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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 7 May 2013

Vol. 802 No. 1

Topical Issue Debate

School Accommodation

I thank the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, for coming into the House to discuss this matter with me. I wish to raise the issue, or what many would regard as the growing problem, of prefabricated classrooms in schools, in addition to their unsuitability and cost. It is reckoned that a massive number of prefabricated structures are being used as classrooms in schools throughout the country. While they are supposed to be used in the initial stages of building projects and temporarily to facilitate demand, there is evidence to suggest the cost to the State of renting or part-leasing is multiples of what is first planned. Representatives of one school told me recently that they were disappointed and frustrated. They were in despair because permission was granted for a new school beside the existing Archbishop Ryan school in Lucan, which has a considerable number of prefabricated buildings. The school, like many others in the State, has served its community well. It has been serving the community in Lucan for over 30 years. Some 1,500 children are in prefabricated structures in the Lucan area, including Archbishop Ryan school.

I had a discussion recently with a principal in the Newcastle area in my constituency. I was told the principal's school had a two-storey prefabricated structure. This causes frustration.

I am conscious that the Minister was bequeathed a budget by the previous Government and he is expected to do wonders with what is a limited budget in the most difficult times. On a number of occasions I stated that during the Minister's first two years in office many schools had been granted extensions and permission for new buildings. Permission for nine has been granted by the Minister in my constituency. I have two questions for him. I ask him to consider arranging a special examination to ascertain the value for money of prefabricated buildings. Could the Government have a special building programme that would bring about job creation, in addition to banishing the dreadful prefabricated buildings? I acknowledge the wonderful work we have been doing in difficult circumstances. Considerable progress has been made in the Government's first two years in office, but, as part of the legacy the Minister has inherited, conditions are very unsatisfactory, including in many schools that have had prefabricated buildings for many years.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter, as it gives me an opportunity to outline to the House the progress made in recent years by my Department in reducing the number of prefabricated classrooms in use in both primary and post-primary schools. When in opposition, I raised the fact that approximately 80,000 pupils were in prefabricated classrooms.

The overall policy goal of my Department is to ensure the highest standard of permanent accommodation for all schools. In regard to the number of prefabs being rented in schools, through the prefab replacement initiative, I have provided an opportunity for over 170 schools, out of a total of 4,000 primary and post-primary schools nationally, to replace their prefabs with permanent accommodation. In excess of €42 million has been allocated for this initiative, of which €22.3 million has been paid to date. In the context of a rapidly increasing school population and competing pressure on the capital budget available to my Department, it is still sometimes necessary to make use of temporary accommodation in order to meet the accommodation needs of schools. Where a major project is being delivered at a school that has temporary accommodation, my Department endeavours to replace this temporary accommodation with a permanent structure where the prevailing funding permits and site conditions and circumstances allow.

Since 2008 the practice in the Department has been that where the need for additional accommodation is likely to be for a finite period of less than three years, the school is given approval to rent temporary accommodation. I refer to the closure of a gap of three years, or less. Where the need for additional accommodation is likely to be for a period of more than three years, the school is given grant aid to either build a permanent structure or purchase a prefabricated structure. Of 409 classrooms approved under my Department’s additional accommodation scheme, 360 opted for permanent buildings. Following the introduction of this policy in 2008, the numbers of prefabs being rented has reduced to the point where only 38 new rental contracts for prefabricated accommodation at primary level were entered into in 2012. The number of schools receiving grant aid towards the cost of rented accommodation at primary and post-primary level is now in firmly in decline.

There has been considerable work done, as referred to in my opening comments, and also considerable progress. The report indicates very clearly that there has been a dramatic reduction in dependency and that we are certainly heading in the right direction. I received a letter last Thursday from the Minister on Archbishop Ryan school. He offered me the opportunity of meeting his officials to ascertain how the case in question could be examined, given that it had been outstanding for so long. I referred to Newcastle primary school, but there are other schools in my constituency. I thank the Minister for his recent correspondence. Could he give me an additional update on some of the schools to which I referred? If he can, I will be most grateful.

