Enda Kenny
Ceist:7 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the number of files which have been submitted to the Moriarty tribunal by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18654/02]
Ceisteanna – Questions. - Tribunals of Inquiry.
Enda Kenny
Ceist:8 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the costs which have accrued to his Department in respect of the Moriarty tribunal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19902/02]
Enda Kenny
Ceist:9 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the nature of the files which have been submitted to the Moriarty tribunal by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19935/02]
Pat Rabbitte
Ceist:10 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the number of files which have been sought from his Department by the Moriarty tribunal; if all such files have been provided; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20270/02]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Ceist:11 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach the number of files sought from his Department by the Moriarty tribunal; and the number provided. [21346/02]
Joe Higgins
Ceist:12 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the files which have been submitted to the Moriarty tribunal by his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21358/02]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 12, inclusive, together.
With regard to the transfer of files to the Moriarty tribunal, I refer the Deputy to replies which I have already given to similar questions on a number of occasions since the tribunal was established.
In relation to files requested by the tribunal, the Secretary General of my Department assigns an official to deal with such requests, which are usually required by the tribunal to be kept confidential. I am obliged to respect that requirement. My Department will continue to co-operate with the tribunals in making available any records sought.
The costs met by my Department to date in respect of the tribunal amount to €10.9 million. This includes fees paid to counsel for the tribunal and administration costs incurred to date since the establishment of the tribunal in October 1997.
It is some weeks since the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform indicated that he looked at a file in regard to the allocation of a number of passports under the passports for investment scheme which operated for a number of years. Has that file been passed on to the Moriarty tribunal or what investigation has taken place about the clear anomalies in procedure that applied in the case of that file?
This question refers to files from the Taoiseach's Department.
This is a file from his Department. The Taoiseach will recall that he answered questions a number of years ago on the Battle of the Boyne site. Recent questions I tabled concerning that site and the involvement of his Department were transferred down the line. Has that file been referred to the Moriarty tribunal from his Department?
On the first question concerning the passport files, those files were in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, but they have been passed. A significant number of other papers, not necessarily on this case but on related cases, that were in a section of my Department were passed over in March 1999.
On the second question relating to the Boyne site, the papers in my Department which were held generally and particularly by my previous adviser in this area were handed over to the Flood tribunal last year.
In respect of the file on passports to which the Taoiseach referred and which he has examined, does he agree with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who told the House on 17 October that serious questions would arise in the mind of anyone examining this file concerning—
That does not arise on this question which relates to files requested from the Taoiseach's Department.
A Cheann Comhairle—
The detail of the files does not arise.
I am not asking about detail.
Deputies should submit the questions they want answered.
There is a very narrow area of questions which can be put to the Taoiseach—
I appreciate that, Deputy, but the Chair cannot allow you to go beyond the remit of the question.
—otherwise a question will be allocated to a line Minister. On these files which were sent to the Moriarty tribunal, I submit that it is reasonable to ask if the Taoiseach agrees with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform—
Not on this specific question. The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the matter.
Why not?
If you read the questions, Deputy, there are—
I have read the questions. There is no conceivable question that can be framed that will cover every supplementary question asked in the House.
If I were to allow questions to the Taoiseach asking if he agreed with each Minister in turn on everything that Minister did, it would make a farce of Question Time.
There is no danger in the Ceann Comhairle agreeing to the Taoiseach being severely oppressed. Does the Taoiseach agree with the view of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that, in respect of the conduct of the previous—
You will have to find another way of raising the matter. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.
I do not accept your ruling.
You may not accept it but the Chair has ruled that supplementary questions must relate directly to the questions submitted.
They do.
They do not.
They relate to one of the files submitted to the Moriarty tribunal. Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who said that with regard to the conduct of the previous Taoiseach, Mr. Haughey, serious questions would arise in the mind of anyone examining the file? What serious questions arose in the Taoiseach's mind and does he agree with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform?
The questions submitted refer to the request for and transfer of files, not to their content.
There is a very narrow area in which questions can be submitted to the Taoiseach. If you are going to interpret them in the narrow manner in which you choose to do, it is not possible to frame questions that inform the Taoiseach in advance what supplementary questions will be asked.
If the Deputy has a question—
I have a question.
—that is in order it will be ruled in order, but the supplementary question in this case is not.
Let me put it to the Taoiseach this way, in respect of the files he transferred to the Moriarty tribunal, did serious questions arise in his mind about the conduct of his predecessor, Mr. Haughey, in respect of the file on passports? Were files other than those relating to passports passed to the Moriarty tribunal?
There were quite a number of papers in my Department. They were not files but special projects that related to the years when Mr. Haughey was Taoiseach. They were held by an adviser at the time and they related to a number of issues that affected passports in one way or other. They were all given to the tribunal.
They related to different issues and different periods of time, but they were passed over. The files, to which the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform referred, were files from his Department. As the Deputy knows, I did not have access to those files. I had a note on one of those files, but history moved on from that issue. When I was dealing with that note, I was Minister for Finance, but then went into Opposition. It was subsequently investigated by the then Minister for Justice, who is no longer a Member of the House. In so far as I can answer the question, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is strongly of the view that there are questions to answer.
The Taoiseach will recall me recently raising with him the Government's granting of an €800 per day fee increase to lawyers acting in the Moriarty and Flood tribunals, bringing some of their daily incomes to the order of €2,500. What is the Taoiseach's view of this type of profiteering, given that ordinary workers are being asked to accept—
That does not arise out of this question.
It does. Questions Nos. 7 to 12, inclusive, are being taken together—
If you wish to submit a question on this matter—
—and Question No. 8 relates to costs. I wish to go further in asking whether there will be a pay freeze on lawyers' fees. Is the Taoiseach aware that during the course of last week one of the leading barristers complained on television that he had to issue a cheque for €56,000 to cover his pension contribution? Does the Taoiseach accept that type of exorbitant earning capacity puts the whole tribunal—
Question No. 8 refers to costs accruing to the Department of the Taoiseach.
This is in the context of the tribunal. Question No. 8 is specific about costs. Does the Taoiseach agree that puts at risk public confidence in the tribunal process?
The fees payable to legal staff at the tribunal remained unchanged since 1997. It was not envisaged the tribunal would go on so long. During the five year period, remuneration rates generally in the legal profession increased significantly. The legal staff at the tribunals have been pressing for an increase to reflect this. The increase has been given based on what was happening in the marketplace and arose out of the Morris tribunal and the outcome provided an adjustment in the fees to the existing tribunals also. This is only fair given that these people come out of the courts for a lengthy period. It would not be possible to get them to do so if they were not paid the market rate and that is the reason for this.
Does the Taoiseach not agree these are exorbitant?