Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 21 Feb 2023

Vol. 1033 No. 6

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Government has now signed off on its cost-of-living package. Sinn Féin has argued strongly for a spring bonus and we welcome these additional support payments to protect vulnerable people. High energy costs, food prices and increases to come in fuel costs will mean workers and families will remain under pressure.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how the three men leading Government, after spending two months in talks, could produce a package which is silent on housing. We know that extortionate housing costs are at the very heart of this crisis and yet there is nothing here for renters. These are workers and families who are fleeced by hike after hike, paying out the lion's share of their income on rent. There is nothing here for mortgage holders either. Battered by a barrage of interest rate increases, they are forced to pay hundreds of euro more in mortgage repayments and there is still more to come. The pressure is enormous.

Many renters and mortgage holders are wondering how much more they can take and are hanging on by a thread and yet, it seems, they did not even cross the Government's mind, when it put this package together.

So many of our young people are forced out of Ireland because they cannot afford a roof over their heads. They have lost hope of a good life at home because Government consistently fails to see the bigger picture on the issues affecting their lives. They watch the Government fiddle around the edges but never showing any real ambition to fix housing.

Over the weekend I spoke to one heartbroken mother whose three sons are bound for Australia. They all have good qualifications and good jobs but the extortionate cost of housing means they have no chance of building a decent future here so they have decided to go. Like so many who have already left, they worry that they will not have the chance to come back home. It is the job of the Government to fix that. Today we discuss the cost of living but we also need to talk about the cost of leaving. The cost of our young people leaving Ireland because of the housing emergency is massive. The cost and damage to society, our economy, our competitiveness, to families and to communities is a cost we cannot afford. This generation which is being forced out is brimming with talent, education, ideas but they need a Government with the determination and courage to do the big things so they can have a shot at the life they deserve. Tugann an pacáiste costais mhaireachtála a d'fhógair an Rialtas inniu neamhaird ar na costais tithíochta tubaisteacha agus tá easpa gníomhaithe ar chíosanna agus ar mhorgáistí. Níl rud ar bith don ghlún a ruaigeadh as an tír de bharr géarchéim tithíochta atá ag éirí níos measa.

In order really to get to grips with the cost of living, the Government has to deal with the extortionate cost of housing. I asked the Taoiseach last week to do three things that would help turn the tide. I am asking him again today to do these things, namely: introduce legislation to ban rent increases for three years as a matter of urgency and cut rents by putting a month's rent back into renters' pockets by means of a refundable tax credit; introduce targeted, time-bound mortgage relief to support struggling homeowners; and for those families and workers - they are many - who are terrified that they will lose their rented homes, extend the eviction ban until the end of the year.

The Taoiseach

Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil an costas maireachtála fós an-ard agus go bhfuil brú ar theaghlaigh. Tá go leor teaghlach faoi bhrú. Tá gnóthaí faoi bhrú agus tá an Rialtas ag cabhrú. Tá béim mhór ar theaghlaigh le mac léinn ar scoil, ar ghnóthaí beaga agus ar dhaoine gan mórán, mar shampla, pinsinéirí. The Government decided earlier today to agree another cost-of-living package. We are experiencing a major cost-of-living crisis in Ireland and globally. Many people are struggling to make ends meet and businesses are grappling with rising costs. However, because of the strength of our economy and the health of our public finances, we have been able to respond dynamically to help people, families, businesses and farmers to manage rising costs.

Since the cost-of-living crisis began, we have taken 25 individual actions, many of which are permanent. These include higher pay and pensions and higher weekly welfare payments, which have only kicked in during the past few weeks. They also include lower income taxes for young workers, such as some of those the Deputy mentioned, and a rent tax credit, which was only introduced in the past few weeks, of €500 per renter if paying income tax. Approximately 170,000 people have availed of that credit and we are encouraging more to do so. We have also reduced the cost of childcare - something really important for young families - bringing it down by 25%, only in the past few weeks and we wish to go further.

We have reduced the cost of healthcare, of going to school, of public transport for young people and student fees. More students will become eligible for student grants as the year goes on. This is a more targeted package than has been the case previously, but there are universal measures as well. We decided to focus on families of school-age children, pensioners and people who are very vulnerable, such as those with disabilities, carers, lone parents and SMEs.