I thank the Deputy for giving me the opportunity to outline to the House the work done to reduce the number of prefabricated classrooms in both primary and post-primary schools. I will continue to use the resources available to me to reduce further the use of prefabricated classrooms in all schools. I am aware of the problems in the Deputy's constituency, particularly Lucan. The matter has been brought to my attention by the Deputy's colleague, Deputy Joanna Tuffy, and my colleague, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. I refer, in particular, to a large school that has been in place for some time. I am aware of the concerns some schools have been expressing. Whereas they are still in prefabricated accommodation, new schools coming through are getting new buildings. Understandably, this is causing some concern and difficulties. The reality is that we have changed the policy on prefabricated buildings. During the height of the building boom prefabricated buildings were seen as an answer, but in retrospect, it was crazy. The amount spent on renting prefabricated buildings has dropped considerably, but we will continue to make progress throughout the five year construction plan I announced in March 2012. This outlines the major schools building projects that will proceed to construction over the duration of the plan. Should additional funding become available, projects not included in the plan will be considered further. The five year plan is not the end of the story. However, it is a priority because, having seen increases in population, the Deputy will be aware that it is important that the children who were born this morning in maternity hospitals across the country be looking into a schoolyard in four years, not a field. I am constantly concerned about this issue and it has to be the overriding priority. While some schools are in prefabricated buildings and believe they are being bypassed, we must increase the available accommodation to meet the fastest growing population in Europe so as to ensure children will have a classroom in which they can be educated.

Third Level Funding

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this topic for discussion. I commend the Department of Education and Skills and its Ministers on the recently published School Completers - What Next? and early school leavers reports which are enlightening and provide the up-to-date detail required by those of us interested in education, particularly equality in education. Both reports highlight the level of work in which we, as a Parliament, need to engage to bring about equality in education, particularly at second level. They indicate the disadvantages for children of working class families in not completing second level education and highlight the difficulties they experience in accessing third level education, universities in particular. They also vindicate my view which I have held all of my adult life that the State should not be providing financial support for the small number of private schools operating in the country. The reports clearly state this gives children attending fee paying schools the edge in that they are three times more likely to access third level education than children from working class backgrounds who attend schools in working class areas. If we are to ensure equality in education, this funding must cease.

In regard to the continued subsidisation of private schools, I have previously pointed out to the Minister that, for all that is said about discrimination in Northern Ireland, private schools there do not receive one cent of taxpayers' money; rather, they operate independently. That is how it should be here. I am opposed to the State subsidising private schools. If we are to ensure fairness in second level education, the subsidisation of private schools must end.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter.

A new report published today, School Completers - What Next?, shows that over 50% of students who were enrolled in the final year of senior cycle in Department of Education and Skills-supported post-primary schools in 2010 went directly to higher education. This is the first in a series of reports by the Department that tracks pupils one year after they leave school. This evidence-based research has been compiled using data matching of administrative data.

The Department also produces reports on projections of enrolment at third level and the retention rates of pupils in second level schools. Data showing where school leavers went having completed the leaving certificate examination in 2010 are contained in School Completers - What Next? It found that of the 54,824 school leavers that year, 44% went on to study a higher education course in a HEA funded institution; 20% enrolled in PLC courses; 5% repeated the leaving certificate examination; an estimated 4% enrolled in colleges abroad, predominantly in the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland, and just over 2% were estimated to have enrolled in a non-HEA funded institution. The report also shows that 66% of students who attended fee-charging secondary schools as compared to 47% from the non-fee charging secondary school sector progressed directly to higher education. Some 42% of students from comprehensive schools, 38% from community schools and 34% from the vocational sector progressed directly to higher education. In terms of students attending DEIS schools, some 24% as compared to 49% from non-DEIS status schools went on to higher education. While over 57% of pupils attending all-Irish schools progressed directly to higher education courses, it should be noted that this refers to a small sample size - 826 of 1,437 pupils.

In the 2011-12 academic year there were over 163,000 full-time students in publicly funded third level institutions. Demand for full-time education has risen substantially in recent years, with full-time enrolments rising from just under 116,000 in 2000-01. Owing to the underlying demographics, demand is projected to increase continuously up to 2026, with a projected level of demand for full-time places of over 192,000 by 2020-21 and 209,000 by 2026-27.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply which indicates the progress being made. Historically, too many children, particularly from working class communities, have left school too early, but this is beginning to turn around. I welcome any improvement in that regard.

