Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 30 Mar 2023

Vol. 1036 No. 3

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Disability Services

David Stanton

Ceist:

6. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth further to the Order of Business and Questions on Promised Legislation debate of 21 March 2023, if he will outline the way young adults with disabilities, in particular those with intellectual disabilities, can access additional personal assistance support specifically to travel to training centres and workshops in a post-second-level setting; the funding streams that can be used for this purpose; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15772/23]

David Stanton

Ceist:

19. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the way his Department is providing assistance to young adults with disabilities, in particular those with intellectual disabilities, to travel to training centres and workshops; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15771/23]

Deputy David Stanton

I am raising this question on behalf of a wonderful, young and fun-loving woman who has Down's syndrome. She is just about to finish second-level education, where she had a great experience and for which she had transport and so on. She is now going on to Cork city from quite a distance away and transport is an issue. She is very vulnerable. In some cases, she has to change buses and she cannot do that. Her parents are working. The HSE has no funding to provide support and neither has the Cope Foundation. Perhaps the Minister will tell us what help he can provide in this instance.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 19 together.

I thank the Deputy. The case he has outlined brings to mind a similar case in my constituency. The HSE provides specialist disability services, including day services and rehabilitative training, to people with disabilities who require such services. People with intellectual disabilities form the majority of service users who are supported by these services.

While day service funding does not include transport, some transport supports are provided by the HSE or funded agencies on a discretionary basis, and a variety of transport solutions are pursued in different community healthcare organisation, CHO, areas. These include travel training to enable public transport to be used, where appropriate, local transport such as Local Link, private bus transport and taxis, and some service providers providing transport where capacity exists.

In general, day service users are in receipt of disability allowance and are automatically entitled to the free travel pass. The HSE has been working with the National Transport Authority, NTA, on the issue of transport to HSE day services, through the Open Routes project. Open Routes is based on the idea that transport to HSE services such as day services would be best served by accessible local public transport such as Local Link, transporting people to their day services, but also serving the wider local community with enhanced public transport provision.

This approach is being piloted in Leitrim. The NTA advises that the integrated pilot project was developed in close collaboration with the HSE, with a revised network that is designed to meet the needs of mainstream public transport users as well as the transport needs of passengers with disabilities and those accessing healthcare services in the county. This pilot project has been in operation for more than a year. To date, all feedback on the pilot from stakeholders such as the HSE, individual day centres, external stakeholders and passengers has been very positive. In addition to the positive feedback, passenger numbers on regular rural services have grown considerably since the introduction of the revised Transport for Ireland, TFI, Local Link network for County Leitrim. This model could be applied in other parts of the country, with the NTA leading on this and working closely with local partners such as the HSE. The NTA and HSE are continuing to progress this work.

At a national level, under the national disability inclusion strategy, the Department of Transport has responsibility for the continued development of accessibility and availability of accessible public transport. To develop proposals for better co-ordination of transport and mobility supports for people with disabilities, a transport working group was established, co-ordinated by my Department and chaired by my colleague the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. The outcomes of the work of the group will provide valuable evidence for future policy development, including the successor strategy to the national disability inclusion strategy. The report was published last month and is available on my Department's website.

On personal assistance, the HSE provides a range of assisted living services, including personal assistant, PA, services to support individuals to maximise their capacity to live full and independent lives. This includes support with accessing transport, depending on a person’s assessed needs. Services are accessed through an application process or through referrals from public health nurses or other community-based staff.

Deputy David Stanton

I thank the Minister for his response. I have read the transport report he mentioned. That report acknowledges inequality of access to such transport provision. The two questions focused on young people with intellectual disabilities. I acknowledge that considerable work has been done across the country for people with disabilities accessing transport. I ask the Minister to zero in on people like the fabulous young lady with Down's syndrome whom I mentioned. I am sure he will agree that she has a right to attend third-level education. Perhaps this should come under the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. She cannot go on a public transport bus because she is very vulnerable. She is innocent. She is fantastic and is loved by her parents. She needs to get to her place of further education but she cannot. Last week the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, told me in the Dáil that a PA route is a solution, and perhaps it is. Will the Minister agree to look into this? Can we provide PA services so that this young woman has an escort to travel with her on the bus to ensure she arrives at her place of training safely?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

It is a goal of the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and mine to increase the number of PA hours available across the country. PA hours are designed to allow a person with a physical or intellectual disability to live as full a life as possible. Based on how the Deputy described the situation his constituent is facing, her ability to live what has been a very fulfilling life so far with her experience at second level is now being impacted by the difficulty with travel to her third-level facility. The work we are doing in trying to get more PA hours is important there. The pilot in Leitrim is designed specifically for people with disabilities. It recognises the particular challenges a person with a disability using public transport has and the particular supports he or she needs.

