Financial Resolution No. 1: Mineral Oil Tax

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 have been ruled out of order as they impose a charge on the Exchequer. We move now to amendment No. 3. I am only highlighting to the House where we are at the moment. Two amendments have been ruled out of order.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Why was that?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

They were ruled out of order because they would have imposed a charge on the Exchequer. We are going to move to amendment No. 3 in the name of Deputy Pearse Doherty, but I first ask the Minister now to move the resolution.

Minister for Transport (Deputy Eamon Ryan)

I move Financial Resolution No. 1:

(1) THAT for the purposes of the tax charged by virtue of section 95 of the Finance Act 1999 (No. 2 of 1999), that Act be amended, with effect as on and from 11 October 2023, by the substitution of the following for Schedule 2 to that Act:

“SCHEDULE 2

Rates of Mineral Oil Tax

	Light Oil: Rates per 1,000 litres		Heavy Oil: Rates per 1,000 litres						Liquefied Petroleum Gas: Rates per 1,000 litres
With effect as on and from:	Petrol	Aviation gasoline	Used as a propellant	Used for air navigation	Used for private pleasure navigation	Kerosene used other than as a propellant	Fuel oil	Other heavy oil	Used as a propellant	Other liquefied petroleum gas	Vehicle gas: Rate per megawatt hour at gross calorific value
10 March 2022	€474.11	€474.11	€413.51	€413.51	€413.51	€84.84	€118.01	€120.55	€118.27	€54.68	€9.36
1 April 2022	€465.98	€465.98	€405.38	€405.38	€405.38	€84.84	€118.01	€120.55	€118.27	€54.68	€9.36
1 May 2022	€465.98	€465.98	€405.38	€405.38	€405.38	€103.83	€141.12	€111.14	€130.52	€66.93	€9.36
12 October 2022	€483.34	€483.34	€425.45	€425.45	€425.45	€103.83	€141.12	€111.14	€130.52	€66.93	€9.36
1 May 2023	€483.34	€483.34	€425.45	€425.45	€425.45	€122.83	€164.23	€131.47	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 June 2023	€532.12	€532.12	€466.10	€466.10	€466.10	€122.83	€164.23	€140.28	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 September 2023	€589.03	€589.03	€506.75	€506.75	€506.75	€122.83	€164.23	€149.09	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
11 October 2023	€606.39	€606.39	€526.83	€526.83	€526.83	€122.83	€164.23	€149.09	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 April 2024	€638.91	€638.91	€551.22	€551.22	€551.22	€122.83	€164.23	€163.96	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 May 2024	€638.91	€638.91	€551.22	€551.22	€551.22	€141.82	€187.34	€184.30	€155.01	€91.42	€10.13
1 August 2024	€671.43	€671.43	€575.61	€575.61	€575.61	€141.82	€187.34	€199.17	€155.01	€91.42	€10.13
9 October 2024	€688.78	€688.78	€595.68	€595.68	€595.68	€141.82	€187.34	€199.17	€155.01	€91.42	€10.13
1 May 2025	€688.78	€688.78	€595.68	€595.68	€595.68	€160.81	€210.45	€219.50	€167.25	€103.66	€11.48
8 October 2025	€706.14	€706.14	€615.76	€615.76	€615.76	€160.81	€210.45	€219.50	€167.25	€103.66	€11.48
1 May 2026	€706.14	€706.14	€615.76	€615.76	€615.76	€179.81	€233.57	€239.83	€179.49	€115.90	€12.84
14 October 2026	€723.49	€723.49	€635.83	€635.83	€635.83	€179.81	€233.57	€239.83	€179.49	€115.90	€12.84
1 May 2027	€723.49	€723.49	€635.83	€635.83	€635.83	€198.80	€256.68	€260.16	€191.74	€128.15	€14.20
13 October 2027	€740.85	€740.85	€655.90	€655.90	€655.90	€198.80	€256.68	€260.16	€191.74	€128.15	€14.20
1 May 2028	€740.85	€740.85	€655.90	€655.90	€655.90	€217.80	€279.79	€280.49	€203.98	€140.39	€15.56
11 October 2028	€758.21	€758.21	€675.98	€675.98	€675.98	€217.80	€279.79	€280.49	€203.98	€140.39	€15.56
1 May 2029	€758.21	€758.21	€675.98	€675.98	€675.98	€236.79	€302.90	€300.83	€216.23	€152.64	€16.91
10 October 2029	€773.25	€773.25	€693.38	€693.38	€693.38	€236.79	€302.90	€300.83	€216.23	€152.64	€16.91
1 May 2030	€773.25	€773.25	€693.38	€693.38	€693.38	€253.25	€322.93	€318.45	€226.84	€163.25	€18.09

(2) IT is hereby declared that it is expedient in the public interest that this Resolution shall have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act 1927 (No. 7 of 1927).

