Vol. 1036 No. 3
58. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he has engaged with the Department of Justice regarding the national review of State supports for PhD researchers in relation to visa and immigration status of non-EEA PhD researchers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15747/23]
This question concerns PhD researchers from non-EEA countries. There is a national review of State supports for PhD researchers generally taking place and last week hundreds of these researchers were outside Leinster House to highlight the issues they face with their work.
This is a tricky question for me because usually when I am asked if I have engaged with another Department I can say I will, but I am currently the Minister for Justice as well so it is a question asking whether I have engaged with myself, which I do regularly.
It is a tricky one for me as well.
I thank Deputies Gino Kenny and Boyd Barrett for the question. It is an important issue. The quality of our researchers is fundamental to the quality of our research system and its collaboration with partners in industry and policymakers in both Ireland and abroad.
Under pillar 4 of our national research and innovation strategy, Impact 2030, we have committed to ensuring that researchers have the right skills development and career opportunities to allow them make their maximum contribution, whether in academia, industry, the public sector or elsewhere. As part of this commitment, I announced a national review of State supports for PhD researchers. I was pleased to appoint two exceptional co-chairs, Dr. Andrea Johnson and David Cagney, to oversee the review. I met the co-chairs at the end of February and they provided an update on the progress of the review.
This independent review is currently very much under way. The two co-chairs are approaching completion of a very comprehensive round of stakeholder consultations and written submissions. The Dáil felt strongly about the importance of the co-chairs meeting directly with the representative groups, research groups, student groups and other stakeholders. I am pleased to tell the Deputy the stakeholder engagement included a meeting between the co-chairs and officials from both the Department of Justice and the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science on 20 March.
The review is considering a range of critical issues, including those affecting non-EEA PhD researchers, as well as stipend levels and the consistency of supports across the system. Once the co-chairs complete their report, it will be considered by all relevant Government Departments, including the Department of Justice, in advance of a Government decision. The fundamental piece here, which I hear when I go around the country and engage with researchers, is we want to attract people here to do their research. That often involves a spouse coming as well, it may involve a family and it involves our visa system understanding how that happens. What the review group is trying to do in working with the Department of Justice is come up with solid recommendations in that space.
As I said, hundreds of PhD researchers were outside Leinster House last week to highlight the issue of their pay and conditions. There are over 10,500 such researchers and their hourly rate is below the minimum wage at present. It is difficult to survive on that. I think the stipend is €19,000 at the moment and researchers are calling for more than that due to the cost-of-living crisis and the cost of living in the State generally. PhD researchers are excluded from social welfare benefits because they are paid so little they do not earn PRSI contributions. The review is therefore important, and I hope it will be favourable for PhD students, wherever they come from. As the Minister said it is about keeping their talent in the country and the importance of their giving the benefit of their education and talent to the country.
Deputy Conway-Walsh wishes to contribute on this question.
I am glad the focus is on PhD researchers at the moment and that there has been a realisation they are critical not only to our productivity, but to our social and economic growth now and into the future. There were reports last night that Jeffrey Sardina, a member of the national committee of the Postgraduate Workers Organisation, PWO, received documents from Revenue that indicated PhD researchers in receipt of the stipend may be required to pay taxes. Is the Minister aware of any evaluation by Revenue that suggests this? This is concerning in two ways. The first is the idea someone earning far below the minimum wage and denied all standard workers' rights would be asked to pay tax. PhD researchers are barely able to get by and they simply cannot afford to see a reduction in what they take home, which is already minute. The second issue is whether Revenue has looked at the work of the PhD researcher and concluded it is not a scholarship, but in fact work. According to Revenue, the object of the scholarship must be the promotion of the education of the holder, rather than the promotion of research through the holder. Can the Minister shed any light on that?
I have not been made aware of the issue Deputy Conway-Walsh raised, but I will certainly become aware of it and revert to the Deputy on it. To be clear, the overall policy direction I want to go in is financially to support better our PhD research. The Deputy and I share that view.
On what Deputy Kenny said, there are about 11,000 PhD and research master's students in Ireland and about 2,700 of them are non-EU students. The issue in discussing this, which shows the need for the review, is there is such a range of stipend conditions for PhD researchers already. Some are funded through Science Foundation Ireland and the Irish Research Council and they receive a stipend of around €19,000. Around 2,000 researchers are funded by higher education institutions themselves, and I believe the stipends there range from €8,000 to €18,500. There are around 4,000 PhD researchers categorised as self-funding. This is understood to include persons funded by their employers. Then there are about 1,000 researchers funded by other sources, including Teagasc, the Health Research Board and European programmes. Thus, there is a whole variety and a landscape here. I am going to run out of time, but the terms of reference of the review are really to look at current financial supports, the consistency, the equity of arrangements, the visa situation, the research-employer-student status and graduate outcomes. The group is to report to me on all that in the coming weeks.
I thank the Minister. I think we all agree the composition of PhD researchers as a group is quite disparate and that it is important they are kept in this country. They are educators, ultimately, and should not have to struggle with their everyday needs. I hope the review leads to an increase in the stipend. When will the review be published? The researchers are eager to hear what will come of it. We hope it will benefit all PhD researchers in the country.
A large body of work has been done by the co-chairs, for which I thank them. They have had meetings with more than 30 stakeholder organisations, including an all-day in-person workshop on 8 March. They have had a public consultation, through which they received approximately 750 written submissions, which indicates the energy behind the approach to change.
I expect to receive the report in the coming weeks - I hope to receive it in April - and will consider and publish it, but I will bring it to the Government first. I commissioned this review so as to have an evidence base and recommendations in advance of the Estimates process and the budget in October. After receiving it, bringing it to the Cabinet in due course and publishing it, I will try to begin to make progress on the Estimates.
59. Deputy Joe Flaherty asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if his Department will address an anomaly where recently approved applications under the undocumented scheme are precluded from the SUSI grant support scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15551/23]
I welcome the students from Scoil Mhuire National School in Newtown Forbes, who have a keen interest in further education.
Will the Department help to address an anomaly whereby recently approved applications under the undocumented scheme are precluded from Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI, grants, and will the Minister make a statement on the matter, please?
I welcome the students the Deputy has brought from his constituency.