There will be an additional €100 payment in June for families with young children. The extra €100 relating to the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance will be repeated. Low-income working families in receipt of the working family payment will receive an extra €200, which will be important as a child poverty and welfare measure. We are waiving State examination fees again this year, and there will only be a modest charge for school transport. The latter will be very welcome in rural areas in particular. Pensioners and vulnerable people will get a €200 bonus payment in April. We are extending the free hot school meals scheme to all DEIS schools and special schools. The Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, will work on plans to extend the scheme beyond DEIS schools in 2024.

The Deputy mentioned a few issues, including those relating to rents and mortgage holders. It is important to say this was not a mini-budget. We did not plan it to be such, but there is a rent tax credit. This was only introduced in the past couple of weeks and people are claiming it now. We think that in the region of 200,000 renters will benefit from this and we want more to avail of it. We already have rent pressure zones. The Deputy will know from the recent daft.ie report that for established renters, for people who are already renting, that is, the vast majority of renters, rents went up by approximately 3.6% last year. The real and major difficulty we have is with new properties coming on the market for the first time. That is where Sinn Féin's proposed rent freeze would be of no benefit whatsoever. In the context of new properties coming on the market for the first time, rents are, if I recall correctly, rising by 13%. For established renters, there will be increases of 3% to 3.6% this year.

It is important to bear in mind that people who rent and those who have mortgages are also workers.

These people use petrol, diesel, electricity and gas. I was interested to hear Sinn Féin's finance spokesperson on the radio the other day stating that the party wants the VAT rate relating to hospitality to go back up right away, that it would only extend the excise reductions on petrol and diesel until May and that it would have VAT on electricity and gas go up in May as well. Anyone who drives a petrol or diesel car or who uses electricity or gas would face tax hikes under Sinn Féin within weeks. We have put them off until much later in the year.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It beggars belief that the Government would produce a package that completely ignores the fact that rents are still out of control. Rents should not be rising by even a percentage point; they need to come down. That is not going to happen automatically; it will require the Government to take action. In the context of people paying mortgages, some of whom have been thrown to the wolves - or to the vultures, I should say - and are getting rightly screwed by the relevant institutions, the Government has given no comfort or support whatsoever. It is not sufficient for the Taoiseach to say that this is not a budget. He stated very clearly that there would be a cost-of-living package. He also stated that he is aware, since becoming back as Taoiseach, that we have a housing emergency and that this would be his top priority. He could have fooled the renters and mortgage holders of Ireland because that is not what the Government's package says.

Deputy Matt Carthy

Hear, hear.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I again ask the Taoiseach to include renters and mortgage holders in this package and to add to the measures he has announced today. I ask him to give relief to renters, mortgage holders and, in particular, those who now fear that as the eviction ban comes to an end, they may lose the roof over their heads.

The Taoiseach

There is one thing I agree with the Deputy on; rents do need to come down. Rents in Ireland are very high and are out of kilter with comparable countries, cities and regions. There are ways that we can do that. One such way is the rent tax credit, which was only introduced eight weeks ago. Nearly 200,000 people have claimed that credit already. It amounts to €500 per renter this year and next year, €1,000 per couple and €1,500 for three people renting. For many people, it is the best part of a month's rent back in their pockets.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

No, it is not.

The Taoiseach

We have the rent pressure zones. Because of these, according to Daft.ie, the vast majority of people who are renting, those who are established sitting renters and existing tenants, saw rents increase by about 3.5% last year. The huge problem we have is with very high rents on properties that are new to the market. The only thing we can do about that is increase supply. Deputy McDonald objects to increased supply-----

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

-----because it is for rents. Deputy McDonald objects to it because it is full of one-bedroom apartments for transients, as her party describes them.

Deputy Thomas Gould

What about the eviction ban?

The Taoiseach

We need more supply. That has to be public and private.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

What are people paying in Castleknock? They are paying €4,000 in Cabra.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach, without interruption. Time is up.

The Taoiseach

It has to be additional public rental properties through cost rental, which is now a reality. Last year, we think about 8,000 new social homes were built-----

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The Taoiseach thinks there were about that number built.

The Taoiseach

-----the highest number since 1975. There is also a need for private supply, which is the kind of thing the Deputy objects to all the time.

Deputy Pearse Doherty

How long is the Taoiseach there now?