Financial Resolution No. 1 provides for an extension of the temporarily reduced rates of non-carbon mineral oil tax. The current rate reductions are 8 cent per litre in respect of petrol, 6 cent per litre in respect of diesel, and 3.4 cent per litre in respect of marked gas oil, MGO. These were due to expire and return to full rates on 31 October 2023. I am now, however, extending them until 31 March 2024. This financial resolution also provides for a phased restoration of these reduced rates in two stages: a restoration of half of the reduced rates on 1 April 2024, that is, 4 cent per litre for petrol, 3 cent per litre in respect of diesel, and 1.7 cent in respect of marked gas oil. These figures are VAT inclusive. The balance will then be restored on 1 August 2024. The estimated cost of this measure is €171 million. These excise rate reductions are important in the context of current energy prices in 2022. In light of the acute impact rising prices are having on households and business, the Government provided for excise rate reduction in the order of 21 cent, 16 cent and 5.4 cent per litre on petrol, diesel and MGO, respectively. These temporary reductions were due to end initially on 31 August 2022 but, following a review and the monitoring of fuel prices, were extended until February 2023, with phased restoration beginning in June this year. Prices eased earlier this year compared to highs in June 2022, which allowed for partial restorations in June and September of the initial excise rate reductions. Given recent trends in fuel prices, I believe it is appropriate not to implement on 31 October 2023 the third phase restoration of excess rates but to extend them to 31 March 2024 to ensure that consumers of petrol, petrol diesel and MGO will continue to benefit from the relief of reduced rates of non-carbon mineral oil tax.

Financial Resolution No. 2 provides for an extension in the temporary reduction in VAT on gas and electricity. At present, gas and electricity have a 9% VAT rate applied on a temporary basis until 31 October this year. This rate is due to revert to 13.5% from 1 November. This temporary reduction was one of the Government responses to the current energy crisis and its impact on the cost of living. Given the scale and duration of the energy crisis, the Government has taken the decision to extend this temporary reduction in the VAT rate on gas and electricity. The VAT rate of 9% will now be extended from 1 November this year to 31 of October 2024.

The background to this measure is that up to April 2022, Ireland had maintained a historical derogation in respect of the VAT rate on gas and electricity of 13.5%. This derogation was necessary as otherwise the standard rate of VAT of 23% would have applied. However, following lengthy negotiations, amendments to the VAT directive were signed off in the first quarter of 2022, with the changes taking effect from 5 April 2022. Under this new agreement, Annex 3 of the VAT directive has been expanded to include gas and electricity. This means that Ireland can apply a reduced rate of 9% to these products, in line with other goods and services to which a reduced rate applies. The Government made its initial decision to avail of this flexibility from 1 May 2022 and is now extending it to 31 October 2024. With respect to revenue impacts, the 12-month extension of the reduced 9% VAT rate is estimated to cost €350 million.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In the interests of clarity and to avoid confusion, Financial Resolution Nos. 1 and 2 are being taken together.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

That is most unusual.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Chief Whip put a proposal in that regard and its was decided. Amendment Nos. 3 to 6, inclusive, are being discussed together. I have a list of names here after the proposer.. I call Deputy Carthy.

Deputy Matt Carthy

I move amendment No. 3:

In Schedule 2, inserted by paragraph (1), to delete all rows from the row dated 11 October 2023, down to and including the row dated 9 October 2024 and substitute the following:

11 October 2023	€606.39	€606.39	€526.83	€526.83	€526.83	€60.00	€164.23	€149.09	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 April 2024	€638.91	€638.91	€551.22	€551.22	€551.22	€122.83	€164.23	€163.96	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 May 2024	€638.91	€638.91	€551.22	€551.22	€551.22	€122.83	€164.23	€178.83	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
1 August 2024	€654.07	€671.43	€555.53	€575.61	€575.61	€122.83	€164.23	€178.83	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36
9 October 2024	€654.07	€688.78	€555.53	€595.68	€595.68	€122.83	€164.23	€178.83	€142.76	€79.17	€9.36

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle. The allocation of time motion was taken without debate. Just to clarify, the reason we voted against the motion to extend time was because not only has the Government decided that the entire House would only have 45 minutes to discuss two financial resolutions, which is essentially the same length of time a single Minister used during the budget speeches earlier on, it also ensured that the Opposition would not even have the opportunity to put their amendments on the floor of the Dáil. Democracy, how are you?

All day, we have heard statements from the Government and pronouncements that it understands the cost-of-living pressures that are affecting families and workers across Ireland. Yet, the very first thing that will happen and the first effect that these workers and families will feel as a result of today's budget will be that fuel prices will increase after midnight.

A day after the budget with all the talk about the cost of living, the real impact on families and workers is that fuel prices will increase. This is at a time when fuel prices have already been increasing. They have been increasing for international reasons and because of market circumstances. They have also been increasing because, in September, the Government hiked the cost of petrol and diesel. If this resolution goes through for tomorrow, the Government will push ahead with another tax hike, pushing fuel prices even higher.

