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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 3 Jul 2001

Vol. 540 No. 1

Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill, 2001: Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Bill deals with three aspects of the payments made to leaders of parliamentary parties – how they are computed, how they are audited and how they are adjusted following a merger of parliamentary parties. I propose to deal with each of them but not in the order in which they occur in the Bill.

These allowances have been with us in one shape or another since 1938. When my first Fianna Fáil predecessor, Sean McEntee, introduced the concept of an allowance for the leader of the main Opposition party, it was not a popular move – particularly with his own supporters. He recognised that there was a price to be paid for parliamentary democracy and that one component of that price, at a time when public funds were small and imperative demands on them great, was some subvention of parliamentary Opposition. Subsequent Governments accepted and developed that approach and now allowances are paid to leaders of all parties represented in this House and to non-party members.

Sean McEntee made it clear that this allowance was not a salary for the leader and indicated to this House on what he saw this money being spent. Quite deliberately, he opted not to set his catalogue of leaders expenditure in the concrete of a statutory definition but to leave scope for its adjustment to the needs of different Opposition leaders, the culture of different parties and changing priorities over time.

Until today, there have been two qualifications of the McEntee doctrine since 1938. First, the allowance was specified as being for parliamentary purposes, including research, and following the McKenna judgment prohibited for use for electoral purposes. These remain the parameters for the use of the allowance and when this legislation was first mooted the representatives of all parties I consulted initially felt it should be left as it was. Effectively, what they told me was that we all know what "parliamentary purposes" mean and, if there had been any confusion about it years ago, it has long since been clarified through public discussion. Equally, breaching the ban on electoral use of the allowances carries such a practical risk of a result being challenged by a disappointed candidate that only a party leader with pronounced kamikaze tendencies would even contemplate it. These I accept are not unreasonable ways of looking at things.

However, it is equally valid to say that the propriety of this particular public expenditure is currently self-policed and that it is appropriate that normal audit procedures should be put in place to correct this. The Bill provides that each leader will be required to prepare a statement of his or her expenditure, have it audited by a public auditor – not an employee of any State institution – and to submit it with that auditor's report to the Public Officers Commission.

Section 1(11) sets out where the responsibility to carry out these obligations rests where a leader dies or resigns before he or she has complied with them. Its sanction for non-compliance is simple – fail to deliver and the cash flow dries up until one does. The documentation comes to the commission for its consideration. It may seek from a leader some clarification and then report to the Minister for Finance telling him or her whether the leader's statement and auditor's report came within the time specified, are adequate or inappropriate or disclose any expenditure which does not comply with the requirements of the relevant subsection. The commission's report is laid before the Oireachtas and the commission must retain in its office for three years the leader's statement and auditor's report freely accessible to the public. These arrangements are broadly in line with the arrangements applying to party funds provided under the Electoral Act.

A second criticism heard from time to time was that parliamentary activities could mean everything or nothing. I want a system which will stand the test of time, and none of us who joined this House in 1977 or others who came earlier would have won a prize for predicting the items of expenditure which would feature regularly in a parliamentary party's statement of expenditure. What I have done after serious consultations with all party leaders is set out a list of what we regard as proper categories on which a leader's allowance could be spent. However, if one looks at the subsection which lists these items, it states that the parliamentary activity includes them. This clearly signals that the list is intended to be a snapshot of what the party leaders collectively have seen in recent years and now see as activities and items that have to be financed from that allowance, and all of us in this House appreciate that equally legitimate categories of which we have not thought may arise in the future. They can be added to the list eventually if they come to be a regular feature.

The second new element in this Bill is to take account of mergers between parliamentary parties when fixing allowances. Where it was relevant since 1938, no account was taken in fixing leaders allowances of accretions his or her party acquired in this House during the life of a Dáil by defection from another party or the conversion of an Independent. This seemed reasonable. The electorate had provided votes which elected a Member on the basis of the badge he wore at a general or by-election and they were entitled to expect their party to enjoy that Deputy's support in the voting lobbies and financially. Deputy Quinn, when radically altering the basis of payment in 1996, held firmly to this position. The money stayed where the Deputy started and did not go where he or she moved – whether it was to another party or to non-party status. Most of us thought that was reasonable.

Mergers or take-overs of smaller parties have not been unknown since the Oireachtas was established. In the 1920s and 1930s what is now Fine Gael merged with several parties and the Labour Party did likewise in the 1940s and later. None of these exercises had any implications for the leaders allowance either because it did not exist or because the legal provisions then in place did not affect it.

