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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 5 Oct 2023

Vol. 1043 No. 4

Finance (State Guarantees, International Financial Institution Funds and Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Second Stage (Resumed)

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I would like to address as many of the issues raised by Deputies as I can. I thank Sinn Féin for its support in managing the process of this Bill. I confirm my understanding that it is not legally retrospective as such, as Deputy Connolly said. The EU Council has agreed to give assistance. It allows the European Commission to raise the funds in time to dispense the funds in Ukraine. However, member states need to go through their own national processes in order to participate. In the meantime, we have not paid anything. This is about prospectively allowing that, recognising what the Commission has done in the past. Guaranteed payments may not arise, nor might interest payments if the EU budget will cover them. If Deputy Connolly wants any clarification on that, I will be more than happy to follow up with officials in greater detail. The member states guarantee would only be called in the event that Ukraine defaults on the repayment of the loans. I recognise that is an important consideration, given that we have no sight of how long this conflict may last. It is important to highlight the risk of that.

Ireland's maximum liability under the guarantee is €76 million in total. It is important to recognise that this is an ongoing conflict with very serious consequences. We must always look at the counterfactual and the concern about not participating in something of this kind, and the broader context in relation to that. It is always very important, when reflecting on a mechanism of this kind under which we are providing specific support in one area, to consider the broader context, as Deputies Connolly and Naughten have done in very broad ways. I am speaking on behalf of the Department of Finance. If I were representing the Department of Foreign Affairs, I would have a much greater capacity to respond to all the points made about the different streams and the way in which Ireland supports them. I will, however, respond to a number of them.

I agree with the points Deputy Naughten makes in relation to finance more broadly, in regard to climate finance, debt relief and the various questions about making sure there is a sustainable future for people so that they do not have to leave their home countries. Both Deputy Naughten and Deputy Connolly, and Peter Sutherland when he was UN Special Representative for International Migration, made the very obvious and clear point that people know the risks they face with migration. They know the sort of risks involved in crossing the Mediterranean and they do not do it lightly any more than you or I would do it lightly. They do it out of desperation. I more than appreciate that point being made here. It is of existential importance.

It is important for Deputies to be aware that last week we had the UN Development Programme in Dublin. It has a very strong regard for the Irish project on sustainable finance and for the Sustainable Finance Centre for Excellence, and how we combine that with our broad multilateral support for climate finance. It is because of Ireland's support for sustainable finance through the Department of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and the budget given to that from Ireland to the UN last year that the UN comes here quite as often as it does. The Under-Secretary-General was here last week. We had 40 centres of sustainable finance from around the globe meeting in Iveagh House to discuss how we can work collectively to partner public and private money to make sure that we are quickly getting funds to manage transitional risk to build out projects right across Africa and other places. Dublin has been a centre for that. Dublin is the leading issuer of environmental, social and governance standards, ESG, bonds and the financing of the transition that is essential for people's lives. I want to bring the attention of Deputies to that body of work.

I expect to see more and more engagement from the UN on that here in Dublin. Last week we signed a charter with 21 of those financial centres, which we have taken the liberty, with the UN, of calling the Dublin charter in relation to women in particular in sustainable finance. That is because we recognise that women face the burden in so many different ways but also that women are leaders and innovators in terms of setting up small businesses and trying to find ways to generate wealth and to generate their own income. Some 21 of the centres signed up last week and the others are on a path to signing up to that, in particular to make provision for finance to reach women and to do so quickly to support them in the projects that they are establishing both for their families and communities. I am happy to provide more information on that to any Deputies that wish to get it.

I also highlight that coming up in November we have climate finance week, which is a very important opportunity for Ireland to play its part in the international dialogue on sustainable and climate finance. We do need to bring those concepts closer and closer. Sustainable finance is the number one issue in my own strategy on financial services for Ireland. As I stated, we are the number one bond issuer. The reason for that is not just in terms of getting money to protect the environment but the broader sustainability and humanitarian piece that that engenders. The UN's view is that Ireland is doing very well on that and that we are a leader in terms of our skills approach to it, but I would like to see us doing a good deal better again, so I have made it a complete focus of the financial services strategy update for December and January to recognise where we are and the urgency with which we need to focus our attention even more again.

