Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 28 Feb 2023

Vol. 1034 No. 3

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Energy Prices

Darren O'Rourke

Ceist:

56. Deputy Darren O'Rourke asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications the measures being taken to ensure that energy companies reduce their prices for customers to reflect the significant reduction in wholesale energy costs; if he has met with the Commission for Regulation of Utilities in this regard; the date on which windfall taxes will be introduced; the amount they are expected to raise; if he will support an energy price cap; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9983/23]

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I am disappointed the senior Minister is not here. It is not the first time this has happened. I think he has ten advisers at this stage and he does not seem to be able to line up his diary. We can reschedule these questions. They are rescheduled regularly. I am disappointed that he is not here and that neither he nor his ten advisers gave us the courtesy of telling us he would not be here.

I wanted to ask the Minister the measures being taken to ensure that energy companies reduce their prices for customers to reflect the significant reduction in wholesale energy prices.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications (Deputy Ossian Smyth)

I believe that the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications is representing his country at a meeting of European energy ministers.

The war in Ukraine has resulted in an unprecedented rise in energy prices and is a major challenge for families and businesses throughout Ireland and across Europe. This very significant increase in costs for consumers has caused real hardship for many people. This is most pronounced over the winter months, when energy use is at its highest.

That is why the Government has taken sustained action over the past year, and as recently as last week, to support households and businesses to meet the cost-of-living challenges. Direct measures to reduce energy bills include the €800 in total of energy credits introduced between April 2022 and April 2023; reductions in VAT; and the temporary business energy support scheme. In addition, the Government has introduced a range of targeted supports for the most vulnerable households, once-off measures and enhancements to tax and social welfare protections.

Electricity and gas retail markets in Ireland operate within a European regulatory regime wherein electricity and gas markets are commercial, liberalised and competitive. The market is overseen by the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU. As part of its role, the CRU is monitoring the implementation of the strengthened consumer protection measures that were put in place for this winter. Earlier this week the CRU extended the moratorium on disconnections of electricity and gas for a further month until the end of March. As the Deputy will be aware, the CRU is independent and accountable to the Oireachtas.

Wholesale prices reached peak levels in August of last year, when wholesale gas prices were 706% higher than in January 2021, while electricity prices increased by 463% in the same period. Although they have since fallen back from their peak, wholesale gas prices remain more than double what they were in January 2021. Retail prices, based on an estimated annual bill, are 138% higher for gas and 98% higher for electricity this January versus January of last year. The differences in the level and speed of fluctuation in the wholesale market versus those of retail prices demonstrate the supplier hedging strategies and the extent to which those strategies shield consumers against the full extent of the utterly unprecedented international energy market volatility.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

That is an incredible response. People will endure and will get on with it but they hate this idea of "we are all in it together". The truth is that we are not all in it together. People hate a double standard and they hate inequity and unfairness. The price of energy is being hiked, but at the same time energy company profits are going through the roof. Energy companies are reporting record profits, and what do we hear from the Government? We have heard it from the Minister of State, as the latest spokesperson for the Government defending their position, explaining that, actually, they did not pass on the full price of the hikes. There is not a word about the record profits, the obscene profits, they are reporting. We have a Government that resists energy market reform, resists price gaps and resists windfall taxes. There has been a U-turn but there is still a delay in that regard. We have a PSO that is deeply regressive. The Minister of State's party, including the senior Minister, who is not here, has supported and introduced the large energy user subsidy. There is a track record there of treating the energy companies with kid gloves. Has the Minister of State met them? What have they got to say? When will reductions be introduced?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

My Department will bring before the Government proposals for a windfall tax to be approved by the Cabinet in the coming weeks. Primary legislation will be required to bring that through. The measure will impose taxes on unfair profits which were generated not just by people who own oil or gas reserves but anybody generating electricity from sources other than gas who unfairly profited from the very significant increase in the price of electricity. That could be wind farms or people generating electricity from solar or other sources. They will be taxed in such a way that a maximum price will be put on the amount for which they are able to sell their electricity to the grid. We were guided by the EU that that could be €180 per megawatt hour - in other words, 18 cent per unit. In fact, we will impose a cap of 12 cent per unit, and we are proposing a 75% take in excess profits from those who own oil or gas reserves. We will legislate for that in the coming weeks and all that money will be ring-fenced for electricity consumers.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I want to ask the Minister of State a straight question and I hope he will give me a straight answer. When will the windfall tax be legislated for, when will it be introduced, what period will it apply for and how much will it bring in? I noticed that initial estimates were in the region of €1.9 billion and the lower estimates are in the region of €200 million to €300 million, which is a significant difference.

