Vol. 1041 No. 2
15. Deputy Paul McAuliffe asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he agrees that without appropriate regulation, the increased usage of artificial intelligence, AI, technologies poses potential risks to workers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31386/23]
What steps or proposals, if any, does the Government have to regulate AI? I know the State generally does not stick its nose into technological advancements. However, because this is such a precarious and dangerous form of technology that needs to be carefully managed, I would like to know whether there are proposals within the EU or this State to regulate it.
The draft EU AI Act will set out harmonised rules for the design, development, placement on the market and use of AI systems in the Union. The Act will ensure the protection of fundamental rights and user safety as well as build trust in the development and uptake of AI, thereby enhancing EU investment and innovation. The proposal aims to address the risks generated by specific uses of AI through a set of complementary, proportionate and flexible rules. Ireland very much welcomes the development of the AI Act and the progress that is being made at Council and at the European Parliament to advance this important Act. Given that AI has evolved significantly in the past few months, it is important that this regulation is flexible and future-proofed in order to ensure that it continues to protect the safety and fundamental rights of the individual while also ensuring that innovation for good continues in this area.
The European Parliament agreed its approach by plenary vote on 14 June. Officials in my Department are examining the text and consulting with relevant stakeholders to refine Ireland's position on the agreed text. We are supportive of measures that provide clarity and reassurance to all stakeholders engaged in this complex and evolving area, particularly measures that help ensure a level playing field in Europe. We are aware that there are still matters that require more detailed discussion and this is a priority for my Department in the coming weeks and months. It is already clear from the first trilogue meeting that some issues, such as an agreed definition of AI, will be more difficult to resolve than others. However, given how quickly this technology is evolving, it is clear that there is a willingness among all parties to move forward and reach agreement on this regulation by the end of 2023 or very early in 2024.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
Final agreement on the Act is expected by late 2023 or very early into 2024. Existing law also applies in the context of AI, so all of the legal protections for workers are still available but the EU AI Act will add an additional layer of protection where AI tools are deployed.
The national AI strategy, AI - Here for Good, was launched in July 2021 and set out a vision that Ireland would be an international leader in using AI to the benefit of our population through a people-centred and ethical approach to AI development, adoption and use. Much progress has been made since then in preparing for AI, including by putting appropriate safeguards in place.
Of course, as with previous technological advances, changes to the world of work are to be expected but it is likely that much of the disruption caused by AI will result in changes to job roles, tasks and distribution rather than actual job losses. Indeed, a recent March 2023 OECD study on the impact of AI on the workplace found that AI users were more than four times as likely to say that AI had improved working conditions as to say that AI had worsened them. The report found that while AI has automated many repetitive and dangerous tasks, it has also created new tasks. The key recommendation of the report is that the adoption of Al results in significant skill changes - not just specialised AI skills but human skills such as creativity and communication.
Last year, at the request of my Department, the expert group on future skills needs published AI Skills: A Preliminary assessment of the skills needed for the deployment, management and regulation of artificial intelligence, a review of the skills implications of AI over the next five to ten years, as well as the skills-related actions needed to realise the potential of AI. My officials are working closely with the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science to ensure the recommendations of the review are acted on.
I welcome the fact that there is such work being done in the Department on this issue. It is appropriate that it is being regulated on a European-wide basis as it would be ineffective if we were just dealing with it domestically.
As the Minister of State is aware, technology has had significant benefits for this country and the global economy and nobody is suggesting that we should stop the march of technology but when you look at the potential consequences of AI, it is important that we recognise that this is a form of technology that we cannot allow to just develop the way the market desires it to. Obviously, it will have enormous consequences in the employment sphere. I suspect very many jobs we have taken for granted may be eliminated as a result of it. That may be difficult to regulate but what we certainly have to regulate is the impact it may have on democracy in terms of trying to present images as true when they are false. Will issues like that be considered in the context of the EU AI Act? Is this an issue that deserves to be considered?
We had a very good session on AI at the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment last week. Deputy Jim O'Callaghan raised the issue of jobs being displaced. I would have a particular concern about jobs being displaced by AI. Effectively, we are talking here about a platform worker who has not necessarily been sacked but who, because of the way the algorithm works, does not get any shifts the following week. If you are not working, it is the same as being sacked. There would be no involvement of any individual to take into account the worker's circumstances in this case. There are all sorts of reasons why a worker might not turn up for work - it is easily explicable - but if we are only dealing with an algorithm, it is a case of ticking that box and the person does not get any shifts the following week. At any stage in this process where there is an impact on workers, there must be human involvement. This was something the committee discussed. This is moving very quickly. I have a concern that some of the processes are moving far slower than this technology.
