Vol. 703 No. 3
1 Deputy Phil Hogan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he has received a report from the chairperson of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority; the findings of this report; the recommendations of this report; when he will publish this report; if he will publish an implementation plan for any recommendations contained within this report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9856/10]
My Department wrote to the Dublin Docklands Development Authority in August 2009 requesting that a comprehensive review of corporate governance arrangements within the authority be undertaken. Consequently, the authority commissioned two independent consultants' reports to assess its planning and financial procedures. These two reports, together with a covering report from the authority's board, were submitted to me at the beginning of February and are now being considered by my Department, in consultation with the Office of the Attorney General.
I recently met the authority's chairperson, Professor Niamh Brennan, to discuss the reports and I understand that under her tenure as chair the authority's board has already introduced measures and new procedures to address many of the issues identified in the reports. I expect the consideration of the reports will be completed within a matter of weeks, at which stage I will bring to Government proposals to respond appropriately to the issues raised.
In considering the requests, my Department and the Office of the Attorney General are mindful of the need to ensure that due process is followed. However, in the interests of transparency, I intend to publish the reports following that process, subject to the advice of the Attorney General. Arising from its 2008 annual accounts, the authority has also prepared a report in respect of the Becbay joint venture. I have appointed independent financial advisers to review and analyse this report, in consultation with my Department and the Department of Finance. I intend to revert to Government on this matter, also within a matter of weeks.
Will the Minister indicate to the House if he is concerned that in excess of €230 million in accumulated deficit has arisen in an authority which is under the remit of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government? He has mentioned the fact he commissioned a report on corporate governance last August but I did not hear him say the contents of the report will include matters relating to the activities of the board, conflicts of interest and the history of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. If his reports are only based on planning, finance and procurement, they are separate issues to the activities of board members. Will the Minister confirm to the House today that all matters relating to conflicts of interest, which have been highlighted to his Department as far back as 2004 and included what was happening regarding the influence of Anglo Irish Bank and the cross-directorships of it and the board of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, will be addressed?
It is interesting how the narrative is now changing. I have seen headlines in the newspapers, to which the Deputy contributed, saying these reports were explosive, etc. The Deputy has confirmed today——
It was what the former Senator said.
——-that these matters concern planning and corporate governance. Therefore, he is indicating clearly that they may not be as explosive as he and others indicated previously. He is correct in saying that these reports want to get to the very bottom of how corporate governance operated in the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. I am happy to say my appointment of Professor Brennan has been very successful, something which Deputy Hogan has indicated.
According to who?
According to Deputy Hogan——
No, I said I welcomed the appointment; I have not seen any product.
——among others. She has done a forensic job and is following up on the recommendations contained in the report on corporate governance. The issues relating to planning are also of interest. I am genuinely concerned about the Mountbrook judgment and how it came about. It is very important it is never repeated. I want to see, as I hope the Deputy does, a functioning Dublin Docklands Development Authority. We cannot afford to throw all of the baby out with the bath water because, I think the Deputy will agree, it has done excellent work in some areas. We need to ensure that work in areas such as section 25 certificates is done properly in the future. That is why I commissioned the reports. I have no intention of sitting on reports because I was the person who appointed Professor Brennan and commissioned the reports. I want to ensure they are published and people can examine them. We can then act very effectively on their recommendations.
The Deputy can ask a brief supplementary question. We have limited time.
We always have limited time, but this matter concerns €230 million of taxpayers' money——-
I am not arguing.
——which has gone down the Swanee and was spent on activities at the behest of cross-directorships. The Minister has not confirmed to the House that he has examined all of the conflicts of interest which have emerged regarding these matters. He has not indicated to me today that any degree of accountability is being sought from people who were on the various sub-committees of the boards over the years who were making these decisions. If the Minister wants to whitewash all the decisions which were made by the board and several other boards over the years, that is his prerogative. However, his credibility is on the line in regard to getting to the truth.
