There is no Minister here yet to deal with the first issue. With the House's permission we will proceed to Deputy Bríd Smith. The matter will be taken by the Minister of State, Deputy Fleming. Deputy Smith has four minutes, followed by the Minister of State for four minutes, followed by a further two minutes each.
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
School Meals Programme
Okay. Is there no way I could have two minutes and add the other two on at the end or anything like that?
No. I am bound by the rules of the House.
Chairpersons are awful. They never allow me to break the rules.
The main reason I wanted to raise this is because in my area we had new schools added to the DEIS list. That was very welcome because, until lately, on one side of the Long Mile Road was the Assumption school in Walkinstown, one section of which did not have DEIS status, and across the road was Drimnagh Castle, where boys go to school, and which had DEIS status. Kids from one family, street or area were treated differently even though their socioeconomic status was the same. This has been a huge anomaly that I believe the Department has been trying to address. We need an updated report on that because we are getting mixed messages from some parts of the country as to whether it is working or not.
My main point is on the question of hot meals. Last year it seems it was announced that hot meals would be extended to over 300 DEIS schools and a total of €94 million or whatever would be spent on them. The Minister of State can go through the figures. I am sure he is prepared for them. When many of the schools went to access the hot meals system, they were told it was not there. It seems the budget fell well short of what it should have been. As one of the principals said, somebody forgot to mention it in the budget. I think that has been sorted out since but I would like a comprehensive answer on whether or not it has been sorted out.
Will the Minister of State comment on the system of reporting and accounting that schools must engage in to the Department of Social Protection and, potentially, the Department of Education? I understand from some schools this is quite cumbersome and difficult for them, particularly when they are not resourced with staff to deal with that. We all know from the series of disputes and day strikes school secretaries had that they are overburdened, underpaid and undervalued. To ask them to take on that extra work, particularly if it is a cumbersome and difficult accounting system, would not be fair. Schools should be resourced to have somebody to deal with meals, accounting for them and accounting to the Department.
My other question is something that is not out of the hands of the Department and we should be keeping an eye on it. I would like to know what the Minister of State will do to address it. It concerns food inflation, which is above all other types of inflation, apart from energy. Food inflation is 9% or 10%. I think in some quarters of last year it went above that to 11% and 12%. That has put a huge burden on households but clearly is also a factor in the provision of hot school meals. It is a paltry sum that is allowed for each child in each school but some schools have managed to deal with local companies who have given them school meals for the allowed sum. I am not sticking up for the companies but for the provision of hot food for the children. We need to look at that rate because of food inflation.
As I always argue, workers, pensioners and people on social protection need a pay rise that matches inflation. Equally, we need an increase in the allowance for hot school meals that matches inflation, which is still running at 9% to 10% in the case of food inflation. That is not to say companies are not making profit out of it but there needs to be a matching of the funding. I know at least one major company in Dublin that is struggling to continue to provide hot meals at the current rate.
I am taking this matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys. I thank the Deputy for raising this issue.
The school meals programme funds the provision of food to some 1,600 schools and organisations, benefitting 260,000 children. The objective of the programme is to provide regular, nutritious food to children to enable them to take full advantage of the education provided to them. The programme is an important component of policies to encourage school attendance and extra educational achievement. At budget time, the Government provided €94.4 million for the school meals programme for 2023.
In recent years, entry to the school meals scheme has been confined to DEIS schools, in addition to schools identified as having a level of concentrated disadvantage that would benefit from access to the programme. Prior to the introduction of DEIS, all schools and organisations that were part of a number of Department of Education initiatives for disadvantaged schools were eligible to participate in the various programmes. These initiatives included Breaking the Cycle, giving children an even break, the disadvantaged area scheme, home school community liaison and the school completion programme. These schools and organisations have continued to remain in the scheme since the introduction of DEIS in 2005 but their level of funding has been capped at the same rate year on year to allow for the concentration of the programme on DEIS schools. There were a variety of schemes but DEIS is the principal programme in place now, notwithstanding some are still in the system from prior to DEIS's introduction.
