Vol. 959 No. 7
28. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment when it is expected a contract will be awarded for the national broadband scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41703/17]
I hope the Minister does not read the answer he gave previously to very similar questions and that we start to get into the nitty gritty of this. Caithfidh mé rud amháin a rá i dtús báire. Ní haon mholadh é féinmholadh agus ba cheart don Aire cuimhneamh ar sin. Nowadays fibre is no more complicated than copper was 20 years ago. It is a little thing that is hung on the top of a telephone pole and run it from pole to pole and join it just like a copper one in a slightly different technological way. The Minister should not give us the line that this is some technological revolution. It is not. Is it a fact that the Minister and the Department predict that by 2020 a total of 180,000 houses will not have fibre broadband?
I have given a detailed outline on the current status of the procurement process in my responses to the priority questions on today's Order Paper.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
The Deputy will be aware that this procurement process will select a bidder, or bidders, who will roll-out a new high speed broadband network to remote and rural areas not served by commercial operators. The successful bidder, or bidders, will build, maintain and operate this State intervention network for the next 25 years. Last Tuesday, 26 September 2017, was the closing date for bidders to submit their detailed solutions in the procurement process and I can confirm that my Department received submissions from two bidders. These bidders were Eircom Limited and the Granahan McCourt, enet, SSE, John Laing Group plc consortium. This is a significant and positive milestone in the process and the path to a digitally equal Ireland. The submissions received means that we are at the final stages of this procurement process.
My Department's specialist national broadband plan, NBP, team will now evaluate these two submissions over the coming weeks, with the expectation that very early in 2018 bidders will be invited to submit final tenders.
I am confident that the combination of existing commercial investment and the State intervention will make Ireland an exemplar in Europe and beyond, in terms of providing high speed services to all citizens regardless of where they live or work.
Deputy Ó Cuiv is right. It is easy to physically string the cable from pole to pole. As he knows, because he travels across rural Ireland just as I do, it is not as simple as that because some of these poles are red rotten and have to be replaced. Some have overhanging trees, some are missing altogether. There is much labour intensive work to be carried out in advance. It is not just as simple as sticking one piece of fibre to the other because light is being transferred through it. The connection has to be seamless. There are very specialised staff who do that. That is why the two bidders in the State intervention phase of the national broadband plan have decided to roll out fibre rather than any other solution as the main source of high speed broadband across Ireland.
The Deputy is right. It is amazing that this is not being rolled out elsewhere. As I said before the Deputy came into the House, we are now the global leader, and I am open to correction on this, in that 13% of our premises outside of our cities have access to pure fibre. That is unheard of anywhere in the world. That will continue to ramp up over the months and years to come. I believe that by 2020 a minimum of 91% of premises will have access to high speed broadband. I believe it will be higher than that because of the progress we have made in the 3.6 GHz spectrum. We are the first country to auction off spectrum that can take 5G. Several companies that are considering rolling out high speed wireless and mobile point to point services have already been to me but I am not going to commit myself to a figure higher than 91% until I can stand over it. The Deputy knows as well as I do that people are sick and tired of promises that are not fulfilled. I am not going to give a figure until I know that I can stand over it. I believe it will be higher than 91% but I am not going to say that until I know exactly.
Can the Minister confirm that not one house in this country has been connected to fibre or anything else under his national broadband scheme?
That is not true.
Before Eir signed a contract with the Minister it had committed publicly to rolling out fibre broadband to 300,000 houses. Can the Minister confirm that Ireland is unusual in having a very high percentage of the population living in non-agglomerated areas? People call them rural areas, I call them the people with bigger back gardens. One would think there was some awful magic at work because we do not all have to live on top of each other. No matter what the world is doing it was a very simple objective for us in this island to decide that within the part of this State that we control that every house would have fibre broadband. That was not rocket science.
The Minister talks about overhanging trees and replacing poles. They have been doing that since the telephone was invented. Can the Minister give me a date on which he thinks that he would sign a contract with some company to provide broadband under the national broadband scheme?
