Seán Haughey
Ceist:1. Deputy Seán Haughey asked the Taoiseach for a report on his attendance at the third EU-CELAC summit in Brussels in July 2023. [36286/23]
Ceisteanna - Questions
Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements
I attended the third summit of the EU and Community of Latin American and Caribbean States, CELAC, in Brussels on 17 and 18 July. It is co-chaired by European Council President, Charles Michel, and the President of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Ralph Gonsalves. It was also the first meeting at leaders’ level between the regions in eight years.
At the summit, leaders discussed ways to enhance relations between us, including enhanced co-operation in multilateral forums, global peace and security, trade and investment, efforts to combat climate change and justice and security for citizens. At the end of the summit, we adopted a declaration, which was endorsed by all countries but one, and we agreed to hold summits every two years. We agreed the next summit will be held in Colombia in 2025.
On the margins, I had a bilateral meeting with Barbados Prime Minister Mia Mottley at which we discussed Ireland’s growing strategic focus on the Caribbean region and our wish to act as a partner for the Caribbean within the EU. I also informed her of our plans to establish a Caribbean office in Miami. Barbados will open an embassy in Dublin quite soon. I also met with the Costa Rican President Rodrigo Chaves Robles. We discussed our wish to further enhance bilateral engagement through our office for Central America in Mexico. We also discussed trade, migration and multilateral cooperation.
The summit also provided the opportunity for many informal exchanges with Latin American leaders, including the President of Uruguay, Luis Lacalle Pou, the Chilean President, Gabriel Boric, the Mexican Foreign Minister, Alicia Bárcena Ibarra, and the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Grenada, Joseph Andall. I also spoke with the acting Haitian President, Ariel Henry, and the Jamaican Prime Minister, Andrew Holness, at the summit dinner. In my intervention, I welcomed growing links between the regions and the importance of our shared commitment to democratic values. I stressed the importance of standing with Ukraine against a fundamental breach of the UN Charter and international law that represents a threat to all of us.
I also highlighted the 75th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the need to promote gender and LGBT+ rights, and those of indigenous peoples. Leaders signed a declaration committing to enhanced engagement on climate change, the reform of international financial structures, and the importance of working towards achieving more inclusive sustainable development.
The meeting between the EU and Latin American and Caribbean states was a welcome development. Given the current geopolitical situation, the EU needs friends at this time. The risks posed by Russia and China are something of which the EU is very much aware.
Many interesting snippets emerged from the summit last July. For example, we learned that the UK was unhappy that the final ten-page declaration contained a reference to the Islas Malvinas, or Falkland Islands, at the insistence of Argentina, so the fall-out from Brexit continues. The Irish delegation's rooms were commandeered by the Colombian, Venezuelan and Nicaraguan delegates, as well as European Council president Charles Michel, in order to hammer out an agreed wording regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine. I guess that was practical diplomacy in action.
What is the Irish position concerning the Mercosur trade deal with the EU? Trade deals are generally good for Irish companies and businesses, but I am aware of concerns in the beef and dairy sectors regarding environmental standards. We need to ensure that the same standards apply to Latin America as to the EU. In short, we need tougher environmental protections in this proposed deal.
Was there any discussion at the summit of the destruction of the Amazon rainforest? Continued deforestation of the Amazon rainforest is releasing carbon emissions and causing catastrophic biodiversity loss. The current President of Brazil, Mr. Lula da Silva, is certainly doing much more in this regard than his predecessor, President Bolsonaro. I am interested in whether this issue was addressed at the summit.
Was there any discussion at the summit regarding the drugs cartels in South America and the illegal drugs trade to Europe? As we know, this is very much in the news today in Ireland.