The Minister is committed to continuing to grow the school meals programme and, in particular, the hot school meals element, building further on the significant extensions announced in the last few budgets. In March 2022, the Minister for Education announced an extension of DEIS status to an additional 320 schools from September 2022. In July, the Minister for Social Protection announced that access to the hot school meals option would be extended to 282 newly designated DEIS primary schools and that the cold lunch would be extended to the 38 newly designated DEIS secondary schools. This extension applied from September, benefitting some 60,000 children. This allowed all pupils in new DEIS schools to avail of one a substantial meal for the additional budget provided.
Last week, the Government approved an additional €14.5 million to allow access to the hot school meals programme for all remaining DEIS primary schools from September 2023, benefiting 64,500 children. These schools currently have access to cold lunches funding. In addition, the Government has approved the commencement of the roll-out of the hot school meals programme to non-DEIS primary schools. There are no secondary school children in receipt of the programme as it is aimed at primary schools with no on-site cooking facilities.
In 2022, the Minister for Social Protection commissioned the evaluation of the school meals programme to review all elements thereof. The final report was recently received and is being reviewed. This report will help to inform future decisions around this important programme.
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I concur with what she said about the issues of inclusion of various schools in DEIS, with other schools not being included. We have the exact same situation in many areas. I know of areas where the same families are going to the same school. A school on one side of the road is in the DEIS area and a school on the other side of the road, is not. The area is continually being reviewed.
I thank the Minister of State for the written report, because it is good to have all those facts in writing. What I wish to ascertain concerns the problem that arose last year, having had the announcement from the Government that all DEIS schools would have access to the meals programme of hot meals for national schools and cold food for secondary schools, with regard to schools throughout the country. The deputy head of the Irish Primary Principals' Network, IPPN, Ms Tobin, has stated she must tell parents it is not the case that this scheme has been expanded to their school. Ms Tobin has stated she is sure other schools that joined DEIS have had meals from day one and she is really disappointed. She expressed the hope that someone in the Government will address this as we cannot have children going without lunches and she thinks parents will be raging. Has that legacy issue been dealt with? Is there now no problem with schools being able to access the scheme if they try?
Having received the Minister of State's report, I will raise the question of the lack of availability or funding of hot meals for secondary schools. This is wrong. It will not, in the long term, save the State any money, because many teenagers leave school at lunchtime to buy chips or chicken roll sandwiches, which are not good for their health, cause obesity and are very expensive for parents. We are living in a cost-of-living crisis and I do not need to tell the Minister of State or anybody else in this House, how that cost-of-living crisis really hurts parents trying to afford food for children. If a parent is forking out for a chicken roll or chips every lunchtime for his or her secondary school, adolescent, growing or going-through-puberty child, the parent is paying €38 to €40 per week, on top of all the other expenses. It is really not on and the Department should be seeing the responsibility of the provision of hot meals for all children, including secondary school children, as a priority.
I understand the point the Deputy makes and the level of interest for the school meals programme is a clear sign of the need for its expansion. It is something the Minister for Social Protection is prioritising. The issues being highlighted today are being prioritised by the Minister. As part of the measures announced by the Government last week, access to the hot school meals is being extended to the remaining 372 DEIS primary schools and all special schools from September. I stress that. There are not as many special schools throughout the country but those are children who have most severe and profound difficulties and, up to now, all schools were not included. A key priority is that this will happen and be in place this September, in addition to the DEIS schools.
It will result in the number of schools that have access to the hot meals scheme increasing from 37 to more than 900, during the term of this Government. The Minister for Social Protection will also bring forward a proposal for the roll-out of the hot school meals programme to non-DEIS primary schools and significant additional funding has been provided for the programme. The total budget following this extension of the programme now stands at €108.9 million for 2022. This represents a 76% increase in funding only since 2020. In this regard, the evaluation of the school meals programme that the Minister commissioned last year will inform future policy decisions of the school programme. The final report was received recently and is currently being reviewed. Consequently, I am not in a position to give any further details.
However, it will be published - that is very important - in the coming weeks and it will finally acknowledge the issue the Deputy mentioned with the system of accounting for the schools meals system. That is, of course, an extra burden and perhaps there can be more liaison with the contractors who regularly provide these directly to the school in a way. Perhaps they can work closer together to simplify the system. However, I understand there is an additional burden from an administrative point of view. The issue of food inflation is obviously something that will have to be taken account of in the budget, coming up next September or October, for the next school year.
