Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 14 Dec 2022

Vol. 1031 No. 2

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

Deputy Pauline Tully

We are two and a half years into the programme for Government yet the transfer of specialist disability services from the Department of Health to the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth has still not taken place.

We understand that the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is behind the delay. As a consequence, the Minister for Health will no longer deal with matters relating to disability services and budgets for which he says he is no longer responsible. Nor will the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, until the transfer of functions has been completed. Shamefully, the additional funding for disability services announced in September's budget cannot be spent until the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform signs off on it. Disability services are just two weeks away from year end. We are experiencing the coldest winter in years as well as ever-increasing operational costs. Will the Minister commit to finally signing off on the financial governance arrangements needed to finalise the transfer before he leaves office this week? If he does not, there are services that will simply not be in a position to open safely in January.

Minister for Health (Deputy Stephen Donnelly)

The Government agreed yesterday that the formal transfer of functions will happen on 1 March 2023. The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, will be the lead for all disability services. I can assure the Deputy that right across Government the pressing issues are being addressed, particularly in areas such as children's disability services. Given the fact that waiting lists have gone up since the court ruling on assessment of need happened, it is a top priority. There is a new strategy being finalised. We will be dedicating a lot of resources and attention to hiring the therapists we need in the children's disability teams to get these children the care they need.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Last week I raised the issue of childcare in this House, and Labour Party Senators put down a motion calling for universal access to childcare and for the Government to ensure that every child will have an early years place. We were disappointed that the Government put down a countermotion in the Seanad. However, among other things, the Government countermotion called for a transition to a universal public childcare system. That is very welcome. We know that it is sorely needed by many parents and families across the country. The Citizens' Assembly on Gender Equality has also called for it. Indeed, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Gender Equality will be publishing its report on that tomorrow. The real problem remains a lack of spaces in childcare facilities. Constituents tell me every week about their difficulties in seeking to access a place in an early years setting. People in my own constituency cannot even get onto waiting lists for crèches in the area because there are so few spaces. What is the Government going to do to address the issue of the shortage of places in childcare settings around the country?

Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Deputy Michael McGrath)

The issue here is the new core funding model. Our aim, in introducing the core funding model, is to make sure that the provision of service is viable for providers and that staff have good terms and conditions. We have seen a lot of progress in that regard with the new employment regulation order. I acknowledge the role of SIPTU in the Big Start campaign in that respect. We want to ensure that childcare is affordable for parents and that children get the best quality service that can possibly be provided. We have seen a step change in investment in childcare over the past two years as a Government. I believe that will make a difference in relation to supply. We are very much aware of the tightness of supply in certain parts of the country in particular. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, is working with his officials and the sector to fully implement the Government's new policy on childcare to provide that investment and make sure that we increase capacity across the country.

Deputy Jennifer Whitmore

A group of protesters stood at the gates of Leinster House yesterday calling for the immediate publication of Dr. Geoffrey Shannon's report into historical child sexual abuse allegations within St. John Ambulance Ireland, SJAI. It has been reported that the organisation's board received the report a number of weeks ago, yet it is not expected to be published until some time in 2023. It is reasonable to arrive at the conclusion that if the reports findings were favourable to SJAI, it would have been published by now. The delay in its publication is compounding the profound sense of hurt felt by survivors and is retraumatising victims. Survivors also feel that their story has been eclipsed by recent revelations of child sex abuse at the hands of members of the Spiritans and that their suffering is not being given the priority it deserves. Will the Government break the silence and commit to the full publication of Dr. Shannon's report, which is clearly in the public interest and in the interest of survivors?

