Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 22 Nov 2023

Vol. 1046 No. 2

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Nursing Homes

Deputy Bríd Smith

I thank the Minister of State for taking the debate this morning. I will pre-empt it by saying I hope by the end of the discussion she will strongly consider meeting representatives of the families of the 68 patients in Cherry Orchard Hospital who are due to be moved, mostly against their will, to the Bartra Healthcare centre in Clondalkin to allow the refurbishment of two units, namely, Sycamore and Willow.

Many of us have been forced to drill down into detail that we are not familiar with. From the outset, answers to the very serious questions we have been asking have been vague, too short or not forthcoming. Trying to equip ourselves with reports and documents we think we need to see is certainly not possible. Some of them have not been given to us.

What we are concerned with today is that a few weeks before Christmas, 68 very vulnerable patients are being told at the eleventh hour that because of a health, safety and fire concern about the structure of the units they inhabit, they will have to move to a for-profit privately run healthcare centre in Clondalkin. This is worth noting. Cherry Orchard Hospital is a not-for-profit HSE centre. It is very well-staffed by some of the best of those who care for others. They have been working there for years. This transfer is cruel, to put it mildly, to many patients or residents and their families. The families have been protesting outside the hospital. I say, "Well done", to them for not going quietly and putting up with a proposed transfer that has serious question marks around it, which I will come back to later.

I ask the Minister of State to try to halt or delay the transfer to make sure there is room and space for everybody's questions to be answered. I also ask that it does not happen before Christmas. Will she agree to meet representatives of the families?

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

It was a shock to the staff in the complex to hear the units were being closed and a double shock to the families and those residents who have any understanding - and some of them do not - of what is ahead of them. Some of the residents have been there for 20 years. They are well cared for. There is absolutely no question about their care. It is one of the care centres in the area where people want to go, which is a good sign.

Nobody is taking issue with HIQA stating there is a health and safety issue. We are not experts in fire control. However, there is alternative accommodation on site that could be fixed up a lot faster than a year. We are speaking about moving patients out of the comfort of where they have been for 20 years to another site. Some of these people have very complex needs. Some people are bipolar and others have Alzheimer's disease. There are also people with other issues.

There is a range of questions. Can this be delayed? Can works be done on other empty buildings on site, which could accelerate the time it will take? Can remedial measures be taken initially? There has been discussion about uneven floors but the HIQA report suggests things are a lot worse.

The families have been asking questions. How much access will they have to this private facility? Will they have the same access as they do now? Everybody knows when they work with a HSE centre that the staff will bend over backwards and do everything they can so that people can visit their loved ones. This is not the same in most private centres that I know of.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)

I thank the Deputies for raising this issue. I know it has caused a lot of concern for families and residents. If it becomes necessary for an older person to move to a nursing home their safety and well-being is of paramount concern. We have to ensure the highest standards of care are provided to all residents in a safe and secure environment.

Cherry Orchard is a designated centre for the care of older people located in the hospital campus in Ballyfermot, Dublin 10. The centre comprises five units, namely, Beech, Aspen, Hazel, Willow and Sycamore, housing 95 residents in total. There are 68 residents in the Willow and Sycamore units.

In May 2023, a HIQA inspection identified concerns about the flooring in the Sycamore and Willow units in Cherry Orchard Hospital. These presented a potential health and safety risk. A subsequent HSE review indicated the flooring has underlying structural issues, including a newly identified lack of fire compartmentalisation in the walls at a subfloor level and in the subfloor, which require immediate remedial work. A fire risk assessment report has identified that while the risk of fire is relatively low a maximum rating has been assigned to the potential impact of any fire, which would be severe due to a combination of factors including the dependency level of the residents.

The HSE has assured the Department there is ongoing monitoring and risk assessment by the service to ensure there is no immediate hazard to residents. In consultation with HIQA the HSE considered several plans to address the required works that would have allowed residents to remain on site during their completion. However, it was agreed that to ensure the health and safety of residents, to minimise disruption during these works, and to comply with a requirement for a shorter timeline for completion of works, the Sycamore and Window units will close for a minimum of 12 months. I have been advised that there is no impact on other structures on the campus as the issues relate solely to the two modular buildings that are Window and Sycamore.