Hospital Services
I will use this chance to raise the situation of the urgent care centre, that is, the walk-in service at Connolly Hospital and its transition to an appointment-only facility. I know that many parents in Dublin West and the wider community were delighted to hear we had got an urgent care centre in Blanchardstown and a place to which they could drop their child, if the child was ill. There was a huge campaign to try to get the children's hospital into Blanchardstown. This was something to which people looked forward. To be honest, people have been absolutely shocked and dismayed at the ending of the walk-in service. One parent contacted me to ask what an urgent care centre meant to Children's Health Ireland, CHI. What is the definition of an urgent care centre, if it was not the ability to walk in and at least see a triage nurse? No one is expecting to be seen there and then but they are deeply worried about the way it is going, because every parent who contacted me said it was getting next to impossible to get a GP appointment in Dublin West. It is also next to impossible to get an appointment with the other option, D-Doc.
People had the security and knowledge they could drop down to the urgent care centre in Connolly Hospital but, unfortunately, that walk-in service is gone and people have to go online. They have to log in, go through a series of questions which is sort of a self-triage of the child, to determine whether they will get an appointment or if their case will be diverted to Temple Street. We all know that Covid exposed the significant digital divide. Accenture produced a report recently, which said that 39% of people in the lower socioeconomic groups use computers on a daily basis, compared to 61% of those in higher socioeconomic groups.
There is already a wide gap in the provision of healthcare and this will most definitely only contribute to it. There is also a very likely possibility that it will put more pressure on other hospitals, such as Temple Street, which is not too far away from Connolly Hospital, depending on the time. Traffic would determine the length of time one would get in there. It also has the potential to put considerable pressure on to the ambulance service. This needs to be changed. Unfortunately, people were quite dismayed with the Taoiseach. I raised this during questions to the Taoiseach the other day. The answer was that we should see how it works and if it works, it works and if it does not, it does not. That is not the way we need to be looking at children's services in Connolly Hospital.
This serves a population of well over 350,000 people. It is not just Dublin 15 or Dublin 7. People over in Finglas and in Meath, Louth and Kildare all use the Connolly campus for whatever service they are looking for. A considerable number of people use the campus.
Tallaght children's hospital has a 24-7 emergency department. Not alone have we gone from an urgent care centre - my definition of an urgent care centre was that one goes in there and is treated as urgent - it seems the centre covers much less than people would have assumed and now, because it has gone to appointment only, people will go straight to Temple Street. That will put pressure on Temple Street. It needs to be addressed. I am interested in the Minister of State's reply.
I thank Deputy Donnelly for raising this issue and apologise for being a couple of seconds late. I was watching the screen, waiting for the round-up and the next minute, I had to dart across. I am taking this on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly. CHI at Connolly, which opened in July 2019, is a children's outpatient and urgent care centre staffed by specialist paediatric teams, including nurses, doctors, health and social care professionals and support staff. Urgent care is for the diagnosis and treatment of injuries or illnesses requiring medical review, which are not serious enough to require emergency department attendance or inpatient admission.
In March 2022, CHI expanded the service provision at the urgent care centre by it extending to a full seven-day working model. CHI at Connolly offers children, young people and their families living in Dublin, Kildare, and Meath convenient and quality urgent care close to home.
The change in service occurred because the demand for services in CHI at Connolly urgent care centre has steadily increased since it opened. CHI has advised that the urgent care centre is currently seeing daily attendances far beyond the planned level of service activity. This demand is putting significant pressure on the system, resulting in long waiting times and impacting on patient experience, which is difficult for both families and staff. To address these issues, a three-month pilot of an appointments-only approach was proposed by senior paediatric emergency medicine clinicians and the clinical operations group at CHI. CHI has advised that this approach upholds the original principles of urgent care and intended service activity, while addressing the current demand issue to ensure the quality and safety of service delivery. The change from a walk-in service to a same-day appointment service took effect from 22 February, just over ten days ago.
