Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Mar 2023

Vol. 1035 No. 6

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

School Accommodation

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this Topical Issue matter. We are increasingly a country of waiting lists. We have shocking waiting lists for social housing of up to 20 years in my area and we have shocking waiting lists for surgery in our health service. Gaelscoil Phádraig in Loughlinstown has possibly endured the longest wait of all, which is not a record it is happy with. It has waited 27 years for a permanent school building, which is almost unbelievable.

The school has been accommodated in prefabs on a 0.7 acre site for 27 years. Many of the prefabs date back to 2005, others to 2007 and a few are a little bit newer than that. Many pupils have gone through their entire primary school lives in prefabs, without a school hall and without the facilities we would expect for school plays and indoor sports activities. They have been in prefabs for all of that time. The reason for the delay is that they are waiting to move into the school building that is occupied by a special school, which in turn is waiting for completion of one of the 58 projects for which it was recently announced there would be further delays.

The Minister of State can imagine how gut-wrenching this is for Gaelscoil Phádraig, the pupils, teachers, school community and parents, after a 27-year wait and repeated promises that the construction of the Ballyowen Meadows Special School building would free up the building it is supposed to move into to finally get their school. That is not the case, however, and there is to be further delay. They have had promise after promise. For example, in 2020, the school met officials from the Department of Education's building unit and it was assured at that time that the project would drive ahead and construction would begin by the end of 2020. Still nothing has happened. Now it has heard that there will be a further delay and again it does not know what will happen.

The school will have its 30th anniversary in 2025 and at this stage it still does not know if, after 30 years of existence, it will be in its permanent school home by that time. This story could not be made up. That is a shocking, despicable and unacceptable way to treat this school, which, by the way, is a DEIS band 2 school in Loughlinstown, an area of significant disadvantage. The latest reply to a parliamentary question I received on this issue just the other day did not provide a commitment or clear timeline for when the school will gets its permanent building. The school wants to hear that there will be no further delay and it will be in its permanent school building before it reaches its 30th anniversary.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and I appreciate his frustration. As he said, this has been going on for 27 years. Although this matter is not directly under my remit, I have a particular interest in it because the delivery of Gaelscoil Phádraig is being impacted by the delay in progressing the project at Ballyowen Meadows Special School. As Minister of State with responsibility for special education, that is of concern to me.

I am confident that additional funding will be provided and I know that discussions are at an advanced stage between the Department of Education and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform to make sure that projects like this go ahead. It seems to me like an unconscionable delay. It is unfortunate, when the Deputy references a meeting held back in 2020, that Covid then came into the equation. That is something that was not envisaged at the time the Department gave assurances to the school. Not alone that, but we also had a major increase in demographics, construction costs and inflation and a ramping up of additional capacity for children with additional needs and Ukrainian pupils. All of those factors together have resulted in the Department being under major pressure.

The Department received €300 million in additional funding in 2022, which helped to alleviate the capital funding issue in that year. I have no doubt the issue will be resolved for this year as well. The strong level of delivery is a key driver of capital pressures in the Department. In addition to the normal school budgetary processes, there are the other factors I outlined.

I have been working closely on this issue with the Taoiseach and the Ministers for Education and Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, and they are aware of my concerns. I am assured, and I reassure the Deputy and the relevant school communities, that any buildings on hold due to capital funding pressures will be progressed and delivered. It is just a question of timing. I know that may be of cold comfort to the Deputy and the school after waiting 27 years but I am well aware of the urgency of this project and the other projects that are outstanding. The outcome of our continued engagement with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform will provide better clarity on the timelines for the progression of these projects. This project is of key concern to me.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

It is grimly ironic that the response of the Government and the Minister of State is that it is "a question of timing". Talk about stating the bleeding obvious. It has been 27 years so it is exactly a question of timing and it is beyond belief that a school could be waiting for 27 years.