The merger during the life of this Dáil of Labour and Democratic Left was different. Both had leaders who were paid on the basis of the Dáil strength of their parties. Democratic Left's stopped and Labour's was unaffected. This was because Deputy Quinn's Act of 1996 provided that the leaders allowance was based on the number of Deputies elected as "members of that party at the previous General Election or at a subsequent by-election". The Deputies involved felt hard done by. This was not a political smash and grab where a party captured a discontented Member of a rival party or led a lonely Independent astray. This was a different class of a thing altogether. Two parties with a long standing ideological affinity decided that they were after all compatible and both parliamentary parties and their parties at large decided democratically that they would together become the Labour Party. I am accepting the Labour Party approach and agreeing that the same facility should be available to any parties where all the Dáil and Seanad Members agree to merge in the future. I propose, however, to retain otherwise the arrangements where a defection would not cost funds to the parliamentary party to which the Member had belonged at election time, and would not travel into another party or direct to him or her in the case of opting for non-party status.

At the start of the Bill, the rates of allowances which I and the Government feel should be paid to parliamentary parties of varying strength are set out. In this we are following, with some adjustment, the approach taken by my predecessor, Deputy Quinn, when he decided to radicalise the leaders allowance system by removing the requirement that a party had to have seven Deputies elected before they got a share of cash allocated to parliamentary parties and by extending the allowances to the Independents. The adjustments we are making take account for the first time that Senators are members of var ious parliamentary parties and make demands, as Deputies do, on the services and facilities which a parliamentary party has to provide to all its members. These demands have been greater in recent years as the Seanad made greater use of specialised committees and as Senators took part with their colleagues from this House in joint committees – some of which have proved to impose heavy and contentious burdens. The sums this Bill would provide on their account are, like those for Dáil Members, tapered but only involve two rates for parties and one for Independents because the Seanad is smaller. Those sums are lower than for the general run of Deputies because of the wider function which Deputies have.

The second change we wish to make is in the tapering system as it applies to the Dáil. At present there are four categories – first five; six to ten; 11 to 60 and over 60. This is being reduced to three – first ten; 11 to 30 and over 31. Deputy Quinn took the view, not unreasonably, that the rates should be skewed in favour of the smaller parties on the grounds that a party with five or less members had to keep the party flag flying on several issues with a consequent higher necessary "spend" per member than a larger party or a non-party member. While I would not want to send that view up in flames, there has been a feeling around this House, at least from an early stage in the life of this Dáil, that larger parties have fared less than equitably under the scheme and that the same would be true in the future for parties with between five and ten Dáil Members. The new dispensation would involve treating the first ten Dáil Members in the same way as the first five are currently treated and the next 20 in the way six to ten are treated under the existing scheme. The rest, including parties with more than 60 members, will get the rate currently paid to parties with between 11 and 60 members.

For non-party Deputies, we propose to apply a straight formula – they will each receive the average of the payment made in respect of each party member. This represents a significant increase for them but still leaves them significantly behind the one man Dáil party leader. Some of the more dyed in the wool party members think this practice should not be continued but the fact is that any Minister or Government who wants to avoid becoming embroiled in constitutional litigation must be wary of any measure which could be interpreted as treating non-party members in a discriminatory way.

There is one point not strictly related to the Bill which I consider appropriate here because it relates to a select group of former leaders. Over recent Saturdays, RTE radio has broadcast programmes in which political events of particular epochs were recalled and picked over by academics whose focus was ex-Taoisigh. I have not yet formed a definitive view on the series because it has not dealt with the period or per sonalities in regard to which I claim a certain expertise and sufficient familiarity to know when the pundits have been sold a pup. For me, the fundamental point which came across from the programme was that our democracy has been led by a handful – far fewer than our neighbours or partners – of capable and hard-working men, to whom we owe an immense debt, for in excess of 80 years.

When a Taoiseach leaves office and subsequently leaves this House, elements of the burden of office remain. Constitutionally, he becomes a member of the Council of State and takes part in its formal duty of advising the President on contentious matters. In the nature of things, a Taoiseach becomes public property, a status less easy to shed than the office itself or the role of party leader. The public, or significant elements of it, are reluctant to give up their ownership of the person in question. Ex-Taoisigh are routinely invited to make appearances at events and openings, are expected to deal with representations from contemporaries as if they still held public office and may be required to offer delicate advice to their successors. They will invariably become targets for shoals of researchers in the fields of history, administration or political science or producers of television reminiscence slots. Some persistent editor is almost certain to ask them to contribute to Christmas or summer book reviews or write a short piece for an educational or exam supplement. Somebody else may ask them to join other notables in producing a self-made painting for a charity auction.

While there is no obligation on ex-Taoisigh to do any of these things, the badgering and entreaties will possibly not cease until they die. Dealing with correspondence or dealing with telephone calls makes increasing demands with advancing age. I take the view that this burden should be eased and I propose to deal with it outside this Bill by providing, under the Taoiseach's Vote, for each former Taoiseach to have a secretarial assistant remunerated at the same level as secretarial assistants in this House. I commend the Bill to the House.