It shows how out of touch this Government is to the lived realities of so many people. Despite what the Minister, Deputy Ryan, might think, having a car in County Monaghan,for example, is not a luxury. It is not something that can be just discarded depending on the price or whatever else might be a factor. For so many of the people I represent their car is their only means of getting to work. For many families now, the car is the only means of getting their children to the school. This is because the Minister, once again, has overseen a catastrophe for many families in respect of school transport. When there is no accessible and affordable public transport option, as there is not for the vast majority of journeys that are taking place in counties like Monaghan, pushing up the price of fuel does nothing other than make the lives of people who are depending on their cars harder. That is the nonsensical approach this Government has taken. It is punishing people who have no other choice and the Government's intention with this resolution is to hike fuel taxes tomorrow, then hike them again in May and again next October.

Not being content with increasing the price of petrol and diesel on those occasions, from next year the Government actually also planning to increase the cost of home heating oil again. I remind the House that home heating oil is the source of heating for about a third of our population. In many rural areas, including my own constituency, it represents the heating system for about half of households. These people have no option but to use that form of heating because once again Government has made a complete hames of actually providing alternative options to those families.

The amendment Sinn Féin has put forward does two things. First, it would stop the further increases in the carbon tax tomorrow and next year, and second, it would slash home heating oil and taxes by more than 50%. It would reduce prices and support those households I referred to that rely on home heating oil. We know what the Minister will say because he has said it a million times before. He will try to pretend that these increases in carbon taxes have something to do with the environment. That is a disingenuous position for Government to take. If increasing the cost of fuel and home heating oil made people stop using them, then they would have done so if they could have over the past 12 months, given the inexorable rises they have witnessed. This is nothing to do with the environment and the Government has moved away from the suggestion that this is in any way a behavioural tax, because the evidence shows quite clearly that it is not. The Government has now changed tack and is saying that this funding is needed to pay for other environmental measures. This is also completely disingenuous because there are alternative ways, as we have shown in our alternative budget, to fund environmental and climate action measures that go way beyond what this Government has introduced and which would help those families who actually need it. Instead of people who are very wealthy getting huge grants to retrofit their homes and to purchase brand new cars, we would ensure those families who actually rely on solid fuel and home heating oil and on their cars would be given the incentives and the options to source alternatives.

I encourage the House to support this amendment to really give workers and families a break and to send a very clear message that we see the problems they face and that the Government is still missing the point entirely about the lived realities of so many of our workers and families.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Six Members have indicated that they want to speak: Deputies Mattie McGrath, Tóibín, Danny Healy Rae, O'Rourke, Nash-----

Deputy Ged Nash

On a point of order, is amendment No. 4 being taken in this tranche as well? If that is the case, would the mover of the amendment be prioritised to speak?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

No, because we are on amendment No. 3, which has been moved. People indicated for that.

Deputy Ged Nash

However, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle also indicated they would be taken together, so surely there is some latitude for the mover of the amendment to speak.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have taken the list at this point. We now have 33 minutes left so I would ask speakers to help us here a little bit. In fairness, Deputy Nash has-----

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I request that the clock be stopped because-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

No, I am not going to waste any more time. Deputy Nash, you did not indicate, I am afraid.

Deputy Ged Nash

I did. I indicated clearly.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

You indicated after the other Deputies. I would have taken it if I had seen it but the other Deputies were first in off the block in relation to addressing the first amendment. I ask for the co-operation of the Deputies in this matter.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I support the Sinn Féin amendment. Many workers are feeling hard done by. From today, the average working family will be approximately €15 per week better off. When all these increases come into place, it means nothing to those workers. I acknowledge the risk of poverty to anyone on social welfare, particularly those on disability, pensioners and one-parent families and the need for these people need to be supported. However, we simply cannot forget that it must be pay people to work. We see businesses from the smallest to the biggest looking for employees at the moment. However, it simply is not worth a candle for people to go to work because they are not being paid enough and they are being punished with taxation and all kinds of levies, especially the carbon tax. This tax has nothing to do with carbon or the environment. It is all to do with penal taxes and hitting the poorest people in the most remote areas.

As Deputy Carthy said, we cannot live in the country without a car. If any of our sons and daughters get jobs or go to college, they have to have a car. The Government has not provided the fancy public transport it has talked about. It is not there. It is fine to give reductions in fares on public transport, but what good is it to people who do not have public transport? That is the realpolitik of the issue. The Minister's ancestors are from Tipperary and he has been asked to come there and see how difficult it for people to live.

I want to re-listen to the record. According to Eurostat, this little country of ours is currently the most expensive country in the EU, with prices 46% higher than the average cost across EU. That figure is almost double the cost of living in any other country. This is shocking. That notwithstanding, the Government and the Minister believe it is right and appropriate to drive up prices further with a regressive carbon tax that disproportionately impacts on rural citizens. It is shocking. I welcome that the Minister has rowed back on some of the increases until next April, August and October. However, people live in the here and now. Home heating should not be a luxury. People have to heat their houses. Are they going to die frozen and hungry in their homes? Ireland is 40% more expensive than any other country in the EU. What planet are you on?

