Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 16 May 2012

Vol. 765 No. 4

Topical Issue Debate

Mental Health Services

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

I raise this issue on the back of a report published today by Headstrong in association with academic staff in UCD. This was a survey of 14,000 teenagers and young adults which found 38% of participants had problematic or harmful drinking behaviour, with a further 7% having signs of alcohol dependence. According to Dr. Barbara Dooley, a lecturer at the UCD school of psychology, for young people there is a link between excessive drinking and mental health. The survey indicated that by sixth year in secondary school, almost half of students experience problem or hazardous drinking or possible dependence, with up to 7% showing some reliance on alcohol. This is an epidemic which has been growing in the country in recent years. The results of this survey have been suspected, which is that alcohol abuse and mistreatment by younger people is related to mental health issues. Those who abuse alcohol show a much higher incidence of depression and mental health issues.

What will the Government do to try to address this growing problem? In my own locality on one night last October, 26 students were checked into the accident and emergency department in Letterkenny General Hospital because of alcohol poisoning. That came as a result of a 99 cent drinks promotion. It is the extreme end of something that is a much wider and growing problem with our young people.

Unfortunately, our country has traditionally been very much associated with alcohol and we often see this played out when foreign leaders come here. Some of our larger and more successful companies are involved in the drinks industry.

This issue is affecting our young people and showing that as they progress in life, there will be an impact on mental health and the ability to be successful and lead productive lives. We should see some action on this from the Government so what is the Minister of State's response to this very timely report? What will happen to address this problem in the coming years?

Deputy Minister of State at the Department of Health ( Róisín Shortall)

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue that poses challenges for us a country. I hope we will all agree on tackling this issue in a meaningful way in the coming months.

The finding to which the Deputy refers comes from a joint Headstrong/UCD survey entitled ‘“My World”, which interviewed more than 14,000 young people between the ages of 12 and 25, the objective of which was to deepen what we know about young people’s mental health so that we can be more sensitive to their real needs. The number one health issue for young people is their mental health and good mental health in adolescence is a requirement for their optimal psychological development. In that regard, I am encouraged to see from the survey that the majority of young people interviewed were found to be functioning well across a variety of mental health indicators. I fully accept, however, the points the Deputy made about other critical findings in the survey.

We must be as proactive as we possibly can in developing and promoting better services to support young people's mental health. It is clear from the survey that the period between the ages of 15 and 25 is critical in their development, and if we can identify issues as they emerge, research tells us that early and brief intervention prevents people from experiencing lifetimes of pain and lost opportunities. Additional funding of €35 million was provided in the budget for mental health services, a significant portion of which will be used to strengthen and complete the professional profile of community mental health teams, including child and adolescent teams. We must make renewed efforts to encourage young people to seek help when they are in difficulty. It is clear that those who share their problems enjoy better mental health so we need to reach out to those around us who may be in distress, to engage with them and to encourage them to seek help.

Having regard to the specific issue of harmful drinking behaviour in teenagers and young adults, the report of the National Substance Misuse Strategy Steering Group launched last February is the roadmap for the future direction of policy in Ireland to deal with the use and misuse of alcohol. The steering group reported that Irish children are drinking from a younger age and drinking more than ever before. It added that more than half of Irish 16 year old children have been drunk and one in five is a weekly drinker. Furthermore, it declared that alcohol marketing leads to young people commencing drinking at a younger age and drinking more. In this respect, it found that Irish 16 to 21 year olds list alcohol advertisements as five of their top ten favourite advertisements.

We as a society can no longer tolerate the level of alcohol abuse in this country, particularly among young people. There is no room for ambivalence in our approach. My Department is now working on developing an action plan on alcohol, based on the recommendations in the substance misuse strategy report. I expect its recommendations will enjoy cross-party support when we move to implement them in the coming months.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

Will the Minister of State clarify if the Government intends to ban alcohol advertising in sports events? It was mentioned as a key part of the substance misuse strategy but will it be banned?