The safety and well-being of residents and staff is our primary concern. Residents and their families will continue to be consulted, informed and reassured regularly about the move. There will be a medical social worker and an assisted decision making lead available on site for the duration of the move. In addition, all residents have the on-site details of an independent advocacy service should they wish to contact it.

Last week I met the national director and assistant director of community operation services for older people in the HSE. They are in charge of the community nursing units.

All residents will remain under the overall care of the HSE. I have stressed the importance of communicating with families and residents so that they are aware of what is happening.

It is proposed to move the residents to Clondalkin Lodge nursing home on a phased basis. This phased move will pay due regard to the residents' needs, their current proximity to one another and relationships within the unit. Medical officers will follow and review each resident on transfer and for a minimum of three months after that. The HSE has assured my Department that each care plan for this temporary move will include the therapeutic inputs required as well as a review of charges to ensure that no one experiences adverse financial exposure. All additional charges will be covered by the HSE for the duration of the works. When these extensive structural works are complete, everyone will move back to the Cherry Orchard site. All residents will remain in the care of the HSE at all times, even when they are located off site. We all know how there are extra charges in private nursing homes but there will be no additional charges for these residents. All supports, such as physiotherapy and occupational therapy, will be provided to the residents, which I have made crystal clear.

An initial visit to the new nursing home was well attended by residents and families and further visits are planned.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I do not doubt that the Minister of State’s statement that all residents will remain in the care of the HSE is true. Unfortunately, the transfer on a like-for-like basis will not actually be like for like. For example, it jumps out at me immediately that there is a 24-7 medical team on site in Cherry Orchard. A GP will only be present one day per week in the Bartra Healthcare centre in Clondalkin. If our fathers or mothers were residents in Cherry Orchard and got sick there, they would go to the hospital they normally attended. For most residents, that would be St. James’s Hospital. If they got sick in Clondalkin, they would be sent to Tallaght, a place they have not attended and where their records are not kept. They may be in the care of the HSE in theory but the truth is there will not be like-for-like care.

The Minister of State has repeated that there is no immediate hazard to residents. I appeal to her to put a halt to this transfer so that we can dig deeper and ask more questions. For example, is it not a conflict of interest that one of the chief movers and shakers in Bartra Healthcare in Clondalkin is a former HIQA inspector?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy, but we are way over time.

Deputy Bríd Smith

Is it not a conflict of interest that those who carried out the inspection on the Willow and Sycamore units do not have engineering qualifications? We need answers that go much deeper than what we are getting.

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh

One of the Minister of State’s key comments was that there was a low risk of fire. Any risk of fire is dangerous but there is a risk everywhere we go. There is a building in Dublin that houses hundreds of workers every day and has been getting a fire certificate once per month for years. If that building went on fire, there would be chaos in this city. I am not saying that we take the same approach with our elderly population in this instance but there must be some way to address the problem while they are in situ, for example, by moving a very small number out. The Minister of State referred to a minimum of 12 months, which is crazy. There is a golf tournament that will manage to get a road built ahead of schedule. Why can we not consider other possibilities?

I visited patients in these units a number of years ago and, as far as I remember, the units had been refurbished. Why was this issue not spotted at that stage? The units are perfect for this role. Where will the staff end up? It also needs to be taken into account that there are residents who are wards of court and who have no one to advocate for them.

Deputy Mary Butler

My primary focus is the health and well-being of the residents and I have to listen to what HIQA says. HIQA will deregister the building if these works are not carried out. I have to put that information on the floor of the Dáil.

Several older units at Cherry Orchard that are used for storage were reviewed. They could not be considered because they were not habitable, they were deregistered and they would require substantial work and time to bring them to a point where they were habitable and registrable.

