Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 29 Nov 2023

Vol. 1046 No. 5

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I am a proud Dubliner. I was born and bred in this city. I raised my family here. This is a city of positivity, a vibrant city full of decent, hard-working people who believe in community. Like all Dubliners, I am heartbroken by what happened in Dublin last Thursday. How in the name of God did we come to this? Three young children and their carer were stabbed outside their school in broad daylight. It is every parent’s worst nightmare. Our hearts go out to those children, their parents and their families, especially the little five-year-old child fighting for her life.

As those poor children were being taken to hospital, a mob of thugs set about destruction and mayhem. They were allowed to take control of Dublin city centre. The Minister’s assertion that nobody saw this coming is a water-weak defence. Everybody saw it coming for months. When the news broke that children had been stabbed, people held their breath for even a hint that the perpetrator might not be Irish. They knew this would be exploited by those who seek to sow hate, division and mayhem.

Very soon after the attack, organised agitators were on the scene, working their phones and starting to plan the havoc that unfolded. It was obvious to everyone on the ground that this orchestration was happening. In fact, a member of Mary Lou McDonald’s team brought it to the attention of gardaí at the scene. People could see them organising through social media. At 2.04 p.m., I messaged my sister-in-law, who works in the Rotunda, to warn her. I was in Dublin. I was here in Leinster House and I could see this escalating. How did the Minister not see and feel what was coming?

Incredibly, the only people who did not see this coming were the Minister, her Government colleagues and the Garda Commissioner. We needed a decisive, early and quick public order policing intervention to contain the trouble and nip it in the bud. That is not what we got. Spokespeople for the GRA say that there was no plan, no central instruction was given to gardaí and front-line gardaí showed up to help because of WhatsApp messages sent to each other. This was an unprecedented and catastrophic failure of leadership on the part of the Minister and Commissioner Harris.

The public were placed in the way of danger. Ordinary workers, emergency responders and front-line gardaí were isolated, exposed and set upon. The Minister lost control of Dublin city centre. It was mob rule, yet she says that the Garda had the resources needed to respond quickly and with force. Denial. The Minister refuses to accept that control of the city centre was lost. Delusion. She says that the streets of Dublin city centre are safe. Make believe. Tell that to the children, parents and staff at Gaelscoil Choláiste Mhuire. Yesterday, when those children came out of school, they were greeted with the sight of an intoxicated stranger who had urinated on himself, and there was not a single garda around six days after these little children were traumatised by the brutal stabbing of three of their classmates and their carer. Just think of the fear this created for those children and their parents. What happened to those children was not normal. Nobody expects a garda to be posted at the door. What they do expect is visible, strong and active community policing in the vicinity of the school.

An Ceann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy, but her time is up.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

They did not get that. Not a single lesson has been learned because the Minister is not listening. In any other walk of life or organisation, the person presiding over such a colossal failure would be sacked.

An Ceann Comhairle

Time is up, please.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Clearly, the Minister is not the person to restore people's confidence in public safety. Her position is untenable. You should resign.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Minister for Justice (Deputy Helen McEntee)

I wish to say at the outset that my thoughts are still very much with the young girl and with her carer, both of whom are critically ill in hospital. What happened to those children and that school is an unimaginable tragedy. My thoughts are with them, their families, the school and the wider community.

What we saw unfold after that appalling tragedy was a small group of people, who do not represent me or the vast majority of people in this country, who took that tragedy and used it to sow division and hatred, spread fear in this city and to loot and riot. They are thugs. Those responsible for inciting that hatred and violence, for attacking members of An Garda Síochána and for setting buses on fire will be held responsible and will be brought to justice.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Helen McEntee

We also saw the largest mobilisation of our public order units, with more than 400 members of An Garda Síochána coming together to respond to these thugs. In a very short space of time, we saw these thugs being contained into a small part of our city centre. What we saw was devastating and not one of us ever imagined that we would witness what we witnessed, but the thugs were contained by gardaí. We saw other teams of gardaí protecting those who were trapped in their businesses and could not leave their workplaces. We saw gardaí protecting minority groups and those in international protection centres.