Under the student grant scheme, SUSI grants are awarded to eligible students attending an approved course in an approved institution who meet the conditions of funding, including nationality and residency. The scheme has a strong statutory underpinning and is operated in accordance with the provisions of the law, namely, the Student Support Act 2011. To be eligible for a grant, a student must show that he or she has been resident in the State for at least three years out of the five-year period ending on the day before his or her course starts. The residency rule is applied equally to everyone regardless of individual circumstances, including Irish citizens returning home from a period of working abroad. The Act also explicitly states that a person shall not be entitled to derive any benefit from a period of unlawful presence in the State.
The Department of Justice's regularisation of long-term undocumented migrants scheme is an administrative scheme relating to immigration status. Having responsibility for both Departments, I have asked the officials in the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science to liaise with colleagues in the Department of Justice on the various categories of immigration status in the context of student grant eligibility.
While I am instinctively supportive, I need to ensure I operate within the confines of the law and do not do anything that has an unintended consequence in terms of advantaging one person to the disadvantage of another, given that, if I did, we would end up with legal difficulties. Within that context, though, I am examining whether a solution can be found. Once officials in both Departments have finished their deliberations, I will be happy to re-engage with Deputy Flaherty on the matter.
I thank the Minister for his reply. I am reminded of the supermarket offer, "Buy one, get one free," as he is covering both of his Departments. It is timely for me and some of the other Deputies present.
I welcome the Minister's update. It is the most promising update I have received to this point. This is a major issue. Many families that came here are, strictly speaking, undocumented. Their children went through national and secondary schools. I am aware of a family in my constituency where the eldest child, on securing immigration status, has commenced university but has no SUSI grant. Two siblings will be going to university this September. The family is dynamic and intelligent, and both parents are healthcare workers. This family will provide infinitely to our country, economy and healthcare system. It is important we mobilise such people and not disenfranchise them. However, I appreciate that the Minister needs to work around the issues. I appreciate the review and look forward to its findings.
Our country is all the better for the diversity in communities across Ireland. The story of the Deputy's constituents shows people who want a bright future and the best opportunities for their children in terms of education and employment prospects while also making a contribution to Ireland, our economy and the skill shortages that exist in many workplaces.
Applying for and being granted Irish citizenship – I had the honour of presiding at a citizenship ceremony a number of weeks ago – satisfies the eligibility criteria. I introduced a number of changes recently to ensure more students in international protection could access financial supports. We also have the student assistance fund. I make these points by way of highlighting a range of supports that are available separate to and distinct from the SUSI scheme, but the latter is our main way of supporting students and families with the cost of education. I will continue to engage on the issue.
I appreciate that, if the student were naturalised, it would remedy the situation, but that is an expensive route for a family that is only after exiting undocumented status to take. Even when we try to do things right, there are sometimes unintended consequences. This is one of those situations. I welcome that the Minister will engage with both of his Departments on trying to find a solution. Many people in this situation are in limbo and are facing financial uncertainty, so they will also welcome today's news. I ask the Minister to try to expedite the work so that there can be clarity in anticipation of the September academic term.
Does the Minister wish to respond?
I have nothing further to add other than to thank Deputy Flaherty and say that I will revert to him on the matter.
Everyone is being co-operative this morning. It is great.
We do our best.
63. Deputy Niamh Smyth asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he will provide an update on the work of the National Skills Council; what the council's proposed work plan is for 2023; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15656/23]
I believe Deputy Flaherty is substituting for his colleague.
I am a most unlikely sub. Will the Minister provide an update on the work of the National Skills Council, including its proposed 2023 work plan, and make a statement on the matter?
I thank Deputies Flaherty and Niamh Smyth for tabling this question.
The National Skills Council is the high-level advisory group on skills in Ireland and provides an opportunity for strategic dialogue and advice to inform Government decision-making to ensure our skills ecosystem continues to be flexible, agile and responsive to the needs of the future world of work. A key work plan priority for the council has been to support the OECD review of our national skills strategy, which I initiated last year and is nearing completion. This will be the largest review of our skills infrastructure in a generation. We have asked the OECD to examine the skills infrastructure, what works, what could work better and how our national skills strategy measures up to best international practice. The OECD has undertaken an intensive body of work and has held a series of bilateral engagements with members of the National Skills Council. There were three extraordinary meetings of the council in 2022, which facilitated a strong input in the review and, I hope, embedded a partnership approach throughout it.
As the OECD project reaches its final stages, this partnership with all stakeholders, under the aegis of the National Skills Council, continues to be central in our approach to addressing future skills needs. The council's members will have a key role in assessing and prioritising the OECD's recommendations for the next step in the development of a skills ecosystem in response to the key megatrends that have been highlighted in the OECD review, those being, digitisation, decarbonisation and demographic change.
Intensive work by my Department, including the secretariat for the National Skills Council in my Department, remains focused on finalising the review. This work will inform how the council's mandate can best be shaped for the remainder of 2023 and the future in advancing what must be ambitious goals for skills, talent and workforce development. The OECD's project will inform us on the future mandate, direction, work plan and programme for the National Skills Council. It will also present to the Government and the wider Oireachtas a number of policy considerations. Two of the areas where we must do much more are how we support people in work who need to upskill and reskill and how we support employers, particularly SMEs. We await the outcome of the review.
The OECD report will be timely and will inform what is a dynamic sector for us. The council brings education and training providers together with representatives from business to respond effectively to skill needs. Every Deputy will agree that the council is a forum that has effected significant change.
This is an evolving scene, with the training needs of multiple industries changing daily. The National Skills Council has played a key role in overseeing this and assisting numerous industries. It also plays a key role in advising the Minister and his Department on priority skill needs and the direction of skills and knowledge development in line with global trends. It was vital we linked up with the OECD on the report. Will the Minister outline key growth areas for the skills that are being flagged?
I very much welcome this OECD report and look forward to examining it. It is crucial to our economic growth going forward. The national skills input into that will determine how we shape and create the human workforce as we go forward. We also need to be cognisant of the need to join things up. If we are encouraging lifelong education and upskilling of the workforce, we need to look at how we fund part-time education. We also need to look at the interaction between AI and the service industries and how we can create growth there and regional growth right across the country. As we look forward to an all-island economy and how to maximise the potential there, it is important that we have that. That is why I would like to see education included in the North-South Ministerial Council, because it is important that we have a workforce right across the island that can maximise how we address the challenges and the opportunities in the future.