HIQA has advised my Department that the HSE is required to undertake structural and fire safety works in the buildings. We owe the residents a duty of care and quality care, and patient safety has to come first. I know the Deputies are not disputing this for one second, given that they said so.

Many of the residents and their families visited the new site last week. Some more visited it this week. I have spoken to families. I have a constituent in Waterford who is the main contact for her uncle. She attended those meetings. I will be honest and say that communication at the outset was poor. That is why I met the national director and assistant national director to find out what was happening.

We have to put the health and safety of the residents first. They will be moved off site. They will remain in the care of the HSE and there will be none of the extra charges that are normally seen in a private nursing home. I have been assured that all medical supports currently available to the residents will follow. I will keep this matter under review. I have been contacted by several of the families and I have written back to them to explain the situation.

The Deputies asked me to put a pause to this. I will not request a pause. I have to listen to HIQA and ensure that the residents are safe.

Agriculture Supports

Deputy Denis Naughten

I wish to formally put on the record that I am not at all happy that a Minister from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine is not present. The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, told me that he could not be here but there are two Ministers of State in that Department. It is not good enough that none of the three could be available this morning for what is an extremely urgent issue. Normally, I would refuse to accept this debate, but, sadly, the farmers, their families and others in the Shannon Callows do not have the luxury of waiting for one of the three ministerial diaries to open up.

I am seeking to address a matter of the utmost urgency, one that is of importance to the farmers in the Shannon and Suck Callows, namely, the need to revise the compensation scheme for those affected by flooding in recent months. This issue, as we are all painfully aware, is not just one of financial compensation, but one that strikes at the very heart of our rural communities and their sustainability. The Shannon Callows, a region known for its rich agricultural heritage, has been devastated by unprecedented flooding. This has resulted in a significant loss of fodder and grazing, impacting more than 300 farmers directly. The current compensation scheme, which promises €325 per hectare, is a step in the right direction, but its execution and scope raise critical concerns.

The situation on the ground is dire. Our farmers have lost approximately 7,000 acres of meadow and 7,000 acres of grazing land. This flood began on St. Patrick’s Day and continued well into the summer. It has not only destroyed crops, but also forced farmers to use their silage grounds for grazing, leaving them without fodder. This crisis is not just about compensating them for the loss of fodder, but recognising the cascading effect of this disaster on the overall agricultural productivity and mental well-being of our farmers and their families. While the package being delivered is commendable, it overlooks critical aspects, applies a limitation of 15 ha, and lacks consideration of the loss of grazing lands. Our farmers did not just lose their meadows; they lost valuable grazing time, which is crucial for their cattle. This cannot be overlooked.

The delay in issuing payments is alarming. The farmers of the Shannon Callows have been grappling with one of the longest summer floods in living memory. Their resilience is commendable but their patience and resources are wearing thin. It was initially indicated that payments would commence in December but we are now facing the possibility that they will not be issued until 2024. This delay is potentially devastating for farmers who are relying on this support to sustain their livelihoods and families. Moreover, the method of identifying affected farmers through satellite mapping, while innovative, has inadvertently excluded those along the River Suck and Little Brosna tributaries. It is imperative that any farmer who has suffered due to flooding, be it on the Shannon itself or on the backflow of waters on the tributaries, receive support. The current count of 230 farmers affected, as highlighted by the Save Our Shannon Organisation, is a gross underestimation.

By overlooking those affected by tributary flooding, we risk leaving many farm families in dire straits this Christmas. I urge the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine to look again at the compensation scheme for farmers in the Shannon Callows and to ensure they get adequate compensation, including those on the Little Brosna and the River Suck.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Deputy Josepha Madigan)

I appreciate that I am not the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine or indeed a Minister of State in that Department but I hope the statement I give will be of assistance to the Deputy. The Government fully recognises there has been exceptional flooding in the Shannon Callows during late summer, which has prevented some farmers from completing their normal traditional harvesting of silage and-or hay. This has left affected farmers in a serious situation requiring them to purchase fodder to maintain animal health and welfare during the winter months. It is in that context that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine announced a new scheme on 7 November 2023 called the Shannon Callows flood scheme to support affected farmers in the Shannon Callows.