We saw the largest response and mobilisation of An Garda Síochána in response to this horrific event. We also saw members coming from across the country. I have a report from the Garda Commissioner outlining what happened and how he and his team responded. As part of that response, yes, it was about sending messages to people as quickly as possible. Part of that plan does include WhatsApp. How does one contact someone as quickly as possible? We also saw gardaí getting into their cars because they wanted to support their colleagues. The two are not mutually exclusive. We saw the best of An Garda Síochána coming together to protect our city and those in it, and we owe them a debt of gratitude.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Helen McEntee

Of course there will be lessons learned, and there should be, from a catastrophic event of this size, and the Garda and we as a country will be the better for it.

Regarding the school and those children, I have been in contact with the principal numerous times. I have been in contact with the Garda – not just the Commissioner, but local gardaí at Store Street. I assure colleagues that, above all, every resource that the parents and staff at that school require will be made available to them. Gardaí are there and will be stationed there. It is not for me, Deputy O’Reilly or anyone else in the House to decide how policing should operate, but gardaí are working with and engaging with the school to ensure that whatever need it had and support it requires is made available to it. No matter what we discuss in the Chamber, they are the most important people in all of this at the end of the day.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The Minister is not, and cannot be, the person to provide the leadership necessary to resolve these issues because she will not even acknowledge that control was lost of Dublin city centre for several hours. She spoke about what we will not forget. We will not forget the sight of a lone garda on O’Connell Street beset on all sides and terrified. We will not forget that the GRA said there was no plan.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Sinn Féin knows all about terror.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

We will not forget that the Minister, who is supposed to provide leadership, does not even seem to understand the scale of the problem.

This picture shows what greeted those children six days after the traumatic and horrific event that happened to three of their classmates and one of their staff members. The school is terrified and traumatised. The school community wants answers and leadership, and it is getting neither from the Minister. This picture represents what Dublin city feels like to Dubliners on the Minister’s watch. You should resign.

Deputy Helen McEntee

We all have a role to be responsible in the House. The Deputy should consider that before she starts waving pictures around.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

No one is identifiable in the picture. The situation is very clear.

Deputy Helen McEntee

The Deputy has said a lot of things. Her party has said a lot of things.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

No one is identifiable in it.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

A vulnerable person.

Deputy Roderic O'Gorman

Disgraceful.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Helen McEntee

The Deputy's leader has said a lot of things since last Thursday. Not a single solution, not a single proposal and not a single thing of benefit has come out of Sinn Féin's mouth since last Thursday.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

We published those proposals months ago.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister without interruption.

Deputy Helen McEntee

Instead, Sinn Féin has used a tragic situation to sow division, to point score and to create instability. I thought for a second last week, when I rang all of the Dublin Central Deputies, for a split second, that we would be united in our determination to face down these absolute thugs, who wreaked havoc in our city centre for a period of time.

Instead, less than 24 hours later, Deputy O'Reilly's leader was standing on the edge of a criminal scene calling for heads.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The Minister lost control of Dublin city.

Deputy Helen McEntee

When I spoke to the Garda Commissioner and Garda members last week, I did so to offer my support. When the Deputy's leader rang the Garda Commissioner, it was to call for his head. When people in this country want stability, all Sinn Féin is interested in is providing instability.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Stability.

Deputy Helen McEntee

That is the difference between the Government and the Deputy's party.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

That is all the Minister can say.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We all continue to keep the victims of Thursday's awful attacks uppermost in our thoughts, particularly the child and care worker who are still in hospital. However, all of us, especially those of us in Dublin, are still waiting for a clear message from the Minister about what real action she and the rest of the Government are taking now to make the streets safe. We know the problem. There are simply not enough gardaí, including visible gardaí, and not enough support for front-line gardaí, who are, it seems, forced to communicate by WhatsApp. There has been a hands-off approach to policing the far right for far too long. Government TDs have been quick to accuse others of grandstanding and distracting from the crisis facing us. Undoubtedly, there has been grandstanding from the Opposition, including the waving in this House of a photograph of an identifiable person.