I welcome the appointment of Professor Brennan, but I want to make sure she is getting the support of the Minister in commissioning reports which will not hide behind a particular process. We should know the names of individuals, the transactions and the truth about what has gone on to accumulate €230 million in losses over the past number of years because of a golden circle between Anglo Irish Bank and the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, in terms of cross-directorships. The Minister should tell us when he will have reports on corporate governance and the activities of the board, apart from the planning and finance functions, available to the House in order that we can discuss all of these matters in a truthful fashion.
Exactly.
I condemn unequivocally any misuse of public funds. Professor Brennan has my total support. She knows that. I have met her to discuss these reports. I again emphasis the fact I was the one who commissioned these reports. I did so——
We know that from former Senator Deirdre de Búrca.
I did so to ensure——
Deputy Hogan, allow the Minister to finish his reply.
The Deputy mentioned the former Senator. It would have been an interesting and proper question to ask if I had read the reports. Of course, I am the only person in the Cabinet who has read the reports.
We would expect the Minister to read something.
I am afraid the Deputy may be looking for something he cannot achieve.
If the Minister has no problem with them he should publish them.
What are they sitting on his desk for?
He is looking for a major story. He knows the situation and the people who were involved.
We have enough stories without looking for them.
He knows the situation and the people who were involved.
The ball is in the Minister's court.
He knows that there were developers. My Department does not take donations from developers, unlike the Deputy's party.
Hold on. On a point of order——
That is the situation.
Deputy, the Minister is in possession.
On a point of information——
I have probably hit a nerve, but that is the situation.
On a point of order or whatever you want——
What do you mean by "whatever you want"? It is or is not a point of order.
What is the point of order?
Whatever you want.
Minister, withdraw the allegation that, in some way, because Fine Gael is in the business of accepting donations for elections he has a problem with it, in terms of a conflict of interest in dealing with these matters.
No, I am saying——
Withdraw that remark.
I will not.
Withdraw that remark.
I have no intention of doing anything.
He should not be engaging in a smoke-screen because his credibility is on the line about getting to the truth. His Department knows since 2004——
Deputy Hogan, please.
Since 2004 there were representatives from his Department on the board of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. What did they do?
Hold on.
What did they do?
It would be very interesting to check if the Deputy had political representatives who were invited——
He is the Minister. I will ask the questions and he will answer them.
——and if other parties were represented, in particular the committees which dealt with the Becbay acquisition. It is a very good question to ask. Let us see what the political involvement is. We will get to the bottom of this.
What is the Minister spraying around now?
One thing will be clear.
Is he spraying sludge from Ringsend again?
Deputy Hogan, please.
There seems to be very little point in talking in this Chamber any more because people do not want to listen. That is the problem.
We are listening to the Minister now.
I have given the information.
We are listening to nonsense.
We will move on.
He does not like the information. What can one do?
People on the board of the authority are still conflicted.
Really. Who are they?
I will name them for the Minister on another occasion.
There is limited time for each priority question, and we are losing it.
There are two conflicted people on the board.
This is very interesting. The Deputy has a public duty to name those people.
I will decide that. There are two conflicted people.
No, the Deputy should do so now.
It is up to the Minister to find that out.
He is the Minister.
Do so now.
It is up to the Minister to find out that.
The Deputy says he has information. He should do so now.
The Minister knows everything.
The Deputy cannot make assertions like that.
The Minister is spraying sludge from Ringsend.
He is hoping someone will print what he says and it will be left hanging. The Deputy has a duty to name those people and follow up and substantiate what he is saying. I will act accordingly.
The Minister can check this.
2 Deputy Joanna Tuffy asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government if he has been advised by local authorities of problems in new housing developments in which domestic water pipes froze during January 2010 due to the fact these pipes had not been laid correctly by developers; if his attention has been drawn to any such incidences; the steps he will instruct local authorities to take to ensure that new housing developments have satisfactory laying of domestic water pipes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9670/10]
The problem of frozen or burst water pipes in residential settings was raised with my Department following the onset two months ago of sustained low temperatures across the country.
