Amendments No. 1 is in the name of the Minister of State, and recommittal is necessary. Amendments Nos. 1, 4, 7 and 8 are related and will be discussed together.
Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023: Report and Final Stages
Bill recommitted in respect of amendment No. 1.
I move amendment No. 1:
In page 3, line 7, to delete “Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Act 2017;” and substitute the following:
“Electoral (Amendment) (Dáil Constituencies) Act 2017; to give effect to European Council Decision (EU) 2023/2061 of 22 September 2023 establishing the composition of the European Parliament; and for that purpose to revise European Parliament constituencies; to provide for the number of members to be elected for such European Parliament constituencies; to amend the European Parliament Elections Act 1997;”.
The provisions of the Electoral (Amendment) Bill 2023, as they currently stand, give effect to the recommendations of An Coimisiún Toghcháin in respect of the total membership of the next Dáil and for the revised Dáil constituencies. The Bill does not provide for revisions to our European Parliament constituencies. On Second Stage and Committee Stage, my colleague, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O’Brien, indicated that amendments would be required in respect of the revision of our constituencies for the European Parliament elections, following the adoption of the European Council decision on 22 September 2023 which, among other matters, allocated an additional seat for Ireland, raising our total complement of seats to 14 in the next European Parliament.
As Members will be aware, An Coimisiún Toghcháin published its European Parliament constituencies report on Monday of last week, 20 November. In its report, An Coimisiún has recommended a three-constituency configuration. Dublin will remain unchanged at four seats. South will retain five seats but will transfer the counties of Laois and Offaly to the Midlands-North-West constituency. The Midlands-North-West constituency, with the addition of Counties Laois and Offaly, will increase to five seats. That figure has gone up by one. In broad terms, amendments Nos. 1 and 4 propose to amend the European Parliament Elections Act 1987 in order to provide for the revisions of our European Parliament constituencies, as recommended by An Coimisiún Toghcháin and for the number of MEPs to be elected to each of these constituencies.
The amendments proposed to section 6, namely, amendments Nos. 7 and 8, are consequential and arise on foot of amendments Nos. 1 and 4.
Amendment agreed to.
Bill reported with amendment.
I move amendment No. 2:
In page 3, lines 26 and 27, to delete “the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage” and substitute “An Coimisiún Toghcháin”.
I addressed the matter to which the amendment relates on Committee Stage. This is a technical amendment. We are simply seeking to replace the reference to the Minister with a reference to the commission in recognition of the fact that while previous Acts referred to the Minister, they predated the establishment of a permanent and independent Electoral Commission. We did have a debate on this on Committee Stage. I tabled the amendment again to simply make the point that believe, as I said on Committee Stage, we need to ensure our legislation is up to date. We are simply seeking to deal with this in a constructive manner without in any way seeking to challenge a question the commission’s report. This is just to ensure the legislation reflects the changing context. I refer in particular to a change where we have now established a very welcome new commission, An Coimisiún Toghcháin. The reference should now be to that.
I thank Deputy Bacik for raising this matter. Amendment No. 2 proposes to amend section 3(2) by substituting "An Coimisiún Toghcháin" for "the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage". Section 3(2) is a standard provision that has been inserted into the constituency revisions Acts dating back to 1923. It provides a means of resolving disputes over which constituencies containing particular townlands or electoral divisions. The proposed legislation is framed in such a way as to preclude any such doubt but, because neighbouring towns or electoral divisions can have identical or similar names, the possibility of confusion cannot be ruled out.
While the Minister has not had to exercise his or her function under analogous sections in previous enactments within living memory, it is nonetheless desirable to retain the proposed provision in case a genuine doubt arises. Ultimately, this provides for the removal of any doubt that may arise as to whether an electoral division or townland, or any part or parts thereof, is included in a particular constituency. It is not intended to provide for amending any of the constituencies, as set out the Schedule to the Bill. The practical effect of the proposed amendment would be to provide that An Coimisiún Toghcháin, rather than the Minister, would be the adjudicator if any such arises.
While I accept that the amendment is well-intentioned and acknowledge that the establishment of permanent and independent Electoral Commission with statutory responsibility for constituency review does change the field in this manner, I would nonetheless make the case that there is still a merit in this function remaining with the Minister for a number of reasons. First, the Minister is responsible for the development of policy and legislation in connection with the holding of elections and is the sponsor of the Bill. The retention of this function is consistent with the Minister's responsibilities on elections and electoral law more generally. An Coimisiún Toghcháin makes recommendations in respect of constituency boundaries. After that, it is a matter for the Minister to bring forward legislative proposals for the consideration of the Oireachtas, just as we are now doing with this Bill.