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

There is a serious disconnect between this Government and the average citizen in this country at the moment. The cost-of-living crisis is currently consuming most families. We have a situation where 650,000 people are in poverty in this State. A total of 280,000 people are in arrears on electricity bills while 165,000 are in arrears on their gas bills. People are losing sleep at night wondering what bill they are going to be able to pay the next day. People are living from overdraft to overdraft if they are lucky enough to be able to get an overdraft. Many people are being pushed into the hands of moneylenders, and yet we have Ministers on significantly high wages making decisions as punitive as this. There is a serious disconnect between the people the Government is meant to serve and the people who are so-called in the public service here tonight.

About a month ago, I submitted a parliamentary question in relation to this and I found out that this Government is making more on taxation on fuel than it ever did before. In the past year, this Government is quids in on tax on fuel in the jaws of a cost-of-living crisis. I listened to the Government speaking in measured tones, in sympathy with people who are suffering, and at the same time the Government is pilfering the pockets of those people with more taxes than ever before. In fact, last year the increase in the taxes on fuel exceeded the amount of money that was given back in the electricity credits. That is incredible. The Government actually took more from people than it gave back and expected to be thanked for it. In recent months we have seen an increase in excise in June, tolls increased in July, another increase in excise in September, and now carbon taxes are being increased today.

How is the Government not in touch with the cost-of-living crisis that is hurting people so many times?

The Government has an objective to get more people into electric cars but we have the most expensive electricity in the whole of Europe now. In fact, even changing into electric cars is becoming increasingly difficult. The problem I have is that there is no alternative for many people. There is no Luas from Athboy; there is no DART from Trim; there is not even a rail line from Navan, the fifth biggest town in the country at the moment. On a regular basis, bus services from Meath into Dublin are being dropped. People are in left in their dozens at bus stops with no bus to take them to Dublin because the service is being dropped and they end up late for work all the time. For regional and rural areas of Ireland, this is a punitive tax. It is not a behaviour-changing tax; it is a tax that penalises people just because of where they live.

In recent months, the price of petrol and diesel has gone back up and in the last couple of days there has been a surge in oil prices. This tax is not fair. It is not behaviour changing. It is only hurting families and I ask the Government to listen to the people it is meant to serve and not to proceed with this increase in carbon tax.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I call Deputy Danny Healy-Rae and I ask for everyone's co-operation.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae

I am glad to get this opportunity. I thank Sinn Féin for going against the carbon tax tonight. We will not talk about what happened in the past, but we are glad and we hope it will continue in this vein against the carbon tax because it is totally and absolutely unfair. We have been against it from day one. This will hurt many people at midnight tonight. It will hurt the people who are going to work. It will hurt the people who are taking children to school. It will hurt all those in the transport business. It will hurt those in the agricultural contracting business. It will hurt farmers. It will make life more miserable for all these people. We have seen the cost of fuel go up already and, yes, much of it is caused by foreign markets or whatever. It is reprehensible to think the Government is putting on a carbon tax tonight at 12 o'clock. When we came up the road today, it cost €1.83 a litre or whatever it is. It will be €1.85 and maybe more as we are going down on Thursday.

I say to the Minister that this carbon tax has nothing at all to do with reducing emissions because there are other options and he is saying that there are not. There is such a thing as hydrotreated vegetable oil, HVO. Producing this oil could help farmers and give them another enterprise to plant rapeseed and get paid for it. This option would mean a reduction in emissions of almost 90%. The good thing about it is people do not have to buy an expensive electric car. They can just pour it into the same diesel tank in their cars that they poured the diesel into this morning. It would not cost people anything extra.

The Minister has talked about the carbon tax being used for heat pumps. Fitting these heat pumps to many houses will cost €50,000. People have to pay for it upfront and they then may get a grant of €25,000. Where will hard-pressed people get that €25,000? He is giving no thought at all to that. This HVO could be poured directly into the kerosene tank with a minor adjustment to the boiler for heating people's houses. That has to be thought of. The Minister has a one-track mind and is hanging his shirt on electricity.

At the same time, the Government stopped us getting from getting another gas from the west through Shannon LNG. It is also giving no consideration to LPG which was available 50 years ago and there are no emissions at all from that. Fellows fitted them to petrol cars at that time and they can be fitted to diesel cars now with no extra cost and no savage cost. I saw an electric car out in the yard the other day and when I asked the cost of it, I was told €65,000. Who has that to pay? There is no option to buy second-hand electric cars. People do not have that kind of money to spend in rural Ireland. The Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, may want people to cycle and forget about cars altogether. What I am saying to him is that if he is in Scartaglen, is it not a nice thing to be asked to cycle into Killarney and up to Cork to go to work or in Gneeveguilla or some other place like that. That is not fair. By charging people the carbon tax, the Minister is just codding them. Anyone supporting him is trying to cod the people. This carbon tax is very unfair when fuel is so expensive.