A digital swift-queue process on the CHI at Connolly website allows families to book an appointment at short notice. The Deputy raised the matter of logging in. There is a digital swift-queue process and options for those who do not have online access. CHI has prepared for a transitional period of three to four weeks during which patients will still attend without an appointment and will be shown how to schedule any further visits. This approach will improve patient experience by reducing on-site waiting times for families. It will also redirect attendances that are more clinically suited to primary care or an emergency department. CHI is monitoring the impact of this change across the CHI sites during the three-month pilot period.
I reiterate that the appointment approach at the urgent care centre at Connolly seeks to address the long waiting times caused by the significant increase in demand, and to support families in attending the most appropriate level of care for their clinical needs. This is in line with the Government's steadfast commitment to ensure children and their families receive the right care in the right place at the right time, in line with Sláintecare. CHI is trying to manage the situation as best it can. It has decided on a pilot process for three months after which it will re-evaluate it. For the first three to four weeks, patients who present without an appointment will still be looked after. A hands-on approach is being taken to see how this will work. We all look forward to seeing the evaluation at the end of the three months.
While there is obviously demand for services, that is not the reason this decision has been made. When there is demand, that demand needs to be met. One does not change a service to suit the fact that demand cannot be met. That issue has not been addressed. I appreciate CHI will continue the current approach for four weeks but parents will continue to bypass Connolly Hospital and go to Temple Street. I asked what is the upper limit on the number of appointments that can be taken given that there is already massive demand for this service and I am still waiting for an answer.
I appreciate CHI will meet Deputy Cullinane and me next week. We are raising these serious questions, not just about the walk-in service but also about the future of children's services in Dublin. Connolly Hospital is approaching this in the wrong way. If there is demand for services and it cannot be met, it needs to figure out what resources are required to meet the needs of the young children coming to our centre. We must also look at the reason people are going to Connolly and why that demand is there. The reason is that people cannot get a GP appointment or a D-Doc appointment. Their only option is to go to the urgent care centre at Connolly. That service is now going to be appointment only. The fear of parents is that if they cannot get a GP or D-Doc appointment, the time may come when they cannot get an appointment at Connolly. That is the fear people have. Incrementally, over recent years, it has become virtually impossible to get a GP appointment in Dublin 15. This is the consequence of that.
I thank the Deputy for his contribution and the sentiments he expressed. In 2022, nearly 24,000 children presented at the urgent care centre, 91% of whom were discharged after their visit. As the Deputy knows, the urgent care centre at Connolly Hospital has a significant number of short-stay observation beds, in addition to the contemporary use of ICT to support ambulatory and urgent care and avoid unnecessary admissions.
Since March 2022, the demand for the urgent care centre at Connolly has grown beyond the planned level of service activity. This has resulted in long waiting times and has impacted on patient experience. Following clinical advice, CHI at Connolly is piloting a same-day appointment service over a three-month period. As I said, a digital swift-queue process on the CHI at Connolly website allows families to book an appointment at short notice. This may work. We need to give it a chance to work because the current situation is not favourable for the clinicians or the children and their families. As we all know, there is nothing worse than a young child who is sick having to wait for hours. At least parents will be able to book an appointment and then stay at home until they are ready. This appointment approach will result in less on-site waiting times for families, thereby supporting a better patient experience.
The appointment service will also redirect families, as appropriate, to the level of care most suitable to the patient's clinical needs, which could be a GP or an emergency department. I take on board the Deputy's point that in some cases it is difficult to find a GP and this is the reason families end up attending this service.
A pilot scheme will run for three months and there will be flexibility during the first month. I welcome the fact the Deputy will meet with CHI Ireland this week. We look forward to hearing the results of the audit.
We will see how it goes in three months.
I thank the Deputy for raising the matter and the Minister of State for being here to deal with it.
School Accommodation
I have raised issues affecting the primary school in Carrick-on-Shannon many times. The school campus was originally built in 1952. It was extended in 1983 and amalgamated in 2013. Scoil Mhuire in Carrick-on-Shannon is no longer fit for purpose. A technical report by the Department of Education has painted a damning picture of the school principal, staff and pupils having to cope in packed undersized classrooms with major defects and identified issues that need immediate attention.