The EU-CELAC summit discussed global peace and security. Did the issue of the crisis in Nagorno-Karabakh come up? What is the Government's position on that? Ethnic cleansing is happening before our eyes while the authoritarian Aliyev regime remains an EU ally. Von der Leyen, the President of the European Commission, flew to Baku last year to sign an agreement to double the supply of gas from Azerbaijan to the EU, yet Aliyev was threatening as long ago as October 2020 to ethnically cleanse Armenians from the region proclaiming, "that if they do not leave our lands of their own free will, we will chase them away like dogs". Armenians understandably fear that this could escalate into a second genocide. More than a third of the population of Nagorno-Karabakh, 42,500 people, have fled following Azerbaijan's offensive last week and a ten-month blockade that caused severe shortages of food, medicine and fuel.
What is the EU or the Government doing to help the people of Nagorno-Karabakh? Will the Government advocate for the EU, including Ireland, to grant refuge to Armenians fleeing the war, as it has done for the people of Ukraine?
It does not often happen that I back up a significant amount of what has been said. On what Deputy Paul Murphy said about what is happening in Nagorno-Karabakh, we all know the issues that have happened across the board as regards genocide. This is not the first time this has happened to Armenians. We know their long history. It is vital that the Government steps up on the right side of the arguments no matter what other geopolitical considerations are in place.
I will also point out we have particular worries regarding the Mercosur deal and Brazilian beef. That goes without saying. I am fairly sure the Irish Farmers Association, IFA, will meet with Deputies later. I imagine it will also put forward its worries regarding that particular issue.
We all know the issue in respect of Latin America. It is a serious part of the drugs supply chain. Dealing with both the supply and demand end of drugs is very difficult. We know about harm reduction and it is hoped the citizens' assembly will come up something more novel than what we have operated. We saw a vital drugs haul operation that was carried out by the joint Garda and Naval Service task force, despite all the capacity difficulties they have. That is something that really needs to be addressed. The Army ranger wing was involved in what was an audacious operation. We would like to see more of that; the more the merrier. I do not think anyone would have a complaint about that. Drugs cause an absolute issue in our communities and across the board. I am interested in what conversations happened regarding that issue.
I thank the Deputies for their questions.
Regarding Deputy Haughey's questions first, it is the case that Irish delegation rooms were used for talks involving the key players trying to secure agreement on the language, particularly relating to Ukraine, although that was done entirely for logistical reasons. It just so happened we had a room free and we were near the other delegation rooms.
As the House will know, the United Kingdom is not in the European Union anymore, so it had no input into the EU-CELAC declaration.
In terms of Mercosur, the agreement, as the House will know, is designed to cement the close political and economic relations between the EU and Mercosur countries and represents a commitment to rules-based international trade. Since formal negotiations concluded, the global trade policy has changed considerably. The rise in protectionism, the economic impacts of Covid-19, the war in Ukraine and the accompanying impacts on global supply chains have demonstrated the importance of diversifying our import and export markets by securing robust and competitive trade deals with global partners. Ireland remains committed to free, fair and open trade, and forging greater economic links with the Mercosur region will assist us in our objective of market diversification. Negotiating and ratifying free trade agreements, FTAs, requires continued engagement and outreach with various stakeholders to allay underlying concerns and to ensure the FTAs agreed are balanced and consider EU priorities across all sectors.
Ireland and a number of other member states have raised concerns regarding the strength of the trade and sustainability commitments in the agreement, and discussions are ongoing between the chief negotiators from Mercosur and the EU on a joint interpretative instrument. The Government strongly encourages both sides to intensify discussions and come to an agreement during the Commission’s mandate. I do not know if that will be possible, but without a joint interpretative instrument that gives us the assurances we need on the environment and sustainability, we will not be able to support the ratification of the agreement.
Regarding the Amazon, President Lula da Silva gave us an update on the work that he has been doing to slow down the loss of the Amazon and reverse it. I think it is fair to say that he is taking a very different approach from his predecessor, one that is much more favourable to the world’s climate and biodiversity concerns.