Deputy Pa Daly

The Deputy has not seen it. She is bluffing.

(Interruptions).

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It is outrageous grandstanding, and I want to call it out. I want to call out the waving in this House of a photograph of an identifiable individual on our streets. That is wrong.

Deputy Pa Daly

The individual is not identifiable.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

However, I also believe we have seen grandstanding by those in government, by Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael members who are desperately seeking to evade accountability by churning out calls that will do anything but address the real crisis facing policing. We have heard red herring calls, such as calls for cuts to benefits and for facial recognition technology, water cannons, dogs and more police powers.

We warned yesterday that the Minister cannot legislate her way out of this crisis – it is not about that – nor can she distract us with political theatre, such as asking the Policing Authority to provide clarity on the use of force. That is a farcical question because we know the Garda Commissioner and senior management are responsible for providing the training and guidance to gardaí on the proportionate use of force. The Policing Authority is not a legal adviser. Who has made this request and why? Was it the Commissioner who asked for clarity on the use of force, or is it merely a distraction tactic of the Minister? What people really want now is reassurance that our streets will be safe and attacks and riots will not happen again. We need accountability and more visible policing, not grandstanding from the Opposition or Government.

The Garda Commissioner is in charge of policing operations in the State and the Minister is politically responsible for policing. Last year, the whole Government, on the Minister's advice, extended the Commissioner's term of appointment to 2025. Under the Government members' combined watch, Garda numbers in Dublin have fallen. There are 200 gardaí fewer now on the streets than in 2020. Law and order are being eroded across the capital city's streets and our country.

There is a triple crisis within the Garda of morale, recruitment and retention, and I spoke about it yesterday. An overwhelming majority of rank-and-file gardaí have no confidence in their leadership, and more and more gardaí are simply leaving the force. A record 114 gardaí resigned up to the end of September and there were 851 voluntary retirements in the past three years, implying a force that is being hollowed out. The Minister needs to address morale issues and make training more attractive. Our communities need more gardaí on the streets, with a functioning leadership and real political accountability.

Will the Minister tell us whether Commissioner Harris asked for clarity on the use of force or was it her idea? What are she and the Commissioner doing to stop gardaí from resigning? At any point since Thursday, has the Commissioner offered to resign after what was a complete breakdown of law and order on the streets of Dublin?

Deputy Helen McEntee

I thank the Deputy for her contribution. I fully agree in that I do not believe this is the time for grandstanding and waving pictures. Again, I suggest to the Opposition that it think about what exactly it is trying to achieve here.

To respond to the Deputy's question about our capital city, there is much talk about the capital belonging to no one individual. It belongs to us all. There is not one of us who was not devastated by what happened last Thursday, by what happened the children and their families, and by the scenes we saw on O'Connell Street. However, I have been listening. I have been listening to members of the community in Dublin city centre and beyond. I have been listening to businesses and colleagues, and to women who told me some of them do not feel safe in our city centre, not just in the past four days or since the summer but since I became Minister. That is why we have had two stations opened in our city centre that were not open before I was Minister. That is why we have €10 million in additional funding for gardaí for our city centre. That is why a partnership has been established in our city centre, acknowledging that safety is not just about An Garda Síochána. That is why we have Operation Citizen, which was launched to ensure high-visibility policing. That is why the vast majority of members who have come out of the Garda College and the new recruits this year have gone to Dublin. That is why we are introducing body-worn cameras for gardaí and need facial recognition to ensure it will not take months to identify the thugs involved last Thursday. All the work I have been doing is being done because I have been listening to people's concerns. This work includes a zero-tolerance strategy, responding to concerns of women in our towns and cities and those who are vulnerable. It is to ensure people not only feel safe but also are safe in our city centre. I will do more. I am aware more needs to be done to support our shopkeepers, victims of theft and those who feel their staff are not safe. That is why I have been working closely with An Garda Síochána.