On funding for fee-paying schools, neither the Minister of State nor I can be blamed for this situation which got out of control during the Celtic tiger era. The level of funding provided for private schools in this jurisdiction over 14 years amounted to almost €1 billion, which is a lot of money. As I said, if we are to ensure equality in education and give all children the prospect of accessing third level education, we will need to rectify this.

The Minister of State may have heard last week that one private fee paying school, one of the best in terms of performance, with almost 90% of its students going on to third level, reported a €400,000 surplus in its 2012 accounts to the Companies Registration Office. Not only did it have a surplus of €400,000 last year, this was an increase on the surplus of €300,000 recorded for the previous year. Many have commented on how tough things are and the need to continue paying all of this money to private schools. However, this does not stand up. We are paying money to schools that are operating on a surplus. For this reason, the abolition of this funding is justified.

I take the points made by the Deputy. A number of initiatives to make third level education accessible to those who are under-represented have been initiated.

One of these is the third level access fund, as administered by further and higher education institutions, to support the retention of certain target groups, namely, students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, mature students, students with disabilities and those from ethic minorities. It is managed on behalf of the Department of Education and Skills by the Higher Education Authority's national access office. In 2009-10, entrants from these target groups made up 37.1% of all entrants to third level institutions. The back to education initiative aims to increase the participation of young people and adults with less than upper second level education, particularly the so-called hard-to-reach, who experience strong barriers to participation in a range of part-time accredited learning opportunities leading to awards on the national framework of qualifications to facilitate their access, transfer and progression to other education and employment pathways. We also have the Springboard programme. These initiatives have been established to enable those from the lower socioeconomic categories to have access to third level or higher education. We are trying to improve the situation, while paying attention to the funding that is available and that is not easy in these difficult times. I thank the Deputy for raising the matter.

Carbon Tax Collection

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this topic and appreciate that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, is present to respond to it.

As a Border county Deputy representing the counties of Cavan and Monaghan, I have a particular concern about the smuggling of fuel across the Border, not just diesel and petrol but also solid fuels. Alcohol, tobacco and a range of other products are also being smuggled across the Border. Unfortunately, that black economy is thriving and it is doing untold damage to our revenue base.

Domestic solid fuel in the North is already cheaper due to a 5% VAT rate, compared to a 13.5% VAT rate here, and an exemption from the British Government's climate levy. However, as announced in the budget in December, the carbon tax has been extended to solid fuels. A rate of €10 per tonne has now been applied with effect from 1 May, and a rate of €20 per tonne will be applied with effect from 1 May next year. I understand that is the current proposal. According to the industry, by next year that will add €2.50 to a 40 kg bag of coal and 50 cent to a bale of briquettes. A household that goes through two bags of coal a week for half of the year - which is not unusual, particularly for those houses without central heating - will pay an extra €130.

Introducing these phased carbon tax increases on solid fuels without considering their impact on poorer families and the increasing incidence of fuel smuggling is not a good example of joined-up thinking by the Government. A number of years ago when the carbon tax was first introduced, the intention was that it would not be applied to solid fuels - namely, coal and turf - until there was practically an equivalent price north of the Border. That is not the position at the moment. I know some fuel traders who are very concerned about the possible impact on the trade south of the Border due to the price differential resulting from the imposition of the extra tax. I raised this issue during the Second Stage debate on the Finance Bill and I hope the Minister will be in a position to address it. Fuel merchants have pointed out to me and many other public representatives that smuggling and the potential for further losses in the trade means they may have to let employees go, with a resultant loss of income tax, PRSI and other revenue to the Exchequer.

When the introduction of a carbon tax was first mooted in 2009, the solid fuel trade group, the industry's representative body, stated: "The proposed carbon tax would introduce a 22.5 per cent wholesale price disadvantage to Republic-based coal distributors - with the end result being the complete domination of the solid fuel trade in the Republic by coal from Northern Ireland." The group's spokesman at that time said there was evidence of coal being smuggled as far south as the Minister's province of Munster.

