Dan Neville
Ceist:126 Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the numbers using MABS. [23392/04]
Other Questions.
Money Advice and Budgeting Service.
In 2003 the Money Advice and Budgeting Service took on approximately 16,000 new clients and had more than 13,000 active cases at any one time. The number of new clients increased from 9,000 in 2001 and 12,000 in 2002. An average of 1,700 persons per month visit the MABS website www.mabs.ie. The key feature of the MABS programme is the provision of money advice, including the publication of information on money management and debt counselling. The service is targeted primarily at individuals and families who have problems with debt or money-lending and who are on low income or in receipt of social welfare payments.
The Money Advice and Budgeting Service helps to negotiate voluntary arrangements as an alternative to the legal system. This approach is generally well received by creditors but in some instances, especially when MABS is not involved, creditors will use the legal system to enforce the debt. MABS now operates from 65 centres throughout the country, with 130 money advisers and 80 administrative staff working for it. It has an emphasis on practical, budget-based measures that will succeed in removing people permanently from dependence on moneylenders and open alternative sources of credit through the credit unions. The service gives advice and assistance but does not pay debts. MABS will cost more than €11 million to run in 2004.
An option offered by MABS is to arrange for the person to open a special account in his or her local credit union. This enables persons to repay debts by paying an agreed weekly amount into this account. A shares account is also opened which helps to cultivate a savings habit and enables people to borrow in time of need.
Additional information
Currently the Money Advice and Budgeting Service and the Irish Bankers' Federation operate a debt settlement scheme on a pilot basis as an alternative to the legal system of debt enforcement. This pilot is targeted at those who are on the point of legal action with their creditor or creditors and consists of a voluntary agreement between debtor and creditors which provides for income retention, freezing of interest and writing off of residual debt after a repayment period of up to five years. A new company, MABS National Development Limited, was established this year and will promote and develop MABS services throughout the country.
A recent evaluation found that over 90% of those questioned were positively disposed towards the service, and this included clients, community and voluntary bodies, the finance industry and statutory creditors. It found that two thirds of the caseload consisted of female clients. Just over half were aged between 25 and 44 and one third were aged over 45, with a small proportion aged under 25. Approximately 70% were receiving some form of social welfare payment. The overall conclusion was that the MABS has proven itself a worthwhile intervention with a strong rationale for its continuation.
At the time of the savage 16 cutbacks last year, if some family or individual was in difficulty, MABS, often in conjunction with the health boards, worked out the difficulty, advised the family or individual to go to credit unions and made arrangements with the relevant bank, building society or other financial institution. An agreement was entered into that the family or individual would pay a portion of the debt, the institution would reduce its claim for interest and, most importantly, when the person had entered into agreement with MABS and the health board, the health board would make a part payment. One of the savage 16 cutbacks last year stopped this and I ask the Minister to reverse this decision. Community welfare officers have told me it is having a significant effect on those attending MABS.
Financial institutions give money to those who cannot afford to pay them back. Some 1,600 people were in jail last year for non-payment of television licence fees and non-payment of debts to financial institutions. Legislation should be introduced so that financial institutions will be prosecuted if they give money to those who cannot afford to pay it back. It works both ways.
I will reconsider the 16 or 17 adjustments to satisfy myself as to where they stand, including the one to which the Deputy refers, but I stress that this involves no commitment. I have asked for the relevant files and in particular for an assessment of whether hardship is involved. In many cases, those involved at the time, such as the social partners and others, felt the adjustments were unfair but have now come to the view that they have not caused hardship. However, in other cases perhaps they have and I will take a positive view of these cases.
The Deputy will agree that MABS provides a good service. It is there to help people in particular circumstances and we will work with the service to help improve it.
The service was established in 1992 with five pilot projects but now has over 50 offices with funding of €11.4 million. However, the cut to the MABS supplement is insidious and I ask the Minister to review it. It provided a financial safety net and took people out of the hands of moneylenders and other sharks who created huge difficulties.