Yes, Ireland is unique in European terms in respect of its dispersed population in that 38% of our population lives on 96% of the landmass of the country. A total of 27% of the population lives in villages of fewer than 50 homes whereas the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, OECD, average is 11%. Vint Cerf, one of the founders of the Internet who was here at the Dublin Data Summit on 16 June, said, "[Y]ou are working one of the hardest problems we know about. Highly distributed, highly rural, low density population ... So your success in this will be a real beacon for other populations that have this similar sort of rural population". International experts are looking to Ireland because what we are doing has not been done anywhere else in the world and under the national broadband plan, and through its commercial stimulus aspect, 10% of the premises that have been passed by the Eir contract to date, which is approximately 100,000 properties, have connected to pure fibre and I am told approximately 20% of those 100,000 have connected with the SIRO roll-out. Between 10% and 20% is the rate of connection to pure fibre on foot of the commercial stimulus aspect of the national broadband plan.
Can the Minister give me an estimate of when he hopes to sign a contract for the national broadband scheme? It is a very simple question.
I do not know what is wrong with the international experts that they think there is anything revolutionary or physically difficult in putting a little bit of fibre into every premises on this tiny island. If they have a problem with that, the kids on the street cannot see it. It is a problem purely in the head. It is obvious that we will have to invest, as we invest millions of euro in the basic infrastructure of our cities. For the whole country this will be half of the cost of the Tuam to Gort motorway. That is not a problem. If they have a problem with it the Minister should not start quoting them. Will the Minister please give me the date when he expects the contract to be signed?
Deputy Ó Cuív was the Minister in the Government that signed the national broadband scheme. Does he remember that?
Yes.
It was a simple scheme. The day it went live, it was obsolete.
That was not the question I asked.
The Deputy should listen to me. It was obsolete the day it went live. The problem is that there have been Ministers in the past who thought it was just as simple as that and we ended up with the disaster we have now. There are people around Ireland at the moment who are relying on the national broadband scheme and it is appalling. We are not even a decade down the road from that having been introduced.
We are rolling out a network that will stand the test of time, just as electricity did in the past when colleagues in this House at the time said who in God’s name will be using all of this electricity that we are generating, that we started 90 years ago in Ardnacrusha. We were the first country in the world to bring electricity to every single home. There have been tomes published on how that happened. There will not be the same on this. It will be one small chapter in the story of Ireland because it will happen quickly and every single home will get access to high speed broadband.
29. Deputy Gino Kenny asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if he will be attending the Bonn COP conference in November 2017; if he will be able to give a commitment that the State will meet its obligations under the Paris treaty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41844/17]
Speaking of Ardnacrusha, that was a moment when the State made a radical decision which worked to build a hydro-electric energy station.
Will the Minister be attending the Bonn climate conference and will he have to admit there that on the critical question of climate change, the Government is failing to take the kind of radical action necessary to avoid massive fines for the State's failure to meet emission targets, and to take seriously the move to transition to a low carbon economy that will protect our environment and help to protect the entire planet? Does he agree that we are failing disastrously in this regard? We are nowhere close to meeting our targets.
The Deputy has two minutes to answer.
We will be here for a while if we propose to take Questions Nos. 30, 33, 48 and 65 together.
Which questions is the Minister answering?
I apologise, I am one question ahead of myself.
We are on Question No. 29, which stands alone.
The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC, will hold its 23rd Conference of the Parties, COP 23, in Bonn, Germany, from 6 to 17 November 2017. This meeting will be the second since the adoption of the Paris Agreement in December 2015, with negotiations since then focusing on developing the rule book necessary to give full effect to the Paris Agreement. I expect to attend the high level segment of the conference and my Department will lead Ireland's delegation for the full conference. The Paris Agreement sets out a long-term goal to put the world on track to limit global warming to well below 2° Centigrade above pre-industrial levels and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5° Centigrade. Additionally, the agreement aims to strengthen the ability of countries to deal with the impacts of climate change through resilience and adaptation, and to make finance flows consistent with a pathway towards low greenhouse gas emissions and climate-resilient development.