My Department's recommendations for site development works for housing areas, recommend, among other things, that water mains pipes should have a standard minimum cover of 900 mm and that water mains pipe size and layout should be designed in consultation with the local authority. Provision for a standard minimum cover of 900 mm will ensure that water mains pipes are well below the frost level, which is 450 mm. In addition, technical guidance document G (Hygiene) of the building regulations provides that, in regard to bathrooms and kitchens in dwellings, the cisterns, service pipe and fittings, and any associated cold water pipes should be adequately protected against damage by frost.
My Department's policy guidance on taking in charge of residential estates states that planning authorities must adopt construction standards for residential developments that are acceptable to the planning authority for taking in charge and long-term maintenance, and that it should be a condition of planning permission that such standards be adhered to. The guidance further states that it is necessary for the planning authority to satisfy itself, when the developer of a residential estate has ceased construction or notified the planning authority that construction is complete, or after the planning permission has expired, that the development is properly completed in line with the planning permission and, where it is not properly completed, to take early and effective enforcement action.
Although I am satisfied that the appropriate policy measures are in place I have asked my Department to issue a circular letter to local authorities in order to remind them of their responsibilities in respect of this matter as outlined above.
I thank the Minister for his reply. There is an issue here which has been raised by local and national media. On a local radio station a senior engineer, Mr. Brian Ross of Longford County Council, spoke about pipes not being laid properly. He said this was a major problem for the council because until they are able to take over the estates, dig up and relay the pipes householders may face this problem again. That is only one example. The Irish Independent raised the matter in connection with another issue about building regulations and asked whether there was compliance by builders and whether there were sufficient inspections. Ultimately, it is householders and taxpayers who pay for badly built new housing estates and badly laid water pipes.
The Minister set out the policy, the guidelines, the building regulations and so on. The problem is that the guidelines are not being adhered to. Perhaps it is the responsibility of the councils to inspect but do they have the capacity to do so? Obviously, they are not doing this in all housing estates and in every house. What is the Minister doing to ensure there are more inspections and enforcements? In the latest cold spell housing estates were identified where builders did not lay pipes properly. What action will be taken in respect of those builders?
The Deputy is referring to building control enforcement. Under the Building Control Act 1990 the national building regulations set minimum standards for all buildings, including dwellings, which must comply with the requirements of the building regulations with effect from 1 June 1992. The regulations apply to the construction of new buildings and material alterations, extensions or change of use of existing buildings. The Deputy will be familiar with the various parts of the building regulations. As a Department, we have set an inspection target of between 12% and 15% of all buildings covered by valid commencement notices. Our most recent statistics, covering the period from 1 January to 30 June 2009, show that all the building control authorities except Kilkenny met or exceeded the target, giving a general average of 28% of all buildings inspected. The data for the first six months of 2009 show that 2,349 building inspections were carried out, a marked decrease compared to the 11,034 inspections in 2008. The Deputy will know this is because of the slump in new building output. A total of 34 enforcement notices were served by the building control agency in 2008. Twenty were served in the first six months of 2009.
We are very much aware of this problem and are trying to ensure we meet those targets. I assure the Deputy that although it is not expected there will be any significant issue concerning the installation of pipes, we have looked at the issue and we know there is a problem because of what has come to our notice. We are being very vigilant in that regard. It is fair to say, however, that in regard to all new buildings we will ensure that maximum cover is given and that our building inspectors will do that.
The Minister gave statistics for the number of inspections carried out. Does he have any in regard to compliance? When the Minister's party was in opposition, Deputy Trevor Sargent raised the issue of low compliance with building regulations, his view at the time being that this was very low. He said he had information from Sustainable Energy Ireland. That related to a different matter of compliance but obviously reflects on compliance in other areas too. Does the Minister have any statistics with regard to actual levels of compliance?
Will he ask local authorities to take action against builders of estates who were discovered in the recent cold spell to have laid their pipes too low? Will he urge that action be taken in regard to the developers and housing estates in question?
Is the Minister considering amending the building regulations to make builders supply items such as rainwater or greywater tanks or dual flush cisterns? Will he ask that more be done in respect of water conservation in upcoming building regulations?