The Department has announced funding of €800,000 to assist farmers who have been affected by fodder loss in the Shannon Callows. The scheme will be operated from within the Department and given the urgent nature of the assistance required, it is planned that payments will commence issuing to applicants in December 2023. The expression of interest letters include the application form issued on 17 November 2023 to approximately 230 farmers. These farmers were identified as being impacted by fodder loss on dates between 2 July 2023 and 29 September 2023 by the Department's area monitoring system.

In returning the application and applying for the scheme, the farmer is declaring that he or she lost fodder as a result of the exceptional flooding and that he or she has read and understand the terms and conditions of the scheme. The closing date for receipt of applications from the approximately 230 farmers is 27 November 2023 and as of 22 November 2023, applications had been received. I would, however, encourage those farmers who have received an expression of interest letter to return it to the direct payments section of the Department as soon as possible.

In addition to this new Shannon Callows flood scheme, the Department paid out approximately €56 million in funding to farmers across the country under the 2022 fodder scheme in response to the Ukraine crisis. A further €30 million was paid out to farmers under the 2023 fodder scheme in an advance payment in December 2022. The Department anticipates paying a balancing payment for the 2023 fodder support scheme in the coming weeks. That is likely to amount to approximately €15 million to €20 million in total.

Approximately 71,000 farmers were in the 2022 fodder support scheme with approximately 67,000 of them also applying for the 2023 fodder support scheme. These schemes have supported the production of fodder on Irish farms across the country in both 2022 and 2023.

The Department estimates that approximately 2,500 ha were impacted by flooding. These are grassland and in terms of financial support under the Shannon Callows flood scheme, the Department does not differentiate between whether the grassland was utilised for saving hay or silage exclusively or was used only for grazing. Some parcels along the River Suck and Little Brosna River are included within the figure of 2,500 ha. In terms of the overall fodder situation within the country, the latest study by Teagasc on the fodder situation shows that winter feed stocks are relatively secure and that there is surplus fodder on 75% of farms nationally.

Turning to the wider issue of flooding in the Shannon region, the Department is represented and participates fully in the Shannon flood management working group led by the Office of Public Works. The Department has no direct role in the management of water levels along the Shannon waterway. However, senior officials within the Department participate on the Shannon flood risk State agency co-ordination working group. This working group was established in early 2016 by the Government to enhance ongoing co-operation across all of the State agencies involved with the River Shannon.

Deputy Denis Naughten

I thank the Minister of State for her response and acknowledge her presence her but it is pitiful that none of the three Ministers could explain their absence from the House this morning. The extension to grazing lands, which was contained in the reply, is welcome. The difficulty is that farmers are being caught by a double whammy in terms of the loss of their fodder and the loss of the after grass because they have had to let stock in on some of the grazing land. It is not necessarily the floodlands themselves; it is that farmers have had to let stock in other grazing land as a result of that and this is not acknowledged in the proposals that have been put and that all the farmers who have been affected on the River Suck and the Little Brosna, some of whom have still to receive an expression of interest letter, are being discriminated against.

I ask the Minister of State to do one thing, namely, go back to the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and at least have him to do me the courtesy of responding to four points. One is that he expedites the compensation process to ensure that payments are made promptly and certainly well before the end of this year. The second is that he expands the scope of the compensation scheme to include all farmers affected by flooding regardless of whether the flooding is on the main River Shannon or its tributaries. The third is that he reassesses the compensation amount and the criteria taking into account the loss of grazing land and the actual extent of the damage, which far exceeds the current estimation. The fourth is that the Department establishes a more inclusive and consultative process with the farming community to ensure that all affected parties have their voices heard and their needs met. I ask the Minister of State to ensure that the Minister responds to those four issues without delay.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I heard what the Deputy said with regard to expediting compensation. In my statement, I said that I understand that payments from that scheme will be made by December. I will also bring back the Deputy's comments regarding expanding the scope of the compensation scheme, his wish for the compensation amount to be reassessed and his wish for the establishment of a more inclusive and consultative process in the future.