Deputy Róisín Shortall

The cost-of-living package the Cabinet agreed earlier is wholly inadequate. It goes nowhere near meeting the desperate needs of the many workers and families who are really struggling to keep their heads above water. Once again, the Government's entire focus is on once-off measures. People need to know how they will pay their soaring bills not just this week or next week, but next month and in the months that follow. Ever increasing numbers of people throughout the country are now living in fear. They are living in fear of the next electricity bill, the next gas bill, the next trip to the supermarket. They know they cannot possibly manage. We know that 30% of parents are skipping meals in order that their children have enough to eat. Ireland is one of the richest countries in the world, but a great many parents are struggling just to provide food for their children.

Is that not shameful?

The Government's package is especially disappointing because of, as the Taoiseach knows - he has even highlighted this - the lifelong damage that is caused by child poverty. When the Taoiseach took up office, he promised to do everything in his power to tackle child poverty. He does not need a special unit in his Department to know that the best way to reduce child poverty is by targeting increased resources at the most vulnerable and disadvantaged children in our society. We know that more than 50% of those living in poverty are lone parents and their children and people with disabilities and their children, yet they have been almost completely ignored in the Government's package. The qualified child payment was increased by a measly €2 in the budget. That is €2 for the poorest children in our country out of a bonanza €11 billion budget package. The Government has doubled down in this regard and failed to provide any increase at all to this vital payment. It has also refused to introduce a weekly cost-of-disability payment that would recognise the huge additional costs of having a disability.

There are other things the Government could have done and that it should have done. Core social welfare rates have fallen way behind the surging cost-of-living increases across the economy. The Government has decided to leave these families who are reliant on these payments - pensioners, lone parents and carers - living below the poverty line. It has not even extended the fuel allowance to low-paid workers on the working family payment. In fact, it has done nothing to help families with soaring energy costs. When is the Government going to change its approach and provide sustainable supports to the poorest families who are most in need? How can it claim to be targeting child poverty when it has failed to increase a payment that only the most vulnerable children in our society receive? When is it going to do something about energy costs?

The Taoiseach

I do not accept the Deputy's characterisation of the package announced earlier. I will go into that matter in some more detail later on. I need to emphasise again, and as I said last week, this is not a budget. We only had a budget a few months ago. Some of the measures only started kicking in in the past few weeks. Some have yet to kick in. This is not a mini-budget either; it is a series of one-off measures to help families with children, pensioners, vulnerable people and small businesses.

The Deputy stated that our focus is almost entirely on one-off measures. That is patently untrue. Up to today we have announced 25 individual actions, many of which are permanent. The increase in pension payments of €12 per week only kicked in a few weeks ago. We also introduced an additional €12 per week in respect of welfare payments, and some additional targeted payments. We lowered income taxes and introduced the rent tax credit. We introduced cheaper childcare, with a 25% reduction in the cost of childcare for families. Healthcare costs are going down. Within a few months, free GP care will be extended to many more people. The Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, is working on that at the moment, with a particular emphasis on middle- to low-income families. The lowest income families have this already, but we want to go the next step and target the low- to middle-income families. Lower public transport costs have been introduced, and we are making the student grant available to more people. The Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, has done that. More students will be eligible for the student grant at a higher rate come September.

In terms of targeting the most vulnerable, I will give the Deputy the facts. There will be a €100 payment per child in June. That will be universal because all families need a little bit of help. For the poorest families, the extra €100 on the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance will be repeated this year. For those in receipt of the working family payment, namely, low-income working families, an extra €200 bonus will be paid in April. State exam fees have been waived. I mentioned what we have done on school transport as well. The provision of free schoolbooks in primary schools will kick in from September. A crucial development, and this is something that is very close to my heart, relates to what we are doing in respect of free hot school meals. The latter were introduced by the previous Government and their provision is being expanded under this Government. The Ministers for Education and Social Protection and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, worked very hard on this in order to ensure that it will be extended to all special schools and all DEIS primary schools. Think about it: in September, which is not too far away, every child in a DEIS school will get a hot meal each day.