As I said to Deputy O’Reilly yesterday, I invite all Deputies and Senators to come to the audiovisual room on 11 July, when Dr. Patricia Scanlon, the national AI ambassador, will answer many of these questions. Regarding the legislation, we are looking at issues like the definition of AI, enforcement and governance, biometric identification and the various foundation models. We want to regulate the threats of AI such as the threat to employment and threats to people generally but, equally, we must recognise that there are enormous opportunities here. Technologies that have become common in our daily lives were also considered threats that could bring about mass extinction of employment, but we evolved, dealt with them and put appropriate guideline regulations in place that allowed for innovation and that protected citizens, not just in the area of employment but also in other areas. What we are trying to do as a country is to get a balance. My predecessor, Deputy Troy, published our national AI strategy in 2021, which was way before this debate got to the level it has. We are ahead of the game on this and we will continue, as a country, to stay ahead of the game.
To follow on from what Deputy O’Reilly said about the threat to employment, it could have vast consequences for all types of employment. For example, in the case of lawyers who draft contracts, this could be done completely by AI in the future. People may think that it is a good development. However, it will have societal consequences we need to keep on top of. My concern is that it will result globally in the concentration of wealth in a smaller group of people as the necessity for labour to create capital is broken.
We also need to look at the consequences for democracy and the world of politics. One of the consequences of AI will be that we simply will not be able to trust or believe anything we see with our own eyes. We will see images of politicians saying things they never said and doing things they never did, so we need to protect democracy when it comes to that as well. I hope this will be contemplated in the considerations of the EU and the Department.
The protection of democracy is extremely important. We have seen rogue actors trying to influence elections. There are multiple examples of that across democracies. AI is another more advanced tool for state and non-state actors to try to intervene and affect election results. My understanding is that Art O'Leary, the head of the Electoral Commission, is very engaged with this issue in terms of trying to ensure that we do everything we can to look at international best practice in order to protect against the potential threats in the context of an election cycle. The latter will obviously get under way next year in the context of the local and European elections and will lead into the next general election.
From talking to technology companies, I am aware that there is an understanding - even in the tech sector - that the threats from AI are real. They want and need a regulated environment that can allow the benefits of AI, which are significant. Ireland has great advantages from being part of the research and innovation programmes that develop AI services. Our role needs to be to facilitate appropriate regulation to protect consumers. However, we must not try to swim against the tide and allow AI technology and innovation to happen outside the European Union, which will ultimately impact us anyway. This is about trying to keep it between the ditches by having appropriate regulation while at the same time facilitating much of the global research out of Ireland.
8. Deputy Willie O'Dea asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment what measures are being taken to make Ireland a hub for EU technology regulation. [31434/23]
Next is Deputy Lawless, who is substituting for Deputy O'Dea.
What measures are being taken to make Ireland a hub for EU technology regulation? There is a great opportunity there. We have already stepped into many areas, including data protection, but there are many other aspects we can embrace.
The national digital strategy was launched in February 2022. It restates the Government’s commitment to making Ireland a well-resourced, modern and coherent regulatory framework for digital technology. Advances have been made across many fronts in this regard. We are committing the resources needed by our regulators to operate successfully. For instance, the Government has approved an allocation of €2.7 million to my Department for 2023 to fund Coimisiún na Meán in its lead role for implementing the EU’s Digital Services Act in Ireland. This funding has allowed recruitment to be progressed for a commissioner for digital services and for other staff in order that Coimisiún na Meán has the resources available to undertake preparatory work and ensure that Ireland is fully equipped for the implementation and enforcement of the Digital Services Act by 17 February 2024, when it comes into full effect. My Department is now working to identify what resources will be needed for Coimisiún na Meán after 17 February 2024, when the Digital Services Act's full enforcement network is up and running.
I am mindful, however, that we need to avoid duplication of activity across regulators. On that basis, I am looking at assigning some functions under the Digital Services Act to regulators whose expertise can be leveraged to implement specific elements of the Act. Key to implementation of a coherent regulatory framework in Ireland has been the establishment of cross-government co-ordination structures, such as the senior officials group on digital issues, which reports to the Cabinet committee on economic recovery and investment. My Department has a central role on that group. There is also regular engagement between that senior officials group and the four main digital regulators, who are represented as the digital regulators' group.