Deputy David Stanton

I bring the Minister back to the issue of intellectual disability. He has not used that term yet and this is the focus here. This particular young woman has that challenge. She is very vulnerable. Physically she is fine. She loves life, loves fun and loves learning, but she cannot get from her home to her place of education safely, especially if it means changing buses or trains. Her parents want to know what will happen in September when she wants to go with her friends to this new centre. She cannot travel at the moment. The HSE has informed us it has no funding for this transport, nor have the Cope Foundation and others in Cork. As the Minister said, it is done on a discretionary basis, which is hit or miss. That is not good enough. Will the Minister commit to looking at this again before September to see if he can provide funding to the HSE, the Cope Foundation and-or other agencies to ensure a girl like Orla can achieve her potential and go to her place of further education.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Before I call the Minister, two other Members want to come in.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

I thank Deputy Stanton for raising the issue. We constantly talk about making places of employment and educational facilities disability friendly. We need an holistic response that goes beyond the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. Earlier this week I spoke to the Minister for Social Protection. I have no doubt I will speak again to the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. We do not have the pieces regarding further education and personal assistants, who have terrible work conditions, which is an issue that needs to be rectified. We need flexibility with all the grant schemes, such as reasonable accommodations in the workplace and travel assistance. It is about facilitating people to be all they can be. Everyone in society will benefit from this. We are either serious about this or we are not.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

In support of Deputy Stanton and to dovetail with his question, I formally ask the Minister to consider visiting the Down's syndrome facility in Ballincollig, Field of Dreams, where he will meet absolutely amazing people who have issues with access to public transport and transport on a personalised basis. I extend the invitation to the Minister specifically to visit that facility in Ballincollig which does amazing work. The people are absolutely amazing. It has what I call a market garden facility which sells excellent produce into the local market. If the Minister were to hear first hand from people about their challenges and the challenges of core funding, I think he would be very impressed by what they have to offer there.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am conscious the Minister has only one minute to reply, but Deputy Stanton tabled the question.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I apologise to Deputy Stanton if my answer gave the impression I was excluding persons with intellectual disabilities; I am absolutely not. It is vital they are entitled to be able to avail of the services through education, further education and employment. They need to be supported regarding transport. I will speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, about this particular issue.

I agree with Deputy Ó Murchú about the involvement of all Departments. My Department has a co-ordinating role, but we cannot provide public transport to everyone or provide education to everyone. Ours is a co-ordinating role and that is very much the role the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, assists with.

I thank Deputy Sherlock for his invitation which I will certainly consider. No doubt it would be useful to meet people. From my own constituency, even in a nice urban area like Dublin 15, I am well aware of the real problems persons with disabilities have, particularly in a situation like the one Deputy Stanton described.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

On the way out of Dublin for the day, the Minister should come down to Cork and we will show him.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

That is very kind of the Deputy. The issue of someone with an intellectual disability who needs to change buses or trains is as big a challenge in Blanchardstown as it is anywhere in Cork East. I appreciate that and I will consider it.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Can we write to him to invite him?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Before moving on, I have no prior notification of substitutions. It is just a general point. I know Deputy Gino Kenny is taking questions for Deputy Bríd Smith. We finally found out that the Deputy gave notification. It puts pressure on the staff in that regard. I do not know what the hiccup is, but the information on substitutions is not getting through to us.

Deputy Gino Kenny

I am sorry about that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We got confirmation about Deputy Kenny's substitution.

Deputy Gino Kenny

I am sorry about that. I will address that later on.

Disability Services

Bríd Smith

Ceist:

7. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the measures his Department is taking to inform all public bodies of their immediate obligations under the convention to prioritise disabled persons' organisations in all consultations affecting disabled people; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15766/23]

Deputy Gino Kenny

My question to the Minister is about what his Department is doing to inform all public bodies of their immediate obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, CRPD, to prioritise disabled people's organisations, DPOs, in all consultations affecting disabled people.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

The UNCRPD requires states to actively involve people with disabilities and their representative organisations in the development and monitoring of law and policy. This includes organisations of people with disabilities, also known as disabled persons' organisations. These are organisations that are led by and have a majority membership of people with disabilities.