I have a lot more to say about this, but the Government is denying the people. There is another thing and even the media up there do not print it. The batteries for electric cars are being produced by child labour in the Congo. You are denying that and at the same time you are talking about helping children. To hell with you; you are there too long. Tomorrow is too long to have you there again.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are six speakers left so I still ask for Deputies' co-operation. The next speaker is Deputy O'Rourke, followed by Deputies Nash and Michael Collins.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

I support the Sinn Féin amendment. This hike in carbon tax is a deeply regressive move. The Government has played with words and spun very significantly about the carbon tax for far too long. We need to state clearly that it is just the increases and not all of the carbon taxes that are ring-fenced. Therefore, a very significant amount of carbon tax that is raised goes into the general Exchequer; that is still the case.

This is a measure that punishes ordinary people when alternatives are not in place. The Government goes on to make the case that there are not alternatives to the carbon tax. Indeed, the Minister at his press conference today said that he spoke to Deputy Doherty in advance of the formation of this Government and asked how a Sinn Féin-led government would fund climate measures. Year after year we spell out how we would fund progressive climate measures and how we would design schemes. In contrast to the Government's budget, Sinn Féin without increasing carbon tax has proposed to do more on retrofitting, public transport and energy transformation than the Government has done.

Deputy Matt Carthy

Hear, hear.

Deputy Darren O'Rourke

We have spelled it out for the Government, but it consistently ignores it. It is interesting to draw a comparison between how it treats ordinary workers, families and people who do not have alternatives, and how it treats energy companies. We have looked at our windfall taxes which are before the Oireachtas at this point in time. Sinn Féin and others in the Opposition have pushed for the Government to go further. Time and again, the Government has dragged its feet and it continues to drag its feet on the windfall tax. While it will move to increase carbon taxes on ordinary workers and families tonight, it is leaving approximately €1 billion behind in the coffers of energy companies because it will not introduce that measure retrospectively. Government Members opposed our proposals at committee last week. The Government's treatment of ordinary workers and families is in stark contrast to its treatment of those energy companies. That tells us everything we need to know about this Government's approach to climate action and its approach to delivering a just transition. It means nothing to it.

Deputy Ged Nash

Essentially these amendments do not involve the carbon tax. We are talking here about the excise duty on petrol and diesel. The Government has agreed that it will extend the period to March next year and have another phased increase in August, to the best of my recollection. We are proposing that the Government should go further.

It has acknowledged the reason for postponing this planned increase is because people are hurting due to the cost-of-living crisis and the difficulties households are facing. We have no idea at this point what the position will be in regard to the Middle East. We have seen the awful conflagration in Gaza and Israel this week. That inevitably will have a significant impact on crude oil prices. That naturally will have a knock-on effect on petrol and diesel. The prudent thing would be to accept the Labour Party's amendment to further postpone any consideration of this issue until 9 October next year, which is likely to be budget date. That is a date identified in regard to another potential increase in that space. Building on the Minister's own logic we ask that as households in this country are going through a difficult, challenging time, as we cannot anticipate what will happen in the Middle East over the coming time but we know there will be a knock-on effect on fuel prices, the best the Minister can do is to insulate families and households throughout the country by accepting the Labour Party amendment. Now that I am on my feet, we accept his proposition in regard to the extension of the reduced rate of VAT on energy bills. It would be useful if the Minister would advise the House this evening precisely what the windfall taxes on energy companies will be deployed to do. Written replies to parliamentary questions received by me from the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, and discussions at the Committee on Budgetary Oversight meeting two weeks ago indicated that the Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, is handling the issue of resources off balance sheet. We were told that the CRU would be managing this and would then get involved in the process of seeking to reduce people's energy bills with the resources that were obtained from the windfall tax. Precisely how will that work? Given that the Minister, Deputy Ryan, is the Minister responsible for the CRU, it would be useful were he to put that on the record.

Deputy Michael Collins

I support Sinn Féin's amendment. It is difficult to find where I could support the Labour Party amendment because it is in favour of carbon tax, crucifying the people of this country for the past number of years.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

The people-----

Deputy Michael Collins

It is astonishing that they want to talk about decreasing the price of fuel now, all of a sudden. They are very sympathetic to the people now. We have an economic crisis as far as people are concerned. The Minister has not shown any respect or leeway to alleviate that concern. The price of fuel at the pumps is phenomenal and the people of rural Ireland have no choice. There are 2.2 million vehicles in this country. They have no choice. I have no choice in order to come here to the Dáil except to use a vehicle. I would like to use public transport. We do not have a train within 85 miles of where I live. We have one bus that leaves in the morning. I tell the Minister that constantly. It does not change. It leaves at 7.30 a.m. and returns at about 6 p.m. That is a great transport service. We are told we are lucky to have it. I will not slate everything that goes on. A new service has started in Castletownbere that goes into Bantry. I am not here to discredit people when credit is due. It is a great service. I believe the Skibbereen service to Ballydehob and Killarney is good too but I give more credit to the other because it is for the working people. It picks people up and it is being used but the Minister is not willing to spread that out. The people of Dunmanway, Clonakilty and Drinagh have no service. The people of Mizen Head have one service in the morning, as I said. The Minister does not care what we have because he knows he can steal out of the people’s pockets tomorrow morning at O’Meara’s petrol pump in Goleen, Lowertown creamery, Brosnans in Schull or Camiers in Ballydehob because they have to dig deep to drive their cars every morning. They have no choice in the matter. The Minister has no sympathy. The Government has brought in this mini budget, it is no bloody wonder that half its Deputies in the country are running scared out of this Dáil. They are all afraid to face the country. They are afraid to face what they are going to face. They deserve that but of course they are cowardly. They have not faced the people. They are running because the Government has turned its back on people. It has not given back the money to the roads. The roads in west Cork are in scandalous condition. I am getting it in the neck from people whose cars are being broken every day outside the Spar shop in Skibbereen. It is as though trenches have been dug for a warzone. It is insane around Clonakilty. I can name one after another. TII told the Minister there would be deaths in this country because of underspend. He said nothing but tomorrow morning, he will penalise the ordinary mother, father, farmer and haulier. He will kick them as he kicked them in September because Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael pat him on the back and back him up.