I have listened to and heard the concerns of business owners here in Dublin but also those in Cork, Limerick, Galway and my county, Meath, because the challenges we have in Dublin are replicated in other cities. I am absolutely committed, not just because of what happened on Thursday but because I, like every person in this House, want to ensure those who live in and visit our capital are and feel safe.

On working with the Garda Commissioner and the asks I have of the Policing Authority, I met Garda members as recently as the weekend. They say they feel they are looking over their shoulders regarding whether they can use appropriate force. When members of An Garda find themselves at risk when protecting themselves and others, I do not want them questioning their own judgment. This is not about questioning the training, An Garda Síochána or Templemore. This is about clarity for all our members so that when they find themselves in these difficult situations, they do not have to think twice. It is not about interfering in the work of anybody else. I do not want Garda members looking over their shoulders at any stage here.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

With respect, the Minister did not answer my questions. Certainly, this issue did not start around last Thursday afternoon. We know about these issues in the Garda concerning morale, recruitment and retention that have been building for so long. There was a lack of gardaí on the ground, not just last Thursday night but also for some time before that. Gardaí had to rely on WhatsApp to call on colleagues to come into town last Thursday. We have seen issues such as policing in Dublin being run on overtime for some time and policing nationwide being run on a shoestring by gardaí who feel they do not have the legitimate and requisite supports. It is not good enough. I asked the Minister whether the Commissioner had offered to resign, and I ask her again.

We believe there must be accountability and adequate support for gardaí. When the barricades come down around Leinster House and the temporary measures in place for December have ended, what will be done to ensure adequate supports for gardaí? What measures will the Minister and Commissioner take on this? Are they going to increase the training pay for gardaí? It is simply unacceptable that trainees do not get the full starting salary. We call on the Minister to encourage more gardaí to join the force and provide the necessary support and the necessary reassurance to the public to ensure this issue will not arise again. What is the Minister doing to reassure us that our streets can be safe, not just in Dublin but also across the country?

Deputy Helen McEntee

The Garda Commissioner has my full support and the full support of the Government. What am I doing? I want more gardaí. We all want more gardaí. I fully appreciate overtime is not the solution. I have increased the training allowance already by two thirds in the budget just gone. I have made sure that, when recruitment opens in January, those over 35 will be able to join. I am working with the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, to make sure Garda members due to retire soon, when they reach 60, can stay on for longer. I have worked closely with An Garda Síochána to ensure the process for getting recruits into Templemore is as fast and effective as possible. Since the first new recruits started last year, we have seen an increase in class sizes every three months. Five thousand people applied to become members of An Garda Síochána in the last recruitment campaign.

Because of that we will see between 700 and 800 new members this year. I have provided funding to ensure that we have enough money for between 800 and 1,000 next year. In response to the Deputy's figures relating to Dublin, in 2015 when the college opened again there were 3,491 members and there are now 3,742. We want more but I am doing everything in my power to make sure that we have as many gardaí on the streets as possible.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

Did the Commissioner offer to resign?

Deputy Mick Barry

I note the headline this morning: "Government may reconsider placing asylum seekers in areas where there is 'tension' says Minister" - the Minister, Deputy Coveney. I put it to the Minister that that is bowing to the pressure of the far right, that it will be seen as bowing to the pressure of the far right and that it will encourage the far right to stir up tension and say, "See, not here." There are also reports this morning that the State may not provide accommodation for asylum seekers who come in the next few days. People may end up sleeping rough on the streets. Is the Government seriously saying that at a time when people of colour, including workers and students, are nervous or afraid to come into town or to walk through town for even 15 or 20 minutes that it will force people to sleep on the streets all night - by the way in areas where there are particular tensions?