Will the Government follow through on its commitment to set up MABS as a statutory authority? This was agreed in principle and a Bill was drafted but has been deferred pending further discussion. Will the Minister ensure that some aspects of local input currently facilitated by boards of management are retained as it has been positive in effect?
We spoke to MABS and the free legal aid centre with regard to the other issue. Will the Minister ask the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to explore debt settlement legislation which would impose duties and obligations on financial institutions to ensure they are not handing out money and credit cards freely while expecting everybody else to pick up the tab? They put pressure on vulnerable people with free mail shots while expecting the Government to supply additional funding in this regard. Debt settlement legislation would be important and complementary to the ongoing tremendous work of MABS. Long may it continue.
I assume the Deputy refers to the MABS National Development Limited company which was incorporated on 18 March 2004 and for which a team has been recruited, which commenced employment on 1 September. It is a new company to further develop the MABS service. Its aim is to identify and assess the needs of management and staff in MABS at local, regional and national level. The directors of the new company are all stakeholders in MABS, representing management and staff interests from the service. Comhairle is also represented. The Department is represented by the national co-ordinator for MABS to whom the company employees report on a day-to-day basis. A company secretary has also been appointed.
I will pass on to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the Deputy's query in regard to debt settlement legislation.
I record my appreciation of the work of MABS in the community. From a small beginning in Cork ten years ago, where the late Mr. Brendan Roche was the first chairman, the service has come a long way and has done tremendous work, most of it unseen and sensitively handled. However, the service is not widely known throughout the community. The Minister should communicate to MABS that greater awareness is needed as well as a campaign to make people aware that the service is there for their assistance. While 2003 showed an increase of 9,000 users, many others would avail of this assistance if they were aware it was available. I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and know he will do an excellent job. He should communicate with MABS that greater awareness of its services is needed in communities that do not have the service.
I agree with the Deputy's comments regarding MABS and will do what he suggests.
British-Irish Council.
Breeda Moynihan-Cronin
Ceist:127 Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the nature and content of the discussions with members of the British-Irish Council on Social Inclusion in Cardiff in July 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23304/04]
The British-Irish Council was established under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement to promote positive, practical relationships among its members. The members are the British and Irish Governments, the devolved administrations of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man. The BIC provides a forum for members drawn from the eight administrations involved to consult and exchange information on a range of issues of mutual interest.
At the meeting of the council in November 2002, it was decided that the initial work of the group should be on the specific theme of financial inclusion. My predecessor as Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Mary Coughlan, attended the ministerial meeting of the social inclusion strand on 16 and 17 July in Cardiff at which this work was received and concluded. Ministers discussed the report, which is aimed at enabling individuals and communities affected by poverty and deprivation to have greater access to appropriate financial products and services.
It was noted that financial inclusion strategies can make a major contribution to improving individual and household income, employability, health and well being. At a community level, financial inclusion programmes can support ownership of assets and the capacity of communities to foster wealth creation and enable local businesses to grow. Ministers recognised that the problems of social and financial exclusion affect all communities. The meeting heard progress reports on the range of strategies on which members are working to tackle these problems. Ireland's experience in developing the Money Advice and Budgeting Service was considered to be particularly valuable.
Ministers reaffirmed the important role that financial inclusion can play in social inclusion and anti-poverty strategies more generally. BIC member administrations will continue to exchange information and ideas and learn from each other's experience. The report of this work will be published shortly on the BIC website.
Ministers agreed that the next topic for work within the council's social inclusion theme would be disability with a specific focus on access to employment, education and training.
The Minister has been in the job only a few days, but can he give any indication as to when he might host a meeting of the British-Irish Council on Social Inclusion? The last meeting took place at Cardiff and I welcome the progress that was made, particularly in terms of the recognition of the importance of financial inclusion and the role it can play in social inclusion and anti-poverty strategies. It is notable that cognisance has been taken of the central role MABS plays. That is something of which the Irish Government can be proud.