I will ask another straight question. Has the Minister or the Minister of State met the energy companies? Have they met ESB, Bord Gáis, SSE Airtricity and Energia to discuss this and insist that they pass on the price reductions? The Minister of State said himself that prices peaked in August and they have been reducing ever since but we have seen no commensurate reduction in the cost to consumers. Has the Minister of State met the energy companies and has he insisted that they pass on the reduction and do it now?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I am as eager as the Deputy to see these reductions passed on and that is why we are legislating for unfair profits. I have met the ESB and Bord Gáis and my Department continues to meet them. I am sure the Minister does as well, although I have not spoken to him on it. We will be legislating for this in the coming weeks. The amount of money that is expected to be raised is between €280 million and €600 million, a significant amount of money, and all of that money is legally ring-fenced for electricity consumers. That is only part of it. We extended the 9% rate for electricity and gas VAT last week, which is the lowest rate of VAT we have ever had on energy in this country. We have a range of welfare benefits, extra payments and then the windfall tax on top of that. A number of approaches have been taken, therefore. I see that two electricity companies have cut their rates but I expect the others to follow suit as soon as possible.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Bríd Smith

Ceist:

57. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications if he can clarify the Government’s plan to deal with recent Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, figures that show increases in CO2 emissions in the State, and that Ireland is the worst performer in the EU, according to EUROSTAT data; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10335/23]

Deputy Bríd Smith

The Minister of State is probably aware of this but on Friday, 3 March, the climate movement will be back on the streets for the first time in a long time. I am delighted to see Extinction Rebellion and FridaysForFuture taking the climate crisis seriously and marching from Parnell Square at 12 noon to this House. I want to ask the Minister of State to please clarify for me and them the Government’s plans to deal with the recent figures from the EPA that show that Ireland has a very significant increase in CO2 emissions and is the worst performer in the EU in emission reductions, according to EUROSTAT?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I also am happy to see climate protestors on the street. The voices of young people are often lost and what we hear instead are the reactionary forces against any climate actions we try to bring in. To see people cheering and going out to prove they care is motivating.

Finalised emissions data for 2022 are not yet available but recent reports have indicated that Ireland’s greenhouse gas emissions increased in 2021 and may also have increased in 2022 as we emerged from Covid-19 restrictions. The EPA’s models for projected emissions do not take into account all policies and measures which have been committed to in our climate action plans, and these reports suggest a concerning trend, which underlines the urgency with which we must respond to the climate crisis. To reverse the current trajectory of emissions and meet our 2030 and 2050 targets, we have to accelerate the implementation of policies that will not only decarbonise our economy and improve our indigenous supply of sustainable and renewable energy but we also have to support new ways of conducting business and encouraging innovation.

The Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act 2021, significantly strengthens climate governance in Ireland and the sectoral emissions ceilings set out a clear pathway for meeting our carbon budgets, as well as Ireland’s commitment to a 51% reduction in emissions by 2030. These ceilings are reflected in the Climate Action Plan 2023, which was published on 21 December 2022. The 2023 plan builds on the 2021 plan and sets out the policies, measures and actions needed to keep us within our carbon budgets and on the pathway to a climate-neutral economy no later than 2050. I note the establishment of climate delivery task forces to accelerate and drive delivery in a number of key areas regarding our climate action including offshore renewable wind energy, heating and the built environment, and sustainable transport. These will serve to support our focus on accelerating the implementation of meaningful and impactful climate action.

Deputy Bríd Smith

Far from being on target to cut our greenhouse gas emissions by 51% by 2030, or by 5% per year, according to An Taisce, which is littered with eminent scientists on this issue, we are on track to exceed the combined ten-year carbon budget by between 23% and 36%. That is exceeding the budget and we are on track to do that. The climate movement will not be cheering the Green Party. Almost three years into its decision to prop up Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael in government, we are beginning to see clearly what a disaster that has been for the climate movement and crisis. Not only are emissions rising but the spin the Government is committed to will lock in and guarantee failures.