This Bill is not untimely and is very much in line with proposals I authored in the Fine Gael policy document, A Democratic Revolution, which the Minister has read. This Bill, the Bill which the House will debate tomorrow and the Electoral (Amendment) Bill must be considered in their totality. The flip slide to the proposals in A Democratic Revolution which relate to providing parliamentarians with long overdue and badly needed improved allowances and staff levels is that we must deal with our existing responsibilities in a more thorough, effective and efficient manner or take on new responsibilities.

I hope when this House resumes in October, the Oireachtas commission legislation will contain radical proposals for a complete overhaul of the operations of this House and its committees. There are currently five Members in the Chamber. We know that if the bells ring for a vote, our colleagues will come into the Chamber. None of them is lying out in the sun; they are in their offices working or are attending committee meetings. I do not know of any other parliament which conducts its business in this way. Most other parliaments do not hold plenary sessions and committee meetings in parallel. We expect powers of bi-location, tri-location or more from Oireachtas Members. It is not unusual for two committees of which one is a member to meet at the same time as the Dáil or a parliamentary party meeting. The result is the scandal visible on television every night – empty benches.

In the past three of four weeks, a broad range of legislation, resolutions, motions etc. has been passed through this House without even the most scant scrutiny. This unacceptable practice must not be allowed to continue. I have been long enough in the Dáil, as has the Minister, to remember when a motion beginning "Notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders . . ."– the guillotine as we now know it – was a rarity which was met with an enormous row. This practice is now a regular feature of the Order of Business, having usually been agreed between the Whips. It is vital that we break the cosy arrangements which exist between the Whips. Those arrangements make life easy for the Whips, Ministers and Members in general but we are not elected to this House for an easy life. We are here to scrutinise and enact legislation and to hold Ministers to account. We are here to ensure that citizens' business is conducted in the most effective and thorough manner possible. My welcome for this Bill and the legislation with which we will deal tomorrow is not unqualified. It is predicated on whether the manner in which we conduct our business, for which we will now be reasonably well paid, is radically and speedily altered.

I welcome the Minister's proposal to provide secretarial assistants to ex-Taoisigh. What about the widows of former Taoisigh who have worked for this country in a totally unpaid capacity over the years and whose former status confers on them ongoing public duties? What about former Presidents and their spouses who have also given enormous service to this country? We should not be mean about this. We should treat our former Presidents and their spouses and our former Taoisigh and their spouses with the generosity that people would expect. They should be given the necessary facilities to enable them to do what their former positions continue to impose on them, even in retirement.

I want to deal with the question of fairness and proportionality, which is very much in the eye of the beholder. The Minister talked about the arrangements for the Leader and sole member of a party, such as Deputy Joe Higgins's position. He is one of the hardest working Members of this House.

The Deputy should put that on his CV.

He is one of many hard working Members of this House. I am not saying that the allowances made available to him are too great, but why should they be that much greater than those made available to Members of the major parties? If one is a member of a smaller party, it is difficult to attend every committee but at least one has the prospect of being called to speak from time to time, much more so than if one were a member of the larger parties.

Under the Bill, Independents are being given an increase in the personal parliamentary allowance from £15,000 to £22,000, but uniquely they will not have to account for it. They are not required as party Leaders, and I assume in this case Deputy Joe Higgins is a party Leader, to account for that allowance. They can spend it as they like. A report on the spending of it will not be required to be made to the Public Offices Commission and subsequently to the Dáil. That is fundamentally wrong.

I share a constituency with an Independent, Deputy Gregory, for whom I have the greatest respect. Why should he have £22,000 to spend that I do not have? My party gets an allowance in respect of me, but I do not see it. It is used for official parliamentary work. Why should Independents get a £22,000 allowance – which other Deputies do not see sight of – and not have to account for it?

This is a serious question. I am influenced on this view given my former position as Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts. There must be accountability for all public funds. When account is taken of Deputy Healy-Rae's chairmanship of a committee, his £22,000 allowance tax free, his travel allowance and his membership of the county council, his income is more than that of a Minister. He could not afford to be a Cabinet Minister. It would be a demotion for him. He does not have to account to anybody for the spending of that income. He does not answer questions in Dáil as Ministers must. He does not have to produce accounts for the expenditure of his allowance, which will be increased to £22,000. He does not have to report to the Public Offices Commission. He is not subject to any query, scrutiny, comment or criticism from anybody. He could spend that allowance on personal items. The allowance given to the parties cannot be spent in that way. It must be spent for strictly parliamentary purposes and it is in the control of the party Leader, not the Deputies. That puts Deputies who share a constituency with Independents at an enormous disadvantage.

The Government may be particularly dependent on Independents. It is smart to line their pockets to keep them sweet, but it is wrong that they will get an allowance of £22,000 which they can spend as they like without needing to account for it or it being audited. I hope the Minister will agree that is wrong and agree to a proposal on Committee Stage that the same audit and accounting procedures will be required of Independents as are required of party leaders.