I also note what he said earlier about the cascading effect of farmers regarding their well-being and that it is not just about the loss of fodder. He mentioned that 7,000 acres each have been lost to farmers and that approximately 300 farmers are directly affected by this. I will take the Deputy's contribution back and convey his views to the Department and the Minister.

Scoileanna Gaeilge agus Gaeltachta

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

Tá ról lárnach ag scoileanna lán-Ghaeilge i gcur chun cinn na teanga dóibh siúd nach bhfuil Gaeilge labhairt acu sa bhaile agus, ansin, i gceantair Ghaeltachta dóibh siúd a bhfuil an Ghaeilge á labhairt acu sa bhaile. Tugann sé deis do scoláirí a gcuid oideachais a fháil ina dteanga dhúchais.

Tá tábhacht ag baint leis seo i gcomhair chaomhnú na teanga agus tá sé tábhachtach go bhfaigheadh na scoileanna seo tacaíocht ón Roinn Oideachais agus ón Aire Oideachais chun é seo a dhéanamh. Ní fhaigheann scoileanna education and training board, ETB, an chabhair chéanna is a fhaigheann scoileanna deonacha agus ní thuigim cén fáth sin. Tá liúntas ann. Deontas dátheangach a thugtar air a fhaigheann na scoileanna deonacha agus nach bhfaigheann na scoileanna ETB. €110.50 in aghaidh an scoláire atá i gceist leis an liúntas seo agus ní dhéanann sé ciall ar bith dom an fáth nach bhfaigheann na scoileanna ETB an chabhair chéanna, cé gur scoileanna Gaeltachta scoileanna ETB den chuid is mó agus scoileanna a bhfuil tacaíocht sa bhreis ag teastáil uathu, má táimid dáiríre faoi chaomhnú na Gaeilge. Tuigim gur scoileanna DEIS iad na scoileanna Gaeltachta den chuid is mó, agus mar sin tá siad aitheanta mar scoileanna atá faoi mhíbhuntáiste, dár leis an Aire Oideachais í féin agus dár le Roinn an Aire Stáit.

Tá a fhios agam freisin gur scoileanna iolsainchreidmheacha na scoileanna ETB agus gur scoileanna Caitliceacha iad na scoileanna deonacha. Ní thuigim an fáth nach bhfuil na scoileanna seo ag fáil an chabhair chéanna is atá scoileanna atá ag múineadh trí mheán na Gaeilge ach gur scoileanna deonacha iad.

Ní rud nua é seo. Tá sé seo ag tarlú le 30 bliain anuas agus tá sé thar am go ndéanfaí rud éigin faoi. Ní thuigim an fáth go bhfuil scoileanna Gaeltachta á gcur in áit na leathphingine.

I am a great believer in the importance of Irish-medium education. For loads of people like me, who did not have the opportunity to learn Irish at home, it is where we learned our language and so many other people have the same experience with Irish-medium education. It also has a very important role for those people who do speak Irish at home, who may live in the Gaeltacht or come from Irish-speaking households, because it gives them the opportunity to be educated through their native language. For the past 30 years, however, there has, unfortunately, been a difference between the way ETB Irish-medium secondary schools and voluntary schools are being treated. The difference relates to the bilingual grant of €110.50 per pupil, which goes to voluntary schools and not to ETB schools, despite most Gaeltacht schools being ETB schools.

As the Minister of State will know, to preserve the language, it is vital we support Gaeltacht schools. Moreover, the Department has acknowledged these schools need more assistance, because a lot of them are in DEIS areas. As a result, they are clearly more disadvantaged, and as well as that, ETB schools are multi-denominational, whereas a lot of voluntary schools are Catholic run. I do not understand why Gaeltacht schools in this case are being left in the ha'penny place. This has been ongoing for 30 years and it is quite an easy and straightforward change the Government, the Minister of State and the Department can make.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue and giving me the opportunity to address the funding of schools in the ETB and voluntary secondary school sectors. The Department has different models of funding to meet the needs of the different types of post-primary school, including those in the Irish-medium sector. The funding arrangements made by the Department for voluntary secondary, community and comprehensive and ETB schools and colleges reflect the different management and ownership arrangements that apply to schools at post-primary level.