Alcohol abuse has become a cancer in our society in recent years. It was always a problem but it has grown. We are seeing it show up in our young people now, and from a younger age. It is essential from the point of view of looking after our citizens that we address this and take every possible measure. It also makes sense from a financial point of view. The data on the impact of alcohol show it is responsible for 2,000 hospital beds being occupied every night. Alcohol-related illness cost the health care system €1.2 billion in 2007. In the same year, alcohol-related crime cost €1.19 billion. That demonstrates the financial merit of investing in this.

Today's report showing the impact of alcohol abuse on the mental health of young people emphasises that we must address this. There is now a report before Government. We need to see action to tackle this growing problem that will lead to a more sensitive approach across Irish society, particularly among younger people. Is the Government committed to banning advertising of alcohol in conjunction with sports events? We should promote sports as an alternative to those who are drinking too much but instead it is intrinsically associated with sporting events. What other commitments will the Government make, apart from developing a plan?

Deputy Róisín Shortall

There is no doubting we have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol in this country. There is a cultural problem with alcohol and we must address this matter in a comprehensive way. That is why the strategy was drawn up and we are now working on implementing different aspects of that strategy. It is my intention to bring a memo to Government before the summer to provide for a number of measures. I am meeting separate Ministers and Departments on this. We are keen to introduce minimum pricing and are watching carefully what has been happening in Scotland in this regard. We also know that when it comes to young people, sports advertising and sponsorship by alcohol companies is effective. That is why so much money is put into it. I am committed to phasing out that over a reasonable period of time. There are contractual arrangements in place at present and I am working with the different national sporting bodies to agree a proposal to phase out that over a period of time. We must tackle this on a number of fronts and as I have already said, I look forward to support from all sides of the House on the measures I will be announcing shortly.

Medical Cards

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank the Ceann Comhairle's office for allowing me to raise the inordinate delays that can occur when medical card applications need to be reviewed.

On 22 February, in reply to a Topical Debate on the processing of medical card applications, the Minister of State told the House she expected the backlog of applications to be dealt with by the end of April. I would be grateful if the Minister would update the House on whether this target has been met. My office, which is in regular contact with the primary care reimbursement scheme, reports a considerable improvement in the ability to make contact with the PCRS staff and an improvement in the through-put of applications.

It appears, however, that there are still anomalies in the system that relate specifically to situations where applicants supply additional or revised information to the PCRS. In those cases, it takes an extremely long time to have the application reviewed. It is not the application that is the problem but if a review process is started, it creates a delay that can go on for an indefinite period.

In one case that prompted me to raise this issue, the most recent phase of one constituent's application for a medical card began in February of this year. Subsequent evidence was requested and supplied. That evidence related to home improvement loans needed to upgrade the heating to the standard necessary given the spouse's medical condition. This person had a circulatory problem and the central heating had to be installed to address this. It took a month to review the submitted information, which was ultimately rejected as evidence of a home loan.

This creates an anomaly. The reason the loan was refused was that the person had the central heating installed by the gas company instead of getting a loan from the credit union. Because the gas company was involved, it was not classified as a home loan and was therefore outside of the assessable means. It is strange that if someone gets the gas company to install central heating, the PCRS staff do not classify that as a home loan but if the person goes to the credit union to pay for the installation, it is classed as a home loan. I hope this anomaly will be corrected.

The second problem arose regarding the household income. The person got home help hours but ceased working as a home help and because of this another review was required. Proof was provided that the household had no income other than social welfare payments and receipt of this information was acknowledged on 25 April 2012.

However, some 15 working days later the promised review had not been completed and, to my knowledge, it has still not been completed as of this afternoon. This highlights a second anomaly. The HSE website suggests a medical card application can be processed from start to finish within 15 days. However, an apparently simple review cannot be completed in that time. Between my contacts and those of the staff in my office, we have made 25 separate contacts with the Primary Care Reimbursement Service during April and May on this single case. Although not as extreme, similar delays have occurred with other applications for review.