We are all aware of the need for lifelong learning and upskilling. The Minister has visited my home county, where projects have been run by the Louth and Meath Education and Training Board, LMETB, such as the Advanced Manufacturing Training Centre of Excellence, AMTCE. A huge part of that is engaging with industry. I have a very specific question. A number of employers have spoken about the need for human skills and soft skills, interpersonal skills and communication skills. That is something that is sometimes lacking in people who are entering the workforce. It is something that can be built and is necessary to build into the education system, particularly for those going through further and higher education. It is something we as a State need to ensure is part of the entire educational set-up.
I agree with Deputy Ó Murchú. There is no ETB in Ireland that has done as well as LMETB in terms of putting forward exciting projects. We see them both in Dundalk and Drogheda. Later today I will publish a progress report on the Drogheda implementation group. My sector of further and higher education, as distinct from my role in the Department of Justice, played an important role in hopefully helping embed some of those recommendations. I thank the Deputy for his co-operation and work with us on those things.
The National Skills Council is serving Ireland well. I thank its members. I also thank those in our national skills infrastructure in general, including the regional skills forums. When I engage with international colleagues people ask about our skills infrastructure. It is viewed as good and I thank those in the sector for that. However, we cannot be complacent, for all the reasons Deputy Conway-Walsh referenced. I attended some fascinating meetings with Enterprise Ireland in San Francisco recently on artificial intelligence. The world is about to change again. It is a question of how we keep up, get ahead of that and benefit from it.
On the key areas, the lifelong learning piece is going to be important. That will involve joining up the dots around how SUSI works, how the national training fund interacts and how to support both the employer and the employee. We need to recognise that the student or learner will not be able to access learning full time as they will be trying to hold down a job at the same time. These are big issues and I hope the report will guide us all as an Oireachtas as to how we take this forward.
I thank the Minister. I welcome the second half of the group of sixth year pupils from the Newtown Forbes national school, Scoil Mhuire. I am conscious that the last meeting of the council took place in October. At that time, there was a discussion on potential policy directions for priority under the theme of strengthening the governance to build a joined-up skills ecosystem. The discussion centred on three key points, namely, promoting a whole-of-government and strategic approach to skills policy, supporting effective engagement with stakeholders throughout the skills policy cycle and strengthening the collective use and dissemination of skills information. I would be most interested to hear the Minister's views on any outcomes of these discussions and if there are any actions the Department can build on from them.
The Deputy is having a busy day with the school tours. I join with him in welcoming the second group of sixth years from Newtown Forbes national school. They are very welcome to the Dáil.
The Deputy is right. What he read out with regard to its last meeting is an indication of the valuable work done by the National Skills Council. Away from the day-to-day stuff, it provides the council with an opportunity to scan the horizon and look at the changes that need to be brought in in the months and years ahead. My initial reflection from that meeting would be that the whole-of-government approach is absolutely key. We have a Department now that did not exist a number of years ago and we have it thanks to the Tánaiste. It was his view that we should create a Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. I hope that during that time it has shown its value and I think it has in many areas. However, the actual skills agenda is going to involve all Departments, whether the Department of Education, early years education with ECCE and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth or the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. It is about how we live and how we work. There is also the Work Life Balance Bill. There are so many different areas here that need to pull togather. The skills council has representatives from across government and across agencies to try to have that whole-of-government approach. That will be key to the success when the OECD report is concluded.
If the Minister is agreeable, we might go back to Question No. 61.
61. Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the plans his Department has to celebrate the European Year of Skills this year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15560/23]
Picking up on what the Minister said in his last contribution, it has been extremely valuable that a stand-alone Department was created for further and higher education due in particular to the emphasis it has allowed us to put on further education, apprenticeships and skills. We find ourselves in the European Year of Skills. It is something that slightly surprised the Joint Committee on Education, Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science when it arrived because it arrived at very short notice. What plans does the Department have to celebrate what should be a very important year?
If there is one part of the country that has seen the benefit of the new Department, I hope it is the Deputy's county, constituency and city of Waterford. We had a good week this week and I thank the Deputy for his work on that. We did not have a university for the south east when he entered the Dáil or when I entered this role. We have worked together on a cross-party basis and in government to get there. There has also been the expansion of the Waterford Crystal site. That shows what we can do when we put a focus on issues, particularly for the regions.
I warmly welcome the announcement of the European Year of Skills. This is a year that kicks off from May, which might be a little peculiar. For the rest of us the year kicks off in January but the year of skills kicks off in May so we still have time to get a good programme in place. The European Year of Skills is a welcome opportunity because it puts skills on centre stage. It also gets us at a member state level to start thinking about what we can do to showcase what is good and challenge ourselves from a policy perspective about what more we need to do. The aim is to ensure people get the right skills for quality jobs and to help companies, particularly small and medium enterprises, to address skills shortages. The year will showcase skills development opportunities and activities right across Europe and will bring organisations and people together to share their experience and insights. It is an opportunity to signpost where people can go for skills development and what has happened when people have undertaken that.
The objectives of the European Year of Skills align with the work we are already doing as part of our core business in my Department to ensure individuals and businesses are offered supports and pathways to quality education, upskilling and reskilling opportunities. Changes in the world of work, including the digital revolution, some of the issues we have been discussing and climate transformation, place a premium on supporting individuals and companies to make this transition. In 2022, I commissioned a review of the implementation of our national skills strategy and I am pleased that it will be published during the European Year of Skills because it will place a domestic focus on this as well. These will be some of the key themes from my Department, that is, the implementation of that report and looking at areas of focus around short flexible blended skills development.
Specifically on what we can do, we are having an event with stakeholders on 9 May. I intend to organise a skills summit and will work with the education committee on that. I would also like to see if the Dáil is agreeable to using Dáil time for a debate on skills and the European Year of Skills.
All of those measures are extremely welcome. We should do anything we can to bring people's attention to the central nature of skills in the development we need in our economy. It was said at the education committee that there is a cultural handbrake at play here that means parents are less likely to support their children going towards a life of apprenticeships, for example. We need to address that. The more we talk about skills and the more we raise the profile of things like apprenticeships within this Dáil the better because this is an issue all across our economy. The solution to the housing crisis, for example, is to build more housing. To do that, we need more people with the correct skills. Similarly, to fulfil the retrofitting agenda, we need people to retrain in that area. On changing land uses, there will be massive opportunities for people around forestry and nature restoration. The Minister mentioned early years education. That is critical, particularly for allowing women to participate within the economy. The renewable sector is going to be a huge employment area. All of these require people with apprenticeships and skills. There are great jobs to be had, not just this year or next year but over the coming decades.