We often hear Ministers trumpeting the fact that they have approved new schools and so on. What we do not often hear is that schools do not have permanent buildings and in some cases they do not have any buildings at all. That this has been going on for 27 years is beyond shocking. I do not understand where the funding hold-up is. Every time there are announcements of Government tax revenue figures, we hear they are at record levels. There are enormous amounts of money available to this Government, especially now, and I simply do not understand how the money cannot be made available to progress the Ballyowen Meadows Special School project, thereby ensuring that Gaelscoil Phádraig gets into its permanent school building.

Let us think about this. As there is no school hall, extracurricular or indoor sports activity for these pupils are gone if it rains. In many cases, classes are in decrepit prefabs and the school is terrified to get new prefabs because if it does, it might wait even longer because the Department will decide the school is grand because it has new prefabs. Some of these prefabs have been there since 2005.

All of the 58 schools deserve a commitment but a school that has been waiting for 27 years needs a commitment now. It deserves a commitment that there will be no delay, that this will proceed and that it will be in its permanent school location on its 30th anniversary.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I appreciate that, no more than any other school, Gaelscoil Phádraig, which has 145 pupils, deserves to be properly housed in adequate and appropriate accommodation. I know the negotiations and discussions between the Department of Education and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform are at an advanced stage and I have been assured by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, that the issue will be sorted out in early course.

There were 180 school building projects delivered in 2022 and over 300 building projects were under construction at the start of 2023.

It is important to note the current construction environment is challenging, as the Deputy can appreciate. It can be difficult at times to attract strong interest from contractors and get them to stand over tender prices for projects proceeding to construction. Notwithstanding that, we are doing everything we can to ensure we can deliver these projects as soon as possible. I give the Deputy my assurance about that.

School Accommodation

Deputy Jim O'Callaghan

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important Topical Issue matter for debate.

It has recently been announced that four school building projects have been delayed in the constituency of Dublin Bay South. It is absolutely essential that those building projects commence rapidly and without any further delay. Two of the schools are secondary schools that were established in the past five years, namely Sandymount Park Educate Together Secondary School and Harold's Cross Educate Together Secondary School. Both have been outstanding successes. Parents made the brave decision to send their children to these new schools. Those decisions have been well vindicated because they are excellent schools and at present many children who are leaving national school want to go to them. However, as the Minister of State will be aware, the establishment of a new secondary school requires the parents and prospective parents to see continuous progress. Whatever about the decision of parents to put their children into a new school in the year it is established, it is extremely important that after three or four years parents see that the proposed new school that was planned to be built is on the road to development. Part of the reason many parents sent their children to these two secondary schools is that they were promised that state-of-the-art secondary schools would be developed. That is why it is so disappointing there has been a delay in both of these schools.

Sandymount Park Educate Together Secondary School, ETSS, is presently housed in Roslyn Park. The building was not designed to accommodate a modern secondary school. It got planning permission for a new school in 2021. Harold's Cross ETSS is now operating in modular accommodation in the grounds of the old Harold's Cross greyhound track. It was given planning permission in 2022. Like Sandymount Park ETSS, it expected that development would commence later this year with the putting of the projects for both jobs out to tender. Unfortunately the parents, principals and teachers are extremely disappointed about the delay and they find it hard to understand why such important projects are being delayed.

I stated that four schools are affected. In addition to the two secondary schools I have mentioned, projects for Shellybanks Educate Together National School, ETNS, which is on the grounds of Roslyn Park, and for Harold's Cross ETNS have been delayed as a result of the decision of the Government not to proceed.

I listened to the Minister of State's earlier response in which she said it was a matter of timing. However, it is more than a matter of timing for schools, for parents and most importantly for children who have a limited number of years in secondary school. It is obvious that these developments will proceed. There is doubt and no question mark over them, but that raises the question of what the reason for the delay is. The Minister of State indicated that discussions would take place between the Department of Education and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. I ask her to bring a message back to the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform that it is nonsensical to delay works on these schools. Education is an essential part of a child's development. As I stated earlier, it is essential for parents of children who are attending a new school to see progress. The difficulty is that if they do not see progress and if the delay continues for longer than people expect, it can have a negative and detrimental impact on the development of the school and on the school itself. I ask the Minister of State to prioritise this issue with the Department.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Deputy. I am glad he was in the Chamber when I was responding to the Topical Issue matter raised by Deputy Boyd Barrett. While they raised matters relating to different schools, there are similarities with respect to the reasons for the delays. I reassure the Deputy that I have been pestering various Departments and Ministers in order to get this matter resolved, as an advocate and as Minister of State with responsibility for special education. It is of great concern to me that this be resolved as soon as possible.

