Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 25 Oct 2005

Vol. 608 No. 3

Leaders’ Questions.

Mr. Kenny

In welcoming the Australian delegation, I hope they get a flavour of the mood of the country about the second international rules test on Friday. We are under some pressure.

A number of issues could be raised here today but I have been handed the Ferns report in the past 30 minutes. It deals with sexual abuse in the Ferns diocese. This is an horrific account of appalling abuse, systemic negligence and specific failures by State agencies. The clock can never be turned back for those victims, nor can we do very much about the feelings of those who have had to live with this appalling situation for many years. However, I hope the process gone through in the publication of this report and the consequences that can be enacted will in some small way possibly offer comfort if not closure on this sad saga.

It is clear from the report that the church authorities in the diocese and elsewhere have very serious questions to answer about the persistent abuse and the church has very serious lessons to learn from what happened in Ferns to ensure that children are never put at risk in future. The State and its agencies also have responsibilities for the protection of children and young people. At times, the report criticises the response and the efficiency of the response from State authorities.

Without having had the opportunity to read the report in detail, can the Taoiseach give the House an indication of the recommendations that have been made about State agencies and Departments in the Ferns report, what discussions the Government has had about it this morning and what plans he has to implement these recommendations as a matter of urgency? I understand that many of the instances of abuse investigated in the Ferns report are relatively recent. This report covers the period from the 1960s until 2002, long after the first State guidelines were introduced in the mid-1980s. The systemic failure that allowed this abuse to continue for so long and with such devastating effect on children and their families exists to this day. It is essential that we, as legislators, react with speed and vigour to the revelations of the report. I therefore ask the Taoiseach to indicate to the House the legislative measures that will be introduced in this area and to state when this will be done. He can take it that this side of the House will facilitate the Government in every way concerning legislation of such type and consequence.

The Taoiseach

Like Deputy Kenny, I have not read all 280 pages of the report. The Government discussed it for the first time this morning and at some length. The Ferns inquiry was set up some years ago to investigate the handling of the allegations of abuse. The report is a catalogue of serial abuse and gross dereliction of duties in the diocese of Ferns. It is shocking to everybody's sense of how our children should be protected. The protection of children is the issue in question. Our thoughts go out to the victims and their families. The report outlines the full horror of their situation. While understanding the nature and effects of the child abuse perpetrated over 40 years — the report covers the period 1960 to 2002 — it catalogues the continuing failure to respond adequately to child abuse in Ferns until recent years. It is obviously shocking that the abuse was perpetrated for decades. The report will be published shortly by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Brian Lenihan, who will make a lengthy statement at that stage.

There are many recommendations in the report, with which the Government agrees in principle. Obviously, it must now proceed with the implementation phase. I acknowledge what Deputy Kenny has said in this regard. Legislative actions are required and we will bring forward legislation on these issues. We will examine the detail of all the recommendations so we can move as speedily as possible towards their implementation.

The Attorney General has had a copy of the report for the past few days and has been examining it. He gave his report thereon to the Cabinet this morning. The Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, will outline our actions. Obviously we will write to the church authorities regarding these matters and other issues we were considering in the context of earlier discussions we have had. We will act on all these matters very speedily.

Mr. Kenny

I am sure the detail in the report is absolutely scandalous and brings shame on a civilised society. I repeat that it is very necessary that this legislative body enact swiftly measures to ensure the future safety of young boys and girls and children in general.

We have heard promises for quite a long time about legislation to establish a register of persons considered unsafe to work with children. Deputy Enright introduced a Private Members' Bill on this matter last year. We have not had any response from the Government in terms of its producing its own legislation. We also await changes to the Protections for Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act 1998 and the Sex Offenders Act 2001 which were recommended by a cross-departmental body in 2004. Every Member of the House, from every party and none, will understand the importance of introducing these changes swiftly and effectively.