Ireland condemns the military escalation in Nagorno-Karabakh. We are closely monitoring developments. The actions come on top of an already dire humanitarian situation following a months-long blockade that has prevented essential supplies from reaching the local population. We welcome the news of a ceasefire and we back EU calls for restraint on all sides. We hope the ceasefire will be respected and will allow a genuine dialogue to take place. However, we are concerned about a large exodus of ethnic Armenians from the region. This will require a European response. The issue was not discussed at the EU-CELAC meeting, but I expect it will be discussed at the European Political Community meeting next week, which both Azerbaijan and Armenia are likely to attend.
Just Transition
Barry Cowen
Ceist:2. Deputy Barry Cowen asked the Taoiseach his response to the NESC’s report, Just Transition in Agriculture and Land Use. [36287/23]
Aindrias Moynihan
Ceist:3. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Taoiseach for an overview of the Inequality and Well-Being Frameworks report published by the NESC, an organisation under the remit of his Department. [37571/23]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.
The National Economic and Social Council, NESC, advises me on policy issues relating to sustainable economic, social and environmental development in Ireland. The NESC report found the agriculture and land use sector can increasingly be part of the solution on climate change and biodiversity loss. It emphasised an approach that is opportunity led to enable farmers to benefit from the significant benefits of transition for rural livelihoods and recognised that transition would entail significant costs that needed to be fairly and sustainably distributed to ensure no one is left behind.
The report stresses the importance of a just transition that is based on dialogue and is inclusive, and participation underpinned by a co-ordinated approach so that it can achieve real change in a balanced, inclusive and just way. The findings of the report offer a valuable contribution to our understanding of how best to reduce emissions in the area of agriculture and land use. It outlines a series of interventions and recommendations for implementing the principles of a just transition in practice.
Regarding NESC report No. 163, entitled Inequality and Well-Being Frameworks, this report considers how Ireland’s well-being framework, adopted as part of the 2020 programme for Government, can provide a deeper understanding of inequality and disadvantage in Ireland. The report proposes the well-being framework can help identify inequalities. It focuses on the distribution of well-being across Ireland, using data that are more disaggregated on the basis of gender, age, social class, disability and ethnic background. NESC also highlights the well-being framework’s use of new data in areas such as caring, housing tenure and environment to help further pinpoint particular concerns and inequalities across Ireland and elsewhere.
The Irish well-being framework is similar to others that have been developed internationally. While few well-being frameworks have yet to be fully embedded in policy decisions, the NESC report recognises the Irish well-being framework has been strong on raising awareness of well-being and inequalities in Ireland as well as highlighting new data in these areas. The report and its findings are being examined and used by the well-being unit in my Department.
I thank the Taoiseach for his response. As we all know, the move to a low-carbon economy involves a transition across many sectors. In this instance, we are focusing specifically and momentarily on agriculture. The ambition is for the Government to align food production systems with consumer sentiment and environmental ambition. As a result of the commitments made in the programme for Government to achieve that, we have seen the climate action plan and emission reductions across Departments and various sectors, including agriculture, and we have signed up to the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, scheme with its many associated environmental elements and conditionalities.
I wish to focus on one of those elements, that being, the good agricultural and environmental condition, GAEC. On first glance, it appears to go much further than was committed to under peatlands restoration. Bord na Móna drew down approximately €100 million from the European Commission for its restoration and rewetting programme. The National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, and the Office of Public Works, OPW, also drew down funds for that practice in respect of their lands. The initial EU restoration programme was eventually tailored to meet our commitments under the rewetting programme in terms of State lands, lands owned by Coillte, etc. The programme was not envisaged as going beyond that, but it would appear there is talk in the context of the GAEC of a certain percentage of soil matter not being subject to normal farming practices as a condition of CAP. This matter needs to be clarified. I am sure the Department will do so in the coming weeks now that the issue has been highlighted to it.