The Minister indicated that the next topic for work at the British-Irish Council on Social Inclusion is the theme of disability. When will there be a final report on the work dealing with best practice at national and local level regarding the financial inclusion aspect of the last council meeting?
Ministers have agreed that the next topic for work within the council's social inclusion theme will be disability with a special focus on access to employment, education and training. I do not have a date for that meeting. As soon as I have one I will communicate it to the Deputy.
The work of preparing for this meeting has already commenced. My Department has already submitted a paper to the group outlining information on schemes and benefits targeted towards people with disabilities. Between 1999 and 2004 the council met on five occasions at summit level. The Taoiseach attended all five meetings. It considered a range of subjects including the misuse of drugs, the knowledge economy, social inclusion and minority and lesser used languages.
There have also been nine ministerial meetings on social inclusion, 81 meetings of officials and 14 conferences and seminars. There is much work going on and I will keep the Deputy informed of developments.
Health Board Allowances.
Seymour Crawford
Ceist:128 Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if he has made or intends to make changes to the assessment for carer’s allowance for farm families in view of the strict criteria being used by many of his social welfare officers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23185/04]
Bernard J. Durkan
Ceist:136 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of persons in receipt of carer’s allowance; the number of applications refused in 2004; if this represents an increase or decrease on previous years; if he expects there to be an increase in the number of persons likely to be eligible for carers allowance in the course of the Estimates for 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23324/04]
Denis Naughten
Ceist:138 Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if he has given consideration to establishing a national carer’s database with the aid of the Central Statistics Office. [23362/04]
Paul Nicholas Gogarty
Ceist:155 Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if his Department influences the non-payment of further grant assistance to social welfare recipients, especially in relation to the domiciliary care allowance. [23400/04]
Willie Penrose
Ceist:168 Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his progress in the implementation of the recommendations of the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affair’s report on the position of full-time carers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23297/04]
Paul Kehoe
Ceist:190 Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his proposals to change the eligibility criteria for carer’s allowance, particularly for persons in receipt of a social welfare payment prior to making application for carers allowance; if consideration will be given to the need for the introduction of an income disregard for those persons in receipt of a social welfare payment who subsequently qualify for carer’s allowance; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23361/04]
Breeda Moynihan-Cronin
Ceist:192 Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the plans he has to increase the rate of payment of the respite care grant; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23303/04]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 128, 136, 138, 155, 168, 190 and 192 together.
Supporting carers in our society has been a priority of the Government since 1997. Over that period weekly payment rates to carers have been greatly increased, qualifying conditions for carer's allowance have been significantly eased, coverage of the scheme has been extended and new schemes such as carer's benefit and the respite care grant have been introduced. Under the provisions of the carer's allowance scheme, carers may engage in employment or self-employment for up to ten hours per week. This measure was introduced in recognition of the value such work affords to carers.
It also allows carers to maintain contact with the labour market. The reason for placing a limit on the hours that a recipient of carer's allowance can work is to safeguard the needs of the care recipient and to ensure that they receive the full-time care and attention that they require. The operation of this limit will be kept under review.
The report of the Joint Oireachtas Committee makes a range of recommendations, many of which relate to my Department and a number of which concern the Department of Health and Children. I am always prepared to consider changes to existing arrangements where these would be for the benefit of recipients and financially sustainable within the resources available to me.
One of the recommendations relating to my Department pertains to improvements in the information available to carers. In this regard, funding of €18,000 has been provided to the Carer's Association towards the publication and distribution of a new information pack which will provide information about services and supports for carers and their families. The information pack is currently being compiled by the association and will be distributed throughout the country in libraries, health board offices, clinics, citizen information centres and social welfare offices by the end of the year. It will contain important information to carers on the services and supports available to them and their families.
In addition, my Department is currently finalising plans for a nationwide campaign to increase awareness of carer's benefit and carer's leave arrangements. This is planned to take place during October.
Regarding a national carer's database, the Central Statistics Office included a question in the 2002 census to identify the number of persons providing unpaid personal care for a friend or family member with a long-term illness, health problem or disability. In March this year, the CSO published volume 10 of the census results pertaining to data in relation to people with disabilities and carers. This is a most comprehensive document with more than 40 tables of data relating to carers.