Voluntary secondary schools in the free education scheme, which are privately owned and managed, are funded by the Department by way of per capita grants. An additional per capita grant, known as the Irish and bilingual grant, is paid to secondary schools in the voluntary sector in which instruction is through the medium of Irish in full or in part. Such a grant is not paid to schools in either the community and comprehensive or the ETB sectors. Instead, the arrangements that apply in the ETB sector are that financial allocations are made to ETBs as part of a block grant. ETBs are given a high level of autonomy in the management and appropriation of this grant and each ETB has the autonomy to distribute its allocations in line with its own priorities and needs. As such, funding is allocated not to individual schools but to the ETB itself for allocation among the schools within its remit. The block grant model covers not only the day-to-day costs of schools but also the running costs of the ETB head office and other activities apart from the second level programme. This approach differs from the capitation grants provided to voluntary secondary schools.

In the context of Irish-medium education, work on the development of a new policy on Irish-medium education outside of the Gaeltacht is under way in the Department. This policy will sit within the overall framework of the 20-year strategy for the Irish language and build on the achievements of the policy on Gaeltacht education. The policy will be an important step towards achieving the programme for Government commitments on Irish in the education system. The key objectives of the policy are in accordance with the 20-year strategy for the Irish language and include the provision of a framework for the delivery of high-quality Irish-medium education in settings outside of the Gaeltacht. An extensive public consultation process has been conducted to gather the views of stakeholders, including young people, parents, education professionals, education stakeholders and Irish-language organisations, and a wide range of issues have been raised. This has included funding of Irish-medium schools, among other topics. The issues raised in that consultation are being considered by officials in the Department as part of the work on the development of the policy on Irish-medium education outside of the Gaeltacht.

I heard what the Deputy said about the grant of €110.50, which goes to voluntary but not ETB schools, and she pointed to the fact most Gaeltacht schools are run by ETBs. I also heard what she said about the fact a lot of them are multidenominational and are located in disadvantaged DEIS areas. As I explained, however, it is part of a block grant, that is, a very different funding model, and is not the capitation grant provided to voluntary secondary schools. The funding is allocated not to individual schools but to the ETB itself for allocation among the schools within its remit. That block grant model covers not only the day-to-day costs of schools but also the running costs of the ETB head office and other activities apart from the second level programme.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire Stáit. Tá eolas agam anseo faoin gcineál maoinithe atá á fháil ag education and training boards, ETB-anna, i gcomparáid leis na scoileanna deonacha. Má bhreathnaímid ar an capitation standard rate, mar a thugtar air, tá difríocht ann. Tá €276 ag na scoileanna ETB agus tá €316 á fháil ag na scoileanna deonacha. Is rud eile é sin ón méid a bhí mé ag labhairt faoi maidir leis an €110.50.

Ansin tá siad ag fáil an €110.50, méid nach bhfuil na scoileanna ETB ag fáil mar go bhfuil deontas eile ar a dtugtar support services grant ann. Faigheann na scoileanna ETB €99 agus faigheann na scoileanna deonacha €224.50.

Ansin, tá liúntas eile agus is é sin liúntas dátheangach nuair atá suas go dtí ceithre ábhar á ndéanamh trí mheán na Gaeilge. Is é sin €22 mar rud amháin a fhaigheann na scoileanna deonacha agus nach bhfaigheann na scoileanna ETB. Tá go leor difríochta ansin, insím don Aire Stáit.

Cloisim go bhfuil an tAire Stáit ag breathnú ar pholasaí do scoileanna Gaeilge taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht ach sílim go gcaithfidh sí breathnú air seo nuair a bheidh sí ag breathnú air sin agus na scoileanna Gaeltachta a chlúdach ansin freisin.

