the Deputy's concern about the possible effect the extinction of licences would have on certain rural communities. We have seen a classic example of this which was mentioned on RTE recently. I would like to see proper liberalisation. In many ways it would take out the element of having to get a rural licence and bring it to Dublin.

Mr. Barrett

The Minister can implement his view now that he is a Minister.

Mr. T. Kitt

No, to answer the Deputy's question—

Mr. Barrett

There is no point in being a Minister if he cannot do so.

Mr. T. Kitt

I am entitled to my views and we will be making decisions based on collective ministerial responsibility.

Mr. Barrett

He is the Minister.

Mr. T. Kitt

As the Deputy knows, there are other Ministers involved.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister should not allow himself to be distracted by interruptions because he will run out of time very rapidly.

Mr. T. Kitt

The Deputy also mentioned the question of soft drinks. In introducing the Price Display Order I was very conscious that it froze the price of drinks, and soft drinks also. I share the Deputy's concern and deplore some of the practices in some parts of Dublin where I have seen instances of the price of mixers being raised from £1.10 to £1.80. All sorts of interesting data is being made available to me but it is not yet complete. As soon as I have sufficient data I will consult my ministerial colleagues and in particu lar the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. On the basis of that consultation decisions will be made.