I shall answer the last part of the question first. This is something we want to look at. As the Deputy knows, we already altered the building regulations in order to ensure we have the highest energy efficiency standards. We have increased them from 40% to a greater energy efficiency of 60%. We want to go to carbon neutrality. Related to that is the entire issue of water conservation. I want to look at that issue and the Deputy is right to point it out. Despite what we may all think and despite the fact it falls from the skies, treated water is a very scarce resource. The idea behind rainwater harvesting is that such water can be used, not for drinking purposes but for watering the garden or washing the car, or whatever, and therefore treated water need not be used. I am looking at this issue and I hope we can ensure all new buildings will have facilities to conserve water.
In addition, the Deputy may know we have changed the regulations to ensure there are dual-flush toilets. That also has the effect of conserving water.
In the first part of her question, the Deputy asked whether local authorities will take action against developers. This is primarily a matter for the local authorities but in my discussions with managers I shall raise the matter to investigate whether they are taking appropriate action against what we might call rogue developers, or those who have not complied properly with their obligations.
3 Deputy Phil Hogan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when he will publish the White Paper on local government reform; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9857/10]
I published the Green Paper on local government, Stronger Local Democracy — Options for Change, in April 2008. This was followed by an extensive programme of national consultation for the purposes of informing the preparation of the White Paper on local government. This will set out policy on a wide range of local government issues and will be of great importance to the future of the local government system and its stakeholders.
The environment has altered considerably since April 2008, not least due to the severe economic downturn. Work on the White Paper has also had to have regard to the report of the Commission on Taxation, the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes and the renewed programme for Government. The approach to the White Paper is now under consideration by Government. A Cabinet committee has been established to finalise the major strategic issues to be included in the paper. While this may take some additional time, it is essential that we get the White Paper right, that it is grounded in today's challenges, contains appropriate ambition and is readily implementable.
However, I am continuing to take significant local government initiatives in the meantime. As announced in the budget, I established the local government efficiency review group in December to review the cost base, expenditure of and numbers employed in local authorities. Last week, I established the Limerick local government committee to prepare a report into the most appropriate arrangements for local government for the city and county of Limerick. Yesterday, I published the general scheme of the legislation to provide for the mayor for Dublin. The Government decision to introduce a directly elected mayor for Dublin in 2010, and the general scheme to provide for it, marks a first and significant step in implementing broader local government change. I anticipate that many of the policy decisions in the White Paper will require further legislation over the coming years.
The Minister promised the White Paper by the end of December 2008 but we still do not have it over a year later. A Cabinet sub-committee has been set up to rein in some of the Minister's madness in regard to some of his proposals in the Green Paper. There will be a delay because Fianna Fáil does not like what the Minister is doing.
In principle, Fine Gael has no problem with the directly elected mayor of Dublin.
Because it would probably get it.
However, 2014 is the appropriate time to have that because we want to initially develop functions from central Government to local government and the councillors. I do not see why there should be four local authorities, 130 public representatives and the appointment of a person who is effectively the glorified chairperson of a city development board. Does the Minister accept there is much work to do at a time of recession and that a cost of €5 million to set another layer of bureaucracy and another individual at the centre of local government in Dublin, when the person will not have any powers, is unjustified?
First, I am not in any way being reined in. The fact is that in the context of the renewed programme for Government, if anything, my ideas are gaining momentum. The whole idea----
The Minister has work to do.
The whole idea behind regional government, which I know the Deputy disagrees with——
Yes, I disagree with it.
The fact is that this is what we are going to implement in the context of the White Paper. It is very important, when talking about regional government, that one actually gets it right. There are contentious issues around borders — literally, where one draws the line — and we are going through this step by step. I can report that we had an excellent meeting yesterday and that I am getting full and total support from my Cabinet colleagues in this regard.
The Deputy referred to the directly elected mayor. It is very unusual for a Minister to design a job for a member of the Opposition. Despite all the Deputy's misgivings, there will be a queue around the corner in his own party looking for this job.
Far from it.
I assure him of that.
We know it will not affect the Minister's party.
The Deputy then will be very happy with that. It is a powerful position, as well as being a job that is required. Having consulted widely, we are doing it.