Since the amalgamation with the boy’s national school in 2013 under one management, Scoil Mhuire has struggled to cope across two campuses and its pupil enrolment has doubled. As both campuses are located along major traffic thoroughfares, there is complete chaos at opening and closing times. What is required is a new school on a new site away from the hub of the town centre. I acknowledge the campaign by the board of management and the parents committee for a new school but, unfortunately, there is little or no progress to report on that ambition.
I urge the Minister of State to examine the details of the technical report by the Department of Education that bears out the justification for a campaign for a new school on a new site. The Department conducted a technical report on both existing sites and concluded that it would not be possible to provide an 18- or 24-classroom primary school on the existing site. Both sites were considered too small to cater for the entire school. Defects that need urgent attention were identified, some of which have been addressed under emergency works. Additional prefabs have been supplied and more are on the way to cater for increased enrolment. The report highlighted the principal’s concern about the size of existing teaching spaces in the building when compared with the Department standard room layouts and sizes of classrooms, offices and supporting teaching spaces, SET, rooms. The classrooms in question are 41 sq. m, approximately half the size of the standard 80 sq. m classroom.
Existing storage and corridor spaces have had to be converted into special education teaching rooms to cater for classes using one or two special education teachers, SETs, resulting in inner rooms having to be accessed through existing rooms. A number of other defects were identified, including in respect of ventilation, visible settlement cracks and cracking along the corridors, lack of airflow, water ingress under the floor and no staff or visitor parking evident at one site. The provision of prefabs as additional spaces, while welcome, continues to reduce already limited play and outdoor areas.
The report did not address the public road areas and congestion at arrival and departure times, traffic and other risks in those areas. The report did result in emergency works being completed, including a new roof on part of one site to address the evidence of roof leaks throughout the original 1952 and 1983 extensions.
We need a new school. The parents, teachers and students need a new school. Now is the time to deliver a new school for the people of Carrick-on-Shannon.
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and apologise for the absence of my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Foley. The Deputy's question gives me the opportunity to outline to the House the position of the Department with regard to the primary school situation in Carrick-on-Shannon, in particular the existing St. Mary’s Primary School, about which the Deputy spoke so eloquently.
In order to plan for school provision and analyse the relevant demographic data, the Department divides the country into 314 school planning areas and uses a geographical information system, using data from a range of sources, including child benefit and school enrolment data, to identify where the pressure for school places across the country will arise and where additional school accommodation is needed at primary and post-primary levels. Current and planned residential development activity, as well as Project Ireland 2040 population and housing targets, additionally inform the Department's forecasts of school place needs. Where data indicate that additional provision is required at primary or post-primary level, the delivery of such additional provision is dependent on the particular circumstances of each case and may be provided through either one, or a combination of, using existing unused capacity within a school or schools, extending the capacity of a school or schools and the provision of a new school or schools.
The Deputy will appreciate that our Department has a strong track record of the delivery of school building projects and this was maintained in 2022 notwithstanding the wider construction sector environment of high inflation, labour shortages and supply chain issues. Approximately 180 school building projects were delivered last year and a further 273 school building projects remained under construction at the start of 2023, most of which will be completed this year. I am appreciative of the strong support provided by Government for our education budget. As part of the supplementary budget, €300 million in additional capital funding was provided in 2022. This helped to alleviate capital funding pressures that arose in 2022 and was reflective of the strong delivery by the Department of school building projects, particularly to support mainstream provision and special education needs provision. The Department's overall capital outturn for 2022 was €1.12 billion.
Our Department's planning and building unit is currently assessing its work programme and priorities for 2023 in the context of its available funding. My Department's published national development plan allocation for 2023 is €860 million. High construction inflation remains a continuing feature of the construction sector for 2023. As part of its planning ahead for 2023, the Department is engaging with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform in respect of capital funding pressures in order to continue to be able to adequately support the operation of the school system with a roll-out of school building projects to construction in 2023.