When I talk about it being a matter of timing, I do not say it in a glib way. I say it because, as the Deputy acknowledged, I have been given reassurances that this will be resolved. I am simply saying it is a matter of when that will happen. I hope and I understand it will happen in the early course of the foreseeable future. It will happen within weeks as opposed to months and it is important to say that here today.

All of the individual schools will be given an update about our engagement with the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform when it has concluded, and obviously in the context of the national development plan. The Department will continue to liaise with the schools' patron bodies, especially around any interim accommodation needs, pending delivery of their permanent accommodation. We will provide an update to individual schools as soon as possible and the planning and building unit will also update patron bodies and school management bodies.

The projects are simply at a stage in the process where, in the context of capital funding pressures, it is necessary to place them on hold. However, as I said, I hope and I reassure the Deputy that all the projects that are on hold will be resolved in early course. I am aware of the fact that Sandymount Park ETSS and Shellybanks ETNS have had planning permission since January 2021 and that Harold's Cross ETSS and Harold's Cross ETNS are in modular accommodation and have had planning permission since 2022. We want them to go ahead to tender and construction as soon as possible. As the Deputy is aware, these schools are among a number of different projects that have completed an advanced stage of architectural planning and are due to proceed to tender stage, which is the next stage of the architectural planning. We hope that will be done as soon as possible. I will do everything I can to ensure I continue to liaise closely with the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, the Taoiseach and the Department of Education to ensure this is done as soon as possible.

Deputy Jim O'Callaghan

I thank the Minister of State for her response. I am sure she will agree it is regrettable that elected representatives have to raise such issues on the floor of the Dáil. It should be the case that these projects would proceed in accordance with the plans and expectations set out for parents and teachers. I was previously informed that part of the reason for the delay is the rising cost of building materials and inflation in the building sector and because prioritisation is being given to other capital projects in the Department. It has been indicated that lot 6, which includes ten building projects, is the lot that has been delayed. I am not sure of the detail of what other projects are in lot 6 but it is of concern to me that four school building projects in my constituency appear to have been delayed.

The Minister of State is aware, coming from a neighbouring constituency, of the urgency and demands for educational facilities for schools in the area. I am not trying to say that in comparison with other parts of the country, but there are severe pressures on the education system in terms of secondary schools in the area I represent. I welcome the Minister of State's indication that she thinks the delay is going to be short and has indicated it will be a matter of weeks as opposed to months. I urge her however to ensure the people making this decision within the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform fully recognise there probably is no long-term or even short-term benefit to this delay. We all know work will commence and the schools will be built. I do not understand the reason for this short-term delay. Is it for the purpose of trying to ensure the capital budget for 2023 is not exceeded? If that is the case, it should be stated. We must ensure it gets up and running to the tender process as quickly as possible and certainly no later than quarter 1 of next year.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

As I mentioned earlier, an extra €300 million in additional funding was given to the Department of Education in 2022. It was necessary to alleviate not just the normal pressures schools face but also accelerated delivery for children with special educational needs, which, as the Minister of State responsible for special education, I recognise as extremely important, the continued inflow of Ukrainian pupils and those seeking international protection, as well as the construction costs and inflation. More funding was required because there was an overrun at the Department for this year also. That is the real reason for it. In fairness, the Department has a strong track record. A total €4.4 billion was allocated in the National Development Plan 2021-2025. There are 1 million pupils and 100,000 staff. I am satisfied, based on conversations with the Minister and the Taoiseach, that this will be resolved in early course. These projects are on pause but will be resolved and will progress in due course.