The Deputy referred to the four local authorities. Who came up with the idea of the four local authorities? It was Garret Fitzgerald and Fine Gael.
We are talking about the Minister's party.
We are talking about the present.
I am dealing with a legacy of so-called local government reform from Fine Gael. It came up with those ideas and with the number of councillors, and I am trying to deal with that. It will take a while to evolve because allegiances and systems have developed which cannot be changed overnight. I am trying to integrate the position of mayor of Dublin into that.
What we have come up with is a very cost-effective system. The Deputy quoted the figure of €5 million, which, in the overall scheme, is not a significant amount. The sort of efficiency, innovation and drive that will result for this city is well worth it. This has been called for over many years but nobody has delivered on it. I intend to deliver on it in Government.
It is tokenism.
I suggest that if there are efficiencies to be achieved, they should be achieved without reference to anything else that is happening. The four local authorities are doing the best they can in the current system — I have no difficulty with them. What the Minister is doing is seeking to put another layer of political bureaucracy on top of the four local authorities instead of reviewing the role and remit of the four local authorities in a regional sense at the time he is putting forward this legislation.
Will the Minister confirm he is having difficulties with his partners in Government in regard to the powers and remit of the person of mayor?
I did not say that.
He did. He would not need a Cabinet sub-committee for something that was as straightforward as the Minister suggested. Does the Minister accept that this directly elected mayor of Dublin will have no power, effectively no budget, there will effectively be no Dublin Transport Authority and that what he is engaging in, in the middle of a recession, is a waste of money?
That is nonsense. Every point the Deputy has made is nonsensical. First, this is a very powerful position. If the Deputy has read the heads——
I have read them.
——he will see under head 38 that the mayor can intervene directly and has the power to direct — the mayor is the boss. This is modelled directly on the London mayoralty and I have taken many soundings from Mr. Ken Livingstone and others.
That is a long way from the Dublin mayoralty.
In regard to the budget, again, because of his power to direct, the mayor can greatly influence the €1.3 billion annual budget. I do not see where the Deputy's difficulty lies.
Of course, there is one issue on which we can perhaps have a debate, namely, local government funding. The Fine Gael party leader was asked a few weeks ago what his position was on water charges. He did not have a position.
We have a position.
I wonder whether Fine Gael has had time to think about the issues since then. What is its position? I would like the Deputy to tell the people out there what is its position on a simple issue like that.
We ask the questions.
All modern cities have water charges and domestic property taxes. This is taken as the norm. Yet, Fine Gael cannot even come up with a position on water charges. Why can it not do that? It is because it cannot take tough decisions on anything — that is the difficulty. Instead of waffling on, when the Deputy talks about the four local authorities, he should remember his party came up with the idea of the four local authorities — it was its idea.
I am not the one criticising them. The Minister is criticising them.
The Deputy is.
I am not.
He asks how we are going to integrate the four local authorities. I am giving him the solution to that. It is an extensive piece of legislation, 200 pages long. If the Deputy studies its provisions, he will see the position is a powerful one. I reiterate that I have no doubt there are members of the Deputy's party who will be gagging for this position.
When will the Minister roll out the property tax? Will the money gathered under that taxation measure, which is supposed to fund local government, be ring-fenced for the mayor of Dublin in respect of every dwelling in Dublin, as would be appropriate?
That is a separate question.
It concerns the financing of local government, a subject that was introduced by the Minister.
I am happy to answer. I see that Fine Gael supports the property tax.
Where did the Minister get that notion?
The Deputy just asked——
I asked the Minister when he will roll out the property tax?
We will proceed on the basis that whoever is on his or her feet is in possession.
Now that the Deputy is banging the table, demanding it, I will give him an answer. He already knows that we have a domestic property tax on second homes. The Deputy pooh-poohed the idea and said it would not work.
I supported the legislation. What more does the Minister want? He should stop waffling.
It has been very successful. I tried to consult the Deputy on the legislation. He said it would not work but it has been very successful. Those are the facts.
What is the Minister's position on the property tax?