Carer's allowance is not paid concurrently with another social welfare payment or by introducing a disregard in respect of that payment on the grounds that, as a general rule, only one social welfare payment is payable to an individual. Persons qualifying for two social welfare payments always receive the higher payment to which they are entitled. The question of an income disregard for carer's allowance would raise similar issues.
The overall number of persons receiving a carer's allowance has increased from 10,126 at the end of 1997 to 22,300 the week ending 24 September 2004. Expenditure on the scheme has in the same period increased from €46.36 million to an estimated €203.8 million in 2004. The number of applications refused payment relative to claims received has declined in recent years arising from various improvements introduced by my Department. My Department has awarded 3,220 applications and refused 2,021 applications this year up to mid-September.
The respite care grant is paid to recipients of carer's allowance, including those who receive a carer's allowance in respect of recipients of a domiciliary care allowance. The Department of Health and Children pays a respite care grant to all other persons for whom a domiciliary care allowance is payable.
Government policy is strongly in favour of supporting care in the community and enabling people to remain in their own homes for as long as possible. The development of the range of supports for carers will continue to be a priority for this Government and, building on the foundations now in place, we will continue to develop the types of services which recognise the value of the caring ethos and which provide real support and practical assistance to the people involved.
Proposals relating to increasing rates of payment or other measures involving additional expenditure will be considered in the context of the forthcoming budget. As part of this process my Department is currently undertaking an internal review of the carer's allowance and carer's benefit schemes, taking account of the issues that have been raised in many fora.
I thank the Minister for his extremely extensive reply. It would not be fair to push him on the issues in my question which was tabled as a result of discussions I had with his predecessor specifically regarding farming issues.
The Minister referred to the issue of ten hours at work on a farm. The case of an individual who is away from the home doing ten hours work is different from the case of an individual operating a small farming enterprise who is in and out of the home on a constant basis. Social welfare officers will estimate, based on numbers of, for example, cattle, that the work cannot be completed within ten hours. Though the individual may be in serious financial difficulties, he or she will often be refused. The individual often has to pay money for assistance in looking after a loved one. When the single payment was introduced, social welfare officers were understanding and reasonable. However, in the past 12 months, they have kept to the letter of the law and refused genuine cases.
Small farmers are often asked to produce audited accounts for means tests, yet they are ignored by social welfare officers when provided. I know of a case where the individual concerned had come through serious banking and other problems, yet his means test found he was earning €729 per week. I ask the Minister to introduce more realism into these procedures. The Minister referred to approximately 2,000——
I remind the Deputy that supplementary questions are limited to one minute. The Deputy is now on his third minute.
I urge the Minister to have the procedures reviewed. The money should not be spent on a national advertising campaign. If people are getting a service, they will advertise it. If not, they will persuade other people not to waste their time in applying.
I am open to sensible and practicable changes that will remove nonsensical anomalies from the system. My basic approach to this matter is a common sense one in examining the merits of individual schemes to see how they can be improved. More must be done for carers. Much has happened as shown in the statistics I quoted. However, there is scope for further improvement and I am committed to examining it as a matter of urgency.
I am glad the Minister is open to sensible suggestions in correcting anomalies. One anomaly I have raised with previous Ministers, from Deputy Woods to Deputy Dermot Ahern to Deputy Coughlan, is that of a full-time carer losing the carer's allowance if he or she receives a widow's or widower's pension. Take the example of a small farmer's wife caring for someone at home who is incontinent and bedridden. If her husband dies, she will receive the widow's pension to compensate her for her loss but will lose the carer's allowance, despite continuing to be a full-time carer. She is then forced to employ casual work to replace her husband on the farm. What can be worse than that example? I have appealed to the Minister's predecessors on this issue, yet they have ignored me. I hope the new Minister, fresh with new ideas and open to suggestions, will answer me on this matter.