Primary Care Services

Deputy Joan Collins

I am disappointed that neither the Minister for Health nor any of the Ministers of State at the Department of Health are here because this is an important issue. I am sorry the other Minister of State is leaving because it is to do with the lack of services in Armagh Road primary care centre, which is linked to the special school on Armagh Road, Our Lady of Hope School. We were informed by activists in Drimnagh that, on Tuesday evening, an employee in the Mother McAuley Centre contacted them to say that all public health nurses were moving out of Curlew Road health centre to Armagh Road primary care centre due to staff shortages. She has had difficulty getting nurse services for the centre over the past week or so, the email said. All public health nurses will be gone by 1 April. Allied support workers, occupational therapists, OTs, and social workers have already moved to Armagh Road, so they do not know which services are left in Curlew Road. The employee was also informed that the sod on the new primary care centre, for which we have been waiting nearly ten years, will not be turned until quarter 4 2024. The email goes on to say that this is truly frightening news and something needs to be done about it urgently. Residents in Drimnagh feel they have been kicked in the teeth again and deprived of services. I hope we will get some clarification from the Minister of State this evening on this issue.

Deputy Bríd Smith

It is disappointing there is no one from the Department of Health here. The issue for Drimnagh is the total neglect of the area. Moving nurses out of the Mother McAuley Centre on Curlew Road to Armagh Road is adding fuel to the fire. One could argue they are both in Dublin 12, so what is the problem. They are actually very separate geographical areas and there is no bus link joining the two areas directly or joining the two centres. It is important to remember that many of the people who use this centre are elderly. There is a dementia clinic there. It is mainly used by elderly people and there is also a mother and baby clinic. Transport is an issue. I understand they have been told there will be some transport link between them, but it is very vague and nothing is clear. The point is that it is another kick in the teeth to the people of Drimnagh and another diminishing of services. There is a shortage of staff, so Drimnagh is being picked on again. It is not acceptable. The shortages of staff are not acceptable. If they are to move all of the clients from Drimnagh to Crumlin and they are all to pile into the one area, we will probably be looking at an overcrowded, understaffed and very badly delivered service. It requires explanation and must be urgently dealt with.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

Similar to both of the Deputies before me, I feel Drimnagh has been ignored. It is a community with an ageing population but also a very young population where young families have moved into the area and there are many young children. There is also a new community in the area and many developments. The public health nurse, in particular, has a huge role in outreach in that area. If somebody is moved across one of the main routes out of this city, it makes it much more difficult for those who want or need those services and for the nurses to stay engaged with the community they are moving to. The concern people have is that once they are in Armagh Road, the services they will be able to deliver to the Drimnagh residents will be diluted and their primary role will be to cater for walk-in patients, walking wounded or those nearby, rather than those who will now be farther away. That is their main concern. As Deputy Smith said, there is no direct bus route or connection, which many older people rely on. There is a need for a commitment that the public health nurses and services which have already been moved out of the area are retained in the area and that plans for the primary healthcare centre go ahead, rather than be continually delayed. Planning permission was granted in 2014.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Malcolm Noonan)

I am responding on behalf of the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, and accept the comments made by Deputies Collins, Smith and Ó Snodaigh regarding this important issue. We all agree that public health nurses play an extremely valuable role in the community healthcare system, providing an extensive range of services vital to local communities across the country, including in Drimnagh, and that those communities would have access to public health nurses when they need them. However, consistent with recruitment challenges across the health sector nationally and noting statements in the Dáil this afternoon, the public health nursing service in Dublin south-west is currently dealing with significant staff shortages. These shortages are mainly due to reductions in the availability of staff due to retirement, internal movement and leave. Despite ongoing recruitment campaigns and attendance at national and international recruitment fairs, the recruitment of public health nurses continues to prove particularly challenging for the Dublin south-west area. The HSE has assured the Minister that it will continue to make every effort to provide the required nursing services to the population despite these recruitment difficulties.