Every child in primary school will get free schoolbooks. There will be only a modest charge for school transport. I do not think it is fair of the Deputy to say we are not interested in reducing child poverty. Just in the space of one year and a few months, measures such as that have been taken. They are not insignificant. The Deputy is being a bit mean-spirited by not acknowledging that.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

The reason the Taoiseach is announcing these measures today is because the Government did not do enough in the budget. Is that not the reality? This package is evidence of that. Instead of learning from its mistakes, the Government is repeating them. Can I quote the Children's Rights Alliance? It has said repeatedly that the increase to the qualified child payment is a crucial intervention to tackle child poverty.

At the time of the most recent budget, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul pointed out that, "Growing up in poverty is associated with the worst outcomes across all key aspects of a child's life." It also stated, "Government should have invested additional support to the poorest children through the Qualified Child Payment."

There has been an explosion in the number of calls to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul over the past year or so. Households with children accounted for 66% of those calls. What further proof does the Taoiseach need that there is an absolute requirement for the Government to make a specific intervention to improve the weekly incomes of poor families with children? Will the Taoiseach reconsider the decision to ignore these children who are living in the poorest families by increasing the qualified child payment?

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy. The qualified child payment is a weekly payment. Along with all other weekly payments, we increase it in the budget. We increased it in the budget only six or seven weeks ago.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

That was a €2 increase.

The Taoiseach

What we announced today was not a budget and we did not increase any weekly payments. What we decided to do instead was to target lump-sum payments, including an extra €100 on the back-to-school clothing and footwear allowance precisely for the children the Deputy mentioned-----

Deputy Róisín Shortall

The increase was only €2 per week.

The Taoiseach

-----a €200 additional payment for working family payment recipients, who are low-income working families; an additional €100 for all children, including those families; the introduction of hot school meals for every child in a DEIS primary school; school transport being made affordable; and the introduction of free schoolbooks. All of that is happening this year. Can the Deputy give an example of a government in the past five, ten, 15, 20 or 30 years that has done so much in such a short period of time? The next step is to extend free GP care to more children in low-income families. I challenge the Deputy to find me a government that------

Deputy Róisín Shortall

The increase was only €2 per week. Does the Taoiseach think that is adequate?

The Taoiseach

-----in the space of one year has done as much as that.

Deputy Michael Lowry

Ireland's national animal health strategy document of 2022 highlighted the role played by farm animal vets in safeguarding biosecurity, animal health and welfare. Veterinary practices across Tipperary and Ireland are experiencing enormous difficulties in recruiting and retaining vets for clinical practise. We have a crisis in the delivery of veterinary education and the retention of vets. The career dissatisfaction among practising vets shows that career expectations do not match the reality of veterinary practise.

We need to enhance the recruitment and education models for vets. There is obvious interest in the profession. UCD hosts the only veterinary college in Ireland. It is hopelessly short on placements. At present, only one in four registered vets are educated in UCD. Over 500 Irish students currently study veterinary in colleges across eastern Europe. Ireland urgently needs a second veterinary school specifically to address this recruitment and retention crisis. An inability to provide sufficient veterinary care into the future will negatively impact animal welfare and agribusiness. The agrifood sector is Ireland's oldest and largest indigenous exporting sector. In the mid-west region, the sector provides up to 14% of employment. Munster is effectively Ireland's animal food production heartland and the new veterinary school should be based in the University of Limerick.

International veterinary education is increasingly moving towards a hybrid model utilising practice clinical sites as well as the traditional on-campus teaching hospital. This model gives students a better balance of first opinion and specialist referral cases. The medical school at the University of Limerick, UL, has pioneered a similar model for general medical practitioners and the university has now proposed a similar model for veterinary education. UL has also established research programmes in human medicine, equine science, dairy processing, biomedical science and antimicrobial resistance, which would complement veterinary teaching and research.

The new veterinary school will need to work with veterinary practice networks and regional agricultural and equestrian educators. It will also need to work with specialist veterinary providers such as Fethard Equine Hospital in Tipperary. This is a world-class equine referral hospital and has the capability and willingness to host students on specialist rotations.