The ambition behind the NESC’s report is to ensure there is dialogue and consultation across all sectors and stakeholders, ultimately leading to agreement on land use, biodiversity, just transition, farming practices, commitments on energy provision, what the agricultural sector can contribute in that regard and the funding associated with it. However, it would appear the horse has bolted in some respects and that consultation, dialogue, commitment, inclusiveness and informed decision-making are coming after the commitments we have signed up to within the GAEC under CAP. I would like the Government to reflect on this matter and respond appropriately so we can square the circle that appears to be emerging. The nitrates directive was a commitment that was signed up to on the basis that there would be improvements in water quality. In the absence of those, there is an understanding that we cannot revisit it. We must ensure that, in the meantime, we provide measures and show the progress that can be made on retaining the level of 220 kg N/ha as opposed to 170 kg N/ha, which would decimate the sector. This is notwithstanding a period within which we might be able to find new initiatives to assist those who have been hit by the initial derogation.
I wish to draw the Taoiseach’s attention to the issue of the nitrates derogation. I attended an IFA meeting just outside Dunleer approximately a month ago.
Members of the Taoiseach's party were there. The meeting was to deal with the nitrates derogation and Aine O'Connell from the IFA dairy policy executive spoke. In fairness, sometimes one can get a better quality of narrative or communication at these meetings than happens out in the wider world. There was an attempt to say water quality was very important but was impacted by the fact there was a huge increase in population. In fairness, she shut that conversation down straight away. She said we should be absolutely clear that when we talk about nitrates, this relates to cattle and farming and that we must keep our house in order and that it is an absolute necessity that rogue operators are dealt with because they do everybody a disservice. The understanding, as I said, among some of the political representatives who were there and the IFA was that there was to be some form of negotiation or at least more communication with the Commission. When the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, had a Zoom meeting and said that was it, that was part of the reason there was some shock. What was the communication between the Government and even some of its own elected representatives and, beyond that, with the IFA, if we already knew this was a done deal?
The Taoiseach, alongside the Minister, has looked to have the Commissioner over. What is the expectation in relation to that? While accepting that water quality is of the utmost importance to us, there are some disputes in relation to how this was gauged.
I want to ask the Taoiseach if he has seen the film "I, Daniel Blake". It is heartbreaking.
Is it good?
It is very good but it is a very difficult watch because it is about people with disabilities who are forced to go through medical assessments under the work capability assessment introduced by the British Tory Government. Their disabilities and inability to work is not being recognised. It is a heartbreaking and very difficult film to watch. The reason I ask is that it seems the Government is out to make this film happen in real life in Ireland by copying the Tory policy of the work capability assessment. That is the essence of the Government's proposals in relation to the disability and domiciliary care allowance by introducing a medical assessment to assess capability of work and putting people into three different tiered categories based on how much they can work. It is rooted in a fundamentally Victorian view of the deserving and undeserving poor. Either a person is fit for work or they are not. The idea of a tiered system is just about dragging people through the mill and putting huge pressure on them.
A woman, who was in touch with me, is the parent of four children, all of whom have disabilities. She also has a disability. She said that the assessment process would be dehumanising and soul-destroying to try to prove that you and your children are "disabled enough" to get the support needed.
If the Government is genuinely concerned about persons who are long-term sick, it should change the current conditions to qualify for the invalidity pension. If someone's medical condition deems them permanently incapable of working, they should be automatically entitled. If there is a real desire to help people with disabilities into the workforce, an onus should be placed on employers for real inclusion. The Government should expand illness benefit qualifying criteria to allow self-employed persons to qualify.
The issue of nitrates derogation came up. I understand the Commissioner for the Environment, Oceans and Fisheries has been invited to Ireland by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, to learn about the dairy sector. I understand he has accepted that invitation. I ask that we go further and bring the Commissioner, with the Taoiseach, if he wishes, to west Cork. It is one of the areas most impacted by the new nitrates rules, nitrates derogation and the reduction to 220kg N/ha. There has been incredible work happening in the Timoleague catchment area and 15 years of research undertaken by Teagasc, where it has shown and demonstrated that measures like low-emission spreading and soil management work in terms of reducing the amount of nitrates going into our water systems. When the Commissioner comes to Ireland, can that invitation be extended to bring him to west Cork to see the incredible work going on?