Deputy Ó Murchú wants to come in on this as well.
I appreciate what the Minister said earlier. Similarly to what has been said previously, an example is the AMTCE dealing with schools and providing training for necessary skills, whether we are talking about welding or a pile of other skills. It is basically embedding that in students at a very young age. That is useful. I would go back to my earlier question. Are we looking at possible modules to train those necessary skills, that is, the human skills, interpersonal skills, soft skills and communication skills that are needed to deal with difficult situations and which students or employees sometimes do not have?
We dealt before with, and we are looking at, disability-friendly workplaces. That has to be done across the board with flexible grant schemes and whatever. I know the Minister is committed to dealing with the issue of personal assistants in further education colleges. It is absolutely necessary to provide the framework for those with disabilities who need that added help.
I look forward to Deputy Ó Murchú and I having this meeting on personal assistants and how we can make progress on that. Skillnet Ireland is the agency that can reach in to businesses to try to provide those transversal skills and to provide short courses. On the point Deputy Ó Cathasaigh made, Skillnet Ireland becoming Ireland's leading agency for upskilling and reskilling within the workplace will be one of the key policy directions of travel that will be seen from me and my Department in the months ahead. Going back to the European Year of Skills 2023, there are two things we need to showcase and to challenge ourselves on from a policy point of view. First is the fact that more and more people needing access to the education system are not going to just be full-time students or full-time young students. For all of the reasons outlined by Deputy Ó Cathasaigh such as the climate, digital, the way we work, artificial intelligence and so many others, more and more people, including well-qualified people in well-paid jobs, will need to be able to access education in a way that works for them. Second, we have too many people in this country locked out of full societal participation due to literacy and numeracy skills. It is not their fault; it is ours. The adult literacy for life strategy gives us a real opportunity to go back to make sure those people can go back and play their full role in society and the economy too.
The Minister made a very pertinent last point. I have just come from the launch of World Autism Month, which was very close to us here in Kildare Street. As we know, many people with autism are locked out of the workforce. A very pertinent point was made as well on lifelong learning. We have to stop considering our education journey as being finished at 22 or 23. We have to look at that component of education within the workforce, namely, lifelong learning and microcredentialing. The Minister met the Waterford and Wexford Education and Training Board, WWETB, with me and we were looking at the retrofitting of houses. One of the issues was that people are not aware that this is a short course. Someone who is already qualified to fit windows or plaster etc. can come back, add to their skills base over a very short timeframe and gain access to a whole other sphere of work. That is incredibly important, particularly in the retrofitting agenda, which is the one that leapt out at me. If a person has a traditional skill already, he or she can retrain in a short period of time to access this whole new economy. Lifelong learning really has to be at the heart of this year of skills as well.
I fully agree with the Deputy. With World Autism Month coming up, and Deputy Stanton has posed a question that will enable me to get into this more, we have so much more we need to do here. As a country, we have made quite a lot of progress in primary and secondary schools. There is still far too much of a cliff edge from my perspective for too many students who are neurodiverse, autistic students and others when they move from second level to third level. We have work under way but I want to challenge myself and ourselves to do more in that regard.
The Deputy is right. I remember that visit with him to WWETB. Far too often, people think training in retrofitting will be an apprenticeship or a couple of years which they could not do as they are in employment or are too busy. It is three days in many cases. In three days you can future-proof your job or your own workforce. We can use this year to get that messaging out. We cannot talk about it enough because, as the Deputy rightly says, there is a direct correlation between some of the massive societal challenges we face and those faced around the globe and the skills and the labour force we have to address those issues.
Good progress is being made on microcredentials. There is an opportunity to do more. Compared with other international regulators, Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, is leading the way on this, and I know it will be keen to continue to do so.
67. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science his views on any problems being reported surrounding the online safe pass renewals; his further views on past success rates on the in-house safe pass renewal courses versus the current pass rates on the online system now in place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15555/23]
The introduction of the online safe pass renewal has been a very constructive move. It is giving people a change to renew their safe pass at a time that suits them and without taking time away from work. Concerns have been raised with me about what appears to be a high fail rate. Has this been brought to the Minister's attention? Will he give an outline of the situation and the progress on it?
Yes, it has been brought to my attention. The Deputy is on to something and I thank him for highlighting it because it has enabled me to probe the system to try to resolve the matter. As the Deputy rightly says, this is a really important step and is something people have been looking for for ages, namely, moving this thing online and saving people time and hassle in terms of having to travel and take time off work. However, there was an issue that has had to be teased through and I will get to that in a moment.
The alternative option for the renewal of a safe pass card went live on 1 February. This option allows a candidate to book a test at a designated test centre. The provision of an alternative option complements the already successful tutor-led option. The safe pass tutor-led course differs from the online option insofar as the tutor-led option is based on assessments and in-person collaboration. This was an additional option. The test-based option is self-directed and requires candidates to revise relevant material before taking a test. Candidates can access the official questions and answers booklet for free and this contains the full 500 questions and answers for the test. They also have access to self-directed learning guides under each module and additional safety videos, toolbox talks, links to legislation and codes of practice.
Since the introduction of the online renewal system, the only issue has been the failure rate in comparison with the tutor-led model. It became apparent that there was quite a significant difference in the failure rate. This issue was indicated through SOLAS’s dedicated helpline. As the alternative safe pass renewal has rolled out, evidence shows most first-time testers did not access the question bank in the question and answer booklet in advance of taking the test, and the failure rate reflected this. Not to blame the learner, feedback showed that testers were not aware of the booklet being available. In response to this, SOLAS has now increased awareness of the material available for the online model, and it has also revised some of the questioning. Recent figures now show an increase of 12% in the pass rate for first-time testers, and an increase of 39% for second-time testers. As this is a new model, projections are that the pass rate will increase as candidates become more familiar with and interact more with self-directed learning.