I emphasise that this is not an exercise in criticising the HSE or the PCRS. Rather it is an attempt to relieve the distress of a couple who urgently need the benefits of a full medical card. It is also an attempt to highlight the anomaly in the system. Is the planned provision of general practitioner visit cards for patients with a long-term illness on schedule? Ultimately, there is an anomaly and I would be grateful to hear how the Department will respond to it.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue as it provides me with an opportunity to report on what is taking place in the processing of medical card applications. Members will be aware that a decision was made some years ago to centralise the processing of all medical card applications. This was to be done on a phased basis. Last July a decision was taken by the HSE to centralise the records of the country overnight. I took the view that this was an unfortunate decision. The mistake was to do it overnight rather than to phase it in and build capacity. We have spent a good deal of time since dealing with the fall-out of that decision and trying to resolve the issues that have arisen.

For the first time in the State's history, a single, uniform system of application processing has been put in place. This system replaces the various systems previously operated through more than 100 local offices throughout the country. Among the changes introduced are the online service on the www.medicalcard.ie website and the standardisation of medical card assessments. Ultimately, the new arrangement should provide for a more accountable and better managed medical card processing system. I am aware, however, that there have been many serious difficulties with the centralisation project which have given rise to a large backlog and long delays for both new applicants and medical card renewal applicants. Several factors have given rise to these problems, including the processing of medical card applications being centralised before the necessary resources were in place. That was the key mistake made. The system was not geared up to deal with the significant increase in volume. There was already a significant backlog prior to centralisation. There has been poor communication with medical card applicants and the public. There has been limited support from local health offices and poor communication between local offices and the centralised system. Poor practices and procedures in the handling, filing and processing of medical card documentation have been a feature of the system. There have been problems across the board.

These issues were a source of serious concern for me and I held several meetings with the HSE during the past six months to express my concerns. As a result, the HSE has introduced several changes to the administration of the medical card application system in recent months. These changes include increased staffing levels in the centralised processing service to the full complement; improvements to the way medical card renewals are assessed and the frequency with which they are assessed; increased flexibility for GPs to add certain categories of patients to their GMS list; and the fast-tracking of backlogged cases and cases in which documentation has been misfiled.

I emphasise that in no circumstances should a medical card holder who genuinely engages with the review of his or her medical card have his or her entitlement withdrawn before the review is complete and a decision made. Some such cases were brought to my attention and these occurrences are unacceptable. The HSE is taking steps to ensure this rule is properly implemented.

While several customer service and communication issues remain to be addressed, the HSE has made significant progress in eliminating the backlog and preventing further backlogs from occurring. I am pleased to note that a backlog of 58,000 applications from last year has been completely cleared. Typically, the HSE receives up to 50,000 applications for medical cards each month. More than 90% of complete applications are processed within 15 working days. A review of medical card application processing has been undertaken by PricewaterhouseCoopers. It contains several recommendations which the HSE is addressing. I continue to monitor the situation and meet representatives from the HSE on a regular basis to discuss the quality of service provided for the public and address issues which may arise. I will be happy to take up the specific issues raised by the Deputy to ensure they are addressed.

Deputy Ciarán Lynch

I thank the Minister of State for her comprehensive response and acknowledge the commitment she has given. Her efforts have been clearly demonstrated in rectifying many of the processing difficulties that have arisen. On the whole, my experience and that of the staff in my office of the processing of fresh applications indicates that the process is working well. Applicants receive text messages stating their medical card is in the post. As I have outlined, the difficulty lies in the review process. It almost makes sense in some cases for people not to request a review but to make a fresh application and enter the information already submitted for review as part of a new application. I call on the Minister of State to re-examine the review process with a view to rectifying the difficulties that have arisen to make the process run smoothly. Anomalies remain, including one whereby a loan received from one agency is not categorised as a home loan because it has not been received from a lending institution but from a service provider.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

While a good deal of progress has been made in recent months in clearing the backlog, glitches remain in the system. There are particular difficulties with document handling and filing and these must be ironed out fully. We are working on these issues and there is now a good quality control system in place. I accept the Deputy's point that sometimes it is easier to start from scratch. However, the figures I have received indicate 90% of applications are turned around within 15 days. These are cases in which all the documentation has been sent in and is complete and uncomplicated. However, issues remain where people are trying to interact with the PCRS to explain certain information, for example, the source of a home loan. These remain to be ironed out. I fully accept that there are customer service issues which have not been fully resolved. However, we are working on them. I will be happy to pursue the case referred to.