The Ferns report is truly a shocking wake-up call to the church and State in that so much more needs to be done in the interest of protecting young people. Whatever assistance the Government needs in terms of time or effort to deal with the necessary legislative changes, it will certainly receive it from this side of the House. Given that people have had to live for so long under the appalling circumstances that have obtained, we as a legislative body should at least unite in effect and efficiency in dealing with the legislative consequences. There is no time for more promises. A timescale should be set and this legislative body should be allowed implement the necessary changes in the interests of the children of the future.

The Taoiseach

The House knows we have passed the Protections for Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act, the Sex Offenders Act, the Child Trafficking and Pornography Act, the Children Act and the Protection of Children (Hague Convention) Act and established the Garda central vetting unit. However, we must also recognise other areas in which progress has been made. The gardaí in the diocese of Ferns have rightly prosecuted child abusers from 1990 onwards, as the report makes clear. Their omissions in the past have been corrected. Mr. Justice Murphy also emphasised the independence and integrity of the Garda over this 15-year period. The former South Eastern Health Board showed a willingness and determination to investigate and expose child sexual abuse.

Mr. Justice Murphy considered the response unit put in place in the Ferns diocese by Bishop Walsh to be adequate and reasonable. It is clear that Bishop Walsh's responsible invitation to framework guidelines, adopted by the bishops in 1996, emerged as the only positive aspect of this sorry story.

There are recommendations on which we must act. It is obviously important that we learn from past mistakes, including those of the church, to ensure the abuses that occurred never occur again. Citizens, especially parents, will rightly expect that the 1996 guidelines will continue to be implemented, not only in the diocese of Ferns but also in every other diocese. The Government will write to the church authorities to ask whether this is being done. People will also expect the recommendations of the Ferns report to be implemented. Some of the recommendations require legislation while others do not. We agree with them in principle and will immediately proceed with their implementation. Their consideration will obviously take some time given that most of us only read them this morning. They are set down by Mr. Justice Murphy and we have an obligation to act on them.

Mr. Rabbitte

The first thing the House should do is record its appreciation to Mr. Justice Murphy and his colleagues on what appears to be an insightful and coherent report on a terrible chapter in our history, and record its appreciation of the immensely courageous work of people such as Colm O'Gorman and his colleagues in One in Four who lobbied for this inquiry and did so much work to assist it.

Most people will be shocked that the institutional church was used as a cover for child abusers and shocked by the facility with which it ignored the professional advice made available. This House should hang its head in shame because we turned a blind eye to this appalling period in our history. When the Taoiseach says our task now is to ensure the abuse does not happen again, one must ask how we can be sure it is not happening now given the stark picture that is revealed of the shortcomings in our child protection system.

Does the Taoiseach agree it is important that the recommendations of Mr. Justice Murphy be implemented as speedily as possible and that the shortcomings in our child protection system be addressed? Does he agree that there should be public joint hearings on the report, its implications and recommendations involving the Select Committee on Health and Children and the Select Committee on Education and Science and that they should be held as soon as possible?

Does the Taoiseach agree that the campaign by One in Four for the creation of an offence called "reckless endangerment", to be applied where it is known that people in authority who interface with children are a threat to those children, ought to be committed to by Government? It ought to be created because the Criminal Law Act 1997 abolished all distinctions between felony and misdemeanour crimes and the offence of misprision of felony, concealing a crime — as is the case here — no longer exists.

In November 2002 the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave a commitment to my colleague, Deputy Costello, that he was finalising proposals to put to Government for a similar inquiry in the Dublin diocese. Where stands that inquiry now?

The Taoiseach

One recommendation is that the Oireachtas should consider creating a new criminal offence covering the failure to protect children from injury or sexual abuse. That recommendation must be accepted first. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave commitments on behalf of the Government regarding the Dublin diocese which still stand.

In response to the Deputy's first question, I cannot say that none of these activities is happening anywhere in Ireland today. For that reason I mentioned in reply to Deputy Kenny that we would write to the church authorities not only about the implementation of these recommendations but to ensure that their own guidelines are effectively implemented. The guidelines have been implemented in recent years in Ferns, as per this report, particularly as a result of the work of Bishop Eamonn Walsh.