The package proposed under this Bill and the Ministerial, Parliamentary and Judicial Offices and Oireachtas Members (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, 2001, need to be taken in the context of the Electoral Bill, which has nearly completed its passage through this House and will be enacted within the next week or two. There are also extremely generous and possibly dangerous provisions regarding smaller parties in that Bill. It puts down the qualification that any party which gets 2% of the national vote will automatically get £100,000 per annum. That has been put in to suit the Progressive Democrats, but it is very short sighted. That will encourage all the small parties to run candidates everywhere to try to reach the 2% figure. If a small party was to run a candidate in every constituency, very few small parties would get less than 2% of the vote and a few of them would get 4% or 5% or a quota, as in the case of Deputy Higgins.

We are encouraging splintering of the democratic process and that entails a potential danger. Who will form the Government if the process is splintered? I have no doubt this is proposed merely to address the current situation of the Progressive Democrats whose support might fall as low as 2% of the national vote. It would be much better if that provision in the Electoral Bill was based on a requirement that at least one seat must be won by a party. Under this proposal, if there was a raving lunatic party here as there is in the United Kingdom—

The Monster Raving Loony Party.

—it would be entitled to £100,000 because it would get more than 2% of the national vote. That proposal is a bad idea, although genuine political movements which are not part of the political establishment but have serious policy issues and significant support among the electorate ought to be recognised. The 2% threshold is too low. A small party should be required to have at least one candidate elected to this House or, alternatively, to get 4% of the national vote to get that sum.

The totality of the package would mean that the support per Member for the smaller parties would be much greater than the support per Member of the larger parties. That would be the extraordinary position. The totality of the proposals put forward in recent days would also disportionately benefit the Government parties, because under them the Seanad would be taken into account, including the 11 nominated Members. The relationship between funding of the Opposition and the Government would be changed.

As the Minister said, the allowance was introduced by Sean McEntee when Minister for Fin ance to recognise that the Leader of the Opposition and the Opposition Front Bench have a particularly onerous role in respect of parliamentary activities. That was extended rightly to include all parties in Opposition. It was acknowledged that because the Government of the day had the apparatus of the State, the Civil Service, at its disposal, it should get only two-thirds of the normal allowance. If these proposals go through, as they surely will, that ratio would change because they take into account the Seanad and the Fianna Fáil allowance would increase by a great deal more than the Fine Gael or Labour allowances. The balance between Government and Opposition would be changed to the disadvantage of the Opposition. That should not be the case. That is in defiance of one of the original principles – that as the Government has the apparatus of the State at its disposal, it does not need the same back-up that is required by the Opposition.

I hope when the Oireachtas Commission Bill comes before the House it will recognise the role of the Opposition, particularly the onerous tasks of shadow Ministers. All Members are entitled to one secretarial assistant, regardless of their duties in the House. If one is shadowing a Department, as Opposition frontbenchers do, one has a much more onerous job than Members who are not.

Deputy McDowell and I, in the period since I became spokesman on finance, have been dealing with almost ten Finance Bills, the Finance Estimates, the Taoiseach's Estimates, parliamentary questions and other motions. Often, it amounts to two or three items per week, as it does this week. We have nobody to do our research and prepare briefs on such matters, which is wrong.

Likewise, where the shadowing of the Department of the Environment and Local Government is concerned, there has been a huge number of Bills and motions before the House in the past ten weeks. Deputy Olivia Mitchell, our spokesperson on the environment, is excessively busy. It is not an acceptable way to shadow legislation as it often necessitates one taking an ad hoc approach lacking in detailed scrutiny.

When the commission is set up – which I welcome being the one who proposed it in the DIRT inquiry – I hope an additional assistant will be provided for every Member. Given the raft of legislation we have and will have to deal with, especially when adding the Electoral Bill, the Standards in Public Office Bill and the Prevention of Corruption Bill to the previous legislation – the Ethics in Public Office Act and the Electoral Acts – every Member will have to keep detailed records.

I have been a Member for more than 24 years. I have no detailed records because I have never had anybody to keep files for me. The keeping of files would be considered a minimum provision in a small office outside the House. I have no files but piles of papers. I am sure every Member is in the same position. We have no means of filing, but will have to acquire one or we will look cor rupt if we cannot answer queries. Will the Minister confirm that there will be extra assistants for each Member? In addition to these, I want extra assistance for the Members of the front benches of the Opposition parties, in recognition of the huge workload.

We need this assistance if we are to have an effective parliament. The House must be overhauled rapidly, ideally before this Dáil is dissolved so the proposals can be carried out before the next one. I know the commission's proposals will mean additional duties for the Ceann Comhairle and the staff of the Houses. Where proper administration is concerned, we are moving in the right direction. However, we cannot accept the goodies and not do the work. We must embrace the rest of the proposals. The Government has its proposals and Fine Gael has its own proposals for a democratic revolution.