Civil Registration Act

Deputy Tom Hayes

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for choosing this issue which is important to me and some of my constituency people. I thank the Minister for being present to respond to it. I wish to discuss the registration of the deaths of Irish citizens abroad or, to be more precise, the lack of registration. The Minister will be aware that the Civil Registration Act 2004 covers the registration of births, stillbirths and deaths. Under current legislation, the death of an Irish citizen abroad is only recorded and registered where it falls into one of three categories: first, the person dies in an aircraft or on an Irish ship abroad; second, the person dies in a foreign aircraft or on a foreign ship; and third, the person is a serving member, or the spouse of a serving member residing outside the State alongside his or her partner, of An Garda Síochána or the Defence Forces. In effect, this means the vast majority of deaths of Irish citizens abroad are never recorded or registered in Ireland.

The absence of registration in Ireland of a death abroad makes life considerably more difficult for the family members left behind. As many Members are aware from personal experience, a death certificate is usually needed to finalise affairs, including the closure of bank accounts, the cancellation of a passport and other issues that must be dealt with on a regular basis. The name of the deceased appears in certain documentation and the production of a death certificate can result in finalisation, something people are keen to attain.

There is a genealogical aspect to this matter also. The official annual death figures are not fully accurate since they do not account for hundreds of deaths of Irish citizens outside the State each year. Future generations will find it extremely difficult to trace their ancestors if one of them died overseas. That is the hard reality. I have no doubt the Minister will agree these people are not just statistics. They deserve the right to be recognised in their own country, even after death.

I know from experience the pain this has caused families and friends who have lost loved ones overseas. There are two exceptionally sad cases in my constituency. Mary Britton, who lost her husband, has been campaigning on this issue here in Leinster House and with previous Governments, and continues to fight her case in an understanding and caring way. Similarly, Dolores Millea, whose son died in Germany in 2007, believes resolving this issue could prevent future families suffering some of the distress with which those two families have had to deal.

This proposal would be a normal way to help those who have suffered so much. It would be a caring act we could do for those people, including the two examples I have given of the people in my constituency. It is an issue we should try to resolve and if the Minister cannot give me a full answer today, she might indicate a timeframe of what will be done to end this difficult situation.

Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Joan Burton)

I thank Deputy Hayes for raising this important and sensitive issue. I appreciate it is of enormous difficulty and concern to many families. I am aware the Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection examined this issue in the past.

The provisions and procedures governing the registration of deaths in Ireland are contained in Part 5 of the Civil Registration Act 2004 and are as follows. Where a death occurs in the State it is the duty of a qualified informant, usually a relative of the deceased, to attend at a registrar's office and register the death on foot of a certificate of cause of death supplied by a registered medical practitioner. Where a death is referred to a coroner, the death is registered by a registrar on foot of a coroner's certificate.

Section 38 of that Act makes provision for the registration of a death of an Irish citizen domiciled in the Statein certain specific circumstances. Where the death of an Irish citizen domiciled in the State occurs abroad, the death may be registered here if there was not at the time of the death a system of registration of deaths in the place where the death occurred, or such a system that applied to such a death, or it is not possible to obtain copies of or extracts from civil records of the death, that is, a death certificate. In other words, if the death could not be registered or if a death certificate could not be obtained, the death can be registered here. Although the number of such cases is extremely small, it is considered reasonable to make provision for them.

