Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 19 Feb 2015

Vol. 868 No. 3

Leaders' Questions

Deputy Niall Collins

The entire country was shocked at the escape from Tallaght hospital this week of a high profile dangerous criminal while attending a medical appointment. People were particularly struck by the vicious assault perpetrated on the prison officers detailed to take him to that appointment. Fianna Fáil and everybody in the House want to condemn that attack and wish the prison officers who were subject to this assault a speedy recovery. We also ask that the Irish Prison Service make every resource available to aid their proper recovery and welfare.

What was of most concern to the public was that the person in question was a high profile prisoner who had previously escaped from a UK prison. We now know from reports that the Irish Prison Service had previously requested armed escorts on a number of occasions when this prisoner was leaving prison to attend medical appointments, but that these requests were declined by An Garda Síochána. This raises a number of serious questions, in particular about the level of Garda resources available and afforded to the Irish Prison Service for these escorts. The incident also raises questions about the welfare of prison staff in terms of the equipment available to them such as stab vests, pepper spray and batons. We have heard that the Prison Officers Association has sought the provision of this equipment. There is also the wider question of the welfare of front-line emergency workers, including gardaí, prison officers, nurses and doctors working in emergency departments and the fire service.

Since the incident in question happened, a Garda investigation has been ongoing and the Irish Prison Service is also conducting an investigation. Bearing in mind the past record of the individual concerned of escaping from custody, the public fails to understand the statement made by the Taoiseach yesterday that the failure to provide a Garda escort had nothing to do with cutbacks or a lack of resources for An Garda Síochána. Against the backdrop of that amazing statement by the Taoiseach yesterday and given the two investigations which are a work in progress - we know that the Taoiseach is not authoring these reports or carrying out the investigations - does the Minister agree with the Taoiseach's statement that this incident had nothing to do with a lack of Garda resources? Arising from this event, will the Minister or the Government inform us of the number of previous occasions the Irish Prison Service had its requests for escorts declined by An Garda Síochána, either owing to a lack of resources or for any other reason?

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Alex White)

Like the Deputy, I regret the incident that occurred the other day, particularly from the perspective of the prison officers involved. Prison officers are professionals who do a great job, often under considerable pressure and not least in the context of an incident such as this, which may well be an unusual and isolated one. I agree with the Deputy that the welfare of prison officers and personnel across the board, whether in the health service, the Prison Service or An Garda Síochána, is paramount. Like all Members, I join the Deputy in wishing the prison officers involved in the incident a speedy recovery.

The Deputy will appreciate and know that this is and remains an operational matter for An Garda Síochána, in the first instance in this jurisdiction, and for the Police Service of Northern Ireland which I understand has custody of the individual concerned. In these circumstances, it would not be appropriate nor is it possible for me to comment on any aspect of the incident.

Deputy Niall Collins

What about the issue of resources?

Deputy Alex White

I will come to the question of resources. The Garda and the PSNI must be allowed to get on with the work they do so well and professionally on our behalf. It is not possible or would not be appropriate for us to pick at individual aspects of their work.

I agree with the Deputy that the issue of resources has a wider, political dimension. I agree with the Taoiseach in the sense that there is no evidence or basis for the assumption, at which the Deputy appears to have arrived, that this incident occurred because of a lack of resources. There is no evidence to support such a proposition.

On the broader question of resources, the Deputy will be aware that 100 new recruits entered training at the Garda College in Templemore in September 2014. I remind him that this was the first intake of Garda recruits since the moratorium had been put in place by the Government of which he was a supporter in 2009. There was a further intake of 100 recruits in December and of another 100 last week. They have brought the number of recruits in the Garda College to 300 and are a measure of the Government's commitment to An Garda Síochána. The first intake of recruits will attest as members of An Garda Síochána in May this year and be assigned to Garda stations across the country by the Garda Commissioner.

On equipment, the issue of vehicles is often raised in this context. The House should know that the Government recently secured an additional €10 million for investment in the Garda fleet, €7 million of which was made available in 2014, with the remaining €3 million to be provided in 2015. We are resourcing An Garda Síochána and ensuring that both it and the Irish Prison Service are properly resourced. Where possible, the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Government find increased resources to fill the enormous gap left by the actions of the Deputy's party in government.