The Minister will kick them again next March, April or May. What is wrong with him? Do the Government Deputies not understand that you do not punish people, you work with people for change? The Minister has no intention of doing that. He wants to crucify people into further difficulties. People are telling me they cannot afford this. So the Government shoved on the hospitality VAT a month ago when 9% became 13.5%. Hit them again in the pocket. For the past two or three weeks, the leaks about the budget from this Government were scandalous. There is no need to have a budget any more, just leak it away every two or three weeks when they come back from the summer break, because that is what happens anyway. People will pay €19 extra for a 900-litre fill of oil for the tank to heat themselves. Has the Minister any respect for anybody? They pay for the car, they pay for the tractor, for the petrol and the diesel, and the home heating oil. There is nearly another €1 on the bag of coal, and that cannot be lit without a gallon of petrol into the fire with it. Has he no understanding of what is going on? The Minister is quite happy, because the people I represent, the people of rural Ireland who put me in here to fight their cause, are the people who will get him out of where he is. I can guarantee that. They are livid, furious, and rightly so. This budget did not help many of them today. It certainly did not help the working man and woman. They will be crucified tomorrow morning at the petrol pump. Every time I travel up and down, diesel has gone up when I leave west Cork, and when I come back it has gone up again. It is time to stop. People have had enough of this dictatorial Government and Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael patting the Minister on the back, praising him and helping him to crucify the ordinary farmer, haulier, mother and father. They ought to be ashamed for backing the Minister. There is little or no public transport service in our county. It is a sad picture. The Minister had many years to put that right. He can say he ran one from Ardgroom to Bantry, and thank God he did, and to Kilcrohane but little more. Plenty of places have no public transport service at all even though I have one, at 7.30 in the morning and 6 p.m. which is a farcical joke. It is time the Minister woke up. Do not penalise people when it is not their fault. Penalise people when services are put in place. If they do not use the services then hit them then. That is not the case here.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are four speakers remaining, and the Minister must come in. There are only ten minutes. I cannot insist that the debate stops but I ask for co-operation. I call Deputy Creed.

Deputy Michael Creed

I have a few observations to make on the general issue of mineral oil tax. There is much confusion about the component elements of it. It is probably appropriate in the context of the forthcoming finance Bill that consideration be given to what is liable for mineral oil tax, the carbon tax element of it, and what should be reclassified. It is not often that the Minister is accused of lacking in ambition in the context of the climate area but in the context of mineral oil tax, the classification of some fuels as being liable for mineral oil tax, particularly in the area of home heating, is something that could usefully be revisited in the context of the targets that have been set for reducing emissions in the home heating area. Hydro-treated vegetable oil, HVO, in my view is misclassified at present. It should be removed from mineral oil tax liability where that HVO is used for home heating purposes. The point is well made by a previous speaker that in the context of mineral oil tax, most people understand it to be a tax on fossil fuels.

HVO is not a fossil fuel. By substituting HVO, particularly in the area of home heating, a very significant immediate gain can be made in the context of reduced emissions in the sector. The reduction is up to 90%. I appreciate this issue cannot be dealt with through these resolutions. It would be appropriate, in the context of the Finance Act, to reclassify HVO used for home heating oil from a “substitute fuel”, as it is currently called, to a "biofuel". It would incentivise and enable the 600,000 or 700,000 homes throughout the country, not all of which are in rural Ireland, that currently use home heating oil to significantly reduce their emissions at an affordable cost. The reclassification of this fuel as a biofuel would make that an affordable option for them. It would also enable the Minister to be more ambitious in the context of the blending proposal in the consultation for the renewable heat obligation. The current proposal is for 2% blending and up to 10% by 2030. In the context of the appropriate tax treatment of biofuels - HVO for heating should be so classified - the industry states that it could deliver double the ambition of the Department's in the home heating sector. This issue is not on the table for tonight's discussion but it would be appropriate to deal with in the finance Bill.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy for his co-operation. I call Deputy Richard O'Donoghue and ask him to be brief.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

The first time the Minister, Deputy Ryan, spoke during Covid-19, I said I had no confidence in that person. He stood up in this House at a time of crisis and stated we should paint the back of our houses and grow lettuce on our south-facing windows so at least we would have our greens. This country could do without the Green Party because it penalising everyone by not having infrastructure in place. Common sense is not that common when it comes to the Green Party. It will enforce taxes on everyone and will not put infrastructure in place. I am not a climate change denier. I believe in a climate transition. The first thing we should do is put infrastructure in place. When there is infrastructure, you can then change everything and everyone will change with you. However, the Green Party believes everything has to happen now and it wants to shove the people who work, drive and can barely put food on their tables into EVs.