Last Thursday, a building which recently had been used for asylum seeker accommodation in Parnell Street had all its front windows smashed. In Finglas, a building earmarked for refugee accommodation was set ablaze in a petrol bomb attack. The Movement of Asylum Seekers in Ireland said there is fear and confusion in many direct provision centres. If people living in buildings with locked doors and security staff are feeling fearful, what will it be like for an asylum seeker who is forced to sleep rough on the streets? Sub-zero temperatures might be the least of their problems.

All along the line the Government has underestimated the far right and now that the far right is sufficiently emboldened to pose a real risk to life and limb, the Government is about to make the same mistakes again. Does the Minister not remember what happened at Sandwith Street last May? There might as well have been targets painted on the backs of those people who were forced to sleep out in tents and then violently attacked, with their tents and belongings burned out.

The chief executive of the Irish Refugee Council said this morning that there are 6,000 people in IPAS accommodation who have status and are legally entitled to source alternative accommodation but they cannot because there is none. Those are 6,000 places that could avert this crisis but Fine Gael's housing crisis has knocked that possibility on the head. There is a lot of vacant property in this State owned by business interests who are speculating on the housing crisis. I support the State taking over that accommodation and using it to accommodate all of the 13,000 people in emergency accommodation and others including asylum seekers coming to this State. That is the emergency legislation that we need not the emergency legislation the Government is talking about. If it brings it forward, we will happily vote for it.

Can the Minister give this House a guarantee that no asylum seeker will be denied accommodation and that no asylum seeker will be forced to sleep rough on our streets in the weeks ahead?

Deputy Helen McEntee

I thank the Deputy for his question and for raising this issue. As a country of emigrants, we have always welcomed people into our country - those who wish to live, work and set down roots here. We have also welcomed and will continue to welcome those who seek our help and seek international protection be it those coming from Ukraine who are in receipt of temporary protection or international protection applicants.

As a country we have seen a significant increase in those seeking protection in recent years. We have gone from on average about 3,000 people seeking international protection to last year 15,000 people reaching our shores and this year to date it is over 10,000 people. At every step of the way we have done everything in our power to ensure that we are committed to and respond to our international obligations, that we provide support, that we provide a roof over people's heads and that we make sure that people who need our help receive it. That will not change. Of course, there are pressures in moving from a figure of 3,000 to 15,000 in a year. Of course, there would be pressures with 100,000 people coming from Ukraine. However, we have responded to this challenge. The people of this country have responded to this challenge and we will continue to respond to this challenge.

The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, working with his Department and supported by the entire Government, is working to identify new centres and new accommodation. Yes, that includes tented accommodation. It is not what we would want but it is better to have a roof over people's head and to support them in whatever way that we can. Yes, there are real pressures at the moment on international protection and accommodation. However, let me reassure the Deputy that if the Department is unable to provide accommodation for anyone, mitigation measures will be put in place. We saw that before and it will happen again.

I again reassure Deputies that my Department and An Garda Síochána are working closely with the international protection system to make sure that any person who is vulnerable, that any person or any centre that is under attack or feels that they may be under attack is supported by members of An Garda Síochána. Last Thursday, when things escalated and where there was concern among the migrant community, members of An Garda Síochána responded immediately. In those centres in our city centre where concerns were raised and where people were rightly fearful, members of An Garda Síochána responded to keep them safe. The feedback I have received has been nothing but positivity in terms of the support that people are receiving not just from gardaí, but from the vast majority of people in this country.

Yes, there are significant challenges; I do not think anybody has shied away from that. However, we will fulfil our obligations and we will absolutely make sure that those who are entitled to and those who deserve international protection will receive that from us.