I will examine the case raised by the Deputy. I am in the business of providing solutions and targeting resources at people who need our support, and I will examine this in that spirit. However, I stress that having just heard of this example, it would be wrong of me to commit myself.
I am not rushing the Minister.
I am committed to examining procedures that do not make sense and sorting them out. That is my approach to work.
I will write to the Minister about these cases when I return to my office.
I do not intend to rehash last night's debate on the carer's allowance but there is a way the Minister can get around this problem. Widows and widowers are a specific example that the Committee on Social and Family Affairs put in its report's recommendations. Take the example of a husband earning €400 per week while his wife receives a carer's allowance for caring for a handicapped child. If he dies, his wife's income is reduced to a widow's pension but she loses the carer's allowance at the time she needs it most. One way to overcome the difficulty of two social welfare payments is to declare the widow's pension as an income support while the carer's allowance remains an allowance. It is now time to get rid of the many pedantic regulations in this area. The period of 15 months taken by an individual to look after a loved one should be extended to 30 months. I know it will have to be negotiated with IBEC and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. However, Deputies O'Connor and Wallace will confirm that this was one of the recommendations in our report on carers' interests and one which they supported.
I appreciate the work done by Deputy Penrose and the members of the Oireachtas Committee on Social and Family Affairs. I will examine those recommendations in the report with an open mind.
I appeal to the Minister to change the culture in the Department of Social and Family Affairs, particularly towards the carer's allowance and other allowances. A more rigid interpretation of rules and regulations in assessing means for carer's allowance is evident since the last budget. It was regressive step. Will the Minister recognise that because of competing demands, the circumstances of carers are getting worse and a reversal of this policy is now needed?
I note the Deputy's comments.
The Minister has reaffirmed the long held position of the Department of Social and Family Affairs that only one payment can be received by social welfare recipients. However, this principle was rejected when the Government relented on the widow's and widower's pension half payment. In his parliamentary question, my colleague, Deputy Gogarty, asked to what degree the Minister's Department has influenced payments made by other Departments. Lone parents find themselves caring for children with special needs but are precluded from availing of the domiciliary care allowance from the Department of Health and Children. This is due to the ongoing Government policy enunciated through the Department of Social and Family Affairs. Will the Minister assure us that he is not placing barriers against social welfare recipients receiving due entitlements from other Departments? If so, it will go some way to relieving the burden of many people involved in caring for loved ones and denied what should be a right.
It is a general rule that only one social welfare payment is payable to an individual. Those qualifying for two will always receive the higher payment. That is the general rule but I believe there is room for exceptions and I am prepared to examine this. If there are rules which affect people by causing them hardship, instead of standing by the rule we need to amend it to deal with the hardship. If that breaks a general dogma or headline, so be it. We will have to find a way around it.
The focus should be on sorting out the individual's problem. If that breaks a golden rule, there is something wrong with the rule and we must find a way to amend it which does not open the floodgates by attracting either more fraud in the system or spurious claims, all of which reduce the resources available for the people who really need support and help. That is the type of approach we must take. We must focus resources where they are needed, not let silly rules get in the way in individual cases where people must be helped, and ensure there is no wastage, fraud or spurious claims which reduce the amount of money we can focus on genuine cases. That is the general approach. I have not examined many of these issues in detail yet but I will approach them against the background of that philosophy, if one can call it that.
I thank the Minister for being so forthright and I hope he can follow through. Can the Minister accept a situation in which a widow or widower who is left to care for somebody receives no carer's allowance, yet the same person can take up a full-time job and retain a widow's or widower's pension? That is a fact. Deputy Penrose spoke about extending carer's benefit to 30 months. Recently, I had a telephone call from a friend who told me about the mother of a two and a half year old child who had to give up her job. She is no longer able to get carer's benefit. Her husband is in an ordinary job but his wages are too high to meet the criteria, so she is paid nothing. There is enormous financial pressure on that family. Half of the carer's allowance would be of benefit in either of those cases.