From an environmental point of view, it is worth noting that Scottish coal has a relatively high sulphur content, nearly three times the maximum allowed in the Republic. The industry has estimated that smugglers could make €2,500 to €3,000 per truck bringing in smuggled coal. We already know the massive profits that are made from well-organised smuggling of diesel and cigarettes and the activities, which we all find despicable, that are often funded from these operations. It seems we are now going to give even more opportunity to the same people so that they can make money and in the process deny the State millions of euro in revenue.

The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government yesterday announced his decision to press ahead with a nationwide ban on smoky coal. There will be benefits from that decision but there will be an additional dimension in terms of costs for consumers.

Representations have been made directly to me by many small-scale fuel merchants who are concerned that they will have severe difficulty remaining in the trade, particularly those in the three Southern Border counties, those along the Border and those even further south. I ask the Minister if something can be done to ensure that revenue is not lost to the State and that everything possible is done to protect that trade and the resultant jobs.

The Revenue Commissioners are responsible for the collection of the solid fuel carbon tax. This tax was introduced with effect from 1 May 2013 and will be collected on a self-assessed basis. In line with its approach generally, the Revenue Commissioners will apply the full range of compliance interventions and enforcement provisions for self-assessed taxes to the solid fuel carbon tax.

The tax is payable on the first supply in the State and will therefore be paid by importers and manufacturers at the earliest point possible in the domestic supply chain. Retailers that source their fuel from distributors in the State will not be making a first supply in the State and therefore will not be required to register for the tax. However, if a fuel trader or retailer receives some or all of its solid fuel supplies from a supplier based in another member state - for example, a supplier based in Northern Ireland - that fuel trader or retailer will be accountable for the tax when it supplies the fuel onwards to its own customers.

If a supplier based in Northern Ireland is supplying households here directly, that supplier will be making a first supply in the State and must register for the carbon tax and make payment of the tax on its supplies to the Revenue Commissioners. In circumstances in which there are grounds to believe that tax has not been paid in respect of a taxable supply of solid fuel, the Revenue Commissioners will investigate the person's tax liabilities in accordance with the particular circumstances of each case. If confirmed, it will enforce the collection of any unpaid carbon tax and other taxes, such as VAT.

A tax liability does not arise where an individual personally purchases and brings into the State solid fuel from a supplier in another member state, provided the fuel is for his or her own private use. However, should that individual, instead of using it him- or herself, supply another person in the State with that fuel, he or she will have made a first supply of solid fuel in the State as a supplier, will be liable to pay a solid fuel carbon tax on that supply, and must register with the Revenue Commissioners accordingly.

It is important to note that the solid fuel carbon tax will become operational in a market that is already subject to strict regulation. Regulations to enable local authorities to control the type of coal supplied in the State have been put in place as part of the robust mechanism introduced by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to address the risk of coal products with lower environmental standards, and on which carbon tax has not been paid, being sourced from Northern Ireland. Suppliers who are producing and supplying solid fuel unlawfully are subject to investigation and prosecution by local authorities and other State agencies charged with enforcing environmental regulations and preventing such supply. The Revenue Commissioners will liaise with these bodies as required to ensure lawful supplies of solid fuels are properly taxed.

I thank the Minister for his reply. I compliment the Revenue Commissioners on the excellent work they have been doing in recent years to deal with the scourge of washed diesel and the illicit trade in diesel, in particular, but also in tobacco products. I know from speaking to those officials that they are dealing with a very difficult issue and have made substantial progress, which we welcome. We want to ensure that type of illicit trade is eliminated as far as is practicable. Being realists, we know that it is not possible for the Revenue Commissioners or any State agency or its officers to police on an ongoing basis the Border areas in the constituencies that the Minister of State, Deputy McGinley, and I represent.

In his concluding sentence, the Minister said that the Revenue Commissioners would liaise with the bodies to which I referred. One of the fuel merchants made the point that they need assurance that there will be good policing in the new situation that has arisen with regard to solid fuels. Co-ordination is needed to ensure that if there is a marked decrease in the legitimate sale of products south of the Border, some action will be taken to deal with the illegal supply. When the Minister is planning the budget, I ask him to consider not applying the increase proposed for May 2014, because the British Government has not yet indicated whether its carbon charge will apply to solid fuel products in the North of Ireland. We need to plan as much as possible for the difficulties that will arise for this business south of the Border too.