I hear what the Minister of State is saying, but I am looking at the figures that have been provided to me. The capitation standard rate for ETB schools is €206, whereas for voluntary schools it is €316. Likewise, the support services grant is €99 and €224.50, respectively. There is also the €110.50 grant, or €22 per pupil per subject up to a maximum of four subjects taught through Irish.

At this point, these schools are being left in the ha'penny place. They are clearly crying out for this support. They have been raising this over recent years and it should be looked at.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I appreciate there are differences in the funding and models of funding among the different types of schools, but it would be erroneous to say ETB schools do not receive funding. Rather, it is a different type of funding scheme. Voluntary secondary schools receive capitation funding but it is a block grant that goes to ETBs, and they are given a high level of autonomy in the management and appropriation of that grant, so it is a very different type of funding. We are satisfied they are able to deal with and manage their priorities and needs within that funding.

Rail Network

Deputy Frankie Feighan

This is a long-running saga. I recall 30 years ago coming to Leinster House to fight for the survival of the Dublin-Sligo train line. We are very proud of the line but I do not think it gets the attention it deserves. Something is happening in Sligo and the north west. I always say Sligo is the new Galway of the north west. The number of talented young people who have come to our area, whether to Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon or Donegal, is incredible.

We now need a train service. We have a train service that leaves Sligo early in the morning at 5.40 a.m. but it takes more than three hours and ten minutes. If I want to get back to Sligo as well, the latest time is 7.15 p.m. and it gets into Sligo at 10.33 p.m. We need more services. I know it is not an issue of timetables. If I was to go from Ballyhaunis on the Castlebar-Ballina-Dublin line into Heuston Station, I would do the same distance in half an hour less. If I wanted to go from Galway to Dublin, which is 10 km longer, I would get to Dublin 40 minutes quicker than going from Sligo to Dublin. We want parity of esteem. Regarding our roads, we have the N4 and the N17, which get access into Sligo. We need much more attention to the Sligo line and therefore we need many more trains.

So much is happening in Sligo. There is the ATU, the new Atlantic Technology University, which has more than 25,000 students. Many people want to come to the north west. There is the new National Surf Centre in Strandhill. A businessman in another town told me they are finding it hard to get people to work there because people want to work four days a week - they want to go surfing in Strandhill on a Friday. That is what is happening and it is something.

We need now Irish Rail and the Government to, let us say, match up and put in more and perhaps quicker services. How will they do that? I know there is a problem from Maynooth into Connolly Station. However, we need to be a bit more adventurous and we need to look much quicker.

In Carrick-on-Shannon, there is the new Carrick Business Park, which was the MBNA facilities. Leitrim County Council bought it. Paddy Whiskey will be in the Lough Gill distillery. It will be the new Midleton or Bushmills of the north west. There is the Shed Distillery in Drumshanbo as well, which many people come to.

Something is happening in Sligo but we need more connections. We need more and quicker trains. We need the N4 and N17, which is not in the Minister of State’s brief today but we certainly need it looked at.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I thank the Deputy for raising this important topic. I wish to clarify that the Minister for Transport has responsibility for policy and the overall funding for public transport, but neither the Minister nor his officials are involved in the day-to-day operation of public transport services. The statuary responsibility for securing the provision of public passenger transport services nationally rests with the National Transport Authority. The NTA works with the public transport operators that deliver the services and have responsibility for day-to-day operational matters. That said, I reassure Deputy Feighan that the Government is strongly committed to providing all citizens with reliable, realistic, sustainable mobility options, and public transport plays a key role in the delivery of this goal.

To support this objective in budget 2023, the Department of Transport secured €563.55 million of funding for public service obligation and TFI Local Link services, which was up from €538 million in 2022. More recently, under budget 2024, a funding package of approximately €611.813 million has been secured for PSO and Local Link services. This includes funding for the continuation of the 20% fare reduction on PSO services, the young adult card on both PSO and commercial bus services, and the 90-minute fare until the end of 2024. Funding has also been secured to support new and enhanced bus and rail services next year.