Second, while An Coimisiún Toghcháin may be well-placed to clarify any doubts relating to the description of constituencies, as set out in the Schedule to the Bill on the grounds that it mirrors the recommendations set out in the constituency review report of 2023, matters relating to the precise boundary of an electoral division or a townland may more accurately fall within the remit of the national mapping division of Tailte Éireann.
Third, I believe that in the unlikely event that doubt may arise as to whether electoral division or townland or part or parts thereof is included a particular constituency, the Minister in situ will consult with all relevant bodies, including An Coimisiún Toghcháin and Tailte Éireann in advance of making a determination in this matter. For these reasons, I cannot support amendment No. 2.
That is a very similar response to one the Minister, Deputy O’Brien, offered on Committee Stage. I accept the points the Minister of State makes but, again, we are simply seeking to ensure the Bill is sufficiently future-proofed. The other two amendments we tabled are also designed for the same purpose.
Amendment put and declared lost.
I move amendment No. 3:
In page 3, between lines 27 and 28, to insert the following:
“(3) An Coimisiún Toghcháin shall conduct research and, within 18 months of the passing of this Act, make such recommendations as it considers appropriate to Dáil Éireann on—
(a) an appropriate reconstitution of electoral divisions in the State in accordance with objective criteria that take into account the size and distribution of the population, and
(b) discontinuance of the use of former rural districts,
for the purpose of defining and revising Dáil constituencies and local electoral areas.”.
This amendment aims to seek that the Bill is future-proofed and fit for purpose. In particular, we are seeking to require An Coimisiún Toghcháin to conduct research and make recommendations on appropriate reconstitution of electoral divisions in accordance with objective criteria. Again, this is to try to ensure there is future-proofing and that objective criteria will always be used.
In particular, the discontinuance of the use of former rural districts. The rural district designation was abolished a hundred years ago in 1925 and it seems anomalous to us that we are still, in 2023 legislation, in section 1 of this Bill, referring to former rural districts rather than simply discontinuing their use and updating the language and the terminology.
Again, we are seeking to be constructive. I had a discussion with the Minister, Deputy Ryan, on Committee Stage on the research programme for An Coimisiún Toghcháin and I hope, whether this amendment passes or not, that the commission will undertake research and make recommendations on the particular issues which we have identified here.
Again, I thank Deputy Bacik for raising this particular issue. Amendment No. 3 proposes to insert a new subsection 3 into the section 3 of the Bill to require An Coimisiún Toghcháin to undertake detailed research within a period of 18 months from the enactment of the Bill on an appropriate reconstitution of electoral divisions in the State, and on the discontinuance of using former rural districts in the description of our Dáil constituencies for the purposes of providing a more up-to-date and objective approach in the process of constituency review and design.
Essentially, the proposed amendment would require An Coimisiún Toghcháin to carry out a particular piece of research on the future design and make up of Dáil constituencies. On this note, Members will be aware that earlier this month on 9 November 2023 An Coimisiún Toghcháin published a draft research programme from 2024 to 2026 setting out a number of items of intended research. It has also announced a public consultation on the draft research programme inviting all interested parties to make submissions on the draft programme and on any additional research projects that may be considered important to promote and enhance Ireland’s democracy and electoral events. I understand that the deadline for the receipt of submissions is 12 January 2024 and I urge all political parties and all those with an interest in our democratic and political system to first of all look at the draft programme. It offers a hugely exciting opportunity with different research strands and I urge all parties to engage in this process because I believe it will be of great value to us all here.
Notwithstanding the current public consultation process, An Coimisiún Toghcháin is required in accordance with its obligations under the Electoral Reform Act 2022 to consult with, among others, the Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage in preparing and finalising its research programme. In light of the public consultation process which is currently underway, and the requirement of An Coimisiún Toghcháin to consult with the committee, I believe it is not necessary to legislate for a specific item of research to be provided for in the Bill. The inclusion of the proposed item of research in an coimisiún’s research programme can be considered over the course of discussions to can take place during the consultation between the committee and An Coimisiún Toghcháin.
Again, I urge Deputy Bacik and the Labour Party to make a submission on a proposed research programme which would be most useful. In this regard I am not in a position to accept this amendment.
Amendment put and declared lost.
