Shane McEntee
Ceist:48 Deputy Shane McEntee asked the Minister for Transport if he will confirm that funding will be maintained in the rural transport programme in 2011; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42690/10]
Other Questions
Rural Transport Services
Denis Naughten
Ceist:57 Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Transport his plans for the rural transport initiative; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42618/10]
Jack Wall
Ceist:83 Deputy Jack Wall asked the Minister for Transport his plans to expand the rural transport link; the number of services in operation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39281/10]
I propose to take questions Nos. 48, 57 and 83 together.
Some 36 rural community transport groups are being funded under my Department's rural transport programme, which is operational in every county. These groups are working towards maximising coverage in their operational areas having regard to local public transport service needs and the availability of resources. I understand that on average some 13,600 transport services a month are now being provided under the programme. In addition, a number of pilot transport projects have been undertaken in the north east and north west to explore the potential for improved synergies between existing transport providers.
The outcome of these projects, together with those of the recently completed exercise to map all transport services in County Louth and a cross-Border pilot rural community transport project under the auspices of the British-Irish Council, will feed into the process for developing rural transport policy into the future. Some €11 million is being provided for the programme this year. Consideration of further funding for the programme will be considered by the Government in the context of the budget for 2011 and later years.
I have a number of specific questions. I recognise that rural transport requires a State subsidy and is quite complex in its make-up. Is the Minister satisfied that the €196 million per year currently being paid for school transport, in the context of rural transport, as well as the average €25 million per year spent on providing HSE transport, largely made up of hiring taxis in rural areas, represents the best delivery structure for a cost-effective rural transport system?
I am not satisfied that we are getting the kind of value we might be able to achieve if the system had more integration. That is why we have initiated some of the projects being discussed. There was one in operation for a while with the HSE in Cork as well. We should be able to get better value for money and that is the reason those projects have been put in place. It is also the reason I asked Bus Éireann, the Department of Education and Skills, the HSE and my Department to try to formulate a better integrated system.
We can do better on rural transport, and the Deputy is probably aware that there are a number of voluntary groups with their own transport which may be integrated into the process. I have asked groups and officials from my Department to engage with the National Transport Authority to see if this can be pulled together to reduce costs generally in the system while improving the service at the same time.
I am glad the Minister has indicated he is not happy with the current system and that it is not sufficiently integrated. Does the Minister have any thoughts on combining some of the services being provided on one side by the HSE, which are very costly, with school transport on the other side, where separate fleets of vehicles are being used? Has he considered bringing on board local authorities, which are providers of very considerable services throughout the country? An integrated system is the only way we will be able to make a rural transport service functional in any decent capacity.
My aim in this regard is to try to combine services and ensure we get value for money. It is a good area and we could get more with less money even than we are talking about now. As Deputy Coveney noted, it is a complicated area and we are talking about network planning. Bus Éireann have experts in this regard and with the school bus service, for example, a considerable number of providers are on contract to CIE; they are not employees of the company. I am not sure how many of those would be available during the course of the day. It should be sufficient to give a reasonably integrated service throughout the country.
The Deputies made points about the HSE and health services and there was a very good system in operation for a while in the hospital in Drogheda. A minibus brought people to a clinic and they were taken in the first couple of hours. After some time for a cup of tea or coffee, they were brought back. The two systems married well. Unfortunately, a change in personnel in the hospital blew that out of the water but we should be capable of providing such programmes to ensure a good service.
I welcome the fact that the Minister is open to suggestions in this regard. I ask the Minister to include in such a review the following issue. With more emphasis on preventing drunk driving in the past few years, people in remote rural areas, especially younger people, have no way to go home at night from discos, etc. I have travelled through several towns in the past few months late at night and could see such people waiting in a queue in the cold, with some walking home. It is unfair and the issue should be examined. Will the Minister consider this as it is a matter of controversy and concern?
I will consider it but we must ensure that some of the cost would be met by those who benefit most from people being out late at night.
It is not as simple as that.
There is a social aspect that probably requires a State subsidy from a road safety perspective. Will the Minister consider clustering services, whether they are for the HSE, school transport or some other rural transport service provision? Will he allow the private sector to compete for the business through an outsourcing tendering process so as to encourage people to come forward with cost-effective solutions for a cluster of problems within counties or regions? Bus Éireann will be part of that competitive process but there are plenty of private operators, some of which are operating under contract to Bus Éireann now, which would love to have the opportunity to tender for this business if given the opportunity.
Many rural transport groups use private transport and Bus Éireann is hardly involved at all in the provision of these services. Pobal makes the specific funding available to individual rural transport programmes and contracts services.