Across Government, we continue to strongly advocate for, and seek to defend, the country-of-origin principle across digital files in our negotiations in the EU, so as to ensure regulatory certainty for business. Furthermore, as an EU member, we engage with international regulatory dialogues such as the EU-US Trade and Technology Council.
It is imperative that we continue to demonstrate Ireland’s commitment and ability to be effective digital regulators. As further EU digital regulations come into effect, we will continue to ensure that our regulators are equipped with the skills and staff needed to deliver on their specific functions and co-ordination activities to ensure that a coherent digital regulatory framework is available for businesses. In so doing, we will build Ireland’s reputation as an effective digital regulator and secure our future position as a hub for EU technology regulation.
For a long time, the digital space was an emerging and new frontier that was a bit of a wild west at one stage. Thankfully, now a multitude of regulation is coming down the track. I am thinking of the Digital Services Act, which the Minister of State mentioned, the Digital Markets Act, the Data Governance Act, the AI directive, which we discussed in the context of the previous question, and the AI liability directive that is coming hot on the heels of that. Later in 2024 or in 2025, we will have the cyber resilience Act and the European health data space. A plethora of legislation and regulation is coming from Europe, which is very welcome and overdue in some cases.
There are also opportunities for Ireland in that. We have already established ourselves as the lead regulator for data protection. That also brings benefits not just for companies in Ireland but in attracting business to Ireland because companies can benefit from that one-stop-shop framework. If we have the European regulator under one Irish roof, it strengthens the attractiveness of the proposition of Ireland as a centre of excellence and a centre to locate and create jobs for those companies, many of which are already here. We can leverage that if we can put our best foot forward as a regulatory hub.
It is definitely worth considering. In order to achieve that aim we need to put our best foot forward, particularly regarding the Digital Services Act. We are preparing to have effective and ambitious implementation of the Digital Services Act to ensure that Coimisiún na Meán has the appropriate resources. Inevitably, there will be teething problems. We need to be ready and flexible to deal with those should they arise. I acknowledge the extraordinary work of my officials in the digital unit in my Department across a range of files to ensure that Ireland is not just on top of them but ambitious in how we implement them and ambitious in taking on the role of European regulator.
I will allow a supplementary question from Deputy Ó Murchú.
The Minister of State mentioned the country-of-origin principle, which is of interest. He also mentioned other EU states. What is the attitude to that principle vis-à-vis Ireland from other member states? Are there any tensions or frictions that we should be aware of? Is that widely accepted?
On a related theme, it is important that in applying the country-of-origin principle, we should draw the benefits in every sense to avoid a brass-plate situation where a service is being booked through Ireland without the jobs to support that because the value of that could be happening elsewhere. It is in everyone's interest not only that the service be booked but also that the revenue be paid, the employment be created and the value-added activity take place here in Ireland. To be fair, I think that is largely the case, but it is something we need to be mindful of. What is the view in other EU parliaments towards us in that regard? Is there any issue with the country-of-origin principle? Will it be a challenge for us in the future?
We all understand the importance of the tech sector in Ireland. We are a major hub, not only from a European point of view but also from a global point of view. Obviously, regulation is vital. The difficulty is that there has not always been a great relationship when regulation and legislation meet technology. We just spoke about artificial intelligence. We all know there are great advantages in the medtech sector, but we also know the dangers. Some of the jobs that have been displaced in the tech sector are down to AI; it has already happened. We need to ensure we are on top of the regulation.
Based on what has happened in the past, we know the issues with cyberattacks and disinformation, particularly relating to elections. We need to get to grips with - the Digital Services Act is part of it - the algorithms that social media companies have. They are weaponised and used by state and non-state actors and are not necessarily useful. We need to get on top of this while at the same time, as the Minister, Deputy Coveney, said, needing to keep it between the ditches. We know the advantages that we have had and will have from tech in the future.
I thank both Deputies. It is good to see Deputy Ring in the Chair.
For the information of the House, the country-of-origin principle means that the business activity is regulated in the EU by the member state in which it is established. That has been a core principle of the Single Market, which came into existence 30 years ago. It goes back to the pre-digital economy. That continues to be something not just for the Single Market but also for the digital Single Market. Ireland strongly believes that companies will have the regulatory certainty they need to do their business. Citizens also need to have regulatory certainty. To uphold their rights, they need to know which national law applies and that these are dealing with that rather than having to deal with 27 different regulators.
