Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 16 Dec 2003

Vol. 577 No. 3

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach:

It is proposed to take No. 15, motion re report by the Minister for Defence pursuant to section 4 of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1993 (back from committee); No. 16, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of Council regulations and proposed regulations laying down uniform formats for visas, residence permits and forms for affixing visas; No. 30, statements on European Council Meeting, Brussels; No. 30a on a supplementary Order Paper, statements on Nally group report on Omagh bombing; and No. 31, Social Welfare Bill 2003 – Order for Report and Report and Final Stages.

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted on the adjournment of Private Members' Business. Nos. 15 and 16 shall be decided without debate. The proceedings on No. 30 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 80 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 60 minutes and the statements of the Taoiseach and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; members may share time; immediately following the statements the Minister for Foreign Affairs shall take questions for a period not exceeding 20 minutes. The proceedings on No. 30a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 25 minutes and the following arrangements shall apply: the statement of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform shall not exceed 10 minutes; the statements of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed five minutes in each case; the spokespersons for the Technical Group shall be confined to a spokesperson for the Green Party, Sinn Féin and the Independents. Private Members' Business, which shall be No. 46, motion re central vetting unit and child safety, shall be taken at 7 p.m., or on the conclusion of No. 30a, whichever is the later, and shall be adjourned after 90 minutes.

An Ceann Comhairle:

There are five proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 15 and 16 agreed to?

Mr. Kenny:

No. 16 is concerned with the regulations laying down uniform formats for visas. I understand this matter was given Government approval on 11 November this year and is only now coming before the House for referral to the committee. In the interest of efficiency in the Government's business, I would have expected the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to bring this to the House before now so that we might have had a discussion on the matter before it went to committee. It means this is the last week in which the matter can be dealt with. It must be considered by the committee and the Seanad and must be accepted or rejected by 2 January 2004. It is not good practice on the part of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to bring this request to the House on 16 December despite having obtained Government approval on 11 November.

Mr. Sargent:

No. 15, which is concerned with a report by the Minister for Defence, is far more serious than is indicated by the Government's decision to deal with it in committee only. It needs to be dealt with in the context of a wider debate, given that it relates to members of the Defence Forces serving overseas. The matter has serious implications from a humanitarian perspective and for the safety of members of the Defence Forces as well as wider political implications. It needs a wider debate.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

I object to the proposed manner of dealing with No. 16, which is concerned with EU regulations requiring all EU visas and residence permits to contain biometric data, such as fingerprints and face or iris scans. These are to be introduced by 2005, the year after next, and will be stored on an EU-wide database known as the Schengen information system. The proposed regulations form part of an EU architecture for universal surveillance and have less to do—

An Ceann Comhairle:

It is not appropriate to go into detail, which would be more appropriate at the committee meeting.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

I will conclude with this point. They have less to do with the proposed idea of public security and more to do with what we would regard as political and social control.

An Ceann Comhairle:

As I pointed out, a brief comment may be made on why you are opposed to it.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle would allow me. No debate is being accommodated here. These have been scantily provided for in terms of the proposition. The idea that they would move forward from here, through tomorrow and back on Thursday, without debate in this House is simply not acceptable. These are very serious matters of human and civil rights. I ask the Taoiseach to allow for an opportunity to discuss and debate these measures on the floor of this Chamber. That is an imperative.

The Taoiseach:

On the issue raised by Deputy Kenny concerning the proposals passed by the Government on 11 November, they were laid before the House on that day. Admittedly some time has elapsed since then and I am not sure why they were not taken. They have been before the House since that date.

On the proposal that Dáil Éireann approves the report by the Minister for Defence pursuant to section 4 of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1993, that report was laid before the Dáil on 4 November. It was referred to the Select Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights in accordance with the orders of reference of that committee. At its meeting on 10 December the select committeee considered the motions to which Deputy Ó Caoláin referred. I do not know how long the discussions took but the matter was before the select committee on that date.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

They are going to the committee tomorrow.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Allow the Taoiseach without interruption, please.