Deputy Niall Collins

I find the Minister's response amazing. He has said there is no evidence that there was an issue with Garda resources. Why then were previous requests made by the Irish Prison Service for armed escorts for the individual in question declined? Surely, if the agency of State charged with keeping criminals locked up and dealing with issues of this nature requests an armed escort, its request should be taken on board. Clearly, there is an issue with resources.

Despite all of the Minister's political rhetoric, it was the Government that continued the moratorium on recruitment throughout 2011 to 2014, inclusive. At the same time, it continued to recruit to the Defence Forces. The public is aghast that Garda numbers were allowed to dwindle. No recruits were brought in in those years, yet the Government states it was doing something to deal with the issue. The Minister has not answered my question on how many other requests were made to An Garda Síochána to provide armed escorts.

Deputy Finian McGrath

He got away with it.

Deputy Niall Collins

The Minister's comments on his concern for the welfare of front-line emergency workers ring hollow. One need only look at how the Government has acted in that regard.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Fianna Fáil cut their pay by 15%.

Deputy Niall Collins

My party offered legislation which would protect front-line workers, namely, the Assaults on Emergency Workers Bill of 2012, which was introduced by my colleague, Deputy Dara Calleary.

Deputy Regina Doherty

What did the Deputy's party do in Government?

Deputy Niall Collins

That Bill sought to place a minimum mandatory extra tariff on anybody who committed an assault on a nurse, garda, prison officer or fire fighter. These are people who work day in, day out, to protect people, communities and property. The Minister has spoken about a concern for the welfare of our front-line workers but his actions have not followed through in that regard.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Niall Collins

The Government's track record proves it. It is a fact that its actions have not lived up to its concerns about the welfare as expressed here today. I ask the Government to follow through on its concerns by providing what the Prison Officers Association has been asking for, namely, proper stab vests, pepper spray, batons and other equipment which front-line prison staff need to protect themselves while carrying out their day-to-day duties.

Deputy Alex White

The Minister for Justice and Equality has dealt very carefully and very well with this issue-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

She has not dealt with it at all.

Deputy Alex White

-----particularly with regard to the resourcing of An Garda Síochána and the Prison Service. It is extraordinary for Deputy Niall Collins to talk about the moratorium having been continued by this Government when it was his party in Government which put it in place. I find it difficult sometimes to understand the position of Fianna Fáil Deputies. Do they agree with what this Government has done in the context of the recovering economy and the putting in place of additional resources or is this just an issue with which they wish to play political football? The Deputy spoke about Deputies on this side of the House dealing in rhetoric but he has made a good fist of that himself this morning. He should not call into question the sincerity of my remarks regarding the welfare of individuals when I would not question his sincerity in that regard.

Deputy Niall Collins

I was referring to the actions of his Government.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Finian McGrath

The Minister is distorting the issue again. What about the resources?

Deputy Alex White

On the question of resources, the Deputy asked specific questions about particular requests. I do not know the extent or number of requests for armed escorts that were made. I will check that for the Deputy and revert to him-----

Deputy Niall Collins

At the same time, the Minister has said there is no evidence-----

Deputy Alex White

-----as best as I can. The Deputy has no evidence and has not placed any on the record of this House, despite his bleatings-----

(Interruptions).

Deputy Sean Fleming

It is not his job to provide evidence.

Deputy Niall Collins

This is not a court of law.

Deputy Alex White

-----that any particular incident occurred - either yesterday or on another occasion - because of a lack of resources.

Deputy Sean Fleming

Yesterday. The prisoner was arrested yesterday.

Deputy Alex White

Deputy Niall Collins has not done that because that evidence is not there.

Deputy Sean Fleming

The prisoner escaped the day before yesterday. Does the Minister even know when this happened?

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy wants to make a political point out of a very regrettable and very dangerous incident which he should not attempt to do.

The Minister for Justice and Equality is dealing with this question. She has won a considerable amount of new resources for An Garda Síochána to be used across the board-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Tell that to gardaí.