Key priorities for the work programme include continuing strong delivery to support the operation of the school system with particular regard to planning ahead for the 2023-24 school year and beyond, and also with particular regard to supporting special needs provision. The school to which the Deputy refers is among the many school accommodation needs across the country being considered as part of this process and in that context, modular accommodation to facilitate two classrooms has been sanctioned for the school. I understand, however, the point the Deputy is making about the desire for a new building in St. Mary's Primary School in Carrick-on-Shannon. My Department’s overall approach is to ensure that available capacity is maximised to the greatest extent possible as part of its consideration of applications for additional accommodation. In addition, our Department is working to ensure that projects in the pipeline for planning and delivery are focused on maximising their alignment with overall capacity requirements.
The Department has been considering the long-term accommodation needs of the school and reviewing the demographics for Carrick-on-Shannon. This consideration also includes a technical report, to which the Deputy referred, on the condition of the St. Mary’s Primary School building, which followed a visit to the school by Department’s personnel. A determination in respect of the best way forward will be taken as soon as possible in the context of capital funding. The Department will be in touch with the school patron in due course regarding the future of St. Mary’s Primary School.
I thank the Minister of State. The board of management at the school have over the years since amalgamation fought hard to have facilities improved and with the Department co-operation through emergency works, summer work and occasional exceptional funding, ensured the best possible facilities for the pupils and staff. The board of management fully recognises that those facilities and working conditions are well below what should be available to the parents and above all to the staff and pupils who daily provide and benefit from the best possible education with the resources available. The school continues to respond to community needs and other needs as they arise. Indeed, where numbers allowed in one or two classes, additional Ukrainian students have been enrolled. I know the local authority and community will respond positively to assist in identifying a site if required. The local authority is now developing and updating the Carrick-on-Shannon town development plan.
It is good to know that the Department has been considering the long-term needs of the school. We need to review the demographics on the Carrick-on-Shannon school planning area. The technical report on the condition of the school, which followed a visit to the school by the Department's professional and technical personnel, was welcome. We need a determination, as the Minister of State said, as to the best way forward. We all need to work together on this issue. Parents, teachers, management, the local authority and the community will respond with the Department to try to identify a suitable site and will work together for a new school. I am heartened that the Department will be in further contact with the school patron in due course. We all need to work together to get a reasonable and positive solution to this ongoing problem.
I again thank the Deputy for his comments. The Department is currently considering the long-term capacity requirements in Carrick-on-Shannon, taking into account existing demographic requirements as well as current and future residential developments in the area. It is important that school building projects take appropriate account of the longer-term needs of an area, as well as ensuring that the immediate school place requirements can be facilitated. Officials will continue to engage with the relevant patrons in this regard. The consideration of the accommodation requirements for St. Mary’s Primary School forms part of the planning and building unit’s overall assessment of its work programme and priorities for 2023.
The provision of required school places, including for children with special educational needs, is a priority for the Department and my officials are working to ensure there is sufficient provision in St. Mary’s Primary School for future years. According to projections I have, enrolment in Carrick-on-Shannon will be relatively stable. However, I note that St. Mary's Primary School has seen an 8% increase in enrolment over the past five years. For 2022, the enrolment was 495 and I expect that number to grow in the future. I thank the Deputy for his advocacy. There is no doubt but that the building officials in the Department are listening to the school and the Deputy and the representations they are making.
Gorse Burning
The final Topical Issue matter comes from Deputy Ó Cathasaigh, who wishes to discuss upland burning and land management practice, which are very topical issues. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, for being here to deal with the matter.
As the Ceann Comhairle said, these are topical issues. Last week, as we were approaching the cut-off period for the moratorium on controlled burning, which was 1 March, uplands across the country were ablaze. Quite a lot of it was in Kerry, in places such as the Killarney National Park, near the Mangerton area, the Dingle Peninsula, the western side of the MacGillicuddy's Reeks and Strickeen Mountain in the Gap of Dunloe. Crossing into west Cork, Mount Gabriel on the Mizen Peninsula was also affected. There were fires in the north of the Minister of State's constituency on the Blackstairs Mountains.
There were also some small fires on the Comeragh Mountains in my constituency. When I saw the pictures on social media earlier this week, I was in put in mind of something I recall very clearly from 1 September last year, just as we came out of the moratorium period. I was going to west Cork as part of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands visit to Bere Island. On 1 September, I could see the burn set in a line across the brow of the Comeragh Mountains. I came back two days later and the mountains were blackened.