I move amendment No. 4:
In page 3, after line 30, to insert the following:
“Amendment of European Parliament Elections Act 1997
5. The European Parliament Elections Act 1997 is amended—
(a) in section 15, by the substitution of the following subsection for subsection (3):
“(3) An area specified in the Third Schedule shall be taken to be that area as constituted on 1 October 2023.”,
(b) in rule 88 of Part XI of the Second Schedule, by the deletion of paragraphs (5) and (6),
and
(c) by the substitution of the following Schedule for the Third Schedule:
“Third Schedule
Section 15
CONSTITUENCIES
|
Constituency |
Area |
Number of Members |
|
Dublin |
The counties of: Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin; and the city of Dublin. |
4 |
|
Midlands-North-West |
The counties of: Cavan, Donegal, Galway, Kildare, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Meath, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo and Westmeath; and the city of Galway. |
5 |
|
South |
The counties of: Carlow, Clare, Cork, Kerry, Kilkenny, Tipperary, Wexford and Wicklow; the cities and counties of Limerick and Waterford; and the city of Cork. |
5 |
Amendment agreed to.
I move Amendment No. 5:
In page 3, after line 30, to insert the following:
“Research on revision of Dáil constituencies
5. In relation to the revision of Dáil constituencies, An Coimisiún Toghcháin shall within 24 months of the passing of this Act conduct research and make such recommendations as it considers appropriate to Dáil Éireann on—
(a) the abolition of constituencies returning three members, and
(b) the specification for an indeterminate period of the number of members of which Dáil Éireann is to be composed and of the constituencies to be represented by the members, while varying from time to time the number of members to be elected for each such constituency having regard to changes in the distribution of the population throughout the State.”.
I move this amendment and again it is in similar form to the previous amendment I put forward.
It is again seeking to require An Coimisiún Toghcháin to conduct research on two specific issues. First, on the abolition of constituencies returning three members. Secondly, a specification for an indeterminate period, that is indefinitely, with regard to the fixed number of members for the Dail and a fixed set of boundaries for constituencies.
We are asking An Coimisiún Toghcháin to conduct research into this. Again, I stress, this is an attempt to be constructive and to ensure future-proofing. I believe we are all agreed that the most recent exercise by the Electoral Commission will have to be repeated after the next census results are published. The report of the Electoral Commission made clear that the exclusion of provision for six-seat constituencies and the continued use of three-seaters set the parameters for its deliberations. I know that the Minister of State's own party and my own expressly wanted to see provision made for six-seat constituencies. It is not just that we believe that they might be more favourable to smaller parties, as indeed they are, but much more importantly, they are more reflective of people voting intentions.
There is an excellent article by Professor Michael Gallagher on 6 September in The Irish Times, a noted political science scholar, who talks about the need to ensure the most representative system is in place. Indeed, it was Professor Gallagher's article which inspired us to put into this amendment the requirement that the commission would research and report on providing for a system with fixed-size Dáil and a fixed number of constituencies because the number of members to be elected for each constituency could then be changed from time to time, to reflect changes in the distribution of the population.
The advantage for people and for voters would be that they would not see themselves moving between constituencies and we would not see county boundaries being breached, as we have done in every constituency with every report from electoral commissions over the years. This would be a way of future-proofing and of ensuring greater certainty and stability for people who are voting.
I spoke before about my loss of Kimmage C Ward in Dublin Bay South. This was not my loss but it was the loss of that ward to the Dublin Bay South constituency for the next election. That ward has moved in and out of Dublin South Central and what was Dublin South-East, and is now Dublin Bay South, over many years. We all know different examples. We have all seen this with Wexford and Cork where constituency boundaries have been drawn and redrawn. People then no longer have certainty over the electoral area in which they live and over the make-up of the of the political representation they will have. We believe, and indeed Professor Gallagher makes the point very persuasively, that it would be more representative and would be a better way to support our democratic system to have that model in place and, indeed, to allow for six-seater constituencies, so in the proportional representation single transferable vote, PRSTV, system people's voting preferences would be more closely acknowledged and recognised in the Dáil. I am not going to press this to a full vote but I want to press it to a voice vote because we believe it is a very important principle.
There was also an amendment we had put down which was ruled out of order which I know that I raised earlier with the Minister of State about ruling out the publication of postal addresses of candidates in elections, local and national, and I say again that that is an important area. The Labour Party will certainly be putting all of these matters into the submission we will be making to the Electoral Commission in the context of the research programme it is devising and we are very hopeful, even if the amendments are not passed, that we will see the Electoral Commission making recommendations. We believe these are all vitally important issues for the governance of future elections.