Deputy Mick Barry

I note that I did not get a guarantee that people will not be forced to sleep rough. The Minister spoke about mitigation measures, tented accommodation and a roof over the head. Tented accommodation is not a roof over the head, by the way. That is an important point. It is significant that while the Government is talking about putting on the agenda facial recognition technology, water cannon, stronger pepper spray, more riot police and more dogs - in other words more State repression - it is failing to deal with the social crisis in society. It is failing to deal with the issue of asylum seekers that I have raised and is failing to deal with the issue of homelessness that I have raised. What is needed is precisely the opposite. It is not more law and order and more oppression. It is tackling the social crisis, the issue of asylum seekers, the issue of homelessness and the housing crisis in our society.

Deputy Helen McEntee

The very people the Deputy is speaking about, those who are marginalised in our community and those who are seeking international protection, are the very people that those thugs and scumbags on Thursday night sought to intimidate. The measures I am putting in place to support the Garda, be it more gardaí, better armour, better equipment, body cameras so that they can have a proper account of what is happening, facial recognition to make sure that these people are identified as quickly as possible-----

Deputy Paul Murphy

I will tell the Minister who they are. Gardaí do not need facial recognition technology.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I am putting in place whatever the Garda needs to make sure that everybody - not just us, not just those who were born in this country but that every single person in this country - is protected, and that we support the Garda to do its job in that regard. I repeat that we have provided accommodation with 10,000 beds for international protection applicants in the last 11 months alone. Some 5,000 children in the last two years have been given accommodation. We will do whatever we can to protect those who need our support. That will not change.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Is lá thar a bheith tábhachtach do mhuintir na Palaistíne é seo. Beidh deireadh leis an sos cogaidh inniu muna ngéilleann Iosrael don bhrú leanúint ar aghaidh leis. Chomh maith leis sin, is lá faoi leith é seo, Lá Idirnáisiúnta um Dhlúthpháirtíocht le Muintir na Palaistíne, atá ag tarlú gach bliain ó 1977. Chomh maith leis sin, ar an lá seo in 1947, ghlac Comhthionól Ginearálta na Náisiún Aontaithe le rún a chur tús leis an gcríochdheighilt agus leis an réiteach dhá-thír.

Today is a very special and important day for the people of Palestine on three levels. Today will see the end of the ceasefire, unless Israel sees sense. On this date, every year since 1977, following the General Assembly decision, we have a solidarity day with the people of Palestine. That in itself tells you something. On this day 76 years ago in 1947, the General Assembly adopted the resolution of the partition of Palestine, a decision that saw a two-state solution put forward as the only solution.

The actions and the war of Israel have put an end to a two-state solution. Not only are they saying that history started on 7 October, when Hamas, which I have condemned without hesitation, attacked Israel, they have persisted with a narrative of self-defence. The Secretary General of the UN called the killing of civilians unparalleled and unprecedented. Some 14,800 Palestinians have been reported killed, and that is an underestimate. A substantial number of them are children. Some 1.7 million have been displaced. Along with that, the story that has not been reported at all involves the West Bank. The West Bank and East Jerusalem together are 10% smaller than the size of County Galway. In that area, there are 3 million people and 700,000 Israeli settlers are in there now in 279 settlements, making a two-state solution impossible or nigh-on impossible. Since 7 October, 240 people have been killed, mostly by settlers in the West Bank. This is parallel with the slaughter that is taking place in Gaza.

We have to use our voice and not speak out of two sides of our mouth, or six sides of our mouth, as has been happening. I have praised the Tánaiste and the Taoiseach for their initiative, but that has not continued. We need a ceasefire, full stop. We need to call out Israel for what it is doing, which is the Israeli Government and the Prime Minister, who has been in office for almost 16 years out of 27 years, leading the slaughter and the dehumanising language that is going along with that.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I join her in condemning the actions of Hamas, which is a terrorist organisation that brutally murdered innocent civilians. I, too, call for a ceasefire. What we are seeing unfold in response to this brutal attack is devastating. I believe that Israel has gone too far. I have said time and again, and I think I join with all colleagues here, that they must respond within international and humanitarian law-----

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

They are not doing that.