I want to talk briefly about that for electricity, which was mentioned earlier. Our demand for electricity has risen by 9% and uniquely in Europe, that is driven by the demand from data centres. We have 16 more data centres coming on stream that will be hooked up to the national grid. How can the Minister of State say we are taking climate action seriously when we are in these energy-intensive areas and using up our best energy?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

It takes all parties to solve this problem. This is not a partisan issue and it will not work if one party takes it one way. It does not work if parties condemn or denounce one another. It works if we can constructively work together. I am not long in politics but the Deputy knows that I am committed to climate action and that it is all I have thought about for most of the last 20 years. Therefore, it just bounces off me if I get accusations that I do not really care or want to do this. It is just not true and everybody who knows me or who has ever worked with me knows it is not true. Our parties and our Government are committed to climate action. We know what the different areas are that we have to work on to get there. It is not easy, it cannot be entirely done by Government and it requires the corporate sector to do its part. We have to regulate and tax the corporate sector and we have to push it into doing its part because it will not do it otherwise; it has no reason to. It also takes action from the public. It means we have to change our entire culture in order that we can carry out these things.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I did not want the Minister of State to take my criticism personally. They are political criticisms and they are criticisms of the Minister of State's party propping up a neoliberal and right-wing set of parties. Those parties are bound to fail on climate because they believe in the capitalist model of doing business and economics, as the Green Party apparently does because it voted against every measure that any progressive element of the Opposition has tried to bring in, including curbing the proliferation of data centres, to mention but one. It is not a personal criticism of the Minister of State; it is a criticism of the politics that are driving the climate agenda in this country.

That is why the young people on the streets on Friday will be demanding system change. That means changing our economic system and priorities, as well as our environmental priorities because if you do not change the economic priorities then you are going to see global banks continuing to fund fossil fuel corporations to the tune of $3.8 trillion to explore and extract more fossil fuels. The signs on the planet are very worrying. We are seeing natural systems in the process of falling apart and these are systems that have held the planet together. The Minister of State and I know this and we have been watching this but the Minister of State is in government and I am not so I have every right to criticise him for his failures.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

The Deputy has every right to criticise me and to ask questions. That is part of our system, I welcome that and I am not being defensive but we need to work constructively together to solve these problems.

Deputy Bríd Smith

Stop voting against our measures.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

What are we doing for climate action? We have four major areas: transport emissions; heating and building emissions; electricity emissions; and agriculture emissions. As the Deputy is aware, we are trying to revolutionise our transport system and we are trying to move people towards public transport. We are cutting public transport fares and we are spending €2 in public transport investment for every €1 we spend on new roads. The Deputy knows that we have significantly increased our investment in retrofitting and that the majority of our retrofitting spend goes on free upgrades for people who cannot afford it. The Deputy knows we are building more renewable energy infrastructure, including more solar and wind than was ever put on the grid, so that at some points we are generating 80% to 90% of our electricity from renewable sources. These are huge and significant changes and people notice it when they find that their bus fare is half of what it was before.

Energy Infrastructure

Darren O'Rourke

Ceist:

58. Deputy Darren O'Rourke asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications the measures he will take to maximise delivery of solar photovoltaic, PV, systems on homes, schools, farm sheds, and community/sporting, commercial and public buildings in 2023; his targets in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9984/23]

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I want to ask the Minister of State the measures he will take to maximise the delivery of solar PV systems on homes, schools, farm sheds and community, sporting, commercial and public buildings in 2023; his targets in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

The microgeneration support scheme sets out the overall framework to support the growth of microgeneration in Ireland. The scheme targets 380 MW of new microgeneration capacity by 2030.

This amounts to 60,000 homes and 9,000 non-domestic installations, such as small farms, businesses, schools and community groups, generating over 300 GWh of renewable electricity per annum, with the potential to abate 1.4 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent over the lifetime of the installations. The microgeneration support scheme provides support to domestic and non-domestic applicants for installations up to 50 kW. Domestic applicants can apply to the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, for a grant of up to €2,400. Non-domestic applicants can also apply for a grant for installations up to 6 kW for the same grant amounts as domestic customers, of up to €2,400. These applicants will also be eligible to avail of the clean export guarantee tariff and any renewable electricity not consumed on the premises of these microgenerators is now eligible for an export payment, which further supports the investment.

The final phase of the microgeneration support scheme will involve the introduction of a clean export premium feed-in tariff to support non-domestic applicants for installation sizes greater than 6 kW, up to 50 kW. The Commission for Regulation of Utilities will consult on an implementation plan for the clean export premium tariff in 2023. Since the introduction of the microgeneration support scheme domestic grant in February 2022, the SEAI has seen application levels rise sharply, with more than 16,000 received in 2022. This is more than double the application levels seen in 2021 under the previous pilot solar PV grant scheme. While the level of interest indicates that the scheme is working, its operation and effectiveness will be kept under review and adjustments made where necessary.