I want to be very careful about language. We are talking about the season where controlled burning is allowed. What I observed last September on the Comeragh Mountains and what has been observed across west Cork and Kerry and on the Blackstairs Mountains can in no way, shape or form be described as controlled burning. I also want to be careful because there are Members who would like to put words in my mouth and say that I am vilifying or demonising certain communities; I absolutely am not. In fact, I visited the Comeragh Mountains recently and met with the people of the Comeragh Uplands and Communities EIP Project, including Mr. Willie Drohan and other members of the sheep farming community on the far side of the mountain from the Mahon Falls. They are equally as incensed about uncontrolled burning as I am because it reflects badly on them, their practices and how they manage their landscape.
As we all know, it also has a significant impact on our biodiversity. These are important breeding grounds for the likes of the red grouse, hen harrier, skylark and curlew. These are all amber- or red-listed birds. We find ourselves in a biodiversity crisis, yet we have this level of burning still happening on our mountainsides.
Controlled burning is legal and many responsible landowners engage in the practice. What we saw last weekend was not controlled. Have there been prosecutions for this kind of uncontrolled burning, which happens within season? The Minister of State has done great work on reforming the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS. How do we stand as regards the resource within the NPWS to police this kind of burning?
We also need to talk about funding for farmers because the fact of the matter is that this model is not working for sheep farmers either. It is the first thing they will tell you. They cannot make money on the wool. They make very little money on the sheep themselves and are forced into a system where they have to try to manage and control the landscape. What is the funding model doing? What is it pushing our farmers towards? Crucially, what is our long-term vision? When we look at these mountains and imagine how we want them to perform in terms of biodiversity, carbon sequestration and water management, what do those mountainsides look like? Is that vision being communicated to the people who know those mountainsides best and who, if properly funded and supported, would be best placed to make the changes in land use and management that are needed?
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as an gceist tábhachtach seo. The management of Ireland's upland areas is a responsibility shared by many, including land users, landowners and various bodies and agencies tasked with its management. As Minister of State, my focus in this regard is on the protection of nature. Sustainable grazing is an important nature conservation measure. My Department's NPWS farm plan scheme and the EU LIFE Wild Atlantic Nature project are examples of how locally targeted and adapted agri-environmental measures can be highly effective when implemented in areas of high environmental priority across the country, including upland Natura 2000 sites, and are highly valued by the people who take part in them.
I unreservedly condemn the recent spate of fires. I thank all of the fire and emergency service personnel who risked life and limb to tackle these fires and bring them under control. They have caused significant environmental damage in upland areas. As the Deputy correctly said, some refer to this as planned or controlled burning. This is a misnomer. If it gets out of hand, which it invariably does, it is uncontrolled burning. In fact, it is worse; it is indiscriminate burning and causes criminal damage to nature, water, property and people's health. I have examined the red grouse project in Scotland and know that there are instances in which controlled burning can be effective. It is important to note that it can be an effective tool. However, I have also received correspondence this week from residents living in the parts of Kerry the Deputy referenced who have had to remain in their houses with their children while those fires were burning. It is grossly irresponsible. It is critically important that every member of society realises the damage that can be caused to property and the health and welfare of families, neighbours, the wider community and the responding emergency services.
The main source of these fires is the deliberate starting of fires without concern for the consequences. The NPWS works closely with the fire service, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and An Garda Síochána, as appropriate, to investigate the causes of fires in our national parks and reserves, protected sites and the wider countryside. This week, the service has deployed increased fire patrols across sites. This has included aerial monitoring, with eyes in the sky over recent days. Where appropriate, cross-compliance is pursued with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. My staff are committed to finding solutions to the problem of these fires. I call on all stakeholders, including local communities, to work with us to find a way forward. Where evidence is forthcoming, appropriate enforcement under the Wildlife Acts or other legislation will be pursued.
However, it should be noted that, due to the sheer scale of land involved coupled with the remote location of lands and the sporadic occurrence and dynamic nature of such fires, it is simply not possible to provide a universal and visible presence as a deterrent on the ground. My national parks and reserves network alone covers 87,000 ha and approximately 14% of the State is designated as either a special area of conversation or a special protected area with much of this land in private ownership. These areas are the heart and lungs of our country. Trying to identify those who deliberately set fires in open areas without concern for the consequences can be challenging.