While my Department funds and supports a number of structures in relation to consultation obligations, engaging people with disabilities and their representative organisations is a responsibility that all Departments and agencies share. The recent Participation Matters report published by the National Disability Authority, NDA, provides important and timely guidance across government to ensure disabled people are meaningfully engaged in public decision-making.

Consultation and participation obligations are something that I, as Minister, am particularly cognisant of, and I have sought to embed those core principles of the convention in my Department's legislative programme. The Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) (Amendment) Act 2022 advances a number of key measures for further UNCRPD compliance, including providing for consultation between the director of the Decision Support Service, DSS, and persons with disabilities, including their representative organisations in the development of a code of practice.

In addition, the disability participation and consultation network, or DPCN, was established in late 2020 with funding from my Department to act as a standing consultation mechanism through which people with disabilities, including DPOs and the wider disability community, could be engaged in consultative processes across government. Many Departments have since engaged with the DPCN. A review of the DPCN model is being conducted by the NDA with a view to identifying any improvements that may need to be made to it.

Furthermore, a number of DPOs are represented on the disability stakeholder group, DSG, which is now in its sixth iteration. The DSG has been involved most recently in monitoring the implementation of the national disability inclusion strategy, and in that capacity members of the DSG participated in the disability consultative committees of a range of Departments.

Deputy Gino Kenny

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive response. The UNCRPD was ratified about five years ago in this Parliament, and I am sure the Minister agrees it is a very good convention. It is rights-based and it has living with a disability at the heart of it. We must continue the dialogue with that group of people and the groups advocating on their behalf. It is very important they have a say and that the approach is a rights-based one. Service providers and those who advocate for people with a disability do great work. There should be more intervention with DPOs. At the moment, only a limited number of organisations in the State are led by DPOs, which is out of kilter with the aspirations of the convention.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

That dialogue is especially important. In my constituency we have an excellent organisation that is both a service provider and DPO, the Blanchardstown Centre for Independent Living. There is a network around the country. I have always found it to be a great sounding board in terms of being able to meet with it, talk to people with disabilities, and have engagement on legislation or policies I am working on in my Department.

Ireland has to report to the overseeing body for the UNCRPD on how we are doing as a country in terms of DPOs. We have submitted our first report. Because of Covid, there has been a long delay in countries being brought to Geneva to be accountable for their particular report. I have gone through two of those reports for the UN convention on human rights and the Convention on the Rights of the Child. They were really useful in terms of getting feedback from the United Nations experts on how Ireland is responding to those conventions. I hope before the end of my term we will get an opportunity to be reviewed on our compliance with the UNCRPD, including on DPOs.

Deputy Gino Kenny

I again thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. I want to get his thoughts on the ratification of the optional protocol. When the UNCRPD was ratified some years ago, this was omitted, which I think was a big mistake. Many groups, including those advocating for people with a disability, have said its omission by the Government was a big mistake. Does the Minister have plans to ratify the optional protocol during his tenure?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

It is certainly a goal of the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and mine that we would see ratification of the optional protocol. Ireland has a legal position that it does not sign up to conventions where it feels its domestic law is not ready to comply with them yet. One of the big blockages to ratifying the optional protocol is that wardship was still in place. As Deputy Kenny knows, we recently passed the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) (Amendment) Act 2022, and we will be taking steps to remove wardship and establish the DSS in the very near future. The Attorney General is currently looking at whether there are any other legislative issues that need to be addressed prior to ratification. I look forward to getting that report from the Attorney General soon. It is the goal of the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and my goal to see the optional protocol ratified but I cannot give the Deputy a clear timeline today.

Ukraine War

Alan Dillon

Ceist:

8. Deputy Alan Dillon asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the improvements his Department has implemented to improve payments to hotels offering accommodation to refugees; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15666/23]

Deputy Alan Dillon

Hotels throughout the country have played a central role in assisting the Government on the accommodation of thousands of Ukrainian refugees, along with international protection applicants. However, I know a number of hoteliers who are still owed large sums of money by the Department, which has accumulated in recent months. This is having a disastrous effect on their cash flow and it cannot be sustained. What improvements have been introduced by the Minister on the delivery of payments to hoteliers?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Deputy Dillon has engaged with me directly in respect of a number of hotels in his constituency. Since the outbreak of the war in Ukraine one year ago, my Department has worked intensively as part of the cross-government response to the Ukraine crisis. The unprecedented demand for accommodation and, by association, the level of transactions involved is significant. With more than 750 contractors paid monthly, the payments process is an operation of considerable scale. The Department is obliged to ensure invoices are correct and, while some are straightforward, many require queries to the provider and additional documentation to confirm what is owed.