My Department is also developing the small-scale generation scheme for generators above 50 kW to support the deployment of rooftop and ground-mounted solar PV in cohorts that are not as suited to other support measures, such as the renewable electricity support scheme. This scheme is expected to be launched in 2023.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

A number of points arise. There is a significantly increased ambition regarding solar energy, with a goal of 5 GW by 2025, which was announced to great fanfare, but it will take much work to deliver on that. There is significant opportunity at a smaller scale, outside of utility scale, to realise that and to bring people along and have them play their part. There are a number of key elements. We should not be entirely dependent on utility scale and I am concerned that we will end up being dependent. There is a consultation about direct lines, but it has been postponed repeatedly. It was to be delivered in the first quarter of 2023. That has not happened. When will it happen? The Minister of State finished by mentioning small-scale generation policy. When will we see that?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

The small-scale generation scheme will be launched later this year. The Deputy asked about legislation relating to private wire, which is to allow transmission of electricity by private sector companies without using EirGrid. I will have to come back to the Deputy with details rather than offer an answer now. There is significantly increased ambition for solar roll-out. It is not just for solar farms and it will not be concentrated on a small number of large corporate generators. The aim is to get it onto every agricultural shed in the country. There is significant desire among the agriculture community, with many applications from farmers. This is greatly helped by the fact that we have removed the requirement for planning permission and allowed people to generate money from their excess electricity when they are not there. Every school in the country, every hospital and every public building, as far as possible, will be covered in solar panels. We want this to be a genuine democratic system whereby everybody, insofar as is possible, gets a solar panel on their roof.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

There are unnecessary barriers. It is not the Minister of State's responsibility but as I understand the targeted agriculture modernisation scheme, TAMS, 3 criteria, they are not getting paid for their excess electricity. They still cannot sell back to the grid or export. The community energy grant run by SEAI is available for businesses but there is a level of bureaucracy. We had the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment before the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action last week. It is clear that the system is not working to the degree that it should. There is need and clear cause for a technology-specific auction. A redesign of the auctions should be considered to align with the technology-specific ambition.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I want as many people to have solar power as possible so that they are taking part and have a sense that they are contributing towards climate action and generating money. I want as many people as possible to take part in this. The Deputy is right to say that the deployment of solar generation is not entirely my responsibility. TAMS is a scheme of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Putting a solar panel on the roof of every school is a Department of Education scheme. We cannot have a situation whereby everything to do with climate action is supposed to be done by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. Although I will help those Departments as much as possible, they are the ones to come back to. I understand that funding for TAMS has been greatly increased and that the scheme has been made much simpler as a result of the removal of the planning permission requirements.

The Deputy asked about technology-specific auctions. Our auctions are currently technology neutral. One can apply with any technology. I am not aware of an argument to switch to solar only or to technology-specific applications. The economic theory is that one gets the best answer by making it technology neutral. If the Deputy wants to make a proposal to me for technology-specific auctions, I will give it fair consideration.

Climate Change Policy

Peadar Tóibín

Ceist:

59. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications if his attention has been drawn to the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, report (details supplied) noting the need to reduce the national herd by 30% in order to meet climate targets; if his Department has undertaken a study to determine the impact that these proposals would have on the livelihoods of farmers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9816/23]

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

Agriculture across the country is in crisis. I do not make that statement lightly. Every year, farmers leave the land. The number of farmers is reducing throughout the Twenty-six Counties. According to Teagasc, only one third of farmers make a living out of the farm. Another third of farmers only make a living because somebody is working off the farm. A full third of farmers are currently making losses. They are in poverty or are going into debt. The threats that we will see a 30% reduction in the national herd are scaring the farming community.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I do not think anybody should scare the farming community. It is important to stick to the facts on this but also to speak honestly to farmers. The Government recently approved the first phase of the land-use review. This phase was a substantial evidence-gathering exercise, required to deliver on a key commitment in the programme for Government. A comprehensive evidence base is essential to informing Government decisions on the optimisation of our land use. Studies such as the draft EPA research report are part of this evidence-gathering process. The primary objective of the first phase was to identify gaps in our knowledge and to inform the second phase of the land-use review.