Deputy Alex White

-----including an additional investment of €7 million for the purchase of 370 new vehicles towards the end of last year. The Members opposite do not want to hear this information because it does not suit the narrative they are trying to convey. This Government is dealing with a recovering economy and will put resources in place, as required, across the board for all of our public services. We are doing that successfully and that is the problem for the parties opposite.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

My party colleagues and I are committed to a fair recovery. We want to get people back to work and bring our young people home but we also want to ensure that work pays. The Cabinet has signed off on a jobs strategy, a central plank of which is the JobBridge scheme. Today I published a proposal to scrap JobBridge. I will outline some elements of my proposal. I ask the Minister to explain the decision to continue and extend the JobBridge scheme because the scheme is displacing jobs.

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

No it is not-----

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

It is. It is also lowering pay and creating under-employment in this State. I will prove that with data from the Indecon report which the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection continuously quotes to me when I raise concerns about JobBridge and other schemes.

The Indecon report found that 30% of employers said that they would create a job if JobBridge did not exist; that is under-employment. We have also seen headlines about the abuse of the scheme and about the fact that the Department of Social Protection has allowed internships to be promoted which otherwise would have been entry-level jobs. If one visits the JobBridge website today, one will see that six out of the first ten positions advertised are for retail or office staff. It does not take six to nine months to learn how to stack shelves; nor does it take nine months to learn how to pick potatoes in Donegal. I ask the Minister to ensure that the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection scraps the JobBridge scheme and reverts to creating apprenticeships and appropriate internships. I also ask him to ensure that her Department, in conjunction with the Department of Education and Skills, ensures that in-work training and in-education training become the norm rather than JobBridge.

Deputy Alex White

It is a good day when Sinn Féin is coming forward with a new policy. We have not seen very much of that-----

Deputy Brian Stanley

That is because the Minister is wearing blinkers. He should take his blinkers off.

Deputy Alex White

I welcome that and look forward to reading the policy. We will see how well it stacks up alongside some of the party's other policies on the economy. It appears now that the Sinn Féin approach to JobBridge generally is that it ought to be scrapped but I understand that the policy proposals published today make suggestions as to how it can be improved or replaced by something very similar. I look forward to considering the Deputy's policy proposals. I also recall that the Sinn Féin leader, Deputy Adams, tabled a parliamentary question asking for the JobBridge scheme to be extended to people who are not on the live register. He did so, I would suggest, on the grounds that he knows, as do many others, that it has been a success. Youth unemployment has fallen by a third since 2012. Under the Pathways to Work strategy, a focused effort has been made to reduce youth unemployment. We are also implementing the Youth Guarantee, having launched First Steps and JobsPlus Youth a fortnight ago. That work is paying off and the facts are there to prove it; they are staring the Deputy in the face. There has been a significant reduction in youth unemployment, from 31% in 2012 at the height of the crisis to 21.6% at the end of 2014. There have been 37,341 JobBridge placements to date and 6,172 people are currently on internships.

There are two points about JobBridge that must be stressed. The scheme is voluntary, both for the host organisation or employer and the individual intern. Second, an individual must have been out of work for three of the previous six months in order to qualify.

Issues have been raised by the Deputy regarding the monitoring of JobBridge and his concerns in this regard are legitimate. None of us wants to see an abuse of the JobBridge programme, least of all the Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection. If a complaint is made by an intern, employee or someone else, it is investigated and taken very seriously. There have been almost 10,000 monitoring visits since JobBridge started. Of these, 97.5% of internships visited were found to be satisfactory. That means that over one in four placements was monitored. It was not just a dip-in monitoring exercise, but was very extensive. However, out of over 11,000 host organisations, only 44 have been banned indefinitely, while ten have been banned for a lesser period. That represents 0.5% against a backdrop of thousands of monitoring visits. Any individual who wishes to report a suspected abuse of the JobBridge scheme should contact the JobBridge team directly. Deputies can see, from the figures I have given, that complaints are investigated and where a breach is found, severe action is taken.

The scheme has been successful and it is right to quote the Indecon report in that regard, although Deputy Ó Snodaigh quoted selectively from it. The aforementioned independent report found that 60% of those who took part were in employment within five months.