The establishment of the online system was developed both due to the success of the tutor-led safe pass course and the feedback from industry of the evolving needs. Industry stakeholders were consulted during the development of the online renewal model, and this will continue closely as we implement that model.
I thank the Minister for the overview on the situation. Having the online option available to people has been a very positive and constructive move given that people can do it at their own pace, in their own time without taking time away from work. It is understandable that there would be teething issues in getting a system up and running, but I do not feel it would be right for people who are using that newer system to lose out as a result if there are teething problems and if access is not that easily available on the tutorials and so on. At the very least, people should have the opportunity of a retest without fees and without being at a loss. Will the Minister outline the steps involved in getting those issues resolved? Are the issues looking like they are finally addressed at this stage? As to the plan for further tests, are people going to be charged for these?
I am largely satisfied. I am satisfied but I always put a caveat in because this is a new system. There is an implementation process, no one should be complacent, and it needs to continue to be monitored. There are a couple of things. First, this issue was identified as a result of the SOLAS helpline. The system worked, if you like. People were ringing in about it and SOLAS identified the issue. SOLAS went back and asked what was behind the issue. It seemed this was different from attending in person. It is a different form of getting the same certificate. It seemed that a lot of the people who were taking the test online, quite frankly, had not read the questions and answers booklet for the key preparatory test. I am not blaming them. SOLAS representatives were very clear that it was not made clear or visible enough on the website. I am satisfied that is now fixed and that the full book of 500 questions and answers is available to download on the revision tab. It is strongly advised that candidates study the questions to ensure they can pass the test. There is also an optional tutorial that will be offered when they start the test to explain how to navigate and scroll through it. That is new as well.
On the issue of fees, I will have to come back to the Deputy. I will take a view from SOLAS on that. I am conscious that the online test is already an awful lot cheaper than the in-person test. These are teething problems but I am very grateful to the Deputy for highlighting them.
Just because a lot can be seen in the background on the online system and it can be seen that some people are accessing the online tools on it at this stage, is it compulsory or is the system now set up to push people towards the support tools to ensure they avail of those ahead of taking on the exam itself? Are there also options available for them to retest quickly so they can continue on with the process? The whole concept has been a very positive and constructive move.
We call this a teething issue. It is the kind of thing that could be set up with a sour taste at the start. What is a very good development should be capable of being progressed in a positive way, because it gives people the opportunity to undertake study without losing out on work and pay. We must ensure that this is a most positive experience possible for people.
I fully agree with that. It is not mandatory to go through the book, but it is very much made clear that people should do so. Looking at the website, it is quite obvious that people should do this. Equally, when people begin the test, there is an option to take a tutorial before it commences. That tutorial shows people how to navigate and scroll through the test and the questions relating to it. This is a good decision. I should say that this is an alternative as opposed to being the only show in town. Currently, 30 test centres deliver the Safe Pass renewal programme. If that way works better for some people, then it is also available. What we are talking about is a different way of receiving certification. It is going to be the way of the future and extremely handy for people. It is being sought by industry. I have received good feedback on it. Undoubtedly, however, if people are going to do the online test, they need to read the booklet of questions and answers in preparation. It is available in the revision section. SOLAS has made this extremely clear, but I will be keeping a close eye on this and I am happy to keep in touch with the Deputy on this matter.
65. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the measures he is taking to support the number of college entrants to speech and language courses in the disability and mental health sectors; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15668/23]
The limited availability of speech and language courses that are specifically focused on the disability and mental health sectors makes it difficult for prospective students to find a course to meet their interests and career goals. As a result of this limited availability and the many students applying for a small number of places, competition is fierce. This makes it difficult for students to secure places on their preferred courses. Clinical placements are also a crucial part of speech and language courses, providing students with practical experience and exposure to real-world situations. What is the Department doing to remove barriers for students and to address vacancies in the disability and mental health sectors?
Is this question being grouped?
Not that I am aware of.
I thank Deputy Dillon for the question. He has raised an important issue. We need to train more people to work in therapies. In the area of speech and language therapy, the need is acute. Equally, as the Deputy suggested, it is also important to do this in general in respect of broader therapies concerned with working with people with a disability, older people and our mental health services.
I am pleased to tell the Deputy that significant engagement is ongoing between my Department and the Departments of Health, Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and Education to develop a joined-up approach to address demand in therapeutic disciplines, including speech and language therapy. Healthcare programmes are, by their nature, complex when it comes to delivery. That is not a reason not to do it, but, obviously, there is a need to ensure availability of appropriate placements and supports. A working group, comprising representatives from the Department of Health, the HSE, CORU and the higher education sector, has been established. Its specific job is to examine how extra placements can be secured to match each extra college place we create. My understanding is that officials from the Department of Health are drafting a placement governance oversight framework to support this work. Officials from my Department participated in the interdepartmental working group that was tasked with developing an action plan for disability services. My Department will work closely with that group in this regard.
The Deputy may be aware that I asked the HEA to conduct a horizon-scanning and expression-of-interest exercise and ask our higher education institutions what more they could do in the areas of dentistry, pharmacy, medicine, nursing and veterinary medicine for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 academic years. That process will conclude very shortly. I have indicated that I want the next areas to be examined to be in the context of therapy, including speech and language therapy. I expect the HEA will be able to go out in May and do a horizon scanning exercise and ask our colleges and similar institutions what more they can do with a view to being able to significantly increase therapy places for the college year from September 2024-25. In addition, I am pleased to say I have already identified an ability to increase speech and language therapy places in Ireland by more than 20 by the start of this college year, but I do wish to do an awful lot more from September 2024 and that will be the purpose of the expression of interest exercise in May.
I thank the Minister for his response. I know he is committed to addressing the challenges and shortage in our therapies and practitioner sector around health. As a former Minister for Health, he will be acutely aware of the challenges being faced within the different sectors. It has been widely reported that access to speech and language therapy is essential. I know of one community in Achill that does not have access to these services for young children. We must ensure that child developmental difficulties do not worsen in the early stages, so access to these services is crucially important. We must also increase the number of clinical placements available in different sectors. The Minister talked about dentistry and other practitioner areas, but also included must be the disability and mental health sectors to ensure students get the necessary experience in this area. It is good to hear that 20 additional placements will be available for the coming year. I ask that this provision be even further expanded in 2024. Can the Minister give a commitment that additional work will be done, that this horizon-scanning exercise will happen in May and that it will be reported on without any further delays?