The second phase of the land-use review will build on the evidence gathered in the first phase and continue the gathering of relevant evidence to close knowledge gaps. This is critical for supporting the Government's wider economic, social and environmental objectives for land. These objectives include supporting the significant role that farmers and farm families play in the overall success of the economy and society as a whole, ensuring that we have resilient rural and urban communities, and meeting our wider environmental objectives. Proposals for the second phase are being finalised and will be put to the Government in a few weeks.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

That was probably the most nebulous, vague response that we have got to such an important question in this Chamber in a long time. It is incredible that the sector which produces food for this country and is the backbone of rural communities is facing a significant cut to its livelihood by this Government. The EPA report is clear in its focus and targeting of the agricultural sector to reduce climate-changing emissions. The difficulty, as I know from farmers, is that they know change is needed but they do not want to become the martyrs of the climate change crisis in Ireland, especially when one sees Ministers jetting around the world. They do not want to be bankrupted when we see an explosion of Brazilian beef exports annually. There is a real issue with the viability of the Irish farm. The only way to make it viable is to guarantee a different price. If one wants to build bridges with the farming community, the first thing one needs to do is tell farmers that they will be able to make a living in the future.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

The twin policy issues for agriculture are how we reduce emissions and sustain farming incomes at the same time. That is the challenge for our agricultural policy and where all our focus will be.

The Deputy is right to say, and I am glad to hear him say, that farmers know there has to be change but that change has to be fair and it has to be explained. We should not do it without having proper evidence. It is not nebulous to collect the right data. Agricultural emissions are much more complex than they are in other sectors. There are pluses and negatives. Obviously there are carbon storage possibilities. Farmers can do so much for the environment, either through wetting, generating electricity, or through forestry. Land use management will be absolutely critical to this. Carrying out the right scientific research is absolutely the right thing to do. The Environmental Protection Agency report was not a policy paper or a political paper but a scientific report. It did not prescribe what we should do; it just laid out its assessment of the evidence and the likely scenarios.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

The trust of farmers in this Government is very low and I will tell the Minister of State why it is low. We have a supply chain in agriculture at the moment that usually consists of a farmer, maybe a factory, and a supermarket. Agriculture is enormously profitable in this country but all of that profit lands in the last two elements of that supply chain. The factories and supermarkets are making supernormal profits from produce that farmers are making, and the farmers are typically making barely above the cost of production. The prices are regularly pushed below the cost of production in beef, sheep, poultry and pigs. This Government stands over that system. We had Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Ministers literally say that it is unreasonable for farmers to expect a price above the cost of production. How can the farmers put trust in them to make a living from farming in the future while that is happening and still see this train wreck coming down the line of the national herd being reduced? I am asking the Minister of State to take that off the table and to ensure farmers have proper funding and a proper income in the future.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

When the pandemic ended, I had many opportunities to go round the country and speak to farmers. I took every opportunity I could to do that. What I took from farmers is that the drive for increased production has pushed down unit prices. It is more work for the same amount of money. Pushing up production has not worked. Fertiliser prices are a killer in that they are so high and are linked to the price of fossil fuels. The price of feed has gone up as well. While farmers' input costs have gone up, their output price is not going up in the same way. They want something different and, as the Deputy said, farmers are open to change. We have a climate action plan which has specific actions in agriculture, including advanced animal efficiency through breeding, feeding and finishing; and changes to how we keep land fertile which will reduce nitrous oxide emissions from farms. We are trying to bring in a fivefold increase in organic farming to 450,000 ha. The Deputy knows we are one of the lowest countries in Europe for organic farming which does not really make any sense when one looks at the size of our country, our culture, or our disposition.

Climate Action Plan

Catherine Connolly

Ceist:

60. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications further to Parliamentary Question No. 119 of 15 December 2022, the status of the promised statutory guidelines for the implementation of local authority climate action plans, which will include the guidelines for the implementation of the local authority decarbonisation zones; the timeline for the publication of the statutory guidelines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9910/23]

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I have a very specific question and it relates to the long-promised statutory guidelines we are waiting for that will form the basis on which climate action plans will be prepared and implemented. Where are the statutory guidelines? Have they been published or are they about to be published? If not, what is the delay and when will they be published?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