Again I agree with the points raised by the Deputy and I thank her for the constructive engagement. The research programme, as I have said, will be very broad and is as broad as the input which comes in from members of the public and from political parties. We would most certainly welcome any proposals around the size of Dáil constituencies, the fixed number of constituencies and there is limitless potential here for research with the commission. Earlier today I gave a commitment that we would send a note back out on the concerns potential new candidates might have over having their postal addresses on ballot papers. We will also give some feedback in that regard.
Amendment No. 5 proposes to insert a new section 5 into the Bill to require An Coimisiún Toghcháin to undertake detailed research, within a period of two years from the enactment of the Bill, on the abolition of three-seat constituencies and on a system which has a fixed-size, a fixed number of constituencies, with the number of members to be elected for each constituency to be changed from time to time to be aligned with the changes in the distribution of the population throughout the State.
At the outset, I should say that I am supportive of independent and objective research being carried out to strengthen, promote and enhance Ireland's democracy and our electoral process. That is why we established An Coimisiún Toghcháin and assigned it a very specific function to carry out research on electoral matters.
While I accept that the amendment is well-intentioned I do not propose to accept it for similar reasons I gave in respect of amendment No. 3. As already noted, An Coimisiún Toghcháin has published the draft research programme and is currently holding public consultation to ascertain the views of all interested parties on its research proposals. This House might wish to note that An Coimisiún Toghcháin has already signalled in its recent draft research programme that it intends to carry out research into the issue of representation and the manner in which the overall number of TDs is determined in the context of the rising population and the current constitutional and legal provisions in this area, as well as research on constituency magnitude, including the merits of constituencies larger than five seats.
I know that Ms Justice Baker has already made that commitment around this research piece so I believe that that is to be welcomed.
Accordingly, and in light of the fact that An Coimisiun Toghcháin is already committed to undertaking research into the future size of Dáil Éireann and the possible future make up of Dáil constituencies I do not believe it necessary to legislate for these particular items of research to be provided for in this Bill.
Again, I am opposing this amendment.
Amendment put and declared lost.
Amendment No. 6 is out of order.
Amendment No. 6 not moved.
Bill recommitted in respect of amendments Nos. 7 and 8.
I move amendment No 7:
In page 4, line 7, to delete “this Act” and substitute “this Act (other than section 5)”.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No 8:
In page 4, after line 8, to insert the following:
“(3) The European Parliament Elections Acts 1992 to 2022 and section 5 may be cited together as the European Parliament Elections Acts 1992 to 2023 and shall be construed together as one.”.
Amendment agreed to.
Bill reported with amendments.
I move amendment No 9:
In page 7, to delete lines 4 and 5 and substitute the following:
|
Cork South-Central |
The city of Cork, except the parts thereof which are comprised in the constituencies of Cork North-Central and Cork North-West |
5 |
Amendment No. 9 is intended to correct a typographical error in the specification of the constituency of Cork South-Central in a Schedule to the Bill. An Coimisiún Toghcháin has confirmed there was a typographical error in the specification of that constituency in appendix 1 to its Constituency Review Report 2023 published on 30 August 2023. The Schedule to the Bill is taken from appendix 1 of an coimisiún's Constituency Review Report 2023.
That is effectively what I was expecting. I just wanted to confirm that my understanding was correct. Kudos to whomever spotted it. It seems like a very small part of the estate of Classes Lake on the Ballincollig-Ovens boundary. It is just about within the city council boundary and, therefore, Cork North-West. I just wanted to confirm that is the case and it is all in keeping with it. It is a peculiarity but there you go; we get these peculiarities.
I will take the opportunity to make a point I made previously. We talk about electoral divisions and things like that in locations that would previously have been rural. Traditionally, when the electoral divisions were first drafted, places that might have been rural were then built up or are brought into cities. The old electoral division boundaries can be quite large and take in a very large population which means that as building blocks, they are not very useful. They are not very easily devisable. The Douglas electoral division in Cork, which is now in the city council, has some 35,000 or 40,000 people in it. It becomes very difficult then to redraw wards and constituencies. I am sure the Department has 1 million other things that might be of higher priority. However, if things are happening with regard to the Electoral Commission and so forth, the building blocks in urban areas that might traditionally have been rural are a bit out of date because they are physically too large for the population that is in them. They are too populous really as well.
I concur with the Deputy. He made a valid point. I ask him and his party to make a submission regarding the research in question. It is a very important point, and it is something to which the commission could give consideration in its research programme next year.
Amendment agreed to.
Bill, as amended, received for final consideration and passed.
The Bill will now be sent to the Seanad. I thank everyone for their co-operation.