To ensure any impact on service provision is kept to a minimum, the public health nursing service in Dublin south-west has taken the decision to pool resources as a short-term mitigation measure. Public health nursing services will be consolidated in Armagh Road, with a satellite clinic to be provided in Curlew Road. It is hoped the provision of a satellite clinic will ensure minimal impact on service users. It is also important to note the HSE has advised that this change will see no impact on those receiving domiciliary nursing services. The HSE expects implementation of this process to begin the week of 3 April 2023, with a communication letter to be issued to service users and relevant stakeholders in advance of this date. Importantly, the HSE has advised that this measure will be subject to daily monitoring to ensure continuity of care and to manage risk. The HSE has also reiterated that, as and when staffing levels increase, nursing staff will return to Curlew Road. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, has also been informed that occupational therapy services, dietetics and addiction services will continue to be provided from Curlew Road health centre.

In addition, in response to the broader challenges of recruitment and retention of public health nurses, the HSE established a community nursing national oversight group last year.

The group is tasked with developing proposals and recommendations which will aim to address the issues in recruitment and retention of public health nurses and community registered general nurses. Of course, the Department recognises the stress and frustration caused by the shortages in public health nursing. The Department and the HSE encourage any service users with concerns to contact their local public health nursing service directly. I note the points raised by Deputies Bríd Smith and Aengus Ó Snodaigh with regard to transport links. It is a critical issue for elderly people and others accessing services or clinic appointments.

Deputy Joan Collins

This is an absolute disgrace. It is similar to moving the chairs on the Titanic at this stage, from the point of view of the HSE. One primary care centre cannot retain or recruit staff and staff are being pulled out of Curlew Road to fill the gap in that centre. It is crazy. Elderly people are being left anxious about where they will get their care from. They are mainly people with mobility issues who use the Mother McAuley centre services and have ulcers, cataracts and all those types of things. We wish to see those services in our community in Drimnagh. I will register the fact that this is wrong. Those nurses should be brought back down, or else the Minister of State should give a commitment that there will be services between the two centres, before 3 April.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I will answer that. During the afternoon, there was a session here on safe staffing levels in our health service. Safe staffing levels are not just to do with staff. They are mainly to do with patients. We are putting the safety of the patients in Drimnagh, that is, the elderly and people who need mother and baby care services and people with the dementia, at risk by doing this. I can see why the Minister of State is saying the HSE is left with no choice, because of staff shortages, but these things are connected. The staff shortages are connected to the lack of housing. We are dealing with it all week and we will be dealing with it again next week. The lack of housing for staff in this State is an utter disgrace and it is putting the safety of patients at risk. Something urgent needs to be done. I doubt the people of Drimnagh will just accept that everything will close for Drimnagh on 3 April and everyone has to traipse over to Crumlin and back again. It is not acceptable and if that is the only answer we are to get here this evening, we have to go back to the drawing board with the rest of the community.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

This issue will not go away. It is a considerable extra burden on those who depend on these services, especially the many vulnerable people who depend on them, whether it is the elderly, those confined to the house with illness or young mothers coming out of the hospital. There is an extra workload on public health nurses in trying to get from the Armagh Road centre, across to Drimnagh and back again, as well as whatever additional workload will be put on them because of shortfalls on Armagh Road. The public health nurses do tremendous work. They are needed and respected in the community and the community in Drimnagh does not wish to lose them. There is a fear that once they move to Armagh Road they will not come back, despite the promises.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I note the concerns of the Deputies. It is a short-term measure, while these recruitment challenges exist. There is a commitment to develop a new primary care centre at Curlew Road within CHO 7. By pruning public health nursing resources, the service can provide better continuity of care, while ensuring that those with greatest clinical need continue to be seen in the community. The HSE has assured the Department that this mitigation measure will be under daily review and will help to ensure delivery of a safer service. The population of Drimnagh will continue to be served, with Curlew Road acting as a satellite clinic and once staffing levels increase, nursing staff will return to Curlew Road health centre. While every effort is being made to address the recruitment challenges in the short term, including ongoing campaigns, longer-term recruitment challenges face a range of sectors, including the health sector.

It is expected that the recently established community nursing national oversight group will propose recommendations later this year that aim to address some of the longer-term issues with regard to recruitment and retention of public health nurses and community registered general nurses. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, wishes to reassure all Deputies that the Department of Health and the HSE will continue to work together to review and monitor staffing and service levels and work to utilise all practical options to fill vacancies, whether they exist in Dublin South-West or elsewhere. I note the concerns the Deputies have raised, especially about transport and the inconvenience it is causing to service users within the health centre. I note the issues with transport raised by Deputy Smith, in particular, but this is a temporary measure while these recruitment challenges exist.