We are strongly pushing our position regarding country of origin. It is a core aspect of the Single Market. We are continuing to engage and we have many like-minded partners at EU level in respect of this matter. We continue regular engagement, not just in Brussels but also here in Dublin, to ensure that our position on country of origin is strongly supported.
Regarding Deputy Ó Murchú's point, on a previous question we mentioned that we are now at full employment after 20 years of digital transformation. We will put the guidelines and guardrails in place to protect citizens.
Equally, we need to embrace the opportunity presented by AI, and have the ambition and confidence people in this House had 20 years ago, to embrace the kind of digital economies now central to our economy.
9. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of employment permits issued to non-EEA home care workers since December 2022; the number of applications received; the number of applications refused; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31204/23]
I ask the Minister of State about the number of employment permits issued to non-EEA home care workers since December 2022. Will he make a statement on the number of applications received and the number of applications refused?
Following constructive engagement with the home care sector on 16 December 2022, my predecessor announced changes to the employment permits system to allow home carers and care workers to become eligible for general employment permits. We know there is a lack of carers in Ireland and I am pleased that the employment permit system is able to help in this regard. This shows how responsive the work permit system can be in reacting to the needs of employers and, more importantly, people across the country. Thorough engagement led to this decision. In March 2022, a cross-departmental strategic workforce advisory group was established by the Department of Health to examine the strategic workforce challenges in publicly and privately provided front-line carer roles in home care and long-term residential care for older people.
The report from this group contained 16 recommendations spanning recruitment, pay and conditions, barriers to employment, training and professional development and sectoral reform. The report recommended that the Government enable the employment in Ireland of non-EU and non-EEA care workers in the sector. In line with this recommendation, a quota of 1,000 general employment permits for care workers and home carers was introduced.
Since the introduction of this quota, 138 permits have been granted, with 13 applications refused. The precise number of applications awaiting processing in this category cannot be determined definitively as these applications have yet to be processed and assigned an appropriate standard occupational classification. However, a manual check indicates that approximately 15 applications await processing.
I thank the Minister of State for his response. It is welcome that an additional 138 applications have been made, with a few pending. Given that the quota was 1,000, that is far below the level of demand. To be fair to the Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler, she has steadfastly fought to ensure adequate resourcing and funding in this sector. I believe there are approximately 23.5 million hours of home care provision being delivered annually. As of February this year, there are still approximately 6,000 patients who have been assessed and approved for home care provision but who are yet to receive that support from a carer. It is welcome that we have responded and taken the steps outlined by the Minister of State. Is the Government considering any additional measures to ensure that services are delivered and that those approximately 6,000 patients get the adequate provision for which they have been approved?
We are starting to stray beyond the remit of this Department. The request made to us, and the advice received, was to make sure we could provide enough permits for people outside the European Economic Area to fill those roles and complete those hours. Let us be frank here. Some 1,000 permits were made available, but only 138 have been drawn down. That is disappointing when there are people who need 6,000 hours of care across the country. We can all agree that these are the most vulnerable people in our society. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment is more than happy to work with the Department of Health or private operators. We meet them all the time. We are having an ongoing discussion about ways we can attract people to Ireland to work in this sector. We think this is a particularly good place to work. We think the roles available are well-paid and provide good conditions. They are stressful, but we are in a difficult period in our economy. On the one hand, it is brilliant that we have effective full employment, but on the other hand, it means we have a tough and tight labour market in all roles, but in particular in the care sector.
We all understand the issue with home care, and we all have constituents coming to us who, even when approved, cannot get home care. It is all about delivering for their family members in their own homes. We know the work that has been done. We know the cross-departmental strategic workforce advisory group, CDSWAG, recommendations. I know this is beyond the Minister of State's remit, but we need those delivered as soon as possible. We know there are questions about the tender figure at this point, and negotiations are ongoing. We need to ensure those pieces happen. There is talk about social protection pieces, and maybe tax breaks for someone working in the health sector who may be able to do weekend work but does not need to be absolutely crucified.
We know about those in families who are carers and the limits on their hours. All of that needs to be dealt with. I think we were talking about 138 applications and 13 refusals.
It was 138 approvals.