I acknowledge that due to the quantum involved, some providers are experiencing delays in receiving payment. The Department is mindful of the impact this has on the providers themselves. We have been proactive in implementing a number of measures to reduce the backlog substantially. In terms of what we have done, the number of staff in the payments area of the Department has been doubled since the start of the year, and this includes the reassignment of 13 staff from other parts of the Department to the payments unit. We have now received five staff from an external body, KOSI, who have been on board since 6 March, with further personnel resources coming from that particular organisation as well. We have also secured four individuals from Pobal, the State body, specifically to address queries. The provision of the extra staff is having an impact. The total value of all payments made to 20 March this year is €202 million. The number of payments made between February and March of this year has doubled. We are going to continue to deliver further increases. On average, our payments and finance team is now processing approximately €30 million worth of payments every week. This has risen, but it will rise further because we have brought additional staff on board. We are also looking at outsourcing and automating a number of processes as well that, up to this point, have been done on a personal basis.

Deputy Alan Dillon

I thank the Minister for his reply. It is welcome to hear that additional resources have been allocated to his Department in order to ensure that these payments can be made more swiftly. It is also positive to hear about the automated process. Some accommodation providers should receive their payments via an automated system. If contracts are being paid monthly, that should be automated in the context of the invoices submitted. It is difficult for many businesses to have to wait five months for payment of significant sums of money, never mind trying to survive in the current cost-of-living and inflationary crisis. We are in the opening phase of the tourism season. Any delays to payments or invoices could force hotel owners not to renew their contracts, which would put Government in a precarious position in relation to accommodation of refugees. Will the Minister give a commitment that these payments will not be delayed in the coming months?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

There have been delays. This has caused problems for hoteliers and other people who are providing serviced accommodation and doing so much to support the Government’s effort. That is why we have put a focus on this in terms of getting external resources. I have also been clear within the Department. We have had to move people and to stop other work that we would like to be doing. Such is the importance of this issue that I have directed that be done and that staff be moved. We will continue to facilitate that to make sure we can reduce and eliminate that backlog and make payments in time.

On automation, we will do as much as we can. Very large sums of money are being paid out - €200 million already at the start of this year - so there has to be some oversight from the Committee of Public Accounts and the like. We in the Department in our accountancy role have to satisfy ourselves we are paying for the right thing. There has to be some element of oversight but we are taking all steps possible to truncate the process.

Deputy Alan Dillon

I will touch on the long-term strategic plan to accommodate refugees, and Government’s plans. We had the key stakeholders from the tourism and hospitality sector before the Oireachtas committee yesterday. Tourism operators cannot be asked to be the primary accommodation providers to the detriment of the broader industry. Currently, 32% of tourism beds have been given over to Government for non-tourism purposes. This will have a knock-on effect on downstream tourism businesses, such as restaurants, attractions and inbound operators. We need a more balanced approach to housing refugees, including the use of vacant dwellings, unused buildings and state institutions. There is a huge opportunity there. The Minister referred to 200 modular units being built to house 800 Ukrainians. We need ten times more. We need over 2,000 modular units. I ask for a broader approach to this. When will a strategic plan be published to ensure such an approach?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I recognise the important role the hotel and wider serviced accommodation sector provides in meeting needs we never anticipated in the context of a war. It is an issue that the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media, Deputy Catherine Martin, has raised with me regularly. We are looking at bringing forth other elements of accommodation. It is 700 modular homes, not 200, and will provide 2,800 places when completed. We are also looking at a quicker build modular, something which may not last as long. Those are pod-style homes. There is the refurbishment scheme run by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. There is the pledged accommodation scheme run by my Department and the Red Cross and the subsequent one by the local authorities. That accommodates 1,500 or 1,600 people, which is almost one quarter of the Ukrainians here. There are alternatives but I recognise the particular pressures on the tourism sector at the moment.