It is generous of the Minister to recognise the merger between the Labour Party and the Democratic Left. What he has provided for is justified, if belated. I think and hope it is properly backdated.

I welcome that.

In respect of the proposal in section 1 to substitute a new section into the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Act, 1938, section 1(3)(a) states:

(a) a member of Dáil Eireann, who at the last preceding general election or at a subsequent bye-election was elected as a member of Dáil Eireann other than as a member of a qualifying party, an annual allowance in connection with his or her parliamentary activities of 27,934 (£22,000).

I am not objecting to the figure of £22,000, but I am objecting to the fact there are no audit or reporting requirements. Will the Minister provide the reporting and accounting requirements that befit leaders' allowances? This also applies to section 1(3)(b) concerning Seanad Eireann.

Section 1(4) states:

Subject to the approval of the Minister for Finance and to such exceptions, restrictions and conditions as may be provided for by regulations, secretarial facilities may be provided to a qualifying party for the purposes of facilitating the parliamentary activities of its elected members.

I hope the Minister uses this power to provide the extra staff that is long overdue. It is absolutely necessary because of the raft of legislation.

Salary allowances are inadequate to hire secretaries and many Members are having great difficulties as a result. Just as other employers recognise this, it must be recognised here.

Will the Minister clarify section 1(6), which states that "An allowance paid by virtue of this section shall not be liable to income tax."? Is that an allowance to the Leader or does it apply to provisions further on in the Bill?

Section 1(14)(h) states that:

the payment to a parliamentary leader of any salary or honorarium in respect of duties arising from his or her activities as such leader as distinct from those of 45 a member of Dáil Eireann or a holder of a ministerial office,

Section 1(14)(i) states that:

the payment to another person of any salary or honorarium in respect of duties arising from the person's activities in a parliamentary party,

Are those payments subject to tax, or are they non-taxable?

With regard to the Deputy's question on section 1(6), the first part of the payment of the allowance to the Leader shall not be subject to income tax.

With regard to sections 1(14)(h) and 1(14)(i), the payment of an allowance to a party leader is exempt from income tax under subsection (6), as I have said, but any subsequent payments by way of salary or honoraria are subject to income tax in the normal way. The total sum covers the payment from the State to the leader, but if the party is hiring someone, that person is subject to normal income tax.

I welcome the Minister's clarification. Party leaders are extremely busy people. Given recent public concern and certain circumstances that have materialised, there is a need for a compliance or accounting officer of some sort. This officer would control and account for payments under a leader. No provision has been made for this.

The new section 10(11)(f) states: “This subsection does not apply to an allowance paid to a parliamentary leader under this section before 1 January 2001”. I assume that means the provisions of the Bill will be backdated to all allowances paid from 1 January of this year. I welcome that the Minister may extend the additional categories of expenditure which may be covered by the Bill, because circumstances can change. However, he can only do that after consultation with party leaders.

The new section 10(14) restates many of the old provisions on how the leader's allowance may be paid and adds one or two new categories. Perhaps the Minister will respond by spelling out in detail what those new categories are and what is their purpose.

All the categories under the new section 10(14) are new. There were no restrictions before this and it was decided to include a list of categories and to say that expenses arising from parliamentary duty, including research, included expenditure on the categories listed. That does not mean expenditure on other areas is excluded.

This is how we solved this problem. Seán MacEntee said in 1938 that it was up to the Opposition leader to decide how he or she wanted to spend the allowance and that no one else should know about it. I go along with that principle rather than constraining a party leader. Hence the subsection states that expenditure will include the stated categories but does not exclude anything else. They are all new. There was nothing before.

Expenditure must also be reported, which is welcome. Regard must also be had to the rights of individual Members which are often forgotten in the House. When Mr. MacEntee proposed the leader's allowance at the time, James Dillon was also of the view that, once a Member claimed allowances or whatever, that was the end of the matter. He should be paid the allowances and no questions asked. Unfortunately, we live in a different era and it is a matter of great regret that we are in a position where the word of honour of a Member is not accepted. It is also unfortunate and a matter of great regret that there is some justification for that.

I welcome the Bill in so far as it goes. We have a duty to follow it through by reforming the House dramatically. There are ample proposals printed for a long time: our proposals in A Democratic Revolution and the Government's proposals for parliamentary reform. The proposals we deal with today and tomorrow will be welcomed by the public only if they are followed quickly by the type of radical reform we have espoused.

The Labour Party welcomes the Bill but not without qualifications. It is important we appreciate that it effectively does two things. It increases considerably the parliamentary allowances paid to leaders of political parties in the House and also sets in place auditing procedures. The increases, taken together with the increases to political parties made under the Electoral Bill are considerable and go a long way towards instituting genuine State funding of politics in Ireland.