Yes, and 15 in play. We obviously need to look at something like a foreign recruitment drive that will be more successful than this, while accepting that accommodation and other issues have an impact.
I appreciate the response from the Minister of State, who has also outlined his disappointment about the uptake. It behoves us to look at this again, albeit that the initial quota was announced in December 2022. Seven months is not a long time, in particular in terms of how we deal with issues here. There is a pay threshold that can prove problematic for what are often relatively lower paid jobs. I am not saying I am advocating this but, given the poor uptake, is there a case for looking at the labour market needs assessment in approving these applications? I understand there is also a 50:50 rule, where 50% of the workforce in a business might have to be domestically based, and a maximum of 50% can be brought in from abroad. Is there a case to look at that?
Finally, a recent report on RTÉ Radio 1 stated that migrant workers in this space are paid anything up to 20% less in comparison to their Irish counterparts. Is there a case to look at increasing the pay and conditions for people in that sector?
There are a couple of good ideas there. I say to Deputy Ó Murchú that the Department would be more than happy to support foreign recruitment drives in any sector where we have a massive gap of talent, but in particular in this one. It has been done in the past, in the wider healthcare sector. We should all be supportive of bringing good, talented people into this country to provide vital services. On the 50:50 rule mentioned by Deputy O'Sullivan, it is important to stress that it does not refer to domestic-based workers. It states that 50% have to be from the European Union or the European Economic Area, so it is not just Irish-based or Irish naturalised citizens. The 50:50 rule is there for a good purpose. It is there for historic reasons, to make sure this system cannot be abused. There is a degree of flexibility. However, the notion that an employer setting up shop can bring in 100% of the workers from outside the European Union is of serious concern, not just to workers already here, but to the economic model.
On the pay threshold and incomes for home care support, the minimum salary starts at €30,000. It is a good starting salary. It is quite a bit above minimum wage. However, would increasing that attract more applicants into the country to fill the positions? I argue that it probably would not. We need to work more closely with the private operators, and those who have the franchises, to see how they can fill those gaps. Seven months is not that long in political terms. However, when it comes to sourcing and identifying staff, putting them in employment and bringing them over from places like India or the Philippines, seven months is not a particularly long time. This is usually a six-to-12-week process alone. I am optimistic we will see a lot more of these work permits filled through the second half of the year. It behoves all of us to pay an active part in it.
10. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the degree to which he remains satisfied foreign direct and indigenous investment continue to play a meaningful role in the development of the manufacturing and services sectors, with particular reference to the need to ensure durability and long-term confidence at home and internationally; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31613/23]
This question seeks reassurance in respect of indigenous investment and job creation, and also foreign direct investment in both the services and manufacturing sectors, with a view to ensuring we have continuity in the future.
I thank the Deputy for his question. This is a big good news story in Ireland. The Irish economy and the manufacturing and export sectors are stronger than they have ever been. Of course, there will be international disruptions at different times, but the strength, employment and tax revenue that has been created by this sector is in a very good place right now.
The Irish manufacturing and services sectors, both FDI and Irish-owned, have performed strongly and have successfully weathered a number of shocks in recent years, including Brexit, Covid and the disruption caused by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Irish exporting companies continue to perform well in global markets. Enterprise Ireland clients reported a record €32 billion in exports in 2022 with goods exports increasing by 19% in value in the first three quarters of 2022 compared to the same period in 2021, while services exports increased by 10%. Enterprise Ireland’s 2022 results detailed the creation of over 19,000 new jobs by their client companies while the total directly employed in the multinational sector in Ireland, supported by the IDA, reached over 300,000 for the first time by the end of 2022.
These record results demonstrate not only the resilience of our enterprise sector but also the strength of Ireland’s value proposition and attractive business environment which enables global companies to invest and expand successfully in Ireland. Last week's IMD ranking of Ireland as No. 2 in the developed economies of the world was also particularly encouraging.
I can assure the Deputy, however, that the Government is by no means complacent or taking our positive economic performance for granted. The White Paper on enterprise which we published last December, and which is supported by biennial implementation plans, details how we will deliver on our ambition for a vibrant, resilient, regionally balanced and sustainable economy made up of a diversified mix of leading global companies, internationally competitive Irish enterprises and thriving local businesses.