Early Childhood Care and Education

Seán Sherlock

Ceist:

9. Deputy Sean Sherlock asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the number of staff who will be impacted by new wage agreements in early years education. [15717/23]

Deputy Sean Sherlock

What have been the benefits and the number of people affected by the implementation of the employment regulation order, ERO? How many have benefitted from the new wage structures?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

The Deputy and I have spoken about this issue for as long as I have been in this role and I think both of us are of the belief that the level of pay for early years educators and school-age childcare practitioners should reflect the value of their work for children, families, society and the economy.

The State is not the employer and does not set the pay and conditions for employees in early learning and childcare services. However, there is now through the joint labour committee, JLC, process a formal mechanism established by which employer and employee representatives can negotiate pay rates in this sector.

Last September, the first ERO for early years services came into effect, providing minimum hourly rates of pay for different roles, including higher minimum rates for those in leadership roles and those with graduate qualifications, thus establishing a wage structure for staff for the first time. The ERO applies to all who are in direct contact with children in early learning and care and school-age childcare services. In total, the order applies to more than 26,000 staff. While some staff already earned more than the minimum rates, we believe the ERO improved pay for over 70% of those 26,000 staff in the sector.

This historic achievement was achieved through the core funding investment my Department secured, which supports service providers in meeting the additional costs resulting from the ERO, while also providing for a freeze on parental fees and assisting services with financial sustainability.

In budget 2023, I announced the core funding allocation will increase by €28 million in year two and signalled that €4 million of that allocation will support the removal of the three-year experience rule for graduate premiums, subject to the amendment of the current ERO. The allocation of the remaining €24 million will be informed by the emerging data from the first year of funding, but could potentially support further increases in minimum rates of pay across the sector if the JLC agreed to amend an ERO for the year.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Perversely, the raising of standards of living for people working in the sector has had a negative impact on those providing community services under the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme. I have been contacted by one such provider of long standing who tells me the increase in wages has had a serious impact on her core funding, such that her ability to pay everybody equally in her service is impacted. Will the Minister consider a review or survey of early years providers - ECCE schemes in particular - to measure the impact of increases in the core rates? Those increases are vital but have a negative impact on the core funding of some providers.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

We are undertaking a review, announced in December last year, of small sessional ECCE-only services. An issue had been raised that they felt they had not been fully supported by core funding. The data our Department was looking at said otherwise but there was a disagreement. We brought in an independent organisation. I was disappointed by the take-up and the number of services who went into the process. Services said there was an issue, we provided a mechanism to look at it and about 17 services have engaged with it. The independent organisation will undertake a detailed look at their books to get an understanding of whether there are particular pressures small sessional-only ECCE services are under. That information can help us inform year two of core funding.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

I welcome that. I was not aware of it. If that is the position and if I have a case of a sessional service where there is an impact on core funding and it has not engaged with the independent process, is it possible for me to refer that directly in at this late stage?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

The process is close to over but if Deputy Sherlock wants to give me information for my own decision-making processes that is fine. I think it is too late to join the process that was established. It started in January and we will get the interim report soon. If the Deputy wants to give me information I will be happy to take it from him because it is relevant to my own decision-making process.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

We are within the time and I have another question.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Sherlock took me by surprise with his brevity. He may make his point.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

That has never been said before.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

This service has a long-standing fantastic reputation with very genuine people and is community minded. If I may ask on behalf of this particular service, if at all possible will the Minister continue to engage with me on it? It is reflective of many other services that may not have come into the Minister's process. For the record, I acknowledge the Minister's nod of assent in response.

Question No. 10 taken with Written Answers.

Disability Services

Paul McAuliffe

Ceist:

11. Deputy Paul McAuliffe asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the current vacancies within the children's disability network teams in CHO 9, Dublin; the number of posts assigned to this team; the current status of the vacant posts; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15745/23]

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

The CDNTs have been a controversial reorganisation of services for parents of children with disabilities. Unfortunately we have a significant level of vacancy and this is having a service impact for these children. Will the Minister outline to the House the steps we are taking to try to improve this service provision and tackle the vacancy rates?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

As Deputy McAuliffe knows, CHO 9 also covers my area. The children's disability network teams in CHO 9 were fully established in late September 2021, with 12 CDNTs in place across the CHO. There are currently 283 posts assigned across the CDNTs in CHO 9. This is the whole-time equivalent allocation for the area. Figures up to last month indicate approximately 194 posts were filled across the CDNTs. While funding has been allocated to fill vacancies, the vacancy rate throughout the CHO is 33%.