I can. I am very committed to ensuring this happens concerning therapy areas, which includes speech and language therapy. I am working closely with the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, on this issue. I think we have an opportunity to take a step-change approach to the size of the education sector in respect of the health service and our therapy provision. Without going back into former Minister for Health mode, this is just one part of the challenge. Other reforms are needed. I have seen the positive impact in my constituency of having speech and language therapy in reach in schools. There are other things to do in this regard, including recruitment and retention and the delivery of services, but clearly having enough people trained is an important thing.
In preparing to answer the Deputy's question, I explored the situation currently regarding speech and language therapy undergraduate enrolments. We have 376 spaces now on speech and language therapy courses. I expect this figure to increase by somewhere between 20 and 25 more places this September. I also expect to have a multi-annual plan for September 2024 and September 2025, working with the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth and the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, to significantly increase further the number of places. I will keep in touch with the Deputy on this issue because I know he has an interest in it.
The solution to this problem is to provide readily available access to courses in speech and language for students. This would give parents access to early interventions through the HSE and not cause those parents to have to fork out hundreds if not thousands of euro privately for these services. I talked to the Irish Association of Speech and Language Therapists, which recognises that communication is a basic human right and that we must address this anomaly. We are seeing many more diagnoses of people who have mild forms of disability and are impaired in this regard. These concerns have been expressed. From listening to the Minister today, it is evident that the issue is being addressed. I look forward to further progress in this regard.
This issue can very much be addressed. One other area I will throw into the mix is that I think we need to challenge the education sector in respect of how it can address this issue in different and flexible ways. We have, for example, medicine and graduate entry medicine courses. We also have an ability for people to do nursing through further education and progress from there in nursing. We also have different grades, for example, in psychology. We now have an assistant psychology grade as well. I think we have a speech and language therapist assistant grade too. Obviously, and I am very clear on this, we need to increase the number of speech and language therapy training places in Ireland significantly. I am not in any way deviating from this. I also think, though, that we need to come at this issue from all angles in respect of how we can ensure that anybody in Ireland who wishes to play a role in helping a child or adult with a disability will have many different and diverse ways of helping. We must ensure as well that there are better linkages and pathways between further and higher education and different models of delivery so that people who are middle-aged, for example, with a couple of children or caring for an elderly parent, unable to go back to university full time will have other ways of trying to get back into the workforce to play their part as well. This should also be a part of the conversation. I will keep in touch with the Deputy.
66. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he will provide an update on the ongoing PhD review; if it will include wider stakeholder engagement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15594/23]
I would like to get an update from the Minister concerning the ongoing PhD review and I ask him to make a statement on the matter.
The quality of our researchers is fundamental to the quality of our research system and its collaboration with partners in industry and policymakers, both in Ireland and abroad. Under pillar 4 of our national research and innovation strategy, Impact 2030, we have committed to ensuring that our researchers have the right skills and development and career opportunities to ensure they can make their maximum contribution, whether in academia, industry, the public sector or elsewhere.
As part of advancing this commitment I announced the national review of State supports for PhD researchers referred to by the Deputy. I was very pleased to appoint Dr. Andrea Johnson and Mr. David Cagney as co-chairs for the review. I met the co-chairs at the end of February where they provided an update on progress of the review. The independent review is very much under way. The two co-chairs are approaching completion of a what has been a very comprehensive round of stakeholder consultations and written submissions. I think they have had engagements with more than 30 stakeholder organisations. They have received more than 750 public submissions. The review report will consider a range of critical issues including stipend levels and the consistency of supports across the system. As I said, they have been meeting with more than 30 stakeholder organisations to understand their perspectives. This included an all-day in-person workshop held on 8 March with researcher representative organisations. They held an online consultation process which received over 750 submissions and closed on 13 March. I expect the co-chairs to conclude their work and send their report to me in the coming weeks. We will then consider the report, bring it to the Government, publish it, and crucially try to make progress on it in the Estimates. The Deputy will know the terms of reference of the review which are quite broad. The review it to look at stipends but it will look at more than stipends. It will look at stipend levels; the consistency and equity of current arrangements; their status as students and the implications, particularly for things like maternity leave and sick leave; also the impact on the funding of research programmes, visa requirements, and graduate outcomes.
I thank the Minister and it is rare inside here that many of my supplementary questions have already been answered so I appreciate the response. It was very thorough. We all know the importance of this review and going forward there will be so many PhD researchers engaged on issues relating to climate change, energy, public health policy, and so on in the next few years. It is very welcome the Minister has commenced this review and again I appreciate the response. As I said, many of the supplementary questions have already been answered but could the Minister clarify when he expects to have any recommendations? I do not expect him to have a crystal ball but will he give an indication, whether quarter 1, quarter 2, quarter 3 or whatever he can, in terms of when those recommendations might be expected and when they will be implemented?
I expect to receive the report in and around April. When it will be published will depend on how long it takes me to consider it and bring it to the Government and I want to publish it. My intention is to receive the report in due time to be able to consider it, bring it to Government, and then to try to start making progress on its recommendations in the Estimates process. We did make some progress in the last Estimates, but not nearly enough, in terms of increasing the stipends for Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, and the Irish Research Council, IRC. One of the complexities, as I said earlier, is that there are around 10,000 annual doctoral enrolments in Ireland. Approximately 3,000 of those are funded through SFI. The IRC gets a stipend of €18,500 that is now being increased to €19,000. There are approximately 2,000 doctoral enrolments funded directly by the higher education institutions. They receive different ranges of stipends. There are approximately 4,000 categorised as self-funding, that could be funded through industry, and around 1,000 from other various sources outside of my Department such as the Health Research Board, European programmes, and Teagasc. One of the things that would be really interesting for the review to do would be to look at the lack of consistency and equity and to give recommendations in that regard.
Táim sásta leis an bhfreagra sin agus sásta bogadh ar aghaidh go ceist No. 68.
68. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he is confident that apprenticeship training will help meet the targets of the national retrofitting scheme; if he will provide an update on a recent report on the analysis of skills for residential construction and retrofitting 2023 to 2030; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15593/23]
I would like to ask the Minister about the apprenticeship training programme and if he thinks it will meet the targets of the national retrofitting scheme; and if he will provide an update on the recent report on the analysis of skills for residential construction and retrofitting?