Ireland will contribute to meeting the objectives of the Paris Agreement via the commitment tabled by the EU on behalf of its Member States in 2015. This commits to a reduction of at least 40% in EU-wide emissions by 2030 compared with 1990 levels, which will be met through reductions of 43% in the EU Emissions Trading System, ETS, and 30% in the non-ETS sector compared with 2005 levels. The specific details of Ireland's contribution, as well as the contributions to be made by other member states, are currently being negotiated at EU level.
The parties to the UNFCCC are committed to finalising, in 2018, the structures through which the Paris Agreement will drive adaptation, mitigation, transparency and capacity-building action. The agreement also provides for a facilitative dialogue, scheduled for 2018, which will assess the adequacy of global efforts to date to meet the agreement's objectives. This will, in turn, lay the foundations for a global stocktake process which will drive, on a five year basis beginning in 2023, continual progress and increased ambition by all parties towards the achievement of the goals of the agreement.
The ambition of Ireland for the forthcoming COP meeting, together with our European Union partners, is to ensure that sufficient progress is made, across the full range of issues, to ensure that COP 24 in 2018 is in a position to formally adopt the key elements of the Paris Agreement rule book.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
This will, among other things, provide that the Global Stocktake process will be able to commence and operate effectively towards meeting the overall objectives of the agreement. In addition, I expect that this COP will provide additional clarity on how the facilitative dialogue process will operate, as well as on the role of non-State actors in implementing the Paris Agreement through the Global Climate Action Agenda.
The Minister has not answered the question in so far as it applies to Ireland and this State's ability to meet its targets, to take climate change seriously and do something about it. Does the Minister accept that we are failing disastrously? Carbon emissions are increasing. They have increased from 56 million tonnes of carbon during the 1990s to almost 60 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent now, so it is worsening. The EPA says Ireland faces significant fines and that we are nowhere near meeting our targets. We can forget about the 20% target, as it says we would be lucky to get as much as a 4%, 5% or 6% reduction in emissions. Friends of the Earth says that we are denial.
It is clear what is happening. I raised the matter of forestry recently. We are pathetically underperforming in our afforestation programme. We are nowhere close to targets we had in the past. Our public transport is very expensive. We have some of the lowest levels of subsidy in Europe and there has been no serious reduction in car use because we are not doing anything to significantly reduce the cost of public transport and improve its quality. We are still awarding licences for gas and oil exploration. The renewable energy scheme appears focused on big corporations and is not available to small businesses and communities. Is it not the case that we are failing?
I agree with the Deputy that we are coming from a very difficult position. Over the previous decade, the money was not available to make the investments that were needed. The targets that were set for 2020 did not accurately reflect from where we were coming. Nevertheless, my focus is on ensuring we can not only achieve our 2030 targets but exceed them. Undoubtedly, we face a very challenging road ahead in this regard. We are making significant progress in some areas. For example, we are a global leader in the development of ocean energy technology. We are also the global leader in variable renewable energy, such as wind on the grid, where we can take a 60% loading on an isolated grid, which is something that no other country in the world has done to date. We have genotyped 1 million cattle, which will have a direct impact in beef production. We are making progress. It is not as quick as it should be and it is correct that it will have to be increased significantly from here on.
The Minister mentioned a number of things. Take the area of forestry. We are all aware of the carbon sink but I am not aware of any attempt to ramp that up. There has been talk about it but nothing has been done. There will be no increase in the current levels of investment or changes in policy. Why is it that we do not slash public transport fares? If we want to get people out of cars, we should slash fares. They are very expensive. Where is a big insulation programme being rolled out, one that is easy and affordable for people to reduce their energy use? Why are all the research and development tax credits going to multinational corporations instead of into universities to develop sustainable renewable energy sources?
The Government has renewed focus in this area. We had a full day discussion on the area of climate and related aspects and that will be reflected in the budget next week. We will roll out the renewable heat incentive scheme later this year which will have an impact not only in stimulating biomass but also making the forestry crop far more valuable. I met Coilte yesterday in regard to mobilising forestry and timber production. Things are happening in the area. I understand the Deputy's frustration, and I equally share that frustration and the belief that things need to move and must move faster. It will take not merely a whole of Government approach but a whole of society approach. That is why the national dialogue on climate change is so vitally important to engage communities across the country. I met a group of young people from Ballinasloe last week who were talking about climate refugees. Each second, nine people are moving from their homes because of climate. That starts here in Ireland. We have it in the Shannon Callows where families who have been there for generations have had to move. It is happening in our own communities and we must motivate them.
31. Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the status of the roll-out of high speed broadband in County Kildare to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41710/17]
32. Deputy James Browne asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment his plans for the roll-out of rural broadband across County Wexford; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41888/17]
43. Deputy Thomas Byrne asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the likely impact on homes in County Meath that are awaiting broadband connection in view of the recent withdrawal by a company (details supplied) from the national broadband plan procurement process. [41722/17]
56. Deputy Charlie McConalogue asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the position regarding the commitment to provide high speed broadband to every house and business in County Donegal; the deadline for same; the number of homes and businesses which currently have access to high speed broadband; the number of additional homes and businesses which will get access to high speed broadband in 2017; the number which will get access in 2018; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41709/17]
58. Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the number of homes in County Kildare that are currently without high speed broadband; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41711/17]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 31, 32, 43, 56 and 58 together.
The National Broadband Plan is about connecting people in towns and villages across Ireland to high speed broadband through a State-led intervention and commercial investment.
The State-led intervention is progressing, with my Department evaluating the bidders' submissions received last week, with a view to final tenders being received in 2018. In the interim, broadband roll-out continues through significant investment by commercial operators to a value of €1.8 million per day. This investment would not be taking place, connecting people at the rate they are being connected, were it not for the State's national broadband plan. The areas referenced by the Deputies in their questions are a prime example of this.
There are over 81,000 premises in County Wexford, 60,000 of which fall within the blue area of the national broadband plan map. This means that they are to be covered by commercial operators. Of these 60,000 premises, approximately 20,000 form part of eir's planned rural deployment to deliver high speed broadband between now and the end of 2018. The remaining 21,000 premises in County Wexford fall within the amber area and will be part of the State-led intervention under the national broadband plan.
There are over 90,000 premises in County Kildare, 77,000 of which fall within the blue area of the map and are covered by commercial operators. Of these 77,000 premises, approximately 7,000 are part of eir's planned rural deployment. The remaining 13,000 premises in County Kildare fall within the amber area and will be part of the State intervention phase of the national broadband plan.
There are over 101,000 premises in County Donegal, 68,000 of which fall within the blue area of the map and are covered by commercial operators. Just under 17,000 of these 68,000 premises form part of eir's planned rural deployment to deliver high speed broadband between now and the end of next year. The remaining 33,000 premises in County Donegal fall within the amber area and will be part of the State-led intervention phase under the national broadband plan.
There are over 83,000 premises in County Meath, 64,000 of which fall within the blue area of the map and are covered by commercial operators. Of these 64,000 premises, over 10,000 form part of eir's planned rural deployment to deliver high speed rural broadband by the end of next year. The remaining 19,000 premises fall within the amber area and will be part of the State-led intervention phase of the national broadband plan.
This commercial investment will continue through 2018 and beyond. By early next year the State-led intervention will be at final tender stage and extend the reach of broadband to all citizens. By 2020 nine out of ten premises the length and breadth of Ireland will have access to high speed broadband.
The mobile phone and broadband task force was established in July 2016 to consult and engage with telecoms industry representatives in order to identify solutions which could be implemented in the short, medium and long term to alleviate telecommunications deficits, particularly in rural Ireland and particularly in relation to broadband, prior to the full build and roll-out of the network planned in the State-led intervention phase of the national broadband plan. Under the task force, engagement between telecommunications operators and local authorities through the broadband officers is continuing to strengthen. These broadband officers are acting as single points of contact in local authorities for their communities. Their appointment is already reaping rewards in ensuring a much greater degree of consistency in engagements with operators and clearing obstacles to infrastructure. There is a link to the list of local broadband officers on my Department's website.