The reasoning behind these provisions is to ensure that where deaths cannot be registered abroad, they can be registered here, and that in all cases the relatives of the deceased have available to them a certificate of the death for personal, legal and administrative purposes. When an Irish citizen dies abroad, the death is usually registered by the civil authorities of the place where the death occurred, and a certified copy of the death registration is obtainable. This certificate, translated if necessary, is normally sufficient for all legal and administrative purposes here, and for those reasons alone there is no necessity for the death to be registered in this State.

Any broadening of the current provisions will require careful consideration. It will be appreciated that the number of people who live and die in other countries and who have or are entitled to have Irish citizenship is very large. This would have implications both for the registration process itself and for the vital statistics relating to deaths which are derived from registered events.

The number of Irish citizens who are domiciled in Ireland and who die abroad is relatively small in the context of total deaths occurring here in any given year. The figures available in respect of 2011 was 190 and 210 in 2010. Those figures refer to cases where consular assistance was provided and probably represent only a proportion of deaths of Irish persons who die abroad each year. My understanding is the majority of the people who died abroad were travelling abroad for leisure or business purposes. I am conscious each figure on a death represents a tragedy and because the death takes place away from home, it is an additional heartache for the family.

A death certificate is readily available in the overwhelming majority of these cases. However, I appreciate that many families of the deceased feel strongly that by registration of the death, the person's death is given recognition in his or her own country and also that this fact would assist during a period of considerable grief. I am aware the Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection has recommended in the past amending the current legislation to enable deaths of Irish citizens who have died abroad be registered here. Any broadening of the current provisions requires careful consideration given the number of people who live and die in other countries and who have, or are entitled to have, Irish citizenship. I hope to be in a position to introduce legislation on this and other aspects of civil registration in 2012.

Deputy Tom Hayes

I thank the Minister sincerely for giving such a comprehensive reply. This is a very sensitive issue for people. The Minister said she hopes to be in a position to introduce legislation in 2012. I will be happy if that happens and will write to the Minister on the many aspects. This is a very sensitive issue but people need that finality. I thank the Minister for what she has done so far.

Deputy Joan Burton

I thank Deputy Hayes for raising this issue. I understand its importance to many of the bereaved families. I have undertaken to have further legislation on civil registration. This is one of a number of matters which need to be addressed and it is my intention to do that when the heads of the Bill and so on have been drafted. There may be a role in that respect for the committee or for the Seanad to examine some of the issues because aside from the issue of the registration of deaths of Irish people who die abroad, a number of other issues arise which require to be addressed also.

Child Care Services

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

This matter relates to several crèche closures which are preventable but also illogical because the Minister, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, has it within her capacity to ensure proper funding is given to these community crèches which are run under the guise of the vocational education committees. These crèches provide child care places for young people who have returned to college or who are availing of further education. The three in Dublin are in Ballyfermot, Cabra and a brand new facility in Whitehall which opened only last year at a cost of more than €1 million. It is illogical that they would be even under threat of closure.

If these crèches close some of the people in the further education field who are trying to break the cycle by getting themselves a certificate or a degree which will give them access to the workplace, and much emphasis has been placed on transition and ensuring people have activation and the opportunity to go back into the workforce or at least access work, will end up dropping out of the system because they cannot afford the cost of child care. One of the reasons they chose those colleges was because of the child care facilities available. In Ballyfermot it will mean the loss of 23 places, 14 in Cabra and 34 in Whitehall. Other students, some of whom are in Youthreach, depend on these facilities also. If the Minister is not willing to withdraw the cut there is a danger of all of those students dropping out or at least being severely punished financially.

Deputy Joan Collins

I am glad this matter, which I submitted last Thursday, has been selected for discussion. Last Wednesday, I was contacted by the Ballyfermot College of Further Education which shortly beforehand had been informed, in an underhanded way when students were taking examinations, that the college crèche would close due to lack of funding. This decision contradicts the announcements the Government made only two weeks ago that it wanted to introduce Scandinavian type child care services and had decided not to proceed in the next budget with a proposed measure to reduce the threshold for lone parent's payment to seven years.