The Deputy will know that Ireland currently has full employment. The unemployment figure is the lowest it has ever been at 3.8%. Having said that, however, one will have heard reports perhaps this morning in the media of a slight weakening of the value of pharma exports out of Ireland. That is very much impacted by global trends and expenditure. I want to reassure people in the context of that data that the investment appetite within the pharma sector is very strong in Ireland at the moment. We have seen big projects this year, predominantly outside of Dublin, from companies like Eli Lilly and others which are investing hundreds of millions of euro in the Irish economy for the future. That is a very encouraging sign of where this sector is moving in the medium term.
I thank the Minister for his detailed reply. It is precisely in that respect that I am prompted to put this question because reassurance is always important whenever something appears in the media which might perhaps be a warning.
In that regard I am anxious, as I know the Minister is, that ongoing steps be taken to predict what is likely to happen in the event of the kind of warnings we heard this morning which may probably be not serious. In particular, we may need to replace the areas which may be under pressure, if they are under pressure, with alternative investment, be it from home or abroad.
We are constantly talking to multinational companies both at home and abroad. That is why I have been to the US twice this year. We went early in the year to try to get a handle on what is happening in the technology sector globally where we had seen quite a number of large tech-based multinationals in Ireland make decisions globally to reduce headcount, and that, of course, has had an impact on Ireland.
More recently I have been to the east coast of America, to New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts, which had a big focus on healthcare, med-tech and pharma. In the autumn, we will continue this and go to Chicago and other parts of the US.
Two weeks ago, I was in Germany and France meeting companies like Merck KGaA, for example, which have big investments and employ very large numbers of people in Ireland. We will continue to focus on ensuring that the Irish proposition remains competitive, robust and in tune with global trends because we are the most globalised economy in the European Union by some margin. Trends which happen outside of Ireland have an impact on the economy here, which is why we need to be so flexible in how we change to maintain competitiveness into the future.
Currently the formula is working and that is why we are seeing such a strong corporate tax take in Ireland and such strong employment numbers at the moment.
I thank the Minister again for his detailed reply. It is important, as well, to emphasise at this stage that this applies to both manufacturing and the service sectors. Every opportunity needs to be availed of to ensure that opportunities which can arise, and which could be helped to arise, in both of those sectors need to be encouraged at the same time and well in advance of any other trends we have been warned about from time to time. This is in order to provide the necessary confidence in the economy to continue to roll with the waves, as it were, and to withstand any pressure from any quarter. This is also to recognise that we have sufficiently strong export industries here which can continue to supply. We should ensure that we do not damage them in any way or impede them in their progress to do what they can do well.
It is important that we emphasise the point that the Irish economic growth story is not based just on attracting large multinational companies and helping them to grow global businesses out of Ireland. This is a very important part of the Irish economy but the mainstay of employment in Ireland is Irish SMEs and family companies across the country. We must ensure that we support them and that there is a strong enterprise-based policy coming out of Government which allows them to grow and thrive. That is the core of the Irish economy and it is strong at the moment but it needs to focus constantly on evolving, modernising and changing.
There is a big focus at the moment on both decarbonisation and digitalisation of many of those businesses. There is much grant aid, mentoring and low-cost finance available to help companies to do that.
There are also centres of excellence which the Government has invested in, like the National Institute of Bioprocessing Research and Training, NIBRT, and Advanced Manufacturing Ireland, which are there to work with multinationals and Irish companies in shared facilities which the State has invested in to ensure that we are developing through innovation some of the most advanced manufacturing practices in the world. Again, there is much interest in that, both from dynamic Irish companies and from multinationals working together.
There is a lot happening in this space but one of the advantages of being a small economy like Ireland is that one can actually change and adapt to new realities quickly, and we have been very good at that in responding to some of the global pressures and trends we have seen in recent years.
I ask the Minister to keep to the time, please, because other people must have their questions answered also.
That is a fair point.
11. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he will consider allowing partners and spouses of holders of intra-company transfer employment permits to be eligible for an employment permit in their own right in a similar way to the current eligibility of partners and spouses of holders of critical skills employment permits; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31329/23]
23. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the number of applications received by his Department for intra-company transfer employment permits in each respective year from 2018 to 2022 and to date in 2023; the number of successful applications in the same period, in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31381/23]
I ask the Minister in respect of a niche area, namely, intra-company transfers, how many applications have been made in the recent past, how many were successful, and if he would consider allowing the spouses of people who use this facility to work here also, as people can do with the critical skills visa?