At present, there are significant challenges, which we discussed earlier, in recruiting and retaining staff in the healthcare sector, particularly with regard to the therapy professionals required in children’s disability services. This is leading to vacant posts in CDNTs throughout the country. Despite this, the CDNTs in CHO 9 have increased their caseload by 654 children since reconfiguration in late 2021.

The HSE disability services, along with the lead agencies, in CHO 9 are running a targeted international recruitment campaign for therapists and interviews are ongoing. Concurrently, the CHO has undertaken to increase administrative support to all the CDNTs, to enable existing clinical staff to devote more of their time directly to children and families.

The HSE is also taking measures nationally to encourage recruitment and retention of staff in CDNTs. These measures include targeted national and international recruitment to include an agreed relocation allowance where appropriate, apprentice and sponsorship programmes for therapy grades, employment of graduates as therapy assistants as they await CORU registration, and expansion of therapy assistants in the system with the HSE supporting individuals to return to education to qualify as therapists.

The HSE is also driving a number of initiatives to reduce waiting times for children and families and providing the support they so urgently need, such as sourcing therapy assessments and interventions externally via private service providers.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

I thank the Minister. Much of the information he has given me he has also provided in reply to other parliamentary questions and I thank him for it. I do not think there is anybody in the House who believes that the current level of service provision is acceptable. We have a fantastic group of parents in Ballymun and Finglas who have established a peer support group. People often come to my constituency office with a diagnosis for the first time and their experience of the assessment process, the diagnosis and the plan for treatment and therapies is sparse to say the least. People are told that their allocation of hours for treatment and therapies has been used up by the assessment process in that year and they must wait until the following year. Often they are handed very medical and technical diagnoses. People are never sat down for an explanation of what autism might be and what their condition might be. The anxiety is significant. We need to put these posts in place because these children desperately need a better service.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank Deputy McAuliffe. He is absolutely right that it is deeply concerning. It is deeply concerning for me as a constituency Deputy to know these figures. On Monday we had a good discussion at the Cabinet committee on health about the issue and longer term solutions for greater recruitment of staff, particularly opening up more places in third level institutions on courses to do with occupational therapy, speech and language therapy, physiotherapy and psychology.

As Deputy McAuliffe knows, my colleague the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and I have been working with the HSE on the delivery of the progressing disability services roadmap. This is an indication of how we can bring improvements in the short to medium term throughout the system to issues of retention and recruitment, which are very important. What is also important is recognition that in many places at present the relationship between parents and the HSE or relevant service provider has broken down badly. This needs to be addressed. This is not just about getting people into places. There is a wider trust issue that has built up. We will work very closely with Bernard Gloster, the new chief executive of the HSE, in order to see what we can do to start to rebuild it. These basic concerns of parents are also extremely important.

Deputy Paul McAuliffe

I thank the Minister. In the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and the Minister we have two people who fully understand the problem and who want to make a change. Recruitment is a challenge throughout this and other sectors. We see advertisements on the sides of buses looking for bus drivers. I was at a community employment recruitment fair yesterday. We know that recruitment is an issue. I welcome the steps taken to go abroad. There does seem to be some capacity in the private sector. I am loath to lean on the private sector when we should be building capacity in the public sector but we have to find solutions for these children as 30% is a significant number. I understand that in Finglas the vacancy rate is 50%. It has to be addressed and we should try where we can to seek capacity to address it. It is not a long-term solution, which is to build up the service. The group in Ballymun and Finglas and I would very much appreciate anything the Minister can do.

Deputy Marc Ó Cathasaigh

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for this opportunity. This is an issue that has been consistently raised at the committees on education and autism. The staffing issues are a big problem. Does the Minister have the pertinent statistics for CHO 5 where I am? As Deputy McAuliffe said, it is not just per CHO. There are individual areas within each CHO, such as west Waterford, where it has been extremely difficult to recruit and retain people to the CDNTs. They are of pivotal importance. This is a huge stumbling block for parents. They get past the initial assessment of needs and think they will access the services their child requires but then find the CDNTs are not adequately staffed and the services are not being provided.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