The closure of crèches by the City of Dublin Vocational Education Committee will result in the loss of 73 child care places in Ballyfermot, Cabra and Whitehall. Crèches in vocational education colleges in counties Cork, Limerick and Carlow will also close, while crèches in ten of the 30 VEC colleges are threatened with closure. Child care provision is part and parcel of the integration of communities. Lone parents need crèche supports to access education. One Ballyfermot college student, whose partner's twins attend the crèche, indicated he will be unable to continue his studies without the valuable support of the crèche. His hopes had been dashed, he said, adding, "We just cannot afford child care in this country." The Government must address this problem. I hope the Minister of State will indicate that funds will be provided to ensure the closures do not proceed.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh referred to a state-of-the-art VEC crèche in Whitehall which was opened only last year by the then President, Mary McAleese. Will the Government send President Michael D. Higgins to officially close it in June?

Deputy Michael Conaghan

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to raise this important issue. I was very concerned to hear recently that the City of Dublin Vocational Education Committee is to close three crèches at the end of June, including one in Ballyfermot College of Further Education. The facilities in question play a most important role in ensuring access to education. They make high quality child care available to students who otherwise would not be in a position to attend college. The provision of child care makes access to education a reality for many young women and the City of Dublin VEC deserves particular credit for its work in establishing crèches. As a board member of the VEC from 1991 to 2010, I saw at first hand how it consistently adapted and improved to meet the needs of students. As the profile of students changed, so too did the services provided. The opening of the crèche in Ballyfermot college was a prime example of this.

The provision of child care services did not happen overnight but came about as a result of an extensive campaign by many hardworking individuals. Such facilities are a mark of the commitment of vocational education committees to their students and a desire to create opportunities in education. Students must remain the priority and we must strive to ensure the crèche service continues. If, despite the best efforts of all involved, the VEC cannot continue to provide the service, we must ensure an alternative is found. To this end, engagement is needed between various partners to ensure a solution can be reached. I have spoken to a number of people about this issue in recent days and I understand engagement may be under way. This service must continue and I urge the Minister to play his part, to engage in this process and to ensure suitable arrangements can be made.

Minister of State at the Department of Education and Skills (Deputy Ciarán Cannon)

I thank Deputies Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Joan Collins and Michael Conaghan for raising this issue. I understand the importance of assisting parents to participate in further education and training courses by supporting child care provision. The child care support that has been provided in the crèches in question can be made available in other local childcare services so parents will not lose out.

I propose to explain the background to this issue. Until September 2010, my Department provided funding to vocational education committees and FÁS to provide child care support for participants in a range of further education and training courses, either by VECs in crèches they own or by providing a weekly subvention to parents who would source child care locally. This subvention was set at a maximum of €63.50 per week. Alongside this scheme, the Department of Children and Youth Affairs provided support of up to €100 per week under the community child care subvention, CCS, scheme to certain eligible participants.

With the different schemes in operation, inequalities and inefficiencies arose. For this reason, as part of budget 2010, a decision was taken to explore the potential for rationalising the child care support schemes in operation under the CCS framework to deliver improved supports in a more efficient, transparent and equitable way. Following discussions, the child care education and training support, CETS, scheme was established from September 2010. Under CETS, community and commercial crèches, including VEC owned crèches, can tender to provide free child care places for participants in a range of further education and training courses. VECs and FÁS advise the Department of Children and Youth Affairs on demand and the Department contracts with successful tenderers to provide the required places. Since its inception, weekly subventions under the CETS scheme have been €170 per child per week, an increase from the previous maximum level. However, from September 2012, this figure is being reduced to €145 per place and crèches may seek a contribution of up to €25 per week from participants. This still represents a significant improvement in the level of support available.