I am pleased to report that our ground patrols have interrupted some of those setting fires in recent days and that a number of live criminal investigations are under way. Furthermore, the overflights enable us to identify the seats of such fires and, as a consequence, pursue both criminal prosecutions under the Wildlife Acts and cross-compliance penalties with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine.
The issue here is individuals being more responsible for the actions they take and being mindful of the potential damage to life, nature and property that can be caused by deliberately setting fires. The perpetrators of these acts are known in their communities. I ask that information be given in confidence to the NPWS or the Garda confidential line so that illegal and uncontrolled fires can be investigated.
Nobody has the right to unilaterally declare that they are going to burn land indiscriminately. These acts fall into the category of socially unacceptable as they damage entire communities and, frankly, give all, including those who act responsibly, a bad name. It is that irresponsibility that is driving the extensive calls for a change in the law. In any event, it is probably timely to look again at the six-month period during which burning may take place, especially in light of changing climate and weather patterns, nesting and breeding habitats and international nature compliance obligations.
I thank the Minister of State for that response. I was conscious of the language I used and how specific I wanted to be because I want to talk about uncontrolled burning. As I said, I have been out with those hill and sheep farmers and they have shown me the manpower needed to perform a controlled burning. That is not what I am talking about; I am not talking about instances of responsible land management. If Cromwell sent the Irish people to hell or to Connacht, we have sent our biodiversity and wildlife to the hedge or the uplands. Those are the reserves we have left. Even those are now under enormous pressure. That is what we witnessed this weekend gone.
We hear the phrase "just transition" mentioned often in the House. Here is an example of where the rubber needs to meet the road in that regard. Under our current model, the people who work on that land, who spoke to me passionately about how attached they are to their landscape, cannot make a bob out of it. They are forced into practices they do not agree with. They have the very skills, knowledge and experience we need to unlock to make these biodiversity-rich habitats functioning for carbon sequestration and water management. I have a community of hill farmers in Waterford. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, will know these people as well. They are great people and they are ready for this. They are ready to participate in projects and initiatives that manage this landscape better. They have the tools and the skills. Let us engage with them and make sure the funding is acting in the right way. Let us share that vision.
We have seen some of it in Eoghan Daltun's amazing book on the Irish rainforest. We have seen some examples in the Scottish Highlands. Let us spell it out to people. Let us show them what we think these landscapes could look like and the richness, the value and the worth we can build into these landscapes if we only fund it appropriately.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything the Deputy said. We need farmers. We need landowners on our land in uplands. Conservation grazing works and it has an important role to play in nature restoration.
The Department is currently conducting a review of wildlife legislation. This is an extensive review on a multi-year project taking in every facet of our wildlife laws. It will examine closely the effectiveness of our legislation in protecting wildlife and regulating activities that adversely impact on wildlife and biodiversity. In particular, it will look at how we can improve the deterrent in respect of wildlife crime and the enforceability of our wildlife laws. I am keen that our laws offer the best protection possible for wildlife and biodiversity, are based on sound scientific and ecological advice, and strike a fair balance between economic social needs and the needs of wildlife. The burning season is one area that will be looked closely at as part of this review.
It should be remembered that what is being damaged through unsustainable land management practices is a precious national resource. The Department expends considerable resources in managing our national parks and heritage sites and in the protection and conservation of valuable landscapes, biodiversity, flora and fauna, and they are a valuable social resource. The Department will continue to work along closely with land users in upland and other areas to pursue effective management for nature. We are clear we need our landowners. We need our farmers to conserve and restore nature.
Deputy Ó Cathasaigh spoke about the Comeraghs - I recently saw effective upland vegetation management in the Slieve Blooms, creating mosaic habitats that can have a positive impact for nature and support farmers and landowners. These are the types of activities we want to pursue.
The Deputy mentioned farm incomes. Succession is a significant problem with farming as well. These are issues we can tackle with a fund in supporting landowners to do the right thing for nature.
I unequivocally condemn all of the indiscriminate fires that have been set around the country in recent weeks.