I thank the Deputies for the important issues they raised. Deputy Cowen raised the issue of peatland restoration and rewetting, the drawdown of funds and good agricultural and environmental condition, GAEC. I do not have the information to hand but I think he is correct in that the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine will want to clarify the matter in the coming weeks. I will ask for that to be done. On the general issue, I am firmly of the view, which I said when I met the IFA a few weeks ago in Limerick, that we need a better structured dialogue when it comes to climate action and land use in relation to agriculture, involving the Government, farm organisations and environmental NGOs. I will give some consideration to how that might best be done.
We have a model for industrial relations called the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, which involves unions, employers and the Government all trying to work together, making compromises and trying to implement solutions. We do not have that for climate, agriculture and biodiversity but we should. Any such structured dialogue would have to focus on identifying problems, finding workable solutions and implementing them together. No dialogue can be about delaying action on climate or biodiversity loss or enabling us to resile from international or legally-binding commitments.
In regard to nitrates, we will have to work very hard and play very smart to keep the 220kg N/ha derogation. We may be the only country that has a derogation in a few years' time. Other countries see it as a competitive advantage for us that they have to vote for and that puts us in a difficult position politically. We can defend it; our model of grass-based agriculture is different from that of other countries where it is much more intensive and indoor and not as grass-based. Going to 175 kg N/ha would be catastrophic not just for farm incomes but also the wider food industry. We have to remember that it is not just about farmers; it is also about everyone involved in the supply chain, farm-related businesses, the food industry and export revenues for the country. Therefore, there has to be a national effort to make sure that we maintain the 220kg N/ha derogation.
The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, and I have jointly invited the Commissioner for the Environment, Oceans and Fisheries, Mr. Sinkevičius, to Ireland. I do not know if he will be able to go to County Cork but we will suggest that he visit a farm somewhere in the country if we are able to work that into his programme. I am glad he accepted the invitation. I do not want to and, never have, raised expectations as to what is possible but we want to explore any flexibility that might exist in terms of timelines and other matters. I welcome that he will visit.
It is worth pointing out that the Minister probably meets him on a monthly basis at Agriculture and Fisheries Council and other meetings. The idea that he only met him by videoconference is very unfair and does not represent the level of engagement between the Minister and the Commissioner.
Deputy Paul Murphy asked if I have seen "I, Daniel Blake"; I have. I saw it when I was Minister for Social Protection. It is a very good film, by the way, and I would recommend it to anyone. It is, of course, one-sided. All of the characters in the film, or at least all of the people in receipt of benefits in the film, are very genuine and honest people who need help and have done as much as they can for themselves. There are other programmes, like "Benefits Street" and so on which show a very different picture. Of course, as is always the case, the truth lies somewhere in between. That is the real world we live in. In terms of reforming disability payments, we are not going to follow in UK model, which is all about knocking people off benefits. Our model, which is still under development, is about recognising that all disabilities are not the same and that some people need more support than others.
Climate Action Plan
Christopher O'Sullivan
Ceist:4. Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his Department’s climate action roadmap 2023. [36289/23]
Climate change is the single greatest threat facing humanity today. We must be the generation that turns the tide on climate change and biodiversity loss. The Government’s climate action plan 2023 requires public sector bodies to put in place a climate action roadmap to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 51% by 2030 and to increase the improvement in energy efficiency to 50% by 2030. The Department of the Taoiseach published our first climate action roadmap on gov.ie earlier this year.
It was developed with the support and guidance of the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland. It sets out an analysis of the Department's 2030 greenhouse gas targets and estimates a current gap of 28 tonnes of CO2 from our 2030 target of 231 tonnes, that is to say, we are 12% short.
The roadmap identifies current and planned actions to bridge that gap between now and 2030. An important part of that will be retrofit works to Government Buildings, to be undertaken as part of the OPW’s overall plan to make public buildings more efficient. The Department established a green team in 2019 which has already implemented a range of actions to reduce energy usage and Department emissions. Last year, Government Buildings took part in the Reduce Your Use campaign and reduced external lighting by 75% and heating use by 14% over the winter. The green team will oversee implementation of further actions, including extending sensor lighting as appropriate to other locations in the building, completing hand dryer replacements in bathrooms with energy efficient models, reviewing energy usage in ICT server rooms, continuing staff information and communication campaigns, rolling out climate action training to staff and ensuring widespread use of green public procurement. Separately, I have asked that the lawn in front of Government Buildings be considered for use as a wildflower meadow. The Department’s climate action roadmap will be updated annually to report on progress and incorporate new actions.