I am learning a great deal from what is being said today. I hope I am a fast learner and I will deal with those issues as well and as quickly as I can.
We do not even know how many people are cared for. One issue that has not been referred to in this debate is the children who are caring for a relative or some other person. The Disability Federation of Ireland put forward its submission today and is asking the Minister to examine this area. Countless numbers of young people are looking after relatives or neighbours and this should be examined by the Minister and his Department.
I will do that.
I support the remarks of previous speakers about carers. The Department should be complimented on the removal of anomalies in the system, as social welfare is so wide-ranging and so many people are affected by it. Nevertheless, people still encounter obstruction. While progress has been made, we look forward to meeting the Minister to discuss this area. The committee has devoted a great deal of time to this issue and we are aware of the importance of carers. In some instances, they do not get the recognition they deserve.
In one case, a lady returned from the United States to look after her father. She had to rent out her house because its accessibility was unsuitable. She then rented another house. However, she was debarred from getting the carer's allowance. She was told that had she been working here in Ireland, she would have been given the carer's allowance but because she returned from the United States to care for her father, keep him at home and out of an institution, she was debarred from receiving the allowance. This is the type of anomaly we must examine.
I am conscious of the tremendous progress and changes that have been made. However, we must continue to keep an eye on the system. I have given one example and could give others but there is not enough time. We look forward to working with the Minister. There is tremendous potential for progress and I believe the Minister will be sympathetic in that regard.
I thank the Deputy for his remarks, which I will consider.
Social Welfare Benefits.
David Stanton
Ceist:129 Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if he has received reports or observations from the community welfare service concerning the operation of SI 728 of 2003 regarding rent supplement. [23393/04]
Eamon Ryan
Ceist:150 Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his views on a report, commissioned by the Dublin Citizens Information Service and the homelessness agency CentreCare, which says that new rules intended to reform the rent supplement scheme are creating crises through new eligibility requirements. [23415/04]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 129 and 150 together.
The statutory instrument referred to gave effect to certain changes which were introduced in the rent supplement scheme in January 2004. Regular meetings are held between my Department and the health boards at which the operation of the supplementary welfare allowance scheme is discussed. Specific discussions were held with representative groups of superintendent community welfare officers on the implementation of the rent supplement provisions.
A working group was established under the Sustaining Progress agreement to facilitate engagement with the social partners on monitoring the impact of the changes to the scheme. The working group, which was chaired by the Department of the Taoiseach, included representatives from the ICTU and the community and voluntary pillar as well as my Department and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. As part of its deliberations, the group met a number of community welfare officers.
The working group examined 498 randomly selected rent supplement applications which were refused since the measures came into effect in January 2004 and found that only 11% of the refusals were because of the new measures. Many of these would have been refused on other grounds in any event. The group concluded that the new measures were not having any significant adverse impacts having regard to the design of the measures, including the operation of the appropriate levels of discretion by the community welfare officers. A total of 27,000 rent supplements have been awarded since the measures came into effect at the end of January this year.
The recent report by CentreCare and the City Centre Citizens Information Service states that its purpose was "to identify issues arising from the first six months since changes to rent supplement eligibility were introduced". The report was based on a survey of 51 cases where the applicant was refused rent supplement and information on 40 other similar cases that were not included in the survey. The report does not show that the new measures are causing hardship or crises. In some cases rent supplement was awarded. It is clear from the information given in respect of a number of other cases cited that the application had failed for reasons other than the new measures. My Department has identified a number of inaccuracies in the report and does not accept its central conclusions.
In light of the report published by the social partners working group and the fact that more than 27,000 rent supplements have been awarded since the measures became effective, it is considered that the changes in the supplementary welfare allowance rent supplement scheme have not created hardship. These arrangements are part of a wider programme of change whereby local authorities will progressively assume responsibility for meeting long-term housing needs. These new arrangements will see local authorities put in place positive solutions for people with long-term housing needs.