Water Services

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Since I became involved in politics and especially since I went to live in rural Ireland, having grown up in a city where water, street lights, pavements, sewerage and all these services were taken for granted, it always surprised me that fundamental, basic services are seen as too expensive and unaffordable for rural people.

There are four services that should be in every house in the country. The first of them is electricity. Thankfully, we have achieved that. We achieved it at a time when this country was relatively poor and when it was much slower and more difficult to provide fundamental infrastructure. The second is broadband. We will put fibre into every premises in the country. It is a brave decision, on which I disagreed with the policy of my own party. I absolutely supported what the Government of the time did, in saying fibre broadband would go to every premises and rather than to shilly-shally, that the right job be done. The third service is nearly complete, that is, a decent road that can be travelled to every house. We do not need motorways, but we need a road with a decent surface. It has been done in most places and the remaining places are being done under the local improvement scheme. The scheme is not ideal, but at least the roads are getting done. The fourth service is water. A fundamental thing that everybody needs is clean - as it is called in jargon - potable drinking water. For some reason, there is a lacuna here and the system keeps balking at providing for the 10% of houses that do not have public water supplies or a group scheme connected to their premises.

There is much talk about a referendum on water. I presume that when people talk about a referendum on water, they are talking about the right of every household in the country to clean drinking water and that it be central to this referendum. Only 10% of houses do not have this service. When we look at the spend - the Minister of State might have it - on water and wastewater in this country, it is approximately €2 billion. The vast majority of that goes into wastewater, which only serves 70% of the people. I have a great answer before me, which is full of jargon, to a previous question I raised. Time and again, we are told it is not economically possible. Basic services are very rarely economic, in the economist's view of the world. They are choices for society. I am suggesting the Government make a decision that every house in the country have those four fundamental services, that is, water, electricity, broadband and a road. If we could say we had achieved that - this is 2023 - we would have done something very basic in this country.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

The Government’s vision for water services, whether publicly supplied by Uisce Éireann or otherwise delivered under the rural water programme, is set out in the water services policy statement 2018 to 2025. It is based on the delivery and development of water services in line with the needs and expectations of citizens and users, in compliance with legal obligations, in a fair and cost-effective manner and in keeping with the principles of social, economic and environmental sustainability. We continue, as a Government, to upgrade our investment in water services infrastructure, in keeping with our EU drinking water and wastewater services obligations, and in line with population growth and economic development needs in both urban and rural areas.

Factors such as distance and geography mean that connection to the public water system, operated by Uisce Éireann, is unlikely to be a technically feasible or economically viable solution for all households and businesses in the State.

It is precisely because of this viability challenge that the Government necessarily supports a diverse range of measures under the rural water programme to address the water services needs of rural households and communities where connection to the public networks managed by Uisce Éireann is not possible. Some 6% of people have their drinking water supplied by either public or private group schemes. Public group water schemes are group schemes supplied with treated drinking water in bulk by Uisce Éireann, whereas private group water schemes abstract, treat and distribute drinking water to their members. Private group water schemes are generally co-operative groups. There are wonderful groups right around the country. A further 10% of people get their drinking water from private wells.

With regard to wastewater services census data indicates that approximately one third of households rely on individual, group or other waste water treatment arrangements. Apart from the economic cost of connection it should also be clear from the arrangements I have outlined that many of the facilities in place, although supported by significant and growing State investment and support, and rightly so, are not in public ownership. The State approach in such situations is to work as collaboratively and as supportively as possible with the communities involved while respecting local community expectations and co-operative ownership arrangements. It would erroneous to assume that connection to a public water network would be a universal choice adopted by all citizens and communities.