I will raise the points Deputy Naughten raised with the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, Deputy Donohoe. He is attending the International Monetary Fund, IMF, meeting next week. It is the same week as budget week, which places some constraints, but I will ask him to pick up the points Deputy Naughten raised.

I want to make sure that I cover everybody's points. The broader contextual piece also has to be recognised about Ireland's work more broadly in the UN, our work on the Security Council more broadly, and our commitment to being militarily neutral. What is even more important is that we are a state that has never had a colonial past and operates internationally with the credibility that that engenders. It is always important to recognise that we have been a postcolonial society ourselves. We are now a very well-developed society that is capable of contributing to the EU budget and to EU policy and standing with the values that that experience has imbued within us. We continue to do that. I recognise the reasons why Deputies raise these contextual points but I think it is important to sit back from a finance Bill and understand the broader context within which Ireland works and has worked internationally for many decades.

The Taoiseach, Tánaiste and others, including the Chair of the Joint Committee on European Affairs, and many Deputies from this House, have visited Ukraine. The speaker of the Ukrainian Parliament was here in Dublin. The message from our Ukrainian friends is one of relentless resilience and determination. They have asked that we continue to support them. I believe that these various supports that come via trusted international bodies form an important part of our national response. That assistance is to keep Ukraine's Government and public services going, while supporting the groundwork for the eventual recovery and rebuilding of their economy and well-being as part of the European family. Given the scale and complexity of the challenges in relation to the invasion of Ukraine, a longer term solution is needed to ensure that funding is well co-ordinated and used efficiently and that it is tied to recovery and reconstruction and to Ukraine's EU accession track. To that end the European Commission has proposed the introduction of the Ukraine facility that can cater for short-term state and recovery needs and the medium term reconstruction and modernisation of Ukraine. That facility will be financed through a special instrument: the Ukraine reserve for €50 billion, of which €33 billion is for loans and €17 billion is for grants and provisioning for these loans. While that facility is being negotiated in the context of the mid-term review of the EU's 2021 to 2027 multi-annual financial framework, its introduction is widely supported by member states. The European Investment Bank, EIB, as the EU's bank, has provided already more than €7.5 billion of financial assistance to Ukraine, including two support packages in March and July of 2022 for the immediate financial needs of Ukraine and infrastructure and municipal service costs. Currently the EIB has an important role in the wider EU response and it recently announced the establishment of the EU for Ukraine initiative and trust fund as well as €100 million in technical assistance to Ukrainian authorities. A number of member states have voluntarily contributed towards this package through the trust fund with more than €400 million, which is expected to grow further with future commitments.

In July, my Department of Finance colleague, the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, indicated to the EIB his intention to seek approval for Ireland to make a contribution of €7 million towards that trust fund. Should the Oireachtas approve this Bill, it would be the Minister's intention to use the framework to set it out and to be able to make that contribution as soon as is practicable.

Ireland has been one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine's EU accession aspirations. It is important that we back up our words with concrete actions. It is also important that we are consistent in that and in our support for democratic countries around the world in particular and in our support for democracy more broadly. It is necessary to provide continued strong financial support, which should go hand in hand with Ukraine's ongoing reform efforts in advance of EU accession.

As a first step, I ask the House to consider this Bill. I commit to taking Committee Stage in great detail. I will provide any briefings that I can personally or through my officials at any stage and to answer any and all questions. I do appreciate that we are not looking for pre-legislative scrutiny on this on this occasion but the Bill will pass through both Houses of the Oireachtas in great detail. My officials and I are available at any stage to answer any questions Deputies may have.

Question put and agreed to.
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