Apprenticeship training in the construction sector provides the skills required for a modern workforce, but crucially helps to support the Government in the delivery of our retrofitting targets set out in the national retrofit plan. As we learned yesterday in this House retrofitting a house is not a new house, but it is a very important thing to do in terms of the climate. Retrofitting-related education and training is delivered across the tertiary system. Nearly zero energy building, NZEB, standards are being embedded in the curricula of relevant craft apprenticeship programmes as they are revalidated. As we revalidate all of our apprenticeship programmes the curriculum is altered to ensure the nearly zero energy building standards are embedded as a core component of any apprenticeship, as appropriate. We now have provided retrofitting and NZEB courses and centres in Laois, Offaly, Waterford and Wexford, and Limerick and Clare education and training boards, ETBs. There are now courses also being delivered through Cork ETB, and Mayo, Sligo and Leitrim ETB, with further provision this year and in 2024. I think we will be in Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan's county for the opening of Cork retrofitting centre in the coming months. Courses are suitable for qualified and experienced learners, and those who are new to the area. Once an apprentice has completed their apprenticeship and the day-long NZEB fundamentals course, they can participate in an NZEB course specific to their trade to further enhance their professional development. The key message we need to get out here is that for a person already working in the trades and working in construction these retrofitting courses are extraordinarily short. A course lasting a number of days will provide the retrofitting training needed.
My Department published the report on the analysis of skills for residential, construction and retrofitting and the corresponding action plan in December. The report indicates a need for 50,831 new entrants into the sector. That is not just in further education that is in higher education also so includes professionals, engineers, architects, craft, operative and other trade routes to meet the housing and retrofitting targets outlined in Housing for All and the national retrofit plan. It is important to recognise that this requirement and the labour needs to support retrofitting generally extend well beyond apprenticeships. There is a significant requirement for general operatives and those with qualifications through shorter courses to meet national retrofitting targets. Increasing construction sector productivity will also be an important part of this and the widespread adoption of modern methods of construction also has a crucial role to play in achieving these targets.
As for productivity in the construction sector I do not think there will be a shortage of demand there. I think it was in the 2021 to 2022 figures that there was a slight drop of 300 apprenticeships nationally. I suppose I have a straight question, how does the Minister account for that? Going forward into this year does he envisage that the figure will improve on that and make amends for that? Regarding retrofitting, it is very frustrating for public representatives that when we do refer people to the Sustainable Energy Authority Of Ireland, SEAI, programme we are told there are waiting lists of two and maybe three years in some cases. This is something that needs to be addressed urgently. The more and more apprentices that we can get into the system the better. It is through the Minister's own good office but I believe, and I hate to use the word snobbery, that we have successfully started to break down those barriers of the traditional educational snobbery when it came to viewing apprenticeships as a way of life. I would like the Minister to continue his good work of challenging those preconceptions when he is out and about in third level institutions.
I thank the Deputy and I absolutely will because it is key for the mental health and well-being of young people that we do not have such a narrow definition of success. I think the Central Applications Office, CAO, process and league tables and that sort of stuff have brought us to that in recent years. It is also key for societal good because so much of what we need to progress around housing, climate and other areas will require more people becoming apprentices, doing traineeships, and going into further education and training as well. I want to assure the Deputy that as regards retrofitting, we need 17,000 more people working in retrofitting. We have the capacity through the education sector to meet that target. What we now need to do is whet the demand. There are encouraging signs that more people are coming forward and we have to get the message out to employers that they can actually release their staff for a very small number of days and access these free retrofitting courses and future-proof their workplaces.
Regarding apprenticeship numbers, the honest answer to the question is 2021 was a bumper year as an adjustment to Covid-19 and there was a lot of pent-up demand. The actual figures in 2022 were very significantly up on all the pre-Covid-19 years as well and figures for this year show the first two months are 30% higher in terms of apprenticeship registrations than in 2022.
If I may, I have one last supplementary question for the Minister. It is outside of the question I asked about retrofitting. I was recently out canvassing in a small village in Cork called Grenagh. I met an apprentice mechanic on the door and we had a good chat about how he had left a previous college course and decided he would do this apprenticeship. As he told me about the difficulties he had and getting back on to that course he portrayed to me a big difference between for example in his case a potential mechanics' stipend versus somebody doing an electrician's apprenticeship. I am wondering if any review is envisaged for those kinds of payments or stipends for people in those fields? I am not saying that one is more important than the other but we need to provide an acceptable amount of money that will encourage or attract people to the various fields. We are quite short in the area of mechanics so I am wondering if any review is due on that also.
"Yes" is the short answer and I recently met the public sector trade unions, and indeed other trade unions representing apprentices to consider how best to take this forward. These rates were traditionally set by industry so, not to pass the buck but there is not a direct role from my Department in terms of setting the rates.
However, there are significant considerations around, for example, the minimum wage and how it relates to our apprentices. That is an issue I am looking at. We will work with our colleagues in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the unions and industry representatives to see if we can come up with a way forward. We want more people to become apprentices. The Deputy is right in that there is a strong focus on crafts, but there are many other skills to develop and diverse apprenticeships we need people to take up. I would like to see a greater consistency in the funding and financial support available.
71. Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he will provide for a veterinary school to be located in the University of Limerick; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15779/23]
Will the Minister share with the House any plans he has to develop a veterinary school at the University of Limerick? Will he make a statement on that matter?
I thank the Deputy for the question. As she will be aware, the HEA is close to concluding a process to identify where additional capacity could be built in the higher education sector in a number of key areas, including veterinary medicine. As part of the process, the HEA is examining opportunities for new programme provision as well as the expansion of current programmes, and will determine a final list of options, which I expect to receive shortly. The HEA appointed an expert advisory panel to review new programme proposals. The panel included representatives from the Veterinary Council of Ireland, the statutory body responsible for the regulation of veterinary medicine in Ireland, and the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine.
The Deputy will understand that before making any determinations regarding where a new school or additional places might go, my Department needs to receive that HEA report and consider the options and recommendations arising from it. On receiving recommendations from the HEA, which I expect to receive shortly, I will engage with my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, to consider how best to take this forward.