The intra-company transfer permit system is designed to facilitate the transfer of senior management, key personnel or trainees of a foreign employer to its Irish branch. At present, spouses of intra-company transfer employment permit holders can move to Ireland immediately with the permit holder; however, they are not entitled to access the labour market automatically. Instead, they too must apply for a separate employment permit if offered a job that is eligible for a work permit. I am aware that there have been calls from stakeholders and from Members of the Oireachtas to make changes to these rules and I have engaged with many of my colleagues on this issue over recent weeks.
The issue of the labour market access of spouses of employment permit holders is receiving consideration and the impact of any changes is being researched at present. Officials in my Department have been in close engagement with officials in the Department of Justice on this issue as part of wider collaboration on economic migration and talent attraction.
I am aware that this is something that the Deputy himself has been very outspoken on and I always welcome his contributions in this regard. I encourage any others who have case examples where this is perhaps impeding employment in their own constituencies to come forward to the Department and submit those to either me or any of the other Ministers. Looking at barriers is key at a time of a tightened labour force where we are trying to attract the best talent to this country. The barriers are not always pay or conditions but it can be the ability to bring one's spouse or family to the country and ensure that they can have the full opportunity, and that needs to be looked at.
To the crux of the Deputy's question, there were 6,449 intra-company transfers issued between 2018 and June 2023.
The Deputy requested the details in tabular form. They will be provided in a written response, but I will give a flavour. In 2018, 918 intra-company transfer employment permits were issued, only 41 were refused and 25 applications were withdrawn. In addition, 19 intra-company transfer employment permits for trainees were issued, one was refused and two applications were withdrawn. Those kinds of numbers are consistent over the years. They go up and down, as they did during the Covid-19 pandemic, for example. Bearing in mind that it is not yet July, so far this year 873 intra-company transfer employment permits have been issued, only five have been refused and ten applications have been withdrawn and 13 intra-company transfer employment permits for training have been issued, none was refused or no applications were withdrawn. In the last full year for which we have figures, 2022, 1,876 intra-company transfer employment permits were issued, only nine were refused and 36 applications were withdrawn. Last year, the year with the highest number on record, 74 intra-company transfer employment permits for trainees were issued, none was refused and no applications were withdrawn.
I will give the Deputy the full details from 2018 to 2023 for both full permits and training permits in writing.
I thank the Minister of State for his response. The numbers are higher than I thought they might be, according to those the Minister of State has given. Will the change the Minister of State proposes, or which I hope he will propose, to allow spouses to work require primary legislation or can it be done via a statutory instrument?
Is the Minister of State aware that in recent days, Canada launched a tech talent strategy and a digital nomad strategy specifically designed to attract people of high talent to Canada? This includes the ability of spouses, dependants and partners to work at anything when they arrive. It is completely open. I have met some employers who told me that the prohibition on spouses and partners, who are often also people of talent and ability, being able to work when they get here has put high-quality people off coming here in the past. They refused to come because of that prohibition. Will the Minister of State give this urgent attention and change the rules to allow these people to also work when they arrive? He can imagine what it is like when they arrive here and are at home all day unable to work. The other available avenue is quite difficult, as the Minister of State will be aware.
A simple thing has occurred on a few occasions recently. Work permits and visas have been issued above board to an employer in respect of particular employees who may have had to move to another village or town a few miles away because of housing difficulties. Apparently the whole process has to be started again from scratch. They have to go over the whole thing from start to finish, which could take three months. It is not feasible from the point of view of either the employers or the employees and imposes hardship on them.
The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, might want to come back on this. A proposal was approved by the Cabinet recently to try to introduce much more flexibility to that process. If someone comes to Ireland on a work permit and then looks to transfer to another company, after a certain period - there are certain thresholds and so on - they should be facilitated to do that in a much more seamless way than has been the case to date. I can send the details of that to the Deputy if it is helpful.
I will reply to Deputy Stanton directly in that regard. In relation to any changes that may arise - I do not want to pre-empt that - I believe I can do so through a statutory instrument.
On the situation in Canada, I attended a meeting of the OECD in Paris yesterday. I sat beside the Canadian minister responsible for small business and employment for two days and we discussed the matter at length. Trying to secure talent in the western world is extremely difficult for all countries. It is not only a European Union phenomenon. It is the same in North America. The US has something like 10 million jobs and only 5 million candidates for them. The same is true of Canada on a smaller scale but in the same proportions. That certainly presents a huge opportunity for Ireland.