I am mindful also that the report states that clerical abuse of our children probably accounts for 3% of the total abuse. I cannot say that these horrendous crimes against our children are not happening in all sorts of circumstances, whether clerical, as in this case, or in the 97% of other cases. We should be alert to that today too.

The important issue for us is that we commissioned this detailed and frightening examination which uncovers issues that will shock most, if not all, of the people and we must deal with it. We will do so on the basis of the recommendations made by the good work of Mr. Justice Murphy and highlighted by many others. I do not have time to detail the recommendations but the Government will release them soon and get on with implementing them as quickly as possible.

Mr. Rabbitte

I agree with the Taoiseach's remarks about Bishop Walsh, who seems to have transformed the climate in Ferns. Would the Taoiseach confer the authority of his office on a committee of the House, comprising the Oireachtas Joint Committees on Health and Children and Education and Science, to hold the joint hearings to which I referred on this report?

The Taoiseach says that the commitments given on the diocese of Dublin "still stand" but these date back to 2002. Some of the allegations in the Dublin diocese are, if possible, more horrific and ghoulish than the allegations made in Ferns and it is important that the Minister establish an inquiry into them without delay.

Is the Taoiseach satisfied that the attitude of the Department of Education and Science, the former health boards and the Garda Síochána, bodies to which significant blame attaches, has changed? He referred to what has happened since 1990 but before then it appears many gardaí would not even investigate this area. It seems that churchmen at the most senior level were made aware of the problem. For example, the dean whose complaint about the President of Maynooth College was passed on to the college's 17 trustees — the bishops — was despatched to a rural parish in Armagh.

This is an appalling period in our history and it is important that the Taoiseach and the Government are seen to respond to it with the rigour the people expect and the situation requires.

The Taoiseach

Legislation was passed recently to allow for examination of the Dublin cases. We awaited this report as a template. Now that we have received it we can deal with that issue and ask the church authorities in every diocese to implement the 1996 standards and these recommendations.

The Deputy may not agree when he reads the full report — I have not read it all — but I do not think there are damning indictments of the former South Eastern Health Board, the Garda Síochána or the school authorities. Certain instances are highlighted, particularly that in many cases they did not have the necessary statutory powers to deal with these matters.

Mr. Rabbitte

If we look at Monageer, for example, it was a horror.

The Taoiseach

I accept that in regard to the Monageer case. I am not arguing about that point, wherever there are deficiencies we must deal with them. The priority is to ensure that the standards established almost a decade ago are being implemented. That was not the case, the guidelines of 1996 were not fully implemented. We need to clarify the position and ensure people will co-operate with these standards from now on.

Deputy Rabbitte is right to say that in times past there was an almost total reluctance to deal with these issues. These cases date back to 1962 in one diocese. The inquiry identified 100 allegations of child sexual abuse against 21 priests in that period. By any criteria there is no doubt that is a high number of cases in one area. We must recognise, however, that we are in a different era. These cases did not surface until the late 1980s or the 1990s. We must be mindful of the situation in society generally, not just in the context of this report.

Today's priority is for the Government to deal with this report, publish it, accept the recommendations in principle and get on with their detailed examination. Many are not too difficult to move on, others require legislation and we will deal with that. The question of examinations and prosecutions also arises in this report and that will be a matter for the Attorney General to consider.

I have no difficulty with Deputy Rabbitte's suggestion that a committee of the House be formed of two committees to consider the report. This might be done in conjunction with the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Brian Lenihan.