It behoves us as we acknowledge that to make the case for State funding because it needs to be made. Reading some newspapers and listening to what people say, one would conclude that the public is far from convinced that the case is well made. Many members of the public believe political parties are commercial entities that make money or have inherited money down through the ages. My mother is capable of that and has on occasion asked me: "Does the party not pay for that". I keep telling her that I am the party. There is no stash of funds, either locally or nationally, that pays for various expenses.

We must make the case for significant State funding of political parties. It must be pointed out to people that political parties are voluntary organisations which comprise volunteers and a few paid staff. All political parties in the House ask Members to spend increasing amounts of their time organising basic fund-raisers, whether they be national collections, race nights, quiz nights or whatever, to the extent that it is becoming difficult for many political parties in the House to encourage people to join them. The one exception is Sinn Féin which appears to have lines of funding the rest of us do not have, some legal, others not and most outside the country. I do not imagine most of the rest of us would care to go that road.

We must ask ourselves and those who put the question to us to ask themselves what happens if there is not State funding. Either of two things happens. Either funding is raised privately through the various fund-raisers I have mentioned, but more particularly through big business and large donations, or alternatively politics is under-funded or not at all. We have had experience of all those phenomena.

As Deputy Mitchell rightly pointed out, the activities of the House and Members of the House have been hugely under-resourced through the decades. While I compliment the Minister's Department on undergoing what appears to be a frenetic period of creativity, it has meant that Deputy Mitchell and I have had to deal with a range of legislation and Estimates over the past three or four months without resources. It would be possible for more than one person to do the job of Opposition spokesperson and nothing else and completely ignore their constituencies, which is something none of us can afford to do. Either one stays awake at night worrying about it or one does one's best given the limited resources. It is not possible to do the job to the level we would like or to do the various jobs we are required to do to the level we are required to do them.

I welcome that, for the first time, we are giving realistic funding to political parties to enable them do the job we want them to do. However, we have always seen State funding of politics as a trade-off against the elimination of corporate funding of politics. If we are to persuade the public it is a good thing for taxpayers' money to be used to resource politics, we must be able to say to them with some persuasion that the scandal of big business buying influence has ended. I am not sure we can do that yet.

The Government has moved in the Electoral Bill to cap the amount of corporate donations in any given year to £5,000. Only time will tell what effect that will have on the parties in the House which receive significant funding from private business. It is not difficult to imagine that it would be possible for business and for parties to work out ways around it to ensure the funding they receive from the corporate sector continues at what I regard as unacceptably high levels.

The view of my party is that any level is unacceptable. It may be that businessmen in their magnanimity or out of civic mindedness have over the years given and possibly still give money to political parties without expecting anything in return. However, it is beyond doubt that the public can no longer be persuaded of that. They are satisfied that money is being used in a way which corrupts politics and which buys favours and politicians. The reality is that there has been ample evidence in the relatively recent past that this happened and at a level that is utterly unacceptable. We are faced with a crisis of confidence in politics and politicians. Our standing as people who do a particular job has never been lower in the history of the State and there is no sign of this improving. One of the measures which in my view is indispensable if we are to get round that corner is to banish the influence of business, particularly big business, from politics, which requires the elimination of corporate funding. It may seem this is an argument from last week or for a different forum but I believe it is necessarily connected with the measures we are taking here today in increasing State funding, because the two should be alternatives. If we are to get increased money from taxpayers, we should not take money from the corporate sector, and I am sorry we are continuing to perpetuate the funding.

I welcome the auditing of the accounts. On Committee Stage, or perhaps later in this contribution, I would like to question the extent to which we are requiring statements from party leaders. However, I welcome the establishment of the principle that there must be a statement from party leaders in respect of what their parties have done with taxpayers' money. If we are to receive £4 million of taxpayers' money in any given year, it is incumbent on the political parties, particularly party leaders, to account for that money. I am concerned that the obligations being placed on leaders are perhaps not as stringent as they should be. There is a requirement for a statement but the Bill does not specify what should be in the statement. The Bill does not specify how much of the party leader's allowance is spent in any one year on each of the items listed in subsection (14). Will it be possible for a party leader to submit a statement giving large rounded numbers and no further details? It might have been better to provide for an independent auditor or that an auditor appointed by the House or the Minister would examine the statements provided by each of the leaders and audit on that basis.

Perhaps the Deputy will look at page 11.

What does "a statement of any expenditure from that allowance" mean?

It means—

It must be quite detailed?

If a party leader uses a certain amount of the allowance for travel, is that leader required to specify to where he or she travelled and how much it cost or do we just have to give general headings for travel?