As the Deputy will be aware, the Government is committed to improving public transport, both bus and rail, and is backing up that commitment with significant investments across the network. This includes initiatives such as the DART+ programme, the arrival of new DART+ fleet, the proposed replacement of the current Enterprise fleet and the introduction of an additional 41 intercity railcars or ICRs. These improvements will have short-, medium- and longer-term benefits for the rail network. More immediately, while the existing Iarnród Éireann operational fleet is already fully deployed on scheduled services, earlier this year, Iarnród Éireann took delivery of the final batch of the 41 ICRs. The NTA has advised that there are plans to utilise the new ICRs to extend the length of multiple train sets operating on the current rail network and passengers can expect to see longer trains in operation from the first quarter of 2024 once the commissioning phase for the new carriages is complete.

Regarding the Dublin to Sligo line, I understand that Iarnród Éireann continues to operate the pre-Covid schedule on this line, with eight train services each way daily. The route is expected to carry approximately 1.2 million journeys by the end of 2023. I am advised that Iarnród Éireann's Strategy 2027 envisages supplementing the existing service between Sligo and Dublin with additional trains for part of the route to provide an hourly service from locations such as Mullingar or Longford. However, I understand that there are some constraints on the expansion of services on the line because it is predominantly a single line section of railway between Maynooth and Sligo, meaning additional services must cross each other at passing locations between two and three times per journey. The operation of Sligo services is further impacted between Connolly and Maynooth due to stopping commuter services operating within this section coming from Maynooth, M3 Parkway and Phoenix Park tunnel lines. While the Sligo intercity trains are planned to operate unhindered in this section, this is not always possible as commuter service levels increase, which results in limited track capacity and the ability to operate additional intercity services that require large gaps in service to operate unhindered. Nonetheless, the introduction of new DART+ fleet from 2025 will free up intercity trains for use on the national network and enable the company to assess, with the NTA, possible service enhancements, subject to demand on the network at that time.

Deputy Frankie Feighan

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. This is an issue that many people have brought to my attention and I see it myself. There are times that we want more trains from Sligo going through Ballymote, Collooney, Boyle, Carrick-on-Shannon, Dromod and Longford. If I want to get from Dublin to Longford, that is fine, but we want to get to the north west.

I thank the Minister of State for the work that has been done. The reduction in fares makes it much more affordable and encourages more people to use the line. As she said, 1.2 million will be using the line. However, there are constraints on the expansion of the line. As she said, it is a single line between Maynooth and Sligo and additional service must cross a passing point between two and three times. Hopefully there is work done to look at the Sligo line and it will get the attention it deserves, because we do not have the transport infrastructure.

Much good work is being done. In respect of Local Link, one can see the number of buses going between Sligo, Coolaney, Ballymote, Boyle, Manorhamilton and Ballyshannon is making a difference. It is money well spent. Many people who were not used to using public transport are now beginning to use it. That takes many more people out of their cars and it is providing a service, but we need to do much more.

I wish to try to reduce the times between Sligo and Dublin from a little over three hours. As I said, we are the new Galway of the west and we want to be given the same treatment. We want to get to Dublin as quickly as possible. However, more importantly, we want people to come from Dublin to Sligo as quickly as possible to see all of the great things on offer there. I know the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is from Galway and she would not mind us getting the same parity of esteem as that wonderful city of hers.

Deputy Josepha Madigan

I am not sure how the Galway TDs might feel about Sligo being described as the new Galway of the west. However, I appreciate the Deputy’s advocacy for Sligo. I note what he said about the fact there is a new surf centre in Strandhill, the new Atlantic Technological University, the Carrick Business Park and the Paddy Whiskey and Drumshanbo distilleries, which is bringing much attention to Sligo. I will bring the Deputy’s comments back to the Minister for Transport. I note he is looking for parity of esteem and more trains in a speedier way. I will certainly bring those comments back.