The process is independent. There has been a lot interest and competition from different parts of the country to host the new veterinary school. However, I have yet to receive the recommendations of the HEA and I want to respect the fact that it is an independent process. It would, therefore, be inappropriate for me to comment on any particular institution. It is great that there is so much interest and that we have gone beyond the point that it is all about one veterinary school. There is now an acceptance that we need to expand in this space. It is utterly wrong that so many Irish students are going abroad, often to parts of eastern Europe, to study veterinary medicine. We can do more and better here.
I am also conscious of regional issues in the context of this matter. I am conscious of the importance of having enough vets to work with larger animals, farm animals and the agricultural sector. As a Deputy and Minister, I regularly hear about that requirement. We will get the report shortly and that will tell us how Limerick has done as part of the process.
I thank the Minister for his response and for all the information he has outlined. I appreciate what he has said about the independent process and waiting until the report arrives. For the past five decades, veterinary education in Ireland has been delivered in the one school in UCD. It does not reflect the wider picture. As the Minister mentioned, the school is too small and the course is highly competitive. There is very little scope to expand the number of available places at present. Only one in four vets who are registered in Ireland was educated in the veterinary school in UCD. The other 75% were educated abroad. As I speak, approximately 500 Irish students are studying to become vets in eastern Europe because they cannot get a place here.
According to 2020 figures from the Central Statistics Office, CSO, there were nearly 6,000 cattle farmers, 605 sheep farmers, 40 pig farmers and 250 people farming poultry in my constituency in Clare. It is important that the veterinary school is brought to the region. I met with the team and examined the proposal, which seems excellent. The proposal accounts for cross-Border education, which is the way forward for all of our universities and colleges.
I thank the Minister for that update. We eagerly await the HEA recommendations on this matter. I am a bit concerned that we might start reinventing the wheel. The facts are there. Some 500 Irish students are outside the country studying veterinary medicine at the moment. It is important not to go backwards but to go forwards. We need this issue to be addressed as soon as possible. We need a new veterinary school. The situation cannot be tweaked. We also need an all-island approach. We need an institution that has the capacity to deliver what we need in terms of food security and large animals, and to meet demand across the western seaboard and elsewhere. We must ensure the higher education institution that is chosen has the capacity to attract the world-class expertise that can be attracted to a veterinary school. I look forward to the HEA recommendations immediately after Easter. We must get going on this and get it sorted.
I agree with Deputy Conway-Walsh that we need more capacity. If I did not believe that, we would not have included veterinary medicine in the review. We need more capacity. She is also right that whichever institution is selected, or wherever additional places might be made available, we need institutions that can deliver. The key to that is the role of the Veterinary Council of Ireland, which is the regulator. My Department can provide places but the educational offering must satisfy the needs of the industry and the professional body. That is the role of the Veterinary Council of Ireland, and I am pleased it is involved.
The Deputies are right that there are far too many students going abroad to study veterinary medicine. Until recently, people would have told me there were enough places for the study of veterinary medicine in Ireland while all these students are going abroad. The note I have, which was sourced from media reports, suggests that 208 Irish students are enrolled in the veterinary medicine master's programme at the Warsaw University of Life Sciences and 78 Irish veterinary students are enrolled at the Wrocaw University of Environmental and Life Sciences in south-west Poland. The total number of Irish veterinary students in Poland is in or around 300. Slovakia has attracted some students and Budapest has approximately 190 Irish veterinary students. I expect to receive the report very shortly. We will work our way through it with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, and I am happy to update the House when I receive it.
We also need uniform accreditation across the island. That is important.
I share the Deputy's view.
I recently attended a community engagement with the ESB in Kilkee at which the board laid out its plans for future developments in the Green Atlantic project at Moneypoint, and potential offshore development in the Shannon Estuary. I am proud of the part that west Clare will play in the just transition and I thank the ESB for sharing its exciting plans. The most important thing is that when these developments are greenlit, we will keep the jobs in the local community, as was the case as far back as the building of Moneypoint. I am seeking a commitment from the Minister that he will work with the universities and further education institutions in the region to ensure they are adequately resourced so we can have as many fitting technician, maintenance and engineering jobs as possible as a result of this local development. The west is very much awake, and nowhere is that more true than on the beautiful west coast of Clare. I am constantly hearing from young people in the area that what they want is a sustainable career that will allow them to come home and build a life in their communities when they graduate.
After County Wicklow, west Clare is one of the most beautiful parts of our country. I take the Deputy's point. I also take the point about the importance of our regional and technological universities. One of the reasons we have put such a focus on making sure we have university capacity outside of the big cities is for balanced regional development and to provide the opportunity for local communities to try to harness the potential of relatively new industries, new jobs and where that will bring us in the future. I am conscious that in the Deputy's county, Ennis is now a university town. County Clare is now a university county, which we could not have said a number of years ago. We need now to ensure we work with the regional and technological universities to ensure they are providing the courses to equip the workers who may be required for offshore renewable energy work. I am pleased to say that work is under way in that regard, both with our technological universities and ETBs. My Department is supporting a number of initiatives to meet the skills needs for the green transition, including through springboard courses and the human capital initiative. I will send the Deputy a note on the issue.
79. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science given the recent recognition by the Minister for Health that Ireland needs to approximately double the number of healthcare professionals it is training, the steps that are being taken to deliver increased provision of healthcare education; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15732/23]
The Minister has partially discussed this issue. My question is related to the link-up between the demands in the health services and higher education, higher educational professionals and the training that is necessary. As a former Minister for Health, the Minister will understand the enormous gaps that exist. Money is being wasted in places such as Achill Island, where, as the Minister of State, Deputy Calleary, can verify, we have paid nearly €1 million on locum GPs because we do not have the GPs in place to serve the whole area. It is not only about the waste, it is also about the missed opportunities and the risks to people's lives.
I thank the Deputy.
We touched on this question earlier. The Minister for Health and I are doing a scanning exercise to see how we can radically increase the size of the health service from an education point of view. We updated the Cabinet committee on health on that on Monday. The Minister for Health has arrived here just on cue. I expect to be able to bring a joint proposal with the Minister for Health to Cabinet in the coming weeks to see how we can expand particularly in 2024, 2025 and beyond. There is potential to do much more and the HEA expression of interest process has indicated that. We will formally receive that report along with the veterinary one in the coming weeks.
