Vol. 1050 No. 3
6. Deputy Colm Burke asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science what progress has been made to date to increase radiation therapy course places in Trinity College Dublin and University College Cork; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9085/24]
Will the Minister outline what progress has been made to increase the number of radiation therapy course places at Trinity College Dublin and University College Cork, and will he make a statement on the matter?
I thank my party colleague, Deputy Burke, not just for raising this matter but also for meeting with me on the issue. We had a really good engagement, which I will return to in a moment. Expanding the number of places available on health and social care profession programmes is a significant priority for my Department. It is so important for the delivery of healthcare services and cancer care to people throughout our country. Last year, I announced more than 400 additional permanent places on healthcare programmes for the current academic year, which started in September 2023. This included five additional places on the radiation therapy programme at Trinity College Dublin.
I know the Deputy appreciates there are certain issues at play that can constrain expansion in radiation therapy. In particular, these relate to the securing of additional placements and practice tutors in the health sector. I had an excellent meeting with him and representatives from the Trinity College Dublin and University College Cork radiation therapy programmes, as well as a number of radiation therapy professionals, last October. We discussed proposals that would see an expansion of student numbers on the radiation therapy programmes at both Trinity and University College Cork. Given the requirements for additional clinical placements and practice tutors, the Deputy’s proposal was passed to the Department of Health for its input on those two key elements.
Officials from both Departments met representatives of the two universities on 6 February to further explore how we could deliver this further expansion in student numbers. I am pleased to say both institutions undertook to provide further information to the Department of Health on placement and practice tutor requirements. I understand some funding has been allocated by the Department of Health to support the development of sustainable practice education for health and social care professions this year. The national health and social care professions office at the HSE is co-ordinating this process and leading on a number of programmes to support practice education.
In short, there is a great willingness from both Departments to do something in this area, as well as from Trinity, UCC, the Deputy and professionals in this area. We now need to bottom out the clinical placement and practice tutor elements, and if we can do that, we can make significant progress in the weeks ahead.
I thank the Minister. As we outlined at the meeting in October, there are 30 training places per annum at Trinity and 12 master's degree courses at UCC. The master's programme is a two-year programme, whereas at Trinity it is a four-year course. I understand that for somebody who is studying diagnostic radiography, there is financial support for them to complete that course and, as a result, they sign a contract committing to two years' work with the HSE. The problem is that people who are qualifying as radiation therapists are being enticed into the private sector with bonuses. Could a grant or scholarship scheme be put in place for those doing the master's programme in Cork? The reason this is a priority area is that there is currently a 39% shortage of radiation therapists at CUH and scanners in that hospital as well as in Galway University Hospital and some of the Dublin hospitals are not operating.
I thank the Deputy. We will come back to him.
The Deputy and I, and I think everyone in this House, will agree everyone wants all scanners in all hospitals to be used to their full capacity. There is not a family in Ireland who have not been touched by cancer. If we can provide the best use of the equipment in which this State has invested and empower the incredible professionals to work with that equipment by providing them with more colleagues, that is a good thing and it is something on which we should all bang our heads together to try to make progress. I am grateful for and acknowledge the work of the Minister and Department for Health in working with my Department and officials in this regard.
My understanding of the meeting that took place in February is that both Trinity and UCC were asked to provide further information to the Department of Health on a number of areas. Both institutions indicated they would be in a position to expand their numbers of places from this September but that they would need clarity some time next month. I understand one institution has come back with an updated proposal and we are expecting the other one to do so shortly, which will be key.
In respect of bursaries, the short answer, in the time available to me, is that that is a matter for the HSE as the employer, but it is something I will take back to the agency and the Department of Health on foot of the Deputy's intervention.
In fairness, since October, the Minister has done a great deal of work on this, as have his departmental officials and the Department of Health. I do not want in any way to undermine the work that has been done, but I believe this is a priority. The information I have is that two linear accelerators in Dublin hospitals are not being used, while the same is true of one linear