Garages in the UK have four-year-old EVs they cannot sell. Why is this case? It is because of the lifetime of the battery, the cost of buying a second-hand EV and what has to be done to maintain one going forward. As I said, I am not a denier; I believe in hybrid vehicles. Then again, many of the hybrids have a battery life of between 50 km and 100 km. The Government needs to listen to common sense and put the infrastructure in place first. Everyone in this country would then go with the Minister and change gradually when they can afford to do it. As I said, people cannot afford to put food on the table or pay the mortgage at the moment. The Government is taxing anyone who works in this country out of existence. It is taking 50 cent in taxes from every €1 of earnings from people who are trying to make a difference.

Deputy Simon Coveney

We are changing that.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

I ask the Minister to take some small advice from someone with common sense. He should eat some lettuce and he might actually come up with some of the ideas that we have because we do grow our own greens in our area. We do as much as we can to help the environment in our areas. The Minister is doing nothing to help the people of this country who he is supposed to protect.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I support the amendment. I will ask the Minister a couple of clear questions and give him plenty of time to answer them. If he gets away with screwing more money from the hard-pressed motorists, haulage contractors, fisherman, farmers and contractors through more additional excise taxes, will he answer a couple of questions tonight? Will he answer Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, which said the Minister's actions will lead to deaths on our roads? It put that directly at the Minister's feet and even listed out where people were going to die because he was holding up projects. Is the Minister quite happy to do that? He really does not care. All he really wants is for it to be the Green Party's way or nobody's way.

There should not be personal comment in the debate.

Deputy Michael Collins

That will not do you any good.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

It will not do you any good.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

You know the personal regard I have for you, but if you are going to rise up to defend him-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

-----it might not reflect well on you.

Deputy Ged Nash

Behave yourself.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are out of time now.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Let the Minister respond.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

It is called telling the truth, Minister.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I asked for your co-operation, Deputy.

Deputy Simon Coveney

This is a Chamber to discuss policy.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are under time pressure.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

And to tell the truth, Minister. We are here to tell the truth. Through all your talking I did not interrupt you-----

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

He came in a few minutes ago to-----

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is the last time I will give discretion now.

Deputy Ged Nash

This is what the Deputy wants. He is a child.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, do you want------

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

He has a million houses.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am going to let-----

(Interruptions).

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please. I will not have anybody chairing. There is one Chair.

Deputy Martin Kenny

In the two minutes that are left, I will mention VAT on fuel and electricity in respect of Financial Resolution No. 2. While it is welcome that the rate will stay at 9%, both of these commodities, which people need in order to live, are priced far too high at the moment, particularly for people with commercial premises. I was speaking to the owner of a bakery recently where the electricity costs have gone through the roof. The business may close as a result. There needs to be an emphasis, not just in the budget but in the Government's ongoing policy, to control the way in which prices are rising for businesses across the length and breadth of the country, particularly SMEs, which simply will not survive if we continue to go down this path.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy for his co-operation.

Deputy Martin Kenny

I will leave it to the Minister to respond.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister has a short while to conclude.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I only have a minute or two, and I have a problem in that I have to respond to the personal commentary-----

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Yes.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

Yes.

Deputy Ged Nash

Hear, hear.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I have the greatest respect for the Deputies opposite and they know that. Our offices used to be opposite each other and we always got on very well. I therefore find it strange when such personal invective is used. I was thinking about how to respond. Let us talk about Dingle. Let us go down to Dingle. Every place and every person matters. I absolutely respect the mandate of every voter who voted for Deputy Healy-Rae, as I am sure he respects every voter who voted for me. Dingle is a very interesting place that is showing real opportunity. It was the first place where we put in new rural public transport services. Deputy Michael Collins rightly recognised these services, which are now running from Castletownbere and all points in between and across the country. Dingle is where it started. We put in the new bus service. The service was hopeless prior to that, so we put in a regular service. There has been a twentyfold increase in users, especially among young people. These are not just tourists; they are local people. It is working.

The benefit of the carbon tax is that we can use that to ensure the budget is progressive, which it is.

Deputy Matt Carthy

Deputy Eamon Ryan

-----we are actually making sure that we protect Irish householders by deferring some of the charges.

Deputy Matt Carthy

The Minister should allow the amendments to be put to the House and let the House decide.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

The Minister should call his own committee.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We are over time. Can we have a little co-operation, please? As the time allowed for the debate has expired, I must now put the following question in accordance-----

Deputy Simon Coveney

It is the biggest CAP budget ever.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Can we stop, please? This is difficult.