The Deputy has raised three issues in his supplementary question, one of which was the level of enforcement by the Revenue Commissioners and how they will co-operate with other authorities. They have assured me that they are intent on rigorous enforcement using all the powers under the tax Acts and that they will liaise with other authorities. The second issue is the high sulphur content of some coals that come from Northern Ireland, particularly if they are sourced in Scotland. There are regulations already promulgated by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and enforced by local authorities to do with the quality of solid fuel burned, particularly coals with high sulphur contents. They will continue their enforcement as they have been doing up to now but they will cross-refer anything they do to the Revenue Commissioners, which will be in contact with the local authorities to see if enforcement is required or if there is a trail that can be followed to source smuggling from Northern Ireland.

The third question is a budgetary matter. When I extended the carbon charge to solid fuels I said we would bring in only 50% of the tax this May, with the other 50% to be brought in next May. However, we do take cognisance of what the British authorities are doing in Northern Ireland because we do not want legitimate trade to evaporate across the Border because of price differentials.

Homeless Persons Supports

I appeal to the Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and to the Government to take an interest in St. Catherine's Foyer, which has been in place since 2004. Will the Minister of State intervene before a final decision is made to close or alter the management ethos of the Cara Foyer in Marrowbone Lane? There were other Cara foyers elsewhere. Dublin City Council and the Simon Community are in discussions about this centre. The main source of funding is the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government via Dublin City Council. The current discussions have not included the local community in any way. The community is hearing by drip-feed about the proposals to turn the foyer into a general homeless shelter. This is not a case of NIMBY-ism. That is not the attitude. The community wants this facility to remain and does not want it altered.

What is being proposed is contrary to the commitment given to the community when it agreed to have the foyer built on its community space when its sports and youth centre was being built. The community was told that unless it allowed the foyer to be built it would get nothing. Thanks to the combination of the St. Catherine's residents' association, the Coalition of Communities against Drugs and Dublin City Council, two fine facilities were built in this severely disadvantaged area of the south inner city. Hundreds of young people and many adults use the sports complex, which shares an entrance with the 48-bed foyer, every day. This is a mixed complex and to the best of my knowledge there has not been one incident or problem between the residents of the foyer and the local community, which augurs well for the future if it is allowed to continue under the ethos and management that it has now.

Up to 14 people between the ages of 18 and 25 years who are homeless or at risk of being homeless can have their own space in this centre for up to two years while they are getting on their feet and availing of a key worker in the complex, as well as other services including educational opportunities and access to work placements. It has been an innovative, unique and holistic answer to the needs of many young homeless people in Dublin and has been very successful. It is a safe space that is now at risk from a proposed change which would allow anybody from the homeless list in the Dublin City Council area, which includes drug users and convicted sex offenders, to invade this space next to a youth centre that is used by hundreds of people every day. If the foyer is changed to a homeless shelter, of which there are already several in the constituency, it will not be the centre of excellence that it has been. This is of concern to the community. I urge the Minister of State to ensure that if Cara wishes to extract itself from the foyer, other options are considered, such as its being taken on by Dublin City Council or another youth organisation to ensure the facility is retained and the community is safe.

Unfortunately, the Minister of State with responsibility for housing and planning, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, is not available to take this debate today, but she has asked me to thank the Deputy for providing this opportunity to discuss the issue of homelessness and the Government's response to it.

The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government's role in respect of homelessness involves the provision of a national framework of policy, legislation and funding to underpin the role of housing authorities in addressing homelessness at local level. Statutory responsibility for the provision of accommodation and related services for homeless persons rests with the housing authorities - in this instance, Dublin City Council. The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government has no function in this regard, nor is it involved in decisions on operational matters.

I understand St. Catherine's Foyer is a housing facility in Dublin 8 which deals exclusively with young people aged 18 to 25 who have experienced homelessness or are in danger of becoming homeless. The facility can accommodate up to 40 individuals for stays of up to two years. There is a focus on personal development and all residents are assigned a member of staff who assists them in achieving life goals such as education, skills development, job searching and emotional development.