I have just told the Deputy — I introduced one.
When?
I introduced one.
We must move on.
Excuse me, a Cheann Comhairle. When will the Minister, with his Cabinet colleagues, allow for the financing of local government through a property tax for all homes? When will it be rolled out?
Deputy, it seems that——
Will it be part of local government financing in the context of the White Paper on local government reform?
Precise details of these matters would need another parliamentary question.
We are discussing the White Paper on local government reform which includes financing local government. I ask the Minister when will a property tax be rolled out for local government.
I have already answered that question.
He has not answered that question.
He will not answer it.
The Minister referred to second homes but what about all homes?
Please, Deputy Hogan. We will deal with it later on.
It is stated in the programme for Government review that there will be a property tax.
It is in the White Paper and the Deputy will have to await the White Paper.
I have not seen the White Paper yet.
4 Deputy Phil Hogan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the contact he has had with the Economic and Social Research Institute concerning its report into waste disposal options; his views on its central conclusions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9858/10]
I have not had any direct contact with the ESRI concerning its report on waste management. I have, however, noted the contents of the report and have expressed concerns as to the accuracy of certain material contained in it. It is my understanding that the institute is currently reviewing the report on foot of comments following its publication and will be issuing a response shortly.
One example of acknowledged inaccuracies contained in the report is the statement that the emissions from the Poolbeg incinerator would be covered by the European emissions trading scheme. In addition, given that the waste hierarchy, the Polluter Pays principle and the proximity principle, besides being fundamental principles for optimal waste management, are also subject to binding legal requirements under the revised waste framework directive, 2008, I am concerned that the necessity of meeting Ireland's obligations under EU legislation does not appear to be fully appreciated by the authors of the report.
I will await the response of the ESRI to concerns expressed regarding the report. The report comments on it and the response by the ESRI will be considered in the context of the development of a new policy statement on waste management which I will be bringing to Government shortly and publishing for public consultation.
Has the author of the report of the international review group on waste in Ireland received a copy of the report? Has he commented on the accuracy or otherwise of the ESRI report and will he make that information available?
I can confirm that the principal author of the report, Dr. Dominic Hogg, author of the Eunomia report, has been in contact with the ESRI. He has compiled a very large response to the ESRI report, pointing out the major flaws contained in that report. I understand he will be making that information public. These are independent consultants, as are the ESRI and so I cannot force anybody to publish that information but I understand he is making it publicly available.
I have a final question. What is Government policy relating to incineration, rather than ministerial statements?
This was outlined. The Dublin city manager and others were trying to confuse matters. It is unequivocal and we have pointed this out. I refer the Deputy to the renewed programme for Government, where the matter is highlighted.
The Government decision?
Yes and it is very clear. I am proceeding with the cap on incineration. I will consult on that matter and a strategic environmental assessment must be carried out. This requires a broad consultation with the key stakeholders. I am very clear in my view on incineration but I am not sure if the Deputy's party is entirely clear in its view. I note that Councillor Naoise Ó Muirí, chairperson of the environment and engineering strategic policy committee of Dublin City Council, is clearly in favour of constructing a 600,000 tonne incinerator——
He is entitled to his view but that is not Fine Gael policy.
——and I would like to hear the Deputy's view because I understand the Deputy and his party seem to be in favour of it and I have not heard anything to the contrary.
No. I asked the Minister for his view.
5 Deputy Terence Flanagan asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the amount by which the budget for social housing has been reduced for 2010; the amount of the funding that has been reduced for each local authority; the way this compares to the 2009 figure; the number of new social homes that are expected to be built in 2010 in each local authority area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9859/10]
As set out in the 2010 Revised Estimates for Public Services, the social housing budget across capital and current expenditure programmes is €1,071 billion. This represents a decrease of 18% when compared to the provisional outturn figures for 2009.