Deputy Michael McGrath

As the Deputy stated, St. John Ambulance commissioned Dr. Shannon to conduct a review of historical allegations of abuse within the organisation. I understand the findings have been presented to the board of the organisation. It is the Government's expectation that St. John Ambulance will publish the report thereafter. It has been reported in the media that it is expected that the report will be published early next year, after a legal, insurance and data protection review has been carried out. Tusla is responsible for assessing any current risk to children arising from historical allegations of abuse. Tusla has liaised with St. John Ambulance regarding the progress of the review in order to improve safeguarding process within the organisation. St. John Ambulance's safeguarding statement, revised under advice from Tusla, has been deemed compliant by the child safeguarding statement compliance unit. Officials from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth are in regular contact with Tusla on this issue to monitor progress of the review.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Why does the Government continue to repeat the false mantra that objections by residents groups to planning applications, rather than the speculation of property investors are the cause of the housing crisis and the slow delivery of housing and residential development, particularly when a Government report says that it is speculation? The report, published in July, shows 75,000 planning permission applications for apartments, but only 5,000 apartments are being built annually. It explains that this "could indicate the speculative purchasing and holding of land with a view to greater future resale value", acquiring planning permissions to hold as an asset. It goes on to say that "acquiring permission for apartment development, rather than housing developments, could be the most attractive option for speculative land holders and thus yield the most amount of value". Why does the Government not target the speculators instead of limiting people's right to make submissions on planning applications?

Deputy Michael McGrath

We are not limiting the right of people to make submissions on planning applications. I am sure the Deputy will engage in the pre-legislative scrutiny process that will get under way when the bill is published. The Government has taken a multipronged approach to tackling the housing crisis. On the issue of speculators and hoarding and so on, as the Deputy has described it, a zoned land tax is being introduced. There is also a vacant property tax. Yesterday, the Cabinet approved the general scheme of a land value sharing levy or tax as well. The Government is addressing all of those issues, in addition to scaling up the investment through our local authorities and approved housing bodies, putting in place new affordable housing streams to increase supply. However, there is no getting away from the fact that we do need to reform our planning system. We have a choice to make. We can come in and complain about the lack of housing-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

There is no evidence in that document - not a single mention of planning.

Deputy Michael McGrath

-----and stand behind the system that clearly needs improvement.

Deputy Denis Naughten

According to a survey which I commissioned from Ireland Thinks, there are 230,000 people in Ireland who are suffering from conditions associated with long Covid, yet we have failed to establish a network of clinics to treat patients that has been promised for the last 15 months. It is now taking more than a year for people to access the long Covid clinic at St. Vincent's University Hospital, Dublin, and the only dedicated clinic for management of neurological issues associated with long Covid, based at the Mater hospital, has closed its doors due to the HSE failure to even respond to the business case submitted last July. The clinic has treated some 1,500 people this year. Two weeks ago, I asked the Taoiseach to intervene and to keep the Mater clinic open, and he committed to taking the issue up with the Minister for Health. I have heard nothing back and the doors have been closed since. What is happening? Will the Minister ensure that the Mater clinic remains open?

Deputy Stephen Donnelly

As the Deputy will be aware, we have allocated very significant funding in the budget for a national network of clinics to treat long Covid. It is a priority and I and the Government recognise that it is an area in which more and more investment is needed. I raised the issue of the clinic in the Mater directly with the HSE. The decision to close the clinic was not a political decision, as the Deputy will be aware, and I acknowledge he is not suggesting that. It was based on the clinical view of the HSE with regard to the funding of that particular clinic. The Deputy and I can have views. I know the doctor involved, who is a very eminent practitioner. He has worked very hard and has set out his case. The HSE has a different view, which has led to the removal of funding. I can commit to keeping the matter under review. I have no doubt the Deputy will continue to raise the issue and we will continue to engage on it. As he is aware, we have allocated very significant funding for a national network of treatment because people who suffer long Covid need rapid access to the best possible care.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

At the end of September 2022, there were 16,158 children waiting for initial contact from disability services, with 8,870 of them waiting for over 12 months for that initial contact. Last week, a child presented to Tipperary University Hospital with mental health difficulties.

That child waited for a paediatric psychiatrist for 50 hours in the paediatric ward. That is shocking. All the while, we have the children's hospital. Cá bhfuil sé? We are coming up to the holy season of Christmas when children will celebrate Santa. Children are waiting for supports and languishing in hospital beds. There is the never-ending runaway train of the cost of the children's hospital with money going into a dark, black hole. Most people in this Chamber voted for that site. It is the totally wrong site. It is not accessible and it will never be. One cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It is shameful. We might have photo opportunities with the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, and the Minister, Deputy Martin, out there. That is little good to the sick children who are waiting.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Anne Rabbitte)

I thank the Deputy very much for raising that issue. He is quite right. There are more than 17,000 children waiting for their initial appointment. He is also correct that in the past 12 months, we have reconfigured 91 teams all over the country to ensure that we now know how many children are on waiting lists and what the timeframe is. The Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, already spoke about what has been put in place. There is now a strategy in place to address it in order that we will get every child who has been waiting more than 12 months looked after as priority starting in January.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Exactly four years ago this month, the Government made an announcement that vessels over 80 m would be excluded from fishing in inshore waters. That followed a consultation with than 900 submissions. Subsequently, a policy directive issued. Unfortunately, it ended up in the courts with a High Court decision against the Government. Then, a Court of Appeal decision was made in July of this year for the Government. Where are we now with regard to the policy? The answer I received up until recently is that it is open season for the big vessels to go in and fish, notwithstanding that the Court of Appeal held completely in favour of the Government. I will point out that this is extremely important, not just to protect small fishermen but also with regard to ecology, biodiversity and the protection of sprat. Where are we four years after the policy was introduced?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I appreciate the importance of this issue for fishers, communities and for marine life. I do not have a specific update on that issue. However, I will ask the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, to come back to the Deputy with a detailed reply.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

At this time of year, many people are purchasing gift cards for Christmas. I have always been a big supporter of shop local, stay local, support local. We have a local voucher scheme in County Carlow. I am very concerned that the EU is proposing that any voucher like this under €150 will have to be regulated for identification. This proposal will discourage people from buying them and small shop owners will have much more paperwork. We will be cutting off a vital lifeline in our local economy.

The European Parliament was scheduled to vote on this but it was pushed back. Will we be supporting amendment No. 479 that calls for the reintroduction of the €150 exemption for low risk e-money? I absolutely call for this. I ask everyone to shop local and support local. I will get in first and wish everyone a really happy Christmas, including the Ceann Comhairle, the Ministers and all the Deputies. Of course, in my area of Carlow-Kilkenny, I wish everyone a happy Christmas and a peaceful new year.

An Ceann Comhairle

That was well said by the inimitable Deputy Murnane O'Connor. Is the Minister if State going to save the Christmas vouchers?

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Damien English)

I think we will save Carlow's retailers after this. This is an important and ongoing debate in the European Parliament and other parts of Europe as well. I certainly do not want to confuse the situation over Christmas. It is not an issue to which we are signed up as yet in any shape or form. I will get the Deputy a briefing note on it but it is not an issue of concern at this moment.

Deputy Emer Higgins

Post-primary schools in Dublin Mid-West are bursting at the seams. Secondary schools in Lucan, Clondalkin, Rathcoole and Citywest are all operating waiting lists. That means school administration teams are under pressure. It means parents are stressed out and that we are creating anxiety for children.

Research carried out independently in Clondalkin suggests there could be a shortfall of as many as 90 children between those currently in sixth class and second-level school places locally. My constituency is a really growing area. We have two strategic development zones. We have thousands of houses under construction. I am informed by the Department of Education that we have not yet reached the peak of demand. What reassurance can the Minister give parents in Clondalkin, Lucan, Rathcoole and Palmerston that their children will be in second-level schools in September?

Deputy Michael McGrath

As Deputy Higgins will know, there is a right to education. That right to education will be vindicated in the communities she represents as well. The Department of Education is very successfully implementing a school building programme. It has received a further allocation in the budget next year of €490 million. I am working closely with the Minister, Deputy Foley, and Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, to make sure new school building projects and extensions to existing schools can be progressed through the system. The Department has a good way of delivering projects and our forward planning unit is working hard with the Department of Education's planning and building unit to make sure they are in the right place where there are capacity issues.

Deputy Johnny Guirke

I was very proud to be part of a cross-party group that supported the Central Bank (Amendment) Bill 2022 to legislate for the right to be forgotten. It was supported by Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, Labour, the Social Democrats and all parties within the House. The Bill, which will seek to revive current legislation, outlines that a person seeking access to financial services will no longer have to declare a cancer diagnosis five years after finishing active treatment. Ms Rachel Morrogh from the Irish Cancer Society said that:

No cancer patient should be financially penalised for having survived cancer. Imagine being a survivor of a childhood cancer and years later being denied what many consider to be rites of passage to adulthood such as getting a mortgage, getting life insurance and even travelling abroad.

This Bill is on Second Stage in the Seanad and it looks like the Government was going to kick it down the road. The only reason for that can be to appease the insurance companies. If we cannot even push a Bill like this through, what hope have we of getting anything done?

Minister for Finance (Deputy Paschal Donohoe)

I entirely reject the premise of the Deputy's question that we are doing something that is about trying to appease the insurance sector. That is completely wrong. We brought forward a timed amendment to the Bill and we explained why in the Seanad. The first reason was because from the engagement my Department had with those who are involved in this area, in many cases, the presumption of full recovery from cancer means that person, or anybody who has suffered from the condition of cancer, is entitled to the same health evaluation as others are. Second, as was made clear in the Seanad, the European Union is considering some legislative change in this area that will bring certainty and clarity to how this matter is being dealt with. What is not motivating the Government is any intention to appease the insurance sector in any way. I can assure the Deputy of that. What we are looking to do here is treat a sensitive issue fairly and appropriately, and that is what we will do.

Deputy Seán Crowe

I do not know if there is anyone on the Government benches who can answer this. It is with regard to the numerous promises to reduce the waiting lists for those seeking a driving test across the State. Tallaght remains highest on the list consistently with more than 10,000 people waiting on tests. The two centres nearby have the second and third highest numbers in the State.

I raised this issue numerous times in this Chamber with the relevant Minister but there does not seem to be a plan in that regard. Is there any plan to deal with reducing the backlog, including perhaps a new driving test centre in the south Dublin area? Does the Minister have any update on that? If he does not, can he get one for me?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, and Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to come back to the Deputy with more detailed update. It is an issue of which they are very much aware. They are working with the Road Safety Authority, RSA, to try to clear backlogs that have developed over the last couple of years. For young people in particular, it can be a real frustration and life inhibitor if they are not able to access a test. We will follow up on that and come back to the Deputy.

Deputy Richard Bruton

Last week, the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, showed that spending in Ireland is generating 75% more emissions than the conventional measure. I want to ask the Minister about his green procurement strategy. The only data I have seen are a couple of years old and show that Ireland is well behind other European countries. I would be interested to know whether the Minister can move to implement green principles in 100% of procurement, as has been done in Holland. There are huge opportunities to cut down on emissions across buildings, canteens and transport.

Deputy Michael McGrath

It is absolutely the case that the public sector has an important role to play in reducing our carbon emissions and in the more efficient use of our energy, whether that is in terms of our building stock, the procurement practices we follow, the nature of the goods and services we buy but also with regard to the national development plan and prioritisation of climate-friendly projects all over Ireland.

We have done that in a number of ways, for example, through prioritisation of active travel and of investment in public transport infrastructure over road transport infrastructure. We have a green procurement initiative led by the Office of Government Procurement and will in the course of the climate action plan 2023 set out further detail about the implementation of that.

Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan

I have come across a number of Pepper Finance mortgage holders in a very difficult predicament. Some are in performing mortgages and have never been in arrears. Others are in split mortgage arrangements but have no arrears. Some, unfortunately, had difficulty in the past but have restructured and got back on track. I know the Minister is limited in what he can do but with the likes of Pepper Finance passing on every ECB rate and more, customers now face a variable rate of 6.3%. For many, this will undo progress made and may drive others into arrears. Will the Government look at making local authority home loans available to these people?

Minister for Finance (Deputy Paschal Donohoe)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. As he acknowledged, the Government is limited in its interventions and response to this matter because these mortgages are independently regulated by the Central Bank. Anybody whose loan book was sold to an organisation like Pepper Finance has the same consumer protection as any other loan holder. I will raise the concerns the Deputy has shared with the Central Bank and see if a response is possible from our regulator to the matter.

Deputy Carol Nolan

I know the Government is committed to improving the situation regarding car parking charges for hospital patients but last week I was contacted by two distressed people, a husband and wife, who are both seriously ill cancer patients and attend appointments in Dublin and Galway. They were in St. James’s Hospital last week for an appointment and, even though they had a disability pass, were told they would be charged. Cancer patients are under huge financial strain. I do not think this is correct and am sure the Minister will agree that it is shocking. Will he intervene with St. James's management, to whom I have already written, and the company concerned, Park Rite, to check whether such conditions are allowed? I do not believe they are because I know other hospital car parks accept the disability pass.

Minister for Health (Deputy Stephen Donnelly)

I am more than happy to chase that up. Many hospitals have arrangements whereby patients coming in for serious treatment get a card to avoid car parking charges entirely. It is different for different hospitals but if the Deputy sends me the details I will look into it.

An important measure brought in for the budget for next year, which was warmly welcomed and advocated for by the Irish Cancer Society, was the abolition of inpatient charges. Many cancer patients face bills. Not only are they dealing with the stress and trauma of their treatment and of living with cancer, but they can end up with a bill for €800 for their time in hospital in a given year. As of next year, that is being completely eradicated. It is one of the things we are doing to reduce costs across the board for patients.

Deputy David Stanton

In Midleton, there are plans to build over 5,000 houses just west of Water-rock. It is virtually a new town. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage was there recently turning a sod and Irish Water is doing major infrastructure work to make it happen. However, the N25 between Carrigtwohill and Midleton needs upgrading. A lot of money has been spent on it but this time last year the plug was pulled, I am told for budgetary reasons. The Amgen site is up the road and is one of the finest the IDA has in Ireland. The road is very unsafe. Will funding be made available this year, month or week to enable work to restart on that project?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I welcome the ambitious plans for the delivery of thousands of homes in east Cork and note the progress Irish Water is making. The delivery of water and waste water infrastructure in Midleton has been a long-standing issue and has held back its development so that is real progress.

In relation to the road infrastructure project, the N25, Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, and the Department of Transport set individual project priorities. My view is we should continue to advance projects because funding opportunities can arise in the context of underspends elsewhere in the national development plan. We will raise the issue with the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and come back directly to the Deputy.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Temperatures have fallen considerably below zero in the past week. Can the Minister visualise the situation of people forced to sleep in old caravans and mobile homes? I raised this issue last week but every night that goes by it strikes me how bad the situation is.

The national Traveller-specific caravan loan scheme was extended but only to 75 caravans. In my constituency, we need 26 but were allocated four. To provide these people with caravans will take six years at this rate. Will the Minister give me an assurance that the money will be made available to provide decent shelter to everybody in this country who needs it and that all these Traveller families will be afforded proper accommodation forthwith?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I acknowledge the Deputy’s interest in this issue and in ensuring proper Traveller accommodation is in place around the country. I will follow up with the Minister, Deputy Darragh O’Brien. I am not sure how quickly new caravans can be procured and made available if the funding is provided but we will see what we can do. We want people to be safe, warm and comfortable in this very cold weather.

Deputy Mark Ward

Earlier this year I had the proceeds of crime Bill pass Second Stage, which would see money seized by the Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, put back into disadvantaged communities. The Government copied part of this Bill and introduced the community safety innovation fund. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but not in this case. Most of the money seized by CAB has been ripped from communities where criminals have been most active, like parts of my area. It must, therefore, be returned to these communities. Six applications from my area, Dublin Mid-West, were sent in for this fund, including a local horse project and an addiction centre. Will the Minister explain how there was not one successful applicant in the whole of Dublin Mid-west, part of which constituency has been torn apart by drug use and criminality over the years?

Deputy Michael McGrath

The community safety innovation fund is an important new initiative which the Minister, Deputy McEntee, and a number of parliamentary colleagues were anxious to implement. It is about ensuring a link between where crimes are committed and proceeds are raised by CAB, for example, and the availability of those proceeds to improve investment in local communities. I do not have the details of the applications the Deputy referred to in Dublin Mid-West but I will ask the Minister to examine that and come back to the Deputy.

Deputy Michael McNamara

Shannon Commercial Enterprises, the successor to Shannon Development, is selling 5 acres of land in the Quin Road, Ennis. What has that to do with the Minister? In one corner of that land and part of the sale is a sewage pumping station into which flows sewage from Celtic tiger estates which have been taken into charge. Then it is pumped on to a State-owned treatment facility.

Shannon’s position is that after the sale, Irish Water will be free to engage with the purchaser but after the sale Irish Water will effectively be over a barrel – a barrel of sewage flowing backwards into estates that have been taken into charge. Does the Minister agree that is not a way to treat assets owned by State agencies, that that manner of treating them potentially exposes the Exchequer unnecessarily to a very large bill and that this sale should be reviewed in that context?

Deputy Michael McGrath

I do not have the full details of this-----

Deputy Michael McNamara

I am happy to provide them.

Deputy Michael McGrath

-----but it seems to me the relevant bodies need to come together. These bodies are under the aegis of different Departments and should work together to try to find a way through this issue-----

Deputy Michael McNamara

I have written to them all and the silence is deafening. Will the Minister bring them together?

Deputy Michael McGrath

-----while respecting they have different mandates. If the Deputy provides me with the details, we will try to get them talking to each other to see if a way can be found.

Deputy Niamh Smyth

I raise the plight of personal assistants across our education and training board, ETB, sector, who have the same roles and responsibilities as our very hard-working special needs assistants, SNAs.

The Minister has been instrumental in regularising their working terms and conditions but now we need to turn our attention to and focus on the same working terms and conditions, pay and holidays, for our PAs. I will tell an anecdotal story of a PA who is working in education and training board, ETB, who has been employed since 2007 and who still does not have a contract of indefinite duration, CID. After 13 years of service in the role of PA, there has been no provision for holiday pay during the summer, Easter or Christmas. They also face the humiliation of having to apply for social welfare. While they are eligible for jobseekers' allowance, they also run out of that before they return to the college in September. Those who do not have a CID also have no pension or provision for pension entitlements.

PAs have had no pay increase and I believe they have not been included in the public sector pay rise.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Niamh Smyth

I will finish, if the Ceann Comhairle allows me. These workers are predominately women. It is important to say that there are many women who are coming up to retirement age and they will go off into the sunset with absolutely nothing. I am asking the Minister to please look at this and to review contracts of indefinite duration for them and also paid holidays, incremental pay rises and pension provisions to give them the same as SNAs. I thank the Ceann Comhairle.

Deputy Michael McGrath

I will engage with the relevant bodies in relation to this issue. We made progress, as the Deputy knows, in relation to school secretaries, for example. A large group of people across the country are directly involved in providing public services on behalf of the State but are not directly employed by the State. That raises the kinds of issues the Deputy has brought up, such as not being able to benefit from Building Momentum and so on. There has been some progress in the healthcare area, in particular, through the work of the WRC. I will examine it and I will come back to the Deputy, having consulted with my relevant Cabinet colleagues.