Is the Minister aware that Ballymun is the only place in Ireland where one cannot avail of rent supplement? According to the CentreCare report, the Minister's predecessor and now the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Coughlan, issued instructions to the health board covering that area that nobody in the Ballymun regeneration area was to receive rent supplement unless the local authority there agreed. Does the Minister agree that this flies in the face of the Government's homelessness strategy of local response to homelessness? Nobody in that area has received rent supplement since last June. It is a scandal. Why are the people of Ballymun not allowed to avail of rent supplement? Instead of the local authority assessing people's housing needs, does the Minister not think it is time an independent assessor did so?
It is wrong that the people of Ballymun are not allowed to receive rent supplement. That is discrimination against them. Why is this happening? The Minister is a Dublin Deputy and another Dublin Member, Deputy O'Connor, is sitting behind him. I am surprised this matter has not been raised previously in the Dáil. It is wrong. Why should there be discrimination against the people of Ballymun? I ask the Minister to issue a directive tomorrow rescinding the directive made by the previous Minister. Nobody can decide who is in need of housing or rent supplement because one does not know on a daily basis what will happen. This is discrimination and I ask the Minister to deal with it. He might not be aware of it and it might be unfair to throw it at him. However, I urge him to check this out and have the directive I referred to rescinded immediately. The people of Ballymun should be treated equally to the people of the rest of the country.
I thank the Deputy for bringing that to my attention. I am not aware of any issue in regard to Ballymun. I would be surprised if there was a particular instruction or directive in regard to a certain location and if any such piece of paper existed in that format based on a geographic location rather than on general eligibility rules. I will take up the Deputy's invitation to see what is happening there.
Deputy Ring has pre-empted my Question No. 141 which asks about designated geographic areas and I will wait to see what the reply states. In regard to Deputy Eamon Ryan's Question No. 150, which returns to the CentreCare report and which I appreciate was dealt with during priority questions, the Minister and his Department officials seem to be listening to what they want to hear in terms of who issues a report on this matter. The quote from the CentreCare report is quite emphatic. It states that the new rules intended to reform the rent supplement scheme are creating crises through new eligibility requirements. It is not only this report or this organisation which has stated that. This morning the One Family group, which used to be known as Cherish, in launching its pre-budget submission said that it wished to see it rescinded and that it was causing great hardship for one parent families. It said it was part of a group of 39 NGOs also campaigning to rescind this measure. In making his decision on the effect the decision on rent supplement has had, will the Minister defer to the report he has just received or will he listen to Department officials or the actual experience of people working with disadvantaged people in disadvantaged communities?
I have invited all the groups in this area, including those the Deputy mentioned — there is a large number of groups in this area — to meet me on an organisation by organisation basis as soon as we can arrange dates so that I can learn first-hand what their priorities are rather than from any intermediaries. Next Monday I will meet more than 29 different groups over perhaps four hours as part of a pre-budget forum. I will be able to listen first-hand to what each of those 29 or 30 organisations regard as their priorities, including the areas of homelessness and carer's allowance. I intend to listen directly to those who must deal with these issues rather than study particular reports.
I probably sound surprised given the nature of the order from the Minister's predecessor. I refer the Minister to a letter dated 24 May 2004 from the chief executive of the North Eastern Area Health Board directing that the Northern Area Health Board not pay rent supplements in respect of accommodation in the area delineated in the attached map. It appears to exist and I believe it has to do with the Ballymun regeneration area. What worried community welfare officers in the area was that applicants who had been refused included people who had lived in Ballymun all their lives. What concerned them was that it was referred to by some people as a form of social engineering. That was causing concern in some areas. Perhaps it is an issue which the Minister will examine. Maybe there is a reason for it. The local authority and the Minister may well be involved in it in the context of the regeneration project.
I believe it has to do with the regeneration project.
I warmly welcome the forthright manner in which the Minister has answered questions. It is clearly a new beginning which we should welcome. In regard to what Deputy Ring said earlier, I am proud to be a Dublin Deputy and I will continue to raise issues which are of concern to Dublin and, to my constituency of Dublin South West which includes Tallaght.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.