It will be like any business that prepares a statement of its profit and loss account or, in the case of a charitable organisation, its income and expenditure account. The income could come from the State and listed would be items of expenditure in normal classifications. The auditor would examine that and make an auditor's statement on whether spending is in accordance with what is provided for in the Bill. That will be relied on by the Public Offices Commission. Auditors' statements do not relate only to profit and loss accounts and balance sheets. The local tennis club, golf club or GAA club might have an income and expenditure account and not necessarily a balance sheet, which is quite normal.

I understand what the Minister is saying but we have a difficulty in that there is one item which is disallowed, that is, election expenditure. It will be difficult for an auditor looking at the statement to work out whether the money was, in fact, spent on election expenditure. If, for example, the leaders were to include what it cost them to travel up and down to Tipperary South in the past three or four weeks, that would not on the face of it show up on the statement. On the other hand, if such a level of detail is required in the statement that one can definitely exclude that, then one is talking about considerable detail. I am not sure if we want that either. It will be difficult to ensure we exclude the electoral heading.

I accept there will be some grey areas.

Deputy Mitchell spoke about the need to improve resources in this House and I unequivocally endorse what he said in that regard. Perhaps the most obvious heading is that of research. Several different approaches can be taken in this area, the simplest of which would be to provide each Member with a secretarial assistant who would deal with research issues. Alternatively, the service could be provided to just front bench spokespersons of the Opposition parties. Perhaps we should consider a research facility either in the House or associated with the House which is the practice in other democracies. The United States Congress has an extremely well-resourced library which does a great deal of research on behalf of members of Congress. One can ask a research assistant in the library to have research carried out on, for example, the issue of carbon taxes, and he or she will come back with a qualification at the start which states "the research is being carried out on the instructions of the member concerned, that they have been asked to carry out the research and have come up with the following information". Therefore, it cannot be touted as being the opinion of the library.

There is an argument to be made for a central research facility, whether it is based in the Oireachtas Library or elsewhere. There should be a dedicated research facility because we should avoid the situation where Members are given a research assistant who is intended to advise or assist in dealing with policy areas but who effectively becomes another constituency assistant. I do not think we want to get into that business. I acknowledge that we need to define the provision in a way which ensures the additional assistance is used for research because we need that facility.

Shortly after being elected to the Dáil I attended my first meeting of the European Socialists, the group with which the Labour Party is associated, dealing with environmental matters. Within a few moments of my arriving at the meeting in Brussels, the Swedish guy was circulating his bibliography, including books and pamphlets which he had written on various environmental issues and which he thought I might find useful. To say I felt inadequate is to understate the case considerably. Incidentally, this guy was an apparatchik rather than a spokesperson and had been working for the Social Democratic Party of Sweden on environmental matters for approximately ten years. During that time he produced a number of policy documents which had been printed off his books, pamphlets and so on and which he thought it perfectly natural to circulate.

Our parties are simply not in the same league in this regard. I do not think anyone who cares about politics and the formulation of policy can possibly argue that we are misusing taxpayers' money in any way if we wish to contribute to genuine public debate. I sometimes despair at the level of public debate on policy areas in this country. To take my previous example, what sort of debate is there here about carbon taxes, green taxes and the environment? It is very limited. In other countries, political parties are in a position to draw on expertise either within their own parties or from outside. There are policy research institutes which sometimes are associated with political parties, sometimes with a particular point of view or which may be independent. Other than the ESRI or academic based individuals in third level institutions, that level of debate simply does not happen here. There is not the sort of research or debate about policy which is taken for granted in most other countries. The Dáil and all political parties in the House have an essential role to play in encouraging this to take place.

I acknowledge the provision in the Bill which affects my party. When the merger of Democratic Left and the Labour Party took place the merged party lost the best part of £250,000 worth of funding in that the allowance previously paid to the leader of the Democratic Left, Deputy De Rossa, was not payable under the legislation as it then stood and still stands today. The case was made by the now president of my party, Deputy De Rossa, to the Public Offices Commission who accepted there was merit in the case although it properly pointed out that the legislation did not allow for any change. The case has been made by my party to the Minister and I acknowledge that he graciously accepted it. The party is grateful for the additional benefit given to it by the Minister. I wish to share the remainder of my time with Deputy Joe Higgins.

I intend to call Deputy Higgins next and he will have a 20 minute slot.

That is fine. It was not an attempt on the part of the Labour Party to engage in a political smash-and-grab or to waylay Deputy Higgins in any way. I am sure he wishes to clarify that his efforts to do the same to the Labour Party are also at an end. I acknowledge that the Minister has been gracious in acceding to a well made case on the part of the Labour Party and Democratic Left.

I agree with Deputy Mitchell's comments about the Independent Deputies. It is right that all Members of the House should be facilitated with regard to research, contributing to debates and parliamentary activities as well as political activity outside the House in terms of promulgating and putting forward their case. However, I do not understand how the same argument applies to Independents. A number of the Independents use the House as an extension of their county council activities. While that is their choice and the choice of the people who elected them, I am not sure they are entitled to an extra £22,000 of salary to do it.