UL has always been an innovator in education and is uniquely positioned to address the issues in veterinary education with a different recruitment emphasis and an innovative model of delivery. Planning for national skill needs in the veterinary sector must be a priority and should be prioritised by this Government through the funding of a new world-class centre for veterinary education. Simply adding some additional places on the current programme at UCD would not address the problems in veterinary services. We need the new model of veterinary education that has been proposed and which can be delivered by the University of Limerick. I ask for Government support to establish this much-needed facility.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Lowry for raising this important issue. All of us in the House agree that we need to train more vets. Government is looking at different options as to how to do that. One option is to expand the existing veterinary school and another is to establish a new veterinary school in another part of the country. Many people want to study veterinary medicine but we do not have enough places for them. I would like to create more. That is not just important to give people the opportunity to become vets but will also be beneficial for our farming and agriculture sector, horse breeding and animal welfare. The Minister, Deputy Harris, is currently examining this matter, including an expansion of the existing provision and a significant increase. Work is currently subject to a detailed examination by the Higher Education Authority, HEA.

With regard to veterinary provision, a panel is being established to assess the applications that have been received. These applications will be reviewed by a panel comprising the Veterinary Council of Ireland and the chief veterinary officer. We do not place a quota on the number of places higher education institutions offer on veterinary medicine courses. The number of places provided each year is determined by the institutions themselves in line with their capacity, although they obviously must be funded to provide these places.

As part of this examination, the Higher Education Authority has expressed an interest in hearing from higher education institutions that are interested in providing more places in dentistry, pharmacy, medicine, nursing and veterinary medicine and that have the capability to expand existing courses or create new courses in the academic year 2024-2025 or 2025-2026. The second stage of this process has now commenced with the HEA's recent announcement of the appointment of an expert advisory panel to review the opportunities for new programmes. The panel consists of representatives from Departments and regulatory and professional bodies which have direct professional experience, academic expertise or both in the relevant disciplines or knowledge of the higher education system at senior level.

As regulator, the Veterinary Council of Ireland is the competent authority and has robust accreditation processes to ensure that all veterinary training in Ireland meets national and international standards. Any programmes deemed viable by the HEA will be subject to Veterinary Council of Ireland accreditation to validate and ensure high standards of veterinary medicine in Ireland. Such accreditation enables professional recognition in Ireland, which also affords access to registration in the UK, Europe and Australasia.

Deputy Michael Lowry

UCD is talking about expanding its course by eight to ten places, which is not sufficient. There is a very strong argument for developing a regional balance. UL is a creative and innovative university and is exceptionally progressive. It has made an application and people in the mid-west support it, as do I as a representative of the people of Tipperary. How many institutes of higher education have expressed an interest under the current process?

What is the decision-making process and what is the timescale for making such a decision? Since graduate entry programmes tend to have higher retention rates in education and other professions, would the Government consider funding graduate entry for veterinary education? Will the decision-making process take into consideration the requirement for an all-Ireland veterinary programme with graduates fully accredited by the Veterinary Council of Ireland and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons? This is obviously critical as Ireland is a single unit from a disease perspective on our shared island.

The Taoiseach

As I explained earlier there is a process under way trying to figure out how many additional places we will have in medicine, nursing, veterinary medicine and pharmacy as well as where they will be located. I do not know the exact number of universities that have made applications but I know a number of universities and technology universities have. It would be wrong for me to prejudice the outcome of that examination. Suffice it to say that there are a number of options open to us. It could be expanding the existing centres. It could be creating new ones. It could be a combination of both; that is certainly a possibility as well.

The process is being managed by the HEA and the applications are currently being reviewed. I do not know exactly who has applied and who has not. If I can find out and if I am allowed to tell the Deputy I will. I do not see why that would be a secret. The applications through the process have been managed by the HEA. The Minister has not seen the proposals and cannot comment on the content of the proposals. The HEA will consider the opportunities for new programme provision alongside current programme expansion and will present the final list of options to the Minister in the first quarter of this year - so sooner rather than later I think it is fair to say.

I will have to come back to the Deputy on the all-island programme issue.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I wish to bring to the Taoiseach's attention the crisis with the price of fertilisers and what is happening with farming in Ireland today. This is the second year that Irish farmers will have to pay unrealistic, exorbitant, over-the-top prices for fertilisers. In recent weeks Germany, other European countries and the UK are paying 40% less than our farmers for fertilisers. They pay €500 a tonne for urea while Irish farmers are paying €850 to €900. I thought when we went into the European Common Market in 1973 that all EU countries would have a level playing field especially with prices for goods and supplies. It has become very clear that we do not have enough competition in the fertiliser market.