Deputy Matt Carthy

The Minister does not believe that.

Deputy Simon Coveney

It is.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

As the time allowed for the debate has expired, I must now put the following question in accordance with the order of the Dáil of this day: "That amendments Nos. 3, 4, 5 and 6 set down to the motion for Financial Resolution No. 1 are hereby negatived and the motion for Financial Resolution No. 1 is hereby agreed to."

Question put.

The Dáil divided by electronic means.

Deputy Pádraig Mac Lochlainn

Under Standing Order 83(3)(b), I propose that the vote be taken by other than electronic means.

Question again put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 78; Níl, 69; Staon, 1.

Tá

Brophy, Colm.
Browne, James.
Bruton, Richard.
Burke, Colm.
Burke, Peter.
Butler, Mary.
Byrne, Thomas.
Cahill, Jackie.
Cannon, Ciarán.
Carroll MacNeill, Jennifer.
Chambers, Jack.
Collins, Niall.
Costello, Patrick.
Coveney, Simon.
Cowen, Barry.
Creed, Michael.
Crowe, Cathal.
Devlin, Cormac.
Dillon, Alan.
Donnelly, Stephen.
Duffy, Francis Noel.
Durkan, Bernard J.
English, Damien.
Farrell, Alan.
Feighan, Frankie.
Flaherty, Joe.
Flanagan, Charles.
Fleming, Sean.
Foley, Norma.
Griffin, Brendan.
Harris, Simon.
Haughey, Seán.
Heydon, Martin.
Higgins, Emer.
Hourigan, Neasa.
Humphreys, Heather.
Kehoe, Paul.
Lahart, John.
Lawless, James.
Leddin, Brian.
MacSharry, Marc.
Madigan, Josepha.
Martin, Catherine.
Martin, Micheál.
Matthews, Steven.
McAuliffe, Paul.
McConalogue, Charlie.
McEntee, Helen.
McGuinness, John.
McHugh, Joe.
Moynihan, Aindrias.
Moynihan, Michael.
Murnane O'Connor, Jennifer.
Naughton, Hildegarde.
Noonan, Malcolm.
O'Brien, Darragh.
O'Brien, Joe.
O'Callaghan, Jim.
O'Connor, James.
O'Dea, Willie.
O'Donnell, Kieran.
O'Donovan, Patrick.
O'Dowd, Fergus.
O'Gorman, Roderic.
O'Sullivan, Christopher.
O'Sullivan, Pádraig.
Ó Cathasaigh, Marc.
Ó Cuív, Éamon.
Phelan, John Paul.
Rabbitte, Anne.
Richmond, Neale.
Ring, Michael.
Ryan, Eamon.
Smith, Brendan.
Smyth, Niamh.
Smyth, Ossian.
Stanton, David.
Troy, Robert.

Níl

Andrews, Chris.
Bacik, Ivana.
Barry, Mick.
Berry, Cathal.
Boyd Barrett, Richard.
Brady, John.
Browne, Martin.
Buckley, Pat.
Cairns, Holly.
Canney, Seán.
Carthy, Matt.
Clarke, Sorca.
Collins, Joan.
Collins, Michael.
Cronin, Réada.
Crowe, Seán.
Cullinane, David.
Daly, Pa.
Donnelly, Paul.
Ellis, Dessie.
Farrell, Mairéad.
Fitzmaurice, Michael.
Fitzpatrick, Peter.
Gannon, Gary.
Gould, Thomas.
Guirke, Johnny.
Harkin, Marian.
Healy-Rae, Danny.
Healy-Rae, Michael.
Howlin, Brendan.
Kelly, Alan.
Kenny, Gino.
Kenny, Martin.
Kerrane, Claire.
Lowry, Michael.
Mac Lochlainn, Pádraig.
McDonald, Mary Lou.
McGrath, Mattie.
McNamara, Michael.
Mitchell, Denise.
Munster, Imelda.
Murphy, Paul.
Murphy, Verona.
Mythen, Johnny.
Nash, Ged.
Naughten, Denis.
Nolan, Carol.
O'Callaghan, Cian.
O'Donoghue, Richard.
O'Reilly, Louise.
O'Rourke, Darren.
Ó Broin, Eoin.
Ó Laoghaire, Donnchadh.
Ó Murchú, Ruairí.
Ó Ríordáin, Aodhán.
Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.
Pringle, Thomas.
Quinlivan, Maurice.
Ryan, Patricia.
Shanahan, Matt.
Sherlock, Sean.
Smith, Bríd.
Smith, Duncan.
Stanley, Brian.
Tóibín, Peadar.
Tully, Pauline.
Ward, Mark.
Whitmore, Jennifer.
Wynne, Violet-Anne.

Staon

Grealish, Noel.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies Cormac Devlin and Hildegarde Naughton; Níl, Deputies Michael Collins and Pádraig Mac Lochlainn.

Question declared carried.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 10 Oct 2023

Financial Resolution No. 1: Mineral Oil Tax

Tá

Níl

Staon

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 10 Oct 2023