In some cases, rural transport programmes may have their own vehicles but the one of which I am aware in Meath does give facilities and business to the private sector. I have no difficulty with that. It is a good idea that we should have competition.
Motorway Service Stations
Phil Hogan
Ceist:49 Deputy Phil Hogan asked the Minister for Transport if he will instruct the National Roads Authority to redraft the guidelines around motorway service stations to encourage private investment in these vital service areas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42676/10]
As Minister for Transport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding in regard to the national roads programme element of Transport 21. The implementation of individual national road projects, including service areas, is a matter for the National Roads Authority in conjunction with the local authorities concerned.
Section 54 of the Roads Act 1993 specifically provides for the NRA or a local authority to provide and-or operate service areas. In 2005, the then Minister for Transport asked the NRA to review its policy of generally not providing service areas on national roads, particularly on the expanding network of access-controlled motorways and dual carriageways. Arising from this review, the NRA developed a programme for the provision of up to 12 service areas on the major inter-urban routes as well as the N6-N18 junction and the N11 route at intervals of approximately 50-60 km. Two documents relating to the NRA's policy on the provision of service areas are available on their website at www.nra.ie.
The NRA has completed the delivery of the first tranche of three service areas under a PPP programme — two on the M1 and one on the M4. A further service area at Gorey on the M11 is scheduled to be constructed as part of the N11 Rathnew-Arklow and N7 Newlands Cross junction improvement schemes.
The NRA proposals for other service areas are progressing through the planning process. However, the construction of these service areas is heavily dependent on the availability of funds and the prioritisation of projects within a reduced capital budget. In light of this, I have advised the IR — I am sorry, I meant the NRA — that it should consider other options to finance the provision of service areas which do not require Exchequer funding.
Clearly, Gerry Adams is getting a bit close to the Minister.
He is not in my constituency.
He is nearly bordering it.
I do not understand why this question is not grouped with Question No. 54, which deals with more or less the same issue. I drive from Cork to Dublin most weeks. I leave Cork at 10 p.m. and often drive home on a Thursday evening at a similar time. This is not only a serious road safety issue in that there is nowhere to pull in on the motorway between Dublin and Cork once one passes Naas, it is also a danger in terms of being able to refuel as there is only a small number of 24-hour petrol stations close to that route. Nonetheless, the main issue is a road safety one, namely, people falling asleep at the wheel when they should be provided with service stations to get a cup of coffee and fill up on fuel.
This is standard practice with motorway infrastructure in other parts of Europe, certainly in Britain, where there is a very good road safety record, as the Minister will know. It is not good enough for the NRA to state we simply cannot afford to do proceed at present because we do not have the resources. This is something the private sector should and can do but it probably requires a change in the criteria we currently require in terms of all the facilities that must be provided to make a service area viable.
Will the Minister talk to the NRA in regard to redrafting the guidelines in order to attract private sector investment in the provision of service areas on motorways such as the Cork-Dublin motorway?
That is precisely what I asked the NRA to do, and I asked it to come back to me with proposals for service areas along these routes that would not cost the Exchequer anything. I agree with the Deputy that the private sector should be in a position to do this, although the NRA has informed me that part of the reason service areas were not provided for initially was that it thought the private sector would come in to provide them. When it was discovered it was not doing that, the policy was changed in 2005. While we are now in the financial situation we are in, I have no problem with the Deputy's suggestion that the private sector should provide these service areas and I have asked the NRA to come back with proposals that would allow the private sector to do so.
The Minister has partly answered the question. Why, in the first instance, was this not an integral part of all major road construction projects? How could the NRA have contemplated links between Dublin and the main cities of Cork, Galway, Limerick, Waterford and Wexford without having service stations along the route? Anyone in their right mind who has travelled on a road would recognise that this was par for the course and the norm in any other country.
The Minister said the NRA was asked to review this in 2005, which is five years ago. Virtually all of the main routes have opened since then and much work could have taken place to ensure some formula was found to enable most of the new routes to have service stations by now.
As the Deputy knows, while all of the routes are now being finalised, many of them had gone through the planning process in 2005 and the ones that had not, namely, the M1 and M4, have service areas. It would be unfair to characterise the NRA as not being in favour of providing the service areas as it certainly is in favour of it and it understands the arguments in this regard. It is a matter of coming up with the ways and means of providing service areas without taking money away from road building projects.
A number of private developers have obtained planning approvals for offline facilities, including at the M7 Mayfield junction at Monasterevin and in a number of locations on the M6 and M8, including at Kilcullen, as well as a number of others in various locations. In response to both Deputies, the NRA has been asked to try to come up with a formula that will allow these to be built.