I am waiting for my mic to be turned on.
He is trying to get his head around the wildflower meadow.
I thought that was the Ceann Comhairle's idea.
That is on Leinster Lawn.
There can be more than one. Good ideas are followed.
I claim a bit of credit for it as well. I thank the Taoiseach for outlining the actions that are to be taken. It is heartening to hear his personal commitment to tackling climate change as well as investing in and supporting climate action measures. This is the first Government to put in place legally binding limits and targets and it has taken many progressive steps to tackle climate change and take climate action seriously.
What is being done to ensure school transport plays a part in reducing emissions, particularly within the transport sector? The issue of school transport, in essence, not working in many locations throughout the country was raised three or four times on questions on policy or legislation as well as during questions to the Taoiseach. The potential of taking thousands of cars off the road daily with an effective school transport system is immense. We need to grasp it. There is a review coming. I will bring this to a local level; I am not ashamed to do so. In the Ballinhassig area, which is in my constituency, more than 30 students are impacted by this issue. That is more than 20 families who have to put their children into cars. They follow the existing school buses that pass by their houses and along their roads, following them in fossil fuel cars in most instances. That is a result of the crazy second school rule and eligibility. It needs to change. If we could get those 30 cars off the road, it would be a start. It all adds up. It is death to climate change by a thousand cuts. We need to sort that issue out. Those parents and children in Ballinhassig are in desperate need of a school bus place. Providing those places would be a start. It is one of many areas throughout the country where that crisis is being faced.
Last week, there were high-profile roll-backs on environmental policies from the UK Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak. He was quickly endorsed by Donald Trump, who said Sunak was smart and climate change was a hoax. I suspect the Taoiseach would regard those politicians as the bad guys on climate while he is in the camp of the good guys. I cannot see Donald Trump having a wildflower meadow outside the White House, if he ever gets back into it. However, let us take the following facts into account. This summer, the Climate Change Advisory Council stated the pace at which the Government is implementing agreed climate policy is not acceptable, given the existential threat and impact. The Environmental Protection Agency confirmed Ireland reduced its emissions last year by just 1.9%. The agency warned that Ireland would achieve a reduction of only 29% in its greenhouse gas emissions by 2030, far short of a legally binding target of 51%. If you look at where Sunak and Trump are as one extreme and what needs to be done in society as the other extreme, is it not the case that when it comes to delivery, the Government is, in reality, closer to the Sunak side of the equation than it is to what needs to be done?
I agree with the remarks of Deputy O'Sullivan. All Deputies have spoken about school transport and the difficulties in that regard. We are all aware of anomalies that show up. Last, year it affected Annagassan in my constituency. There is still an issue relating to the Bush Post Primary School, where people are technically a fraction too close to the school and do not have a right to school transport even though it is their nearest school. Obviously, none of this makes sense as we try to make the necessary moves on climate action. We do not need to have people being forced into cars because they are not being given the choice needed.
I do not think the Taoiseach will be shocked at my revisiting the issue of communal heating systems and Carlinn Hall. We need to move from a feasibility study relating to shallow geothermal to something that improves the situation for those people who have been under the cosh in the context of ridiculous gas bills.
In the context of the real wins, there has been reference to wind power across the board. The pieces have been moved in respect of planning as there is a move from things being developer led. We await the designated maritime area plans, DMAPs, and the outworkings but we need to ensure first that we have the likes of the Maritime Area Regulatory Authority and the planning infrastructure resourced as much as possible. We cannot have hold-ups in this regard. In the case of onshore wind, there are difficulties relating to the renewable electricity support scheme, RESS, 3 auction as there is a belief there will not be enough players on board. That is a failure that needs to be addressed straight away. We can talk about being a wind superpower but if we do not get these pieces in place, it will not happen.