The Taoiseach:

No. 15 was before the committee and was discussed. No. 16 will be debated by the committee tomorrow.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

It is totally inadequate.

The Taoiseach:

As I pointed out, the date by which these must be put through is 2 January, so they have to be passed.

Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with Nos. 15 and 16 be agreed."

Tá

Ahern, Bertie.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Blaney, Niall.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Séamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Cullen, Martin.Curran, John.Davern, Noel.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.

Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Fox, Mildred.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim.Grealish, Noel.Hanafin, Mary.Harney, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Hoctor, Máire.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Séamus.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Brian.McCreevy, Charlie.McDaid, James. McDowell, Michael.

Tá–continued

McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M.J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.

O'Malley, Fiona.Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Roche, Dick.Ryan, Eoin.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wallace, Mary.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael.Wright, G.V.

Níl

Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Breen, Pat.Broughan, Thomas P.Bruton, John.Bruton, Richard.Burton, Joan.Connaughton, Paul.Connolly, Paudge.Costello, Joe.Coveney, Simon.Crowe, Seán.Cuffe, Ciarán.Deasy, John.Durkan, Bernard J.Enright, Olwyn.Gilmore, Eamon.Gormley, John.Harkin, Marian.Hayes, Tom.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Kenny, Enda.Lynch, Kathleen.McCormack, Pádraic.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.

McGrath, Paul.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay.Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Séamus.Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ring, Michael.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Timmins, Billy.Twomey, Liam.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.

Question declared carried.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 30 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 30a, statements on the Nally group report on the Omagh bombing, agreed?

Mr. Kenny:

Will the Taoiseach confirm that the notice issued to the Whips on 12 December, that time would be made available at the start of the next session for full statements and a question and answer session, will apply?

The Taoiseach:

Yes.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

The provision on the Order of Business is for a mere 25 minutes, with ten minutes for the Government speaker and five minutes each to the Labour Party, Fine Gael and the Technical Group. I do not understand how such a restricted opportunity is considered an appropriate response to a report which we have not yet seen. Will the Taoiseach clarify how we are having statements on a report which has yet to be presented to the parties and Members of the House?

The Taoiseach:

It was the Government's intention, as soon as the considerable number of legal matters relating to the report were cleared, to publish the report before Christmas and to have initial comments and statements on it in the House today. The Government has given a commitment to have further statements and questions with the Minister in the new year. This commitment has been referred to by Deputy Kenny.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 30a agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed? Agreed.

Ms McManus:

In light of the clear evidence that as many as 4,000 people may be dying each year as a result of medical mistakes, will the Taoiseach fast-track publication of the medical practitioners Bill or at least publish the heads of the Bill and indicate when the publication of the full Bill will take place?

When I raised the issue of the report on cancer services which was published some time ago, the Taoiseach undertook that we would have a debate in the House. When will we have this debate because the issue is of pressing concern to many?

The Taoiseach:

The medical practitioners Bill to consolidate all the legislation and update the Medical Practitioners Act is due for next year and the intention is to try to take it as soon as possible. I understand that the Government Chief Whip has proposed that we have the debate on the report on cancer services in January.

Mr. Gormley:

I have a question on the same issue.

An Ceann Comhairle:

I am not sure how another question can arise on the same issue but we will hear what it is.

Mr. Gormley:

When I raised this last week with the Tánaiste, she told us that it had not even come before the Cabinet yet. We were told it was coming before Cabinet in October—

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Deputy's question has been answered.

Mr. Gormley:

Will the Taoiseach explain why it is delayed? It is a relevant question.

An Ceann Comhairle:

Not for the Order of Business. If the Deputy wishes, he can submit a question to the appropriate Minister. I call Deputy Naughten.

Mr. Gormley:

We are getting contradictory answers. The Minister for Health and Children says one thing and the Tánaiste and Taoiseach another.

An Ceann Comhairle:

The Taoiseach has answered the question. I have called Deputy Naughten.

Mr. Gormley:

That is ridiculous.

Mr. Sargent:

On a point of order, there is a separate question. The Taoiseach has his information available and it seems in order that he might reply. I do not see what the problem is.