We spoke about CDNTs earlier in a question I raised. To give the Minister a further perspective on CHO 4, which is my area, it has a caseload of 555 children and the number of staff available is 13.5%. There is a vacancy rate of 38%. The number of therapeutic hours available according to a report issued recently stands at 5,815 per annum. The end result is that a mere 10.4 hours are available per child per year. This is completely and utterly unsustainable no matter what way we look at it. We are trying to be of assistance to the Minister in trying to tackle this issue. Ultimately it is about children and young adults. Until such time as the issues of recruitment, retention and the restoration of parity of esteem and pay parity between section 39 organisations and the HSE are dealt with we will continue to have these challenges.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I thank the Deputies. I understand the very real focus this issue has for so many Deputies. The numbers that Deputy Ó Cathasaigh requested for his CHO are deeply concerning. Of 192 positions that are provided 111 are filled at present with 81 unfilled. This is a 42% vacancy rate. It is even higher than what we discussed earlier and it is deeply disturbing. It is having a very real impact on children and on their parents and their level of worry.

I agree with Deputy McAuliffe in that I do not like relying on the private sector. It should be a question of building up State capacity. At the same time, however, when issues are in as much a crisis as we have now, we must look at all elements, especially in terms of the provision of assessments to get that element done. We are going to have to talk about that element of assessment. As we know, the court case last year had a very significant impact. A new standard operating procedure is being brought forward at the moment. I hope that can bridge some of that gap, but the issue of ensuring the availability of assessment does not impact on the delivery of therapies is something with which we will have to grapple.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Speaking of young students, I welcome all the young students in the Gallery. Fáilte roimh anseo.

Questions Nos. 12 and 13 taken with Written Answers.

Child and Family Agency

Kathleen Funchion

Ceist:

14. Deputy Kathleen Funchion asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will confirm the number of complaints made to Tusla's Tell Us complaints portal in 2021, 2022 and to date in 2023; what the most common complaint was; how these complaints were dealt with; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15393/23]

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

My question is a little bit similar to what we were discussing earlier with regard to St. John Ambulance Ireland. Can the Minister confirm the number of complaints made to Tusla's Tell Us complaints portal in 2021, 2022 and to date in 2023? What was the most common complaint? How were they dealt with?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, tries to ensure the best outcome for children, families, individuals and communities by listening to feedback and complaints through its Tell Us portal, which is available to all. In 2021, there were 598 complaints, in 2022, there were 749 and in 2023 to date, there have been 201 complaints. To note, in 2021, Tusla received 73,000 referrals and in 2022, it received 82,000 referrals. Tusla provides this data publicly in its annual reports, including a breakdown of the number and categories of complaints.

The complaint process has four stages. At stage 1, Tusla aims for a local resolution, where at all possible. Key performance indicator targets in its current corporate plan aim to improve the complaints resolved in this way by 15%. Tusla has met and exceeded these targets for 2021 and 2022 and is on target to exceed the 2023 target. In 2021, 49% of complaints were resolved at stage 1 and 62% were resolved during 2022. At stage 2, unresolved complaints are referred to a complaints officer who informally investigates. The complainant is given a report with the decision and recommendations. At stage 3, the complainant can seek a review by a complaint review officer who, if unsatisfied, will review and can provide any amendments or additions to the recommendations, if indicated by the review findings. If a complainant remains dissatisfied at stage 4, he or she can seek an independent review from the Office of the Ombudsman or the Ombudsman for Children's Office at that stage or at that point during the complaint process. Tusla promotes the constant improvement of its complaint handling and has developed specific training for staff in that regard, and monitors complaint data on a monthly basis.

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

This question arises from records released under the Freedom of Information Act, which show that HIQA was quite concerned over the way in which the Child and Family Agency processed and investigated allegations and complaints. Several of these complaints received by HIQA related to Tusla's management of child protection allegations and safeguarding concerns. Concerns have also been raised about the quality of care, including care planning, communication, governance and management. At the root of many of these complaints is probably the fact that so many social workers are often involved with one particular case. A young person or child can have a social worker who might change and then change again. Then, we know that many cases do not even have an assigned social worker, so that is also an issue. Obviously, we talk a lot about the early years. Consistency of care equals quality care. It is the same in Tusla for children in care. I know there is an issue with the retention of social workers, but we need to try to tackle that as one element of this.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Absolutely. In the first instance, with Tusla appearing before the Joint Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, of which Deputy Funchion is Chair, soon-----

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

Yes.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

-----there will perhaps be an opportunity to explore this matter directly with its representatives in more detail. I am certainly happy. As the Deputy knows, I have a quarterly meeting with Tusla. Perhaps I could raise that specific issue with HIQA at the next quarterly meeting and continue that discussion.