I thank the Minister. I asked this question because of the deep frustration felt by people in County Wexford. Fibre broadband to the home is the key to bridging the rural divide in providing access to digital technologies. In County Wexford there are areas that completely lack access to broadband. People are getting deeply frustrated, fed up and annoyed at this. In particular, lack of access to broadband is holding back rural economies which have potential. They want to develop their economies, but they are simply not able to do so. It extends out and does not just affect businesses. Pretty much everything done at home, whether it be homework, completing grant or medical card applications or whatever else, is now done online now and people cannot do it. Similarly, the farming community which wants to develop modern efficient technologies on their farms cannot do so without access to broadband. Providing access to high speed fibre broadband is absolutely critical for all rural communities.
I thank the Deputy. He is right and I understand his frustration. As the worst broadband speeds in Ireland are in Roscommon and east Galway, I understand exactly the frustration he is experiencing. As I said to Deputy Eamon Ó Cuív earlier, if we could provide high speed broadband for every home in Ireland on the back of a hare, it cannot come quickly enough as far as I am concerned. That is why the broadband task force is so important in dealing with those in the amber area who are not part of the current roll-out phase of the national broadband plan. They are waiting for completion of the procurement process, particularly in the last 7% or 8% of more isolated areas. On entering the Department 12 months ago, I released 3.6 GHz of spectrum. That auction took place earlier this year and allows for the roll-out of point to point mobile and fixed wireless 5G broadband services in the more isolated parts of Ireland. Already one operator bidding for the contract has come to me and expects to cover 85% of the landmass of the country by 2019. This will deal with many people in County Wexford and other counties who are in the amber area.
I was surprised when I was told by an operator within the past week that some local authorities still charged development charges for telecommunications infrastructure. I want to make it quite clear to the House that I will publicly name those local authorities if they do not stop doing this. They have been issued with a request by the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government on a number of occasions not to do so. This is curtailing the roll-out of wireless and mobile broadband services to those counties and they need to be held accountable for it.
I thank the Minister. I certainly hope no local authority is holding up the development of broadband services which are absolutely critical for the development of communities. The Minister has explained very well and clearly how this will happen. The mechanics have been quite well explained, but this probably adds even more to people's frustration as they see that it is not rocket science but more bicycle mechanics and they cannot understand how it is not happening by now. Particular areas, whether it be Enniscorthy, Wexford, New Ross or Gorey, are blighted by the lack of broadband. I certainly hope to see services developed as soon as possible in all of these areas in order that we can free rural communities to maximise their talents, opportunities and ideas which are being held back.
I am disappointed that some local authorities are doing this and the Deputy might assist me in that regard. I would appreciate his assistance and ask colleagues in the House to do it also. I am working with the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, to exempt 4G antennae and other telecommunications infrastructure to fast-track the planning process to try to deploy this technology as quickly as possible. The other work I am doing with the Minister, Deputy Michael Ring, and the Minister of State, Deputy Seán Kyne, who has taken over responsibility for this aspect as and from the Cabinet meeting held last Tuesday, is looking at how we can exploit the broadband that will be brought into every village across rural Ireland in the next 12 months. We are looking at whether we can have hot desks in local community centres and local GAA clubs in order that instead of lads who are playing with the local football team or even the local hurling team having to commute to Dublin five days a week, they can actually work from their local GAA pitch or their local community centre. It is not perfect and not ideal, but it is a damn sight better than what they have had up to now. All of this is happening and I need everyone's assistance in the House to progress it.
Deputy Thomas P. Broughan has been waiting patiently and with his agreement the Minister will answer the question and we will have one supplementary question.
34. Deputy Thomas P. Broughan asked the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment if he is conducting a review of his Department's strategy to combat energy poverty 2016 to 2019; the way in which he plans to further reduce energy poverty in 2018; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41700/17]
I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The strategy to combat energy poverty published in 2016 sets out the actions that will be taken between 2016 and 2019 to alleviate the burden of energy poverty on the most vulnerable in society. It focuses on a small number of high impact actions that will make a real difference to the lives of those living in energy poverty. In 2019 my Department will undertake a public consultation process to review the strategy.
This consultation will review the progress made in understanding energy poverty in Ireland, allow for a broader debate on whether the general policy direction is reducing levels of energy poverty, and whether new approaches are required.