ActionAid recently published a report on Ireland's involvement in financing fossil fuels and environmentally damaging agribusiness in the global south. It found that investment managers registered in Ireland hold an incredible $6.2 billion in bonds and shares attributable to fossil fuels and agribusiness in the global south. The top six investments are in oil and gas companies. How is that compatible with Ireland's emissions and climate finance commitments? We cannot continue to donate paltry levels of climate finance to the global south with one hand while funnelling billions of environmentally destructive investments with the other. Will the Taoiseach commit to reviewing the Fossil Fuel Divestment Act 2018 to broaden its scope to include fossil fuel use, not just exploration, and to ensure so-called indirect investments through financial derivatives, hedge funds and so on are included? The Act needs to have a much broader scope, beyond just the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund. It should be applied to all private finance flows from the thousands of banks and funds that are based here in tax haven Ireland.
I agree with Deputy O'Sullivan. Good school transport systems certainly have a role in reducing emissions if they reduce the length and number of journeys by car. Ideally, we will have electric buses and hydrogen buses. We are very much moving to that model at the moment. I had the pleasure of visiting Wrightbus in Ballymena, which is making electric and hydrogen buses as we speak and is phasing out the production of internal combustion engine buses. It is great to see that happening on the island of Ireland. Another thing that can help reduce emissions is people going to their nearest school because they will be more likely, therefore, to be able to walk or cycle, which is the most climate-efficient way of travelling, or if they cannot do so and have to go by car, it will be a shorter journey. That needs to be borne in mind in any debate.
In terms of the general issue, the problems that people are facing with school transport are coming up all over the country and are very much being fed back to me from petitions to offices. I know that the Minister, Deputy Foley, has been apprised of the situation, which she sees, and is working hard to find solutions.
When we examine Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions, which were mentioned by some Deputies, we should also look at our emissions on a per capita basis. Ireland's population has increased considerably in the last ten or 20 years. If you look at the graph of our emissions per capita versus our total emissions, you will see that we are doing a bit better than maybe we think. Of course, with a rising population and more people, you are going to have more emissions. If our population had been stable or falling, as it is in many other countries, we would be doing much better. I am not someone who believes in preaching or self-righteousness when it comes to climate action. We are behind where we need to be in terms of the objectives we have set for ourselves. The UK is arguably doing better. They have reduced their emissions more than us, notwithstanding Prime Minister Sunak's recent policy changes. It was easier for them to do so. They had a lot of heavy industry and they were able to turn that off. It is trickier for us given the way our economy is structured. In 2017, in my very first speech as Taoiseach in this House, I said I wanted Ireland to go from being a laggard to a leader on climate. We are definitely not a laggard anymore. All of the independent bodies that do league tables and rate us and score us now accept that we are somewhere around mid-table. I want us to be a leader and I think that can be done in the years ahead.
On climate finance, I have not read the report that Deputy Murphy has referred to. I want to reiterate that we have made it a very substantial commitment to climate finance. It was made by the Tánaiste, Deputy Micheál Martin, as Taoiseach. It will be over €250 million a year, and that is a not inconsiderable contribution. Climate finance is such an important part of the solution. The system change and the revolution that are going to have to happen will have to be funded and will need bond markets. That is why Ireland can make a contribution to it. One thing that we will examine as part of the establishment of our Future Ireland fund, which is the new sovereign wealth fund that we are establishing, is a new ethical framework around what it does and does not invest in. That will, of course, have to take into account fossil fuel production. I would say, in relation to the management of private finance here in Ireland, that a lot of that is just managed here. Those funds would just be managed somewhere else. I do not think moving them offshore would actually have an appreciable benefit for the environment.
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Cuireadh an Dáil ar fionraí ar 1.53 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2.53 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 1.53 p.m. and resumed at 2.53 p.m.