Many also go into further education, training, reskilling or schemes like community employment. The evaluation also found that 96% of host organisations would recommend JobBridge to another employer and 89% of interns stated that JobBridge had given them new skills. It is not a replacement for employment but it is something that can be of huge value in increasing people's self-confidence, giving them an opportunity to gain quality work experience and establish a network of contacts. It is not a job but it takes people a long way along the road to achieving confidence in the market and the workplace.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Internships are not jobs yet the Minister tried to put it across as such. Employers have a pool of free labour that has been created by the Government, the Labour Party in particular. That is what the interns are doing. In the past, it was paid employment and includes those within Departments and local authorities. Previously, this was carried out by civil servants and local authority workers and now it is being carried out by people on internships. Real jobs are there, such as for retail assistants, that were entry-level jobs in the past. People got experience while being paid.

Germany has over 300 apprenticeship schemes, while Ireland has 24. The Government has started to address the issue, which I welcome, but the document states that the work must happen quicker to ensure the inappropriate nature of JobBridge is dealt with. The only way this can be done is by scrapping it.

Will the Minister ensure proper jobs, not JobBridge, are promoted? For instance, JobsPlus is subsidised employment with the subsidy given to the employer. I am fully behind it because it creates real full-time jobs yet the Department and the Government are continually trumpeting free labour. Some 37,000 positions in the past four years have been created. Let us think of that as a subsidy for employers with no benefit in the main. The Minister suggests I was selectively quoting from the Indecon report. If the Minister wants me to read the entire Indecon report-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We do not have time. A question, please.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

I will not do it. It is a substantial document. In the Indecon report, the majority of people who found work afterwards were on a lower wage than their co-workers in employment.

Deputy Alex White

The Deputy has raised a number of issues. Glimpses of reasonableness come out here and there in what he said about what the Government is doing. He is acknowledging fairly that the Government is bringing forward policies in the area of apprenticeships. These are substantive and ultimately will be successful policies on apprenticeships. There was an increase of over 40% in apprenticeships last year and new apprenticeships across the board. I was happy to be associated with the announcement by eircom of 300 new apprentices in that organisation. There will be others in the coming weeks and I hope the Deputy will welcome them.

Deputy Ó Snodaigh talks about real jobs and I remind the House that 330,000 people lost their jobs under the previous Administration. It was the greatest economic catastrophe the Government has ever seen. There was a collapse in employment, in the banking system, in economic activity and in living standards. That is what the Government faced and has been addressing very successfully. Deputy Ó Snodaigh asked about real jobs. Some 80,000 real new jobs have been created since 2011. Deputy Ó Snodaigh is correct to concentrate on unemployment. What have we done? We reduced it from 15% in 2012 to 10.5% in February of this year. By any reasonable person's standard and by any objective standard, it is a remarkable achievement and no Deputy, irrespective of what side he is on can possibly deny it.

Deputy Bernard J. Durkan

Hear, hear.

Deputy Alex White

Members can be critical-----

Deputy Finian McGrath

How many jobs were created on the north side?

Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

Loads.

Deputy Alex White

-----can call for more action, can suggest more needs to be done with JobBridge and can press for more apprentices but they cannot deny the facts that are staring them in the face, which is that the Government has turned around the economy and more jobs are being created every day of the week. No Deputy on the Opposition side can deny it because they can see it in their constituencies. Of course there are real jobs.

To the extent that the Deputy wants us to examine aspects of the JobBridge programme, if he has reasonable criticisms, like his party leader, Deputy Gerry Adams, he could table a parliamentary question on the matter. We will give careful consideration to his report and anything he wants to say.

Deputy Tom Fleming

On Tuesday, we had a huge gathering outside the gates of Leinster House regarding the childhood sector and the lack of investment in a sector that is undervalued. This is epitomised by the low levels of investment and the high cost for parents. Some 25,000 staff are employed, and in many cases they are on low wages and have temporary contracts. Many engaged in child care services are earning little more than the minimum wage. As a result, the services are losing qualified and experienced, professional people. They can no longer afford to remain in the profession. It is time the Government steps in, recognises and accepts that it has a responsibility to provide sufficient funding to ensure high quality and delivery of service is maintained. There is an urgent need to raise the current level of spending on the early childhood care and education scheme from the current level of 0.2% of GDP to the European average of 0.7% of GDP.