There was no planning for service stations on most of the roads, particularly the Dublin-Cork road. Will the Minister have the NRA allow the erection of signage from a road safety perspective? People are driving the roads but they do not know where to get off to have a cup of tea, to refuel or otherwise. Given these stops have not been built, signage is needed. We have contacted the NRA several times in this regard but it will not allow signage to be erected. In the interim, I ask that this be done as well as allowing the projects to be progressed.
The NRA has allowed for signage for offline services and this has been provided on all of the major inter-urban routes. There are criteria in this regard and in regard to identifying the appropriate locations. It is based on the proximity of a particular premises or facility to an interchange and on an indication of whether the operator can provide the facilities to which Deputy Coveney referred, such as fuel and toilet facilities.
Metro North
John O'Mahony
Ceist:50 Deputy John O’Mahony asked the Minister for Transport the cost of Metro North to the State over a 25 year contractual period by giving an estimate based on the lowest and highest tenders the Government received; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42674/10]
Since 1 December 2009, the implementation of Metro North is a matter for the National Transport Authority. My Department's policy on the release of cost and economic information on transport projects is designed to protect the taxpayer's interest. There is a balance to be struck between promoting public transparency and ensuring value for money in this regard.
The Railway Procurement Agency is currently involved in an ongoing PPP procurement process for Metro North with two bidding groups. There is a risk that releasing any information on tenders received in regard to Metro North would provide an indication of what the State is prepared to pay for the project. Bidders involved in the project could then focus their final bids at that level instead of at the lowest price at which they can deliver the project. Given the reasons I have outlined, it is clear that it would not be in the public interest to release any information which has the potential to increase the cost to the taxpayer of delivering this project. The National Transport Authority, NTA, has made available on its website a redacted version of the most up-to-date business case for metro north. The NTA has had the business case independently reviewed and has confirmed that the cost-benefit analysis for the project remains strong. My Department and the implementing agencies have undertaken to provide relevant economic and financial information on projects at an appropriate time but without compromising the commercial sensitivity attached to the projects.
It is important to cut to the chase. It is no longer a matter for the National Transport Authority or the Railway Procurement Agency. They continue to work on metro north. The issues around metro north relate to whether the Government will sanction it and this is the issue I would like the Minister to address. There is great uncertainty around what is likely to be the biggest infrastructure project in the State for the next decade and people do not know where we stand. They do not know whether the Government will sanction the €75 million which will be necessary next year to conclude the tendering process and carry out the ancillary works required before any major project can begin. Will the Minister give an indication of his and the Government's view on metro north at this stage? Is it going ahead or not?
It is wonderful that no matter how often a Minister stands up and says a project is going ahead, all it takes is one newspaper article for someone to say it is not going ahead.
Give us some clarity. That is why I have asked the question.
I stand clearly on the record as recently as last Friday down in Gort.
The Minister has not done so here.
That is a definite answer indeed.
Again, no answer.
Finally last month, the railway order was granted by An Bord Pleanála. However, it was granted in such a manner that there are certain curtailments to the project, including approximately 2 km of track to be removed at Belinstown and the proposed depot being switched to another site. Consequently, the Railway Procurement Agency, RPA, must apply for a new railway order.
A question, Deputy.
Consequently, there will be some delay in the project. The signing of any contracts will not take place soon. It might be well in 2012 or later.
The Deputy is correct to note that An Bord Pleanála made a change to the terminal for metro north and has not allowed the depot to go ahead at Belinstown. However, he is not correct to suggest that a new railway order will be necessary. A planning issue must be dealt with for the depot. The NTA and the RPA have estimated that because of the way the planning permission is worded there will be approximately a six month delay. They hope to be in a position to have the matter out of the way in six months but it will have a knock-on effect. This will mean the actual construction will begin sometime in 2012 but it does not affect the commencement of the facilitating works, which must be carried out before the contractors come on site.
I wish to have the Minister on the record of the House regarding his commitment to metro north. Will the Minister clarify what he stated in Gort last week? I was not there at the time.
I will send the Deputy the blacks of all the times I have stated that I believe this is a very good project which should go ahead. The situation is that we have got the railway order for it. The next procedure is to get the bidders. When the bids come in——
I understand the procedure. Is the Government committed or not?
Let me inform the House of the procedure because I have no wish for the Deputy to come to the House at the next Question Time and state, "You said it was going ahead".
We are very short of time. Will the Minister answer the question, please?
When the bids are finalised I must bring a cost-benefit analysis to Government and, once that is done, the Government will make that decision. However, provision is being made for metro north in the capital programme into the future.
A Deputy
The Minister might not be there at that stage.
"Yes" or "No"?
So, no decision has been made yet.
Written Answers follow Adjournment Debate.