An Ceann Comhairle:

My understanding was that the Taoiseach replied to Deputy McManus.

The Taoiseach:

I will be glad to answer. The Tánaiste said at the time that the heads of the Bill had not been cleared, but it is a priority Bill and both the heads and the drafting have to be done. The Minister is anxious to deal with the Bill and has said so on several occasions. The heads had not been cleared because there was intense consultation on the Bill with all the professional bodies and the patient groups. This will ensure that there will be greater openness and transparency with the Medical Council and that is why it was done this way.

Mr. Naughten:

The Minister for Transport has promised legislation on many occasions and one of these days some of it might be published. When will we see the legislation to provide for the abolition of the CIE holding company, the establishment of three independent airports and the reform of the licensing and driver testing system?

The Taoiseach:

The Government approved the heads of the state airports Bill two months ago and the legislation is being drafted. The heads of the transport reform Bill are expected next year. The heads of the transport (companies) Bill which is to establish Bus Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnród Éireann as separate autonomous companies are not expected until 2004.

Mr. Naughten:

What about the road traffic Bill?

The Taoiseach:

There are several road traffic Bills, one of which has been enacted. The heads of the road traffic (amendment) Bill are expected in 2004.

Mr. Stagg:

The Taoiseach will be aware of recent reports about the 200 preventable deaths annually by radon gas. Is there a possibility of reintroducing the remedial grant scheme that was in place but was not implemented or is legislation promised to allow a remedial grant scheme to be introduced?

The Taoiseach:

No legislation is promised but there was a statutory basis for the previous scheme.

Mr. Stagg:

Is there any chance of bringing it in again?

Mr. Durkan:

What is the status of the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, having regard to the present issues of concern, the Abbottstown sports centre authority Bill which is engaging many in the area of sport and recreation, and the building control Bill about which there was some agitation six months ago? Before the Minister for Transport puts in the hydraulic jacks to raise the Dublin Port tunnel, it might be no harm to know whether this will be controlled by the building control Bill.

Mr. Naughten:

The Minister for Transport is putting it on stilts.

The Taoiseach:

The building control Bill is due in the middle of 2004, the heads of the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill have been approved and the Bill is for drafting since last autumn. I have no date for the Abbottstown sports centre authority Bill.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

In reply to me on 26 November regarding the nurses and midwives Bill, the Taoiseach stated that the heads of the Bill would be agreed before Christmas 2003. Will he advise whether they have been agreed with two days of Dáil sittings remaining?

The Taoiseach:

My information is that the heads have not been completed.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin:

When will it happen?

Mr. Sherlock:

When will the Government introduce the judicial conduct and ethics Bill and will it provide for complaints by clients against solicitors?

An Ceann Comhairle:

We cannot discuss the contents of the Bill. The Taoiseach can answer on the legislation.

The Taoiseach:

The Department is considering the provisions that might be included in the Bill taking into account work done by the Constitution Review Group, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Constitution and the Chief Justice's committee on judicial ethics. It is hoped to circulate the heads of the Bill during 2004.

Mr. J. Higgins:

In light of the astonishing report that 200,000 animals died on farms in the State last year, what is the status of the animal health Bill to consolidate and update the diseases of animals legislation?

In light of the weekend events in Iraq and the capture of Saddam Hussein, should the Taoiseach have looked down every hole in north Dublin instead of going up every tree in search of information about Ray Burke? Would he have been more successful?

Mr. Naughten:

The Minister for Transport is sorting that out with his tunnels.

The Taoiseach:

The animal health Bill is due in 2004.

Mr. J. Higgins:

Was the Taoiseach present when the event happened?

Mr. Sargent:

The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources informed the House last week that he does not propose to intervene or to give political leadership in the area of advertising—

An Ceann Comhairle:

Is the Deputy's question appropriate to the Order of Business?

Mr. Sargent:

It is. Will the broadcasting authority Bill be published earlier, given that the Minister's UK counterpart is prepared to give political leadership in this area?

The Taoiseach:

The heads of the Bill are expected in the spring. The Bill will be drafted then.