The people on the protest on Tuesday were not seeking that parents pay more, nor were they seeking to increase the strain on service providers. Parents are paying as much as they can and service providers are already struggling to meet their staff costs, overheads and running costs. Recognition must be given to the preschool stage as a critical and integral part of the delivery of early childhood services as part of educational services.

Will the Minister and the Government address the following priorities? There should be a national pay scale for childhood professionals tied to increased Government investment within three to five years. The free preschool contract should be extended to statutory holiday entitlements and training days. This will cease making seasonal workers out of qualified and experienced practitioners. There should be increased availability and uptake of FETAC level 6 degrees and continual professional development courses and investment in the early baby stages for those aged up to three years.

Deputy Alex White

I thank Deputy Tom Fleming for raising this important issue. The Government will invest €260 million in child care this year, supporting child care provision for more than 100,000 children in the State. Despite budgetary pressures, the Government was determined to protect the early childhood care and education programme so that children continue to have access to this vital opportunity and to protect the employment of thousands of child care workers, to which the Deputy refers. The early childhood care and education scheme provides one year of preschool care and education to more than 67,000 children, saving parents approximately €2,500 a year in child care costs. This week, my colleague, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Reilly, is commencing a high level interdepartmental group to conduct a focus study on the area and to set out the direction of what the Deputy is looking for a whole-of-Government approach to future investment in child care. This applies to the early years and school age children. The group will set out the policy goals for future investment, which is at the heart of the matter; examine current provision to see if it is a good fit for the goals; learn from best practice, including the experience of other countries; identify costed options for future investment; and,make recommendations to the Minister.

The group is due to report to the Government in six months' time.

The Minister and the Government are alive to the issue raised by the Deputy. The terms and conditions of employment, as well as the career stability prospects for individuals working in the sector, are extremely important. Irrespective of what public service they are providing, it is important that staff have stability of employment, a stake in their jobs and can see a future for themselves in their work. We value their involvement and contributions, as well as the involvement of the trade unions. It is welcome that Deputies are responding to the issue after it was raised this week. It is an important debate and the issues Deputy Tom Fleming raised will be considered by the Minister when he receives the report.

Deputy Tom Fleming

I welcome the Minister's statement on the working group. It is imperative that the report be fast forwarded because we need to put in place a strategy for the next three to five years. I, therefore, ask that the matter be expedited and treated with urgency.

In the past 30 years Ireland changed from a society in which mothers, by and large, stayed at home to one in which there is greater diversity and engagement in work because of the need to expand the workforce. Facilities have been put in place, but we have fallen down in providing adequate resources and funding to ensure the provision of high quality services in this sector. The societal changes that have taken place should be recognised by the Government, even at this late stage, and reflected in its policies and budgets. I, therefore, ask that the matter be addressed in the next budget. The State should also fund administration costs which are outside the area of direct contact with children. Assessments and meetings are necessary, but there is no funding for that additional work. I urge the Government to increase the level of early childhood capitation funding and link it with the nationally agreed pay scales, introduce mechanisms to ensure children with additional needs will be supported in engaging as equals in their early childhood education setting, and include free hours to engage in continuing professional development as part of all Government funded schemes to enable those working in the sector to fully implement the national curriculum and quality frameworks.

Deputy Alex White

I will communicate the Deputy's insights to the Minister, Deputy James Reilly. Many of the points he raised are valid. It is not a question of the Government waking up to the importance of child care. We are very conscious of the importance of proper systems of child care and investing in the sector. Like every other sector, its ability to expand was arrested by the fact that resources were greatly limited owing to the economic situation. The country is now in a much better place and it is possible to look to the future with more confidence, particularly in the child care sector. It is extremely important for families, but it is also an economic imperative that we support it. As the Deputy noted, the nature of work and working patterns have changed. In fairness to the child care system, it has reflected this. The Government has undertaken or supported a number of initiatives in this regard, including child care employment and training supports, the community child care subvention programme, community employment child care programme and the after school child care scheme. Numerous schemes and programmes are in place, but we want to see further investment in the sector. The Minister will study the report of the group. Representatives of various Departments, all of the agencies involved, the trade unions and interested parties can contribute to the group's work and the Minister will then be in a position to make proposals for developing the sector further. This is critical for individuals and families, as well as the economy.