The better energy warmer homes scheme, which is administered by the SEAI, is the Government's main scheme for addressing energy poverty. It delivers a range of energy efficiency measures free of charge to low-income households, allowing them to heat their homes adequately while making them less vulnerable to increases in energy costs or decreases in income. To date, nearly 125,000 low-income households have received a free energy efficiency upgrade under the scheme.
The better energy warmer homes scheme will continue in 2018, and I intend to continue working with the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection to ensure eligibility for the scheme is consistent with its income support schemes. If data on social inclusion demonstrate that particular groups are vulnerable to deprivation, an amendment of the scheme will be considered to ensure these groups receive support. This was already done in 2016 when eligibility for the scheme was extended to lone parent families in line with evidence gathered under the survey on income and living conditions, which suggested that basic deprivation is particularly acute for lone parent families.
In 2016, my Department launched the warmth and well-being pilot scheme in partnership with the Department of Health, the HSE and the SEAI. It is accepted that housing is a social determinant of health and, as such, a cold, damp house can contribute to poor health and poor well-being of the residents. The scheme will measure the impact that an energy efficiency upgrade can have on the health and well-being of people living with chronic respiratory conditions and build an evidence base for expansion. This scheme will continue in 2018, and I expect to allocate at least €20 million in funding to the pilot by the end of 2018 to provide for the upgrade of at least 1,500 homes.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
People living in rented accommodation are generally more vulnerable to energy poverty. My Department has worked with external experts to examine the impact of introducing minimum energy efficiency standards for rented properties. My Department is now working to update the research findings with updated data from the 2016 census. When this is done I intend to present the findings with a view to publishing the research and engaging in full public consultation.
The Commission for the Regulation of Utilities, CRU, formerly the Commission for Energy Regulation, CER, is responsible for ensuring a high standard of protection for all energy customers, including those in energy poverty, and delivers on this by publishing guidelines and requirements such as the supplier's handbook. The handbook sets out minimum service requirements that suppliers must adhere to in their dealings with energy customers. All suppliers are required to have in place a code of practice on vulnerable consumers.
I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for his kindness in allowing a few extra minutes. I thank the Minister for his reply. Regarding the actions he has taken, has he set up the independently chaired energy poverty advisory group, which I believe he promised as part of the strategy? He is very aware of how huge a problem this is. All Deputies are. It is estimated that 400,000 households live with some kind of energy poverty, and Age Action states perhaps 2,000 senior citizens die from energy-poverty-related illnesses each year. The Minister mentioned the warmth and well-being energy efficiency programme, which I welcome. Is it possible to extend that? The pilot scheme was in action in the south side of Dublin. When does the Minister intend to extend the programme to the postal areas of Dublin 3, 5, 9, 13 and 17, the postal areas in the area I represent, Dublin Bay North?
The Minister mentioned SEAI and the work it does through the warmer homes initiative. He promised there would be free upgrades. He reported that 120,000 homes had gone through the better energy warmer homes scheme. Was there more action on that?
The EU programme Horizon 2020 was the background to the Minister's promoting and financing of energy efficiency in Ireland. The associated event took place earlier this year in Dublin. What was the outcome of that? Is the Minister in a position to secure further EU funding to tackle this very real problem? It is huge European problem, as the Minister knows. Some 54 million people are affected by energy poverty in the European Union.
It is a problem. I spoke at the International Energy Agency meeting in Paris before the summer and talked about the pilot warmth and well-being scheme. It took me half an hour to get down through the auditorium afterwards given the number of Ministers who were coming up to me from right across the globe in regard to this.
With regard to the warmer homes scheme for 2017, up to the end of August 4,515 homes received an energy efficiency upgrade under the scheme, with capital expenditure of €11.5 million. By the end of the year, we expect to spend €21.2 million in providing upgrades in relation to that.
On the expansion of the warmer homes scheme, the Deputy's question is one I ask myself because there is a small bit of ground west of the River Shannon to which it would be nice to see it extended. It is a phenomenal scheme. It needs to be ramped up significantly right across this country. The decisions on locations were made by the HSE, not by our Department, sadly. I know of a few locations I would like to be considered. The empirical evidence that will start coming through from the end of this year will give us grounds for making a case to expand the scheme, not just to other parts of Dublin but to parts across the country.