A number of VECs own crèches and some have indicated that these may not be financially viable under the new arrangements in the long term. This is mainly because their operating costs are higher than those of commercial or community crèches, which are maintaining financial sustainability under the new model. In 2010 and 2011, my Department provided additional grant aid to VECs, including City of Dublin VEC, to assist in the transition to the new scheme, but this is not sustainable in the long term, as VECs were informed from the outset. My Department is engaging with the VECs which are experiencing difficulties, the Irish Vocational Education Association and relevant employee representative organisations to resolve any issues locally.

Under the CETS programme, the places that were provided in VEC crèches can be made available to alternative local child care services, thus ensuring there is no reduction in the number of places available to parents participating in further education and training.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Thomas P. Broughan)

I ask Deputies to pay attention as this is an important issue.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

The Minister of State is not living in the real world if he believes alternative child care services are available locally. In Ballyfermot, for instance, the area I know best, another crèche is under threat of closure for an unrelated reason. This will reduce further the number of spaces available in the area where there are already waiting lists in most cases. I do not know where students at Ballyfermot College of Further Education will be able to source local, affordable child care places. This gives a lie to the Minister of State's contention that students will be able to source child care places elsewhere. The proposed closure is a backward step.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Thomas P. Broughan)

I call again on Deputies to pay attention as this is an important issue.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

It is illogical and should be reversed immediately. Changes should take place over time rather than at the end of a college term. It should be noted that Ballyfermot College of Further Education has produced Oscar winners. The Government, by its actions, may deny future Oscar nominees an opportunity to complete their education because the closure of the college's crèche threatens to cause many of the students who avail of the service to drop out of education.

Deputy Joan Collins

We heard wise words from Deputy Ó Snodaigh. The crèche places available at VEC colleges are for people the Government has said need child care facilities.

Acting Chairman (Deputy Thomas P. Broughan)

I ask Deputies for the last time to pay attention to the speakers. They are raising a very important issue.

Deputy Joan Collins

The Government should be proactive and immediately indicate that the closures will not proceed. The colleges state it costs €234 per week to provide child care for one child. Following the cut from €170 to €145 in the subvention, the VECs sought to part-fund places but are unable to continue to provide child care support. Three crèches will close in Dublin at the end of June. I call on the Minister of State to be serious about this and make sure that those child care places are in the colleges next September. Will he send out the new President officially to close the crèche in Whitehall, as his predecessor opened it only a year ago?

Deputy Michael Conaghan

The VECs have made further education a reality in this country for all social classes, and that has been a resounding success. Supports like those we are talking about is a vital ingredient in making and keeping it accessible. I believe that arrangements must be made. I have spoken to some potential partners already about this, and the Minister of State can turn those arrangements into a reality by engaging with people who are already sitting down to find a way of ensuring the high participation levels among students in all social classes going to colleges of further education will continue. We must ensure that they continue, and I look to the Minister of State for that to happen.

Deputy Ciarán Cannon

The Department readily acknowledges the value of providing child care for people who wish to gain access to adult and further education opportunities. It is regrettable that certain crèches need to close, but ultimately it is a decision for each VEC, having regard to the level of funding available to it. Both community based and privately funded crèches in these areas are able to sustain a child care facility using that grant that is available. I just wonder why that cannot happen within a VEC setting. Where the VECs take a decision to close a crèche, eligible staff who operate in that crèche will be redeployed or offered voluntary redundancy as appropriate, but places provided in that crèche under the CETS can be made available to other local child care services. Therefore, it is not expected that there will be any significant loss in places as a result of the closure of these crèches, and little or no impact on lone parents in disadvantaged areas who are returning to education.

A number of VECs received a capital grant from Pobail for the building of specific child care centres, and I understand from the VECs that Pobail has advised that the grant is subject to a fixed contract. Should the VEC not be in a position to complete the contract, there is a possibility to engage in a process of decommitment and recovery. There is also a provision for the change in operation of the facility, with the permission of Pobail, for example to transfer the building and the crèche operation to an existing local community organisation, which would operate under the aegis of the county child care committee.