It is positive to see that some of these complaints are being resolved at a local basis. Obviously, there are times when complaints need to be elevated further. Of course, in a situation where even at the end of stage 4 of the Tusla process there is not satisfaction, the issue can be raised with the Ombudsman for Children's office, which, as the Deputy knows, is a statutorily independent office that is very vigorous in terms of pursuing issues like this.

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

We have an excellent Ombudsman for Children in Dr. Niall Muldoon, and the office deals very adequately with many complaints. We do not want to see a situation where it is getting to that stage, however. Barnardos also expressed concerns that if people are unhappy with the response they receive from State agencies, they would have the opportunity to register those concerns. I agree that it is good that some complaints are getting resolved. It is not that we want a situation where complaints are being made, but it is good that people would feel free to do so.

There is a concern around Tusla. Whenever any parents hear the word "Tusla", they think the worst. I deal regularly with parents, as I am sure many Deputies do, regarding the 20-day school letter. People panic about that because it is a letter that comes from Tusla. It is, therefore, good if people have the freedom to make those complaints and do not feel there will be any negative repercussions for them. We need to look, and maybe it is something we will also examine at committee, at the wider area of child protection and safeguarding and seeing how we can strengthen that.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

It is very important that people feel free to make those complaints. As the Deputy knows, whenever there is an issue in terms of the engagement of Tusla with the relationship between a parent and child, it does create an element of stress. The fact that there are a growing number of complaints means that people feel that even if they have an issue, they need not worry about retaliation or whatever. They should feel the systems are robust enough to allow them to make a complaint and get their issue sorted.

The Deputy rightly made the point that we have issues in terms of social workers, and just like we are working on it in terms of therapists for the CDNTs we are working to try to retain and recruit more social workers. While that is happening, there will be parents who feel like that, particularly if their child has moved between a number of social workers. We all know building that relationship is so important. It is absolutely legitimate that parents would flag their concerns. We do have a reasonably robust process in place at the moment.

Questions No. 15 and 16 taken with Written Answers.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We will manage one more question, although not in its entirety and not for the whole six and a half minutes. I call Deputy Sherlock.

Early Childhood Care and Education

Seán Sherlock

Ceist:

17. Deputy Sean Sherlock asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the number of childcare providers that have exited the ECCE scheme since 2022. [15716/23]

Deputy Sean Sherlock

How many childcare providers have exited the ECCE scheme since 2022?

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

As the Deputy knows, the ECCE programme provides free universal preschool care to children in the eligible age range. The programme is provided for three hours per day, five days per week over 38 weeks each year. The programme year runs from the end of August to the following June in line with the primary school year. Data provided by Pobal, which administrates the ECCE programme on behalf of my Department, shows that of the services offering the ECCE programme at the end of the 2021-22 programme year, 44 did not continue to do so in 2022-23. It is important to note, though, that there has been a net increase of 67 services offering the ECCE programme this programme year, as new services began offering the ECCE programme in 2022-23. The number of children expected to register on the 2022-23 ECCE programme is 109,000. That is very similar to the number of children who registered on the 2021-22 programme, which was 107,700.

Deputy Sean Sherlock

Notwithstanding those figures, does the Minister acknowledge that fact that more and more providers now are not able to provide services because there is a recruitment of staff issue? I am aware of one situation in my own neck of the woods in north Cork. One provider contacted me to say she simply cannot hire additional staff and that then has a knock-on effect. The effect is reduced ECCE hours as a consequence of that. We also note the fact that in Dublin's north-east inner city, there is a serious issue with regard to the lack of availability of early years education. This has been highlighted by the Young People at Risk subgroup of the north-east inner city task force. It continuously highlights the fact that there are a serious lack of preschool places in Dublin's north-east inner city. This is also reflective of my own neck of the woods in Cork, however. I am sure it is happening throughout the country.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Kathleen Funchion)

We will just have time for the Minister's reply.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

I would like to have more time because there is a good bit in there. In last year's budget, we put in place €250 million in core funding. The purpose of this new money is to support services to allow them to pay their staff better and deal with a wider range of financial issues they encounter.

All services, including ECCE-only services, receive that money. I know that small sessional services have flagged concerns about how much they benefitted from core funding. We saw that even the small services received an extra €30 million but in order to further address those concerns, we have undertaken this review, looking at only those small sessional services. The information we get from that will inform the decision regarding how the extra money we got for ECCE core funding next year is directed.