Arrangements for connection of existing group water and waste water schemes to Uisce Éireann are, of course, possible and proactively encouraged where such an arrangement is technically feasible and economically viable. Clearly, however, the Exchequer support provided through the rural water programme will continue to be necessary to deliver improvements to the quality, reliability and efficiency of private water services in areas of rural Ireland where there is no access to piped water services. As the Deputy will appreciate, the Government is strongly committed to fair and balanced development for urban and rural communities alike. Our Rural Future: Rural Development Policy 2021-2025 presents the Government’s blueprint and policy measures for recovery and development of rural Ireland over the period from 2021 to 2025. The policy document identifies deficits in water and wastewater infrastructure which present a particular challenge to the development of many rural towns and villages and states that this issue needs to be addressed to revitalise rural towns and villages. The matter raised, therefore, is a priority for Government and good progress is being made through the combined efforts of our local authorities working in conjunction with household and businesses at community level, and, where appropriate, Uisce Éireann.

The national development plan includes an allocation of €175 million over the period 2021 to 2025 for investment in rural water infrastructure under the rural water programme. My Department is also currently finalising work on the review of the rural water sector, which is considering issues such as governance, supervision and monitoring, along with the wider investment needs of the sector to be provided for under the ongoing multi-annual rural water programme. The aim of the review is to recommend actions now and into the future to ensure an equality of outcomes for those served by Uisce Éireann or supported under the rural water programme.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I did not get a copy of the Minister of State's speech but he said that the water services policy from 2018 to 2025 is based on the delivery and development of water services in line with the needs and expectations of citizens and users, in compliance with legal obligations, in a fair and cost-effective manner and in keeping with the principles of social, economic and environmental sustainability. I have been reading this again and again and trying to decipher it into simple, understandable terms. Does it or does it not mean that every house in the country should have access to drinking water, clean, treated and tested? If it does not, the policy is flawed.

It is amazing we can put fibre in and we cannot put water in. I hear this argument about the economics of doing this. We have a working model that proves the economics are not anything like they are made out to be. I invite the Minister of State to come down to that area between Clonbur and the far end of the Maam valley, including places such as Glentraigue, a dead-end valley, Crumlin valley, Dooros and all these peninsulas and valleys that we have in that area. It is as scattered a rural community as he will find. Under the Clár programme, the grant at the time was €5,000 and we charged the householders approximately €500 so that was €5,500. With a very modest top-up, we were able to bring water to virtually every house. We missed two houses, one because they would not take it and the other one was a bit over the mountain for the way we were costing the schemes. The whole area was done. It is as scattered as is possible to find in the country. It is a once-off cost and running and maintaining good, well-laid water schemes is very cheap after that. We know in our area. Those group schemes that were put in were all connected to the public main and we now have one of the best quality water systems in the country with little maintenance because it was all built to standard and new. I and the Department responsible for rural development can absolutely demolish the theory that it is not affordable. I have argued this point with the Minister of State's colleague with responsibility for rural development. The Clár programme had a very efficient scheme for doing exactly what I want done in conjunction with the Department responsible for water. It was delivering water in all of these areas until the Government of 2011 abolished it. A good section had been done. The economic argument is blown absolutely out of the water. We have the rural regeneration and development fund and all sorts of fancy things are being done under that but none of them are as fundamental as the right to water. The right to water is coming on the agenda. When that happens, the 10%, which is 200,000 houses, give or take, who will be marching and demanding that they have a right to clean, tested, treated water as much as anybody else.

Deputy Malcolm Noonan

I agree wholeheartedly with the Deputy. That right of everyone to have clean potable drinking water is fundamental. I mentioned the Federation of Group Water Schemes in my initial reply. It is an organisation to be greatly admired. The members have delivered high-quality water and work on environmental and other biodiversity initiatives around the country. They really are an exemplar of how to deliver water into remote rural areas. Our Government is committed to supporting the federation's work. We fund Uisce Éireann to deliver water to rural towns and villages as well and encourage as many communities as possible to connect into water schemes. That is a given. I note too the point that there are many households for which either private group water schemes or the option to connect to other schemes are not there. It is critically important that people living in those areas are able to access clean drinking water through recognised systems and wells. A lot of them are delivering their water through private wells so that is to be accepted. It is not possible to reach all areas across the country.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

It is possible. Check your facts.