Even if we accept – as the Minister appears to think we must in a legal context – that they cannot be discriminated against under this heading, I do not agree that they should be entitled to pocket the money without accounting for it. I would be obliged if the Minister explained why individual Independents who receive the £22,000 are exempt from the requirement to make a statement, as the leaders of political parties must make, at the end of each year. There is no persuasive argument as to why that should be the case.

The Bill is toothless in terms of the sanctions that may be exercised in the event of non-compliance with its requirements. This requirement is informed by experience in the relatively recent past involving a former leader of the Minister's party. While I do not wish to prejudge what might be decided at the tribunals, there is enough uncontroverted and uncontradicted evidence already in the public domain to suggest that moneys were used for purposes that could not possibly be considered parliamentary. The truth is that, even after the Bill is enacted, it may become public knowledge, but there is no sanction of any type for what was clearly a use of public money in a way that could not possibly have been envisaged by the Minister who made it available at the time.

I welcome the Bill but not without some equivocation and reservation, particularly on the issue of corporate funding. My party has always supported the concept of public money being used to support diversity in politics, but the quid pro quo should have been the elimination of corporate funding. I regret that has not happened.

(Dublin West): I thank Deputy McDowell for his understanding. Due to a clash, I cannot be present at 8.30 p.m. It is at times such as this that one wishes one had the same alleged attribute of the famed Padre Pio of being able to be in two or three places at the same time. I have not yet managed it.

(Dublin West): One feels one is meeting oneself on the way back at various times; perhaps that is as close as we will get.

I welcome the audit provided for in the legislation. It is inexplicable that it was not introduced long ago. If it had been introduced, we may not have had some of the regrettable abuses of the party leader's allowance where blank cheques were signed on some occasions and outrageous expenditure was incurred on personal effects and entertainment, etc.

However, as usual, the Minister for Finance has not surprised me. With a sleight-of-hand under the cover of the Bill, he has introduced some other substantial measures that particularly benefit the major parties in terms of funding. One must read the Bill in conjunction with the Electoral (Amendment) Bill which is currently before the House. As a result of these Bills, many parties, but particularly big parties in the House, will be hugely favoured by extra money from the taxpayer. If figures I have received are correct, the Fianna Fáil Party will receive £1.5 million per year for the party leader's allowance while the Fine Gael Party will receive £1.6 million.

Smaller parties and Independents striving to enter the House will be disadvantaged compared to the moneys that will be given to parties that gain 2% of the vote or the larger parties in the Dáil. For example, as a result of the two Bills, the Socialist Workers Party will be unfavourably treated in the sense that the Minister for the Environment and Local Government proposes to limit the donations I can give to my party on an annual basis to £5,000. I agree with that level with regard to corporate donations, but I ask the Minister or the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to make an exception where a Deputy wishes to live on the average wage – this is the policy of the Socialist Workers Party – and to give other money to his or her party which struggles to make ends meet. However, the sum is capped by the Electoral (Amendment) Bill at £5,000 as if I was in the same position as a tycoon. It is not corruption if I or any other Deputy wishes to live on the average wage and give money to their party. This aspect should be taken into account.

This Bill relates to the party leader's allowance. The money paid in this regard to a party leader is to be used for parliamentary party purposes. The Bill is specific and the money one receives under it as a party leader is totally different from the money one receives as one's salary for being a Member of Dáil Éireann.

(Dublin West): I understand that and also that it should not be used for electoral work. However, as the Minister is aware, the availability of that money means funds that otherwise would be used for parliamentary administration can be used for electoral purposes. It is not as clear as it appears.

As a party leader, one will have to furnish a statement for this money and account for it. The money presumably will be lodged in a separate account.

(Dublin West): I appreciate that, but if one takes the two Bills together, we are at a disadvantage if the Minister for the Environment and Local Government does not introduce an amendment.

As Deputies often say to me with regard to the leader's allowance, there is no such thing as a one man party. To qualify for the allowance, one must have a registered political party, which means party offices, branches, branch structures and, in the case of a contribution to the Dáil, substantial research, etc. I agree that Independent Deputies who qualify for money must be put in the same category as the party leaders in terms of the auditing of the account. The £5,000 every Deputy gets in a secretarial allowance should also be audited. I have taken on an extra colleague as a secretary to try to meet the enormous demand of work. However, other people, if they wish, can put the allowance in their pockets. They do not have to account for it.

I understand the Deputy is not returning at 8.30 p.m.

(Dublin West): Regrettably.

Is the Deputy sharing his time with Deputy McGrath?

(Dublin West): Yes. I will not be returning when the sitting resumes this evening and I wish to share my time with Deputy Paul McGrath.

Sitting suspended at 6.30 p.m. and resumed at 7 p.m.
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