The Government's key priorities in shaping the overall housing provision for next year have been to focus the impact of necessary adjustments on the areas in which there is scope to maintain output through more flexible approaches and where the policy context supports such approaches, and to continue to direct available capital resources substantially towards the most vulnerable and disadvantaged. In keeping with this strategy, the reform programme, now well underway in my Department, involves a shift away from construction-acquisition and a one-size-fits-all approach to meeting social housing needs towards a more graduated system of supports. This refocusing in policy and financial terms is rooted in the clearly articulated rationale set out in the Government's housing policy statement, Delivering Homes, Sustaining Communities.
While the allocations to local authorities for 2010, when finalised, will show a reduction in the provision for the main traditional local authority programme, I anticipate that, through more flexible market-based delivery mechanisms such as the rental accommodation scheme and long-term leasing, as well as the continued significant support for the capital assistance scheme in 2010, delivery across the range of social housing measures next year will be of the order of 8,000 to 9,000 units. Of this total, I expect approximately half of all units delivered to come through a combination of leasing and RAS, the other half through new builds and acquisitions.
I thank the Minister of State. The situation is extreme with close to 100,000 people on social housing waiting lists yet we are only talking about 8,000 to 10,000 accommodation places. This is completely unacceptable. The social housing budget has been drastically cut by almost 20% and long-term leasing is not achieving any value for money for the taxpayer. There should be an opportunity for equity in these homes to be purchased so that the taxpayer gets more bang for the buck. The rental accommodation scheme spent €441 million of taxpayers' money in 2008 and with very little to show for it. These people need permanent accommodation. People in social housing do not want to be moved from house to house and from city to city. The Minister of State's priority should be to give them permanent accommodation and to give them a place called home. I await the Minister of State's response and that there will be an opportunity for equity to be purchased in these homes rather than the money being given to developers yet again.
I stated that 8,000 to 9,000 equated to 50% of the build. The Deputy will appreciate we are talking about a figure in the region of up to 18,000 households.
There are still 100,000 on the waiting lists.
The Deputy said there were 100,000 people; there are 56,000 households. Many people already are receiving supports such as the rent supplement scheme. Opportunities exist for local authorities and voluntary bodies. The Deputy will be aware that in September 2009 I extended to the voluntary bodies the opportunity to go into long-term leasing. This is proving very successful. Even though it is a new scheme, we were in a position to acquire over 2,000 homes in 2009 and we set a target of between 4,000 and 4,500 for 2010.
It is a drop in the ocean.
If those homes were to be built on an acquisition basis, it would cost in the region of €800 million and I am in a position to deliver those homes for less than a quarter of that sum. These are new homes in perfect condition which will be inspected by the local authorities and people will have a tenure of ten, 15, 20 or even up to 40 years.
As regards the final question, I have not finally decided on the matter of lease to purchase. The Deputy will be aware, as a result of a question from a Member from his side of the House, either Deputy Hogan or Deputy Deasy, I showed how flexible I am as regards the scheme when I said I would consider a build to lease arrangement. I am aware that in some areas there may not be houses available for leasing so alternatives and variants are being considered. I am already in discussions with local authorities as regards the very question raised by the Deputy, whether we should move towards lease to purchase. I am taking into consideration the views of different local authorities and those of my Department.
While we welcome the Minister of State's flexibility and his work in this area, much more needs to be done to get value for taxpayers' money and to ensure we will have an equity stake — an asset — at the end of the day. We need to make sure this is not just rental money that is going into other people's pockets without a physical asset being made available. The priority should be to ensure there will be equity. Finally, can the Minister of State give us an update on the roll-out of the incremental purchase scheme under the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009?
The Deputy suggested we should have an asset at the end of the day. Those of us who spent many years as members of local authorities are aware that limited assets are available to local authorities. It is rare for houses that have been allocated to become available again. In some cases, they are retained by the second and third generations of families. There is nothing wrong with that.
Does the Minister of State remember Pádraig Flynn's sale of the century?
We are having a sale very shortly of apartments in which people have been living for many years. Some of them are second generation apartments.
Yes.
Many people have tried that in the past. My colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, pioneered that. He pushed it through and got it included in the legislation. On the Deputy's final point, I hope to be in a position to make an announcement on pilot areas for the incremental purchase scheme pretty soon.
Good.