The future day-to-day operational management of St. Catherine's Foyer is a matter under consideration by the board of the foyer - that is, Cara Housing Association Limited. This consideration relates to its ongoing role as a management agent in the provision of homeless services in Dublin.

Both the Health Service Executive and Dublin City Council are supporting Cara Housing in this process and the board of the foyer is now engaged with Dublin Simon in exploring opportunities for the ongoing management of services in keeping with the Government’s policy on addressing homelessness.

The Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, recently published the Government's homelessness policy statement. It is a clear, concise and accessible articulation of the political and policy focus that informs the approach to ending homelessness. It places an explicit emphasis on a housing-led approach as the primary response to homelessness. Long-term and sustainable housing should be the primary response to all forms of homelessness. A housing-led approach is the emerging consensus in international social policy, both academically and in practice. It is generally accepted as a positive departure from previous models which saw stable housing as the end goal in combating homelessness and individuals moved through various stages in residential services, from emergency to transitional, before being assessed for long-term independent housing.

The previous approaches to homelessness saw individuals trapped in emergency accommodation for long periods. The emphasis on short-term emergency interventions has proved expensive to administer and operate. More importantly, it did not serve the individual well in terms of dignity and well-being. The housing-led approach to homelessness outlined in the policy statement incorporates the provision of support for people in their homes according to their needs. We need to focus on long-term solutions to homelessness. The goal is to assist homeless persons who can live independently into mainstream accommodation as soon as possible. It is about sustaining tenancies. It is important that a range of housing options is available to enable someone to move out of emergency accommodation as quickly as possible into long-term accommodation more suited to their needs. There can be no greater solution to homelessness than providing people with a home where they can live as full and valued members of society.

That reply has absolutely nothing to do with the issue I raised. The Department can involve itself in the operational questions around this centre since it is the primary funder. It is a pity the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, is not in the Chamber because she would be well aware of the work of Cara Housing, as she was a director - she possibly still is - and perhaps even was chair of that company. Questions arise about the English Cara Housing Association extracting itself from Ireland.

The centre in question is working. Its success is highlighted by testimonies from social workers and youth workers across the city. With the HSE and the Garda, they attest to the fact that this is the type of centre required. If its ethos is changed, we will end up with the chaotic circumstances one sees in homeless centres in this city. Changing the ethos would mean people on the general homeless list would be entitled to avail of this centre, meaning they would share an open door with St. Catherine’s Community Centre in which there are young people. One could have sex offenders, chaotic drug users and alcoholics going to the complex which was prevented in the past.

The young people in this centre are at risk and not on the transitional housing list but are given two years to allow them the space to get their lives together and back into education or a job. The centre has been successful in this respect, as has been proved in every evaluation of it. Will the Minister intercede before Dublin City Council makes an arrangement with the Simon Community to turn this into a normal Simon homeless centre? There are other alternatives. It could be run by the city council, as happens in Cork, or by another youth service. Several youth services have indicated an interest in running the centre.

The future day-to-day operational management of St. Catherine's Foyer is a matter under consideration by the board of Cara Housing Association Limited. This consideration relates to its ongoing role as management agent in the provision of homeless services in Dublin.

Is the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, still on the board of directors of Cara Housing Association Limited? If she is, that would give rise to a conflict of interest.

The Minister of State has set out the ambitious target of ending long-term homelessness by the end of 2016 by explicitly adopting a housing-led approach. Considerable funding has been extended to tackle homelessness annually across the Government. The Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government has overseen local government and State expenditure exceeding €50 million a year in respect of the running costs of homeless facilities and associated services. There is also considerable capital investment in homeless services on an annual basis. In addition, the HSE is spending over €30 million on care packages for the homeless every year. A housing-led approach is not just about achieving a better return on public investment. Its driving ambition is ensuring the dignity and value of individuals and families. By definition, a home encompasses security, safety and well-being.

Has the Minister of State resigned from the board of directors of Cara Housing Association Limited?

It is not just a place to shelter but a place in which we flourish and from where we contribute to our wider community. The Minister of States’s targets and approach are enlightened.

I agree they are laudable but not in this case. This is a facility that is not even operating at capacity.

That will be brought to the Minister of State’s attention.

Good, but she will be well aware of it already.

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