Mr. J. Higgins

Does the Taoiseach endorse the overweening arrogance of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, who last week insulted, bullied and threatened 8,000 postal workers because they dared to exercise a democratic right to vote for industrial action over a pay dispute? Does he endorse that Minister's threat to privatise the postal service because post office workers demand the single figure wage increases which the partnership policy of the Taoiseach's Government awarded all workers three years ago under Sustaining Progress and which has not been paid? Scandalously, An Post pensioners have equally been denied these increases to try to blackmail their working colleagues. Does the Taoiseach think the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources has any moral authority in attacking workers to whom the State owes substantial amounts of money when his most recent big idea has left the taxpayer with about €52 million worth of obsolete chunks of scrap metal languishing in air-conditioned warehouses at a further cost of €1 million to the taxpayer? If I recall correctly, these machines were supposed to be used for voting.

This is the same Minister who never lost an opportunity to vilify another cohort of workers, namely teachers, when he was in a dispute with them. What next? Will he threaten to replace the postal workers with semi-bonded labour and the abuse of migrant workers such as is the case at Irish Ferries, if they do not toe his line?

Is this what partnership has come to mean for Government? Is it any wonder SIPTU members are refusing to go into talks for a new agreement when there is blatant reneging on the last agreement, which still has not been honoured?

Mr. F. McGrath

Hear, hear.

Mr. J. Higgins

There has been routine replacement of unionised jobs and rates of pay by semi-slave labour. Will the Taoiseach instruct An Post to pay its workers and pensioners what they are due and to separate this payment from other negotiations on the postal services? Will the Taoiseach introduce legislation to outlaw the replacement of established jobs with semi-bonded labour, and the grotesque exploitation of migrant workers that this means?

The Taoiseach

The Minister has spent much time in recent months and throughout the year working with management and trade unions at An Post. Late last week he had a detailed, protracted meeting with the unions in order to help, and he has made a huge commitment to bringing both sides together so An Post can resolve its difficulties and make its modernisation plans work effectively. In that way it can continue to service its customers, both business and personal. An Post knows it must change. Deputy Higgins has outlined some of the issues creating difficulty.

The blueprint for the settlement of this dispute is the Labour Court recommendation. I stand over such recommendations as I have always done in this House. To the best of my knowledge, management has accepted the recommendation and I hope the unions will accept it too. We can then deal with the other issues which are equally important for staff and management at An Post, and avoid strike action. Nobody will win if such action occurs but An Post will lose further business.

Mr. J. Higgins

My Independent colleagues in this House tell me that up and down the country, An Post provides a vital social service. However, the Government refuses to subvent or finance it. For the past three years the Government has financed it by shortchanging postal workers and more scandalously, pensioners of An Post, a very vulnerable group. The Government has then used as whipping-boys the postal workers themselves.

As the Taoiseach should know, the Labour Court recommendation was not binding because An Post insisted on that. When the union then exercised its right not to accept the recommendation, a process of vilification began. I query what justice the postal workers can hope for from the Labour Court since a few months ago, that court told Irish Ferries to go ahead with its outsourcing of labour and its bonded worker employment.

How can the Taoiseach justify pensioners in An Post being denied their increases? Will he instruct the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to value the crucial role performed in our society by thousands of workers such as those at An Post, rather than insult them? They drag themselves from their beds on cold wintry mornings many hours before most people arise. What does the Taoiseach think of the unease in the trade union movement generally because the Government has reneged on and broken the agreement the Taoiseach solemnly made with the unions three years ago?

The Taoiseach

That is not the issue currently causing difficulty in the trade union movement. The Deputy is ill-informed.

Mr. J. Higgins

What is the issue?

The Taoiseach

There are issues in An Post creating difficulties for quite a considerable time. They have been examined at great length by the Minister, the Labour Court conciliation service, the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and affiliate unions in order to advance matters. The Minister spent a long time last week addressing these issues. The Labour Court is involved in addressing the issues and though it has already made a recommendation, the Minister continues to engage with the leaders of the Communications Workers Union to solve the issue. That is the best way of resolving the matter. I urge all sides to assist in that. Nobody wants to see An Post further damaged, or an unhappy situation for management or workers. The best way to resolve the issues is collectively, so An Post can move on and implement its programme for change, generate new business and deal with its outstanding issues. This is best done in a calm environment, using the conciliation services of the State.