Deputy Helen McEntee

-----and what we are seeing does not seem to be in line with that. We have provided additional funding to the international court. We will provide €1.3 million annually and €3 million in additional funding for this year to make sure those who are potentially responsible for any crimes are held accountable. The most important thing now, however, is that the ceasefire we have called for happens, that the pause, which we were all very happy to see, continues, and that the release of hostages continues. We are all overjoyed that Emily Hand, an Irish citizen, was released and that many other citizens were released, but it is so important that not only are those citizens released, but that there is continued aid, resources, food and fuel sent to the millions of people in Gaza who need our support and who need help. We have been united and clear in that message all along. The Taoiseach, Tánaiste and the vast majority of people in this House have been clear in our support for those citizens. We have been clear in our support and our calling for a ceasefire and that will not change.

The Taoiseach has engaged extensively with his colleagues. The Tánaiste has engaged extensively with his colleagues, not just for the release of hostages and to ensure that humanitarian aid is provided on the ground but to make sure we have a ceasefire so we can all collectively work towards a solution. As a country and a Government, we have always said that solution is a two-state solution. That has not changed. I know for many it seems like an impossibility at this time, but the time will come when this discussion can be had and where it should be had. It is so important we are part of that. Our voice will remain strong on the world stage and the European stage. I have no doubt our Taoiseach, our Tánaiste and all of us, as we engage with our colleagues at a European level and beyond, will continue to call for a ceasefire, the release of all hostages, the immediate aid that is needed by millions of people, and for this fighting to come to an end.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I have done my best in three minutes to give the Minister a background, but still she stands up and condemns Hamas without condemning-----

Deputy Paul Murphy

Yes.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

-----what the Israeli army or the Government are doing.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

She just did.

Deputy Paul Murphy

She did not.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

That is talking out of six sides-----

Deputy Simon Harris

You did not listen.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I did listen. You have not condemned the actions of Israel or its army.

Deputy James Browne

Read the transcript.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Let me quote to her in the time I have. Thirty-six UN experts, on 16 November, raised the alarm about the risk of genocide. Professor William Schabas, who is a professor of international law, also raised what was happening in terms of genocide. Going back, Amnesty International told the Government that Israel is operating an apartheid system, and nobody has come back in relation to the report. Human Rights Watch has repeatedly told the Government what is happening there. I am outlining to the Minister what is happening in the West Bank that it is completely going under the radar. Israel is waiting-----

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

No.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

The shaking of the heads tells its own story when the Government cannot listen to facts.

Deputy Simon Harris

You are misrepresenting our position.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

I am sticking to facts. Israel cannot wait to go back on the pretence of getting rid of Hamas. What it is really doing is destroying Palestine and the Palestinian people while you nod and shake your heads in relation to it.

Deputy Simon Harris

Do not misrepresent us.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

It is time to stand together and make words mean something. Stop the slaughter and have a ceasefire that allows for a comprehensive peace plan. That is the very least this neutral country should be doing.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I think that is what I have just done. I think that is what I said a number of times in my short contribution-----

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

Yes.

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell

Hear, hear.

Deputy Helen McEntee

-----that we as a country were one of the first countries to call for a ceasefire. We have consistently called for a ceasefire. We have consistently repeated that what Israel is doing is going too far.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

Going too far? It is international law on genocide.

Deputy Helen McEntee

We have consistently said that they have a right to defend themselves. It is not for us in this Chamber to decide that.

Deputy Catherine Connolly

It is for us to listen to people who are telling us.

Deputy Simon Harris

It is a matter for the court.

Deputy Helen McEntee

We have provided funding to the experts who will decide this. The most important thing here is that hostages are released, the hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians receive the aid they need and this fighting stops. That is what we all want in this Chamber. The only way that will happen is if we continue to call for a ceasefire and use our voice. As small as we might be, our voice around the table has always been strong on these issues. Our continuing to use our voice in the way we have is the only way in which this fighting will stop. We will be sure to be around the table when it does to make sure a solution that focuses on peace is the way forward.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

Israel is not interested in peace.