I was taken by the fact that a number of employers I have met make the obvious case that it is a barrier to bringing employees under intra-company transfer. One serious concern is that they will transfer, but there will be a huge mental health and societal impact if spouses or partners are unable to work. They are in a country where their language is not spoken. Their partners have come to do a job with a big salary and work long hours. Needless to say, after six months they just want to go home. The fact that they cannot access the workforce or cannot fundamentally be part of society is a major drain that is also a major economic drain. I will definitely take the points under advisement.
As the Minister of State acknowledged, I have been raising this issue for some time. Is he in a position to put some kind of timescale on when he will make a decision and address the issue he has just outlined, whereby not being able to work because your partner or spouse has come here under intra-company transfer is detrimental to a partner, spouse or family member? In many instances, people refuse to come here if that is the case. Will the Minister of State give a commitment to address this soon? I have been raising the issue for some time and perhaps it is time we made a decision one way or another.
The priority of the section at the moment is the overall review of the critical skills list, which has just started. I have asked officials to ensure that the moment it finishes, by the end of August, we will be able to work on this. I would like to be able to come back to the Deputy in the first week after Dáil recess with a definitive answer one way or another.
12. Deputy Louise O'Reilly asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment when the scheme for businesses impacted by kerosene price increases will go live; and if it will be expanded to businesses impacted by liquid petroleum gas and liquefied natural gas price increases. [31537/23]
When will the scheme for businesses impacted by kerosene price increases go live, and does the Minister plan to expand the scheme to businesses impacted by liquid petroleum gas and liquefied natural gas price increases?
I am glad I have time to put facts on the record on this issue. It is a good news story. We are moving it forward.
The cost of energy is a major factor, as people will be aware, in the operation of most businesses. The impact of the significant price increases experienced by businesses in 2022 and 2023, following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, was mitigated by the introduction of the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, to support companies dealing with increases in the price of metered electricity and natural gas. Following a review of the operation of TBESS, the Government agreed to the development and implementation of a scheme to extend similar supports to companies that rely on kerosene oil for heating purposes.
The development of a scheme is justified by the fact that the price of kerosene was 64% higher during the 2022 TBESS reference period than in 2021. It is intended that the kerosene scheme will provide flat rate payments to businesses to mitigate the impact of price increases during 2022. Businesses will receive banded payments based on the volume of kerosene usage during the year. We have tried to simplify the scheme so that it is much easier to apply for and the amounts are much clearer. The possibility of extending the scheme to businesses that use liquid petroleum gas, LPG, was also examined. However, available data showed that LPG prices increased by less than 20% during the TBESS reference period compared to 2021. It was therefore considered that the inclusion of LPG users in the scheme could not be justified. In order to qualify for TBESS, applicants must have seen prices increase by more than 30%. The increase in the price of LPG was not close to that so we could not justify including it. The opposite was the case for kerosene, the price of which increased by 64%.
Officials in my Department are working with Enterprise Ireland and other relevant Departments to finalise details of the kerosene scheme. The payments will be made through an extension of Enterprise Ireland. We will not do so through Revenue this time. The scheme is more or less finalised now. It is anticipated that we will shortly be in a position to notify the European Commission of the proposed scheme, as required under EU state aid law. It is intended that the scheme will be launched in September, subject to state aid approval and approval by the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform being received and as has been agreed by the Cabinet. I hope we will get it up and running at the start of September.
Approximately 22,000 companies could potentially apply.
We anticipate that we could spend somewhere between €15 million and €24 million. It depends on how many companies apply.
I welcome the simplification. The Minister will be aware Sinn Féin has raised this issue on a number of occasions. My colleagues, Deputies Conway-Walsh, Kerrane and Mairéad Farrell and others, and I have been raising this matter, so we are pleased the Government was listening and is going to act on it.
I encourage the Minister to engage with those businesses that use liquefied petroleum gas and liquefied natural gas and discuss the challenges they are facing. I understand the numbers may not stack up in terms of the other schemes but they are still under a fair amount of pressure. It would be a good opportunity for the Minister and the officials in his Department to hear directly from them. I know they feel aggrieved at being excluded from the scheme notwithstanding the reasons the Minister has given. As I said, we welcome the fact the Government has acted on a suggestion we made. We also welcome the fact it is going to be simplified because, as the Minister knows, there were issues with some of the other schemes, which were overly complicated for people to access. That news is welcome.