I thank Deputy Connolly for her very specific question for which I have a very specific answer. I spoke to the civil servant who issued the guidelines last Friday. The Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Act 2021 strengthens the role of local authorities in climate action. The Act sets out a statutory requirement for each local authority to prepare a local authority climate action plan within 12 months from when the Minister formally issues a request to the sector to begin the preparation of such plans. These plans were circulated to local authorities on Friday and there will be a formal launch next month. The local climate action plans have to be consistent with the most recent approved national climate plan and will include both mitigation and adaptation measures. The Act requires that they must be updated every five years. Each plan includes a decarbonising zone which is selected by the local authority. A separate technical annex has been developed as part of the guidelines to assist local authorities with this. There are a number of sections which have all been distributed now. They are the local authority climate action plan guidelines; a technical annex on developing and implementing the local authority climate action plan; a climate change risk assessment annex; a climate mitigation assessment annex; and an annex on decarbonising zones.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

They have been completed and sent out to all of the 31 local authorities. Is that what I am to understand? There has been no fanfare at this point and nobody knows about it except the local authority management. Is that correct? However, everybody will know about it in a month's time. I welcome that they have finally been published because without them we cannot have a local climate action plan or an implementation plan. The Minister of State took exception to Deputy Bríd Smith's comment earlier. I identify with her, but not in any personal way. I do not think she meant it personally. The lack of urgency about climate action is startling. The guidelines that have now been issued have taken forever. On the decarbonisation zones the Minister of State referred to so proudly back in February 2021, two years ago to be precise, 29 of 31 local authorities have published their decarbonisation zones and nothing has happened since. Will the Minister of State comment on that?

Deputy Ossian Smyth

We can have all the strategies and plans in the world but they do not come to much if they are not implemented and if there is no political will. Those two ingredients are absolutely key to the difference between saying things and things actually happening. Do people want the things to happen and will they put in the work and the competence to make them happen? I have been on a local authority and I think the Deputy has probably spent time on a local authority too.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Too much time.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

She will know that there are sometimes many discussions on local authorities which are not matched by action and that sometimes plans are brought forward which speak in very high terms and in noble ways about things but do not really translate into actions because the executive or the councillors themselves do not really want them to happen. For these plans to translate into actual climate action, we will need to see some bravery on the part of the councillors and the executive and we will need to see a mind shift from some people who are really stuck in the past. I am not referring to any particular local authority but I have seen it broadly across them and I am hoping for some change.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I am normally constructively critical, and quite severely so, of the management in the city council in Galway but on this occasion, it did everything right. It submitted the decarbonisation zone plan two years ago and the Department has done nothing since then. I and other colleagues, I think, followed it up and we were told that it was waiting for the statutory guidelines. It has taken until last Friday to publish the statutory guidelines, so let us apportion blame justly and fairly and where it is due. Let us praise the councils, the 29 of 31, that submitted their decarbonisation zones. Is the Minister of State in a position to clarify whether 31 local authorities have now done it? Can he tell me why it has taken the Department so long? There is another question after this one and I might get a chance to elaborate on the tardiness of each Government to date and the Supreme Court judgment that forced the hand of the Government but at this point let us be fair and just. The decarbonisation plan has been sitting in the Department for two years.

Deputy Ossian Smyth

We absolutely should be fair to local authorities. I do not have information for Deputy Connolly on the timeline that led to the issuing of the guidelines from last Friday; what the statutory timeline was; and what it ought to have been but I am willing to talk to the Deputy about it afterwards, if she wants to find out more information. What I am referring to with regard to local authorities is the problem where there is much discussion and talk about sustainable transport, for example, but when I go out to the local authorities all they want to talk to me about are new roads. When we allocate money for retrofitting, sometimes the local authorities do not spend the money that has been allocated to them. There is a great imbalance in the amounts of money drawn down from sustainable funds for different climate action areas between different local authorities, which would make one wonder why some local authorities do not spend the money even when they are given it. I guess that is the challenge for all local authorities and perhaps the best way to do this is to highlight and champion the local authorities that are doing well.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Out of 31 local authorities 29 submitted decarbonisation plans. I have asked a very specific question. How have those plans just sat there? Have the other two local authorities, which did not submit plans, done so now? Equally significantly, has the Department now issued directions that they have until 7 March to direct the local authorities to make-----

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Marian Harkin)

I think Deputy Connolly has taken a third slot. Are we on another question?

Deputy Catherine Connolly

No, I did not.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Marian Harkin)

Are we on the first oral question?

Deputy Catherine Connolly

We are not. I beg your pardon. I was in my second minute of the priority question.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Marian Harkin)

I think we have taken that. Deputy Connolly is up next for the next oral question.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

That is okay.