This problem began in October and November 2021, months before the Ukraine war. Prices began to soar and after Christmas but still before the war, prices increased further. Some of the co-ops would not even quote farmers. Last March, Kerry farmers could not get fertiliser for almost two weeks as it was being held up by the distributors and co-ops so that they could increase the price further. It is absolutely ridiculous that many co-ops will not quote farmers today for the price per tonne for fertiliser. They will provide it to the farmers and send the bill later. It is very clear that the fertiliser distributors and suppliers are profiteering at the expense of our farmers. The profits of Yara, one of the fertiliser suppliers, increased by 60% between September and December last year. Mosaic, one of the leading producers, doubled its profits in the same period. The whole thing is rotten with farmers suffering and households crippled with increased food costs.

Before the increases, urea started out at €380 a tonne in 2021. Last year it was €1,000 a tonne and it is still €900 a tonne now.

The fertiliser companies blame the war and claim that the increased cost of gas is the reason for the increase in production costs. There has been a constant reduction in the price of natural gas – up to 85% - since last September. We should be seeing a major reduction in the cost of fertiliser.

It is becoming clear that we do not have proper competition in the fertiliser market, with Goulding, IFI, Grassland and Yara operating together. I am calling for a high-powered investigation at national and European levels into what is happening. What is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, for? Is it a charade? Is it being paid for nothing? It is not helping Irish farmers or Irish consumers in how it is letting this situation go unattended.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy very much for raising the important issue of fertiliser prices. I think we all know that the price of fertiliser has gone through the roof in the last year or so. As the Deputy mentioned, some of that is linked to the increase in the cost of oil and gas. There is also the situation in Ukraine and Russia, where much of the fertiliser comes from. I know that very high fertiliser prices have cancelled out a lot of the gains that farmers had got from strong prices for what they produced.

I am not aware of the details when it comes to the disparity in prices between Ireland and the UK. I will ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to examine that and see if it can be explained or what the reason is. I do not see why there should be a major disparity between the prices that farmers pay for fertilisers here versus in the UK or other parts of western Europe.

What may be of interest to the Deputy is that there was some positive news for farmers in the announcement made today regarding the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS. Farmers can and have applied for that to help them with the cost of oil and gas. Since that scheme did not have the drawdown we expected, we are changing it, which means that more businesses, including farmers, will be able to qualify, more businesses will get more money from the scheme, and it will be backdated to September. Thousands of euro could be coming into farmers' bank accounts in the next few weeks because of the changes made to that scheme, which I think will be welcome.

In recognition of the fact that a lot of businesses in rural Ireland do not use gas or do not have access to the gas network, there is going to be a scheme to help with the cost of kerosene and liquefied petroleum gas, LPG, for businesses in rural areas in particular that are not on the gas network, that use LPG and kerosene, and that did not benefit from the TBESS up until now.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I thank the Taoiseach for his reply, but he dealt with everything except what I asked him to address. Will he agree to hold a high-level investigation into what is happening? That is what I am asking him for. This issue is serious and is hurting farmers all over the country, including in Kerry of course and most importantly. It is also hurting consumers, though. The farmers are not Mother Teresas. If they have to pay an exorbitant cost for fertiliser, it will have to be added to the rest of their costs and the poor people who pay to put food on the table will suffer. Will the Government hold an investigation at a national level and a European level? The Government is back and forth to Europe every day and is doing this and that for it. Now is the Government's time to ask Europe to do something for Irish farmers. They cannot suffer these increased costs. Why is it that we are paying €850 or €900 per tonne for urea when Germany and other countries in the EU and across the water in the UK are only paying €500 per tonne? The Taoiseach has to suss them out and see what is happening.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Taoiseach suss them out?

The Taoiseach

I will. Like I said earlier, I will certainly look into the matter. I will speak to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine about it this week. There might be a good reason for it, but I do not understand why there would be a big disparity in what Irish farmers have to pay for fertiliser versus those in Germany and the UK. We will definitely have it examined. In terms of a CCPC investigation, it would be up to the CCPC to make that decision as to whether it wanted to investigate or not, but we will certainly have the matter examined. I take the Deputy's point. High fertiliser prices feed into higher food prices, which means higher costs for everyone. If we can bring down the cost of fertiliser, that will not only benefit farmers, but consumers in our towns and cities as well.

An Ceann Comhairle

Mother Teresa of Calcutta has been compared with many people, but I do not believe ever with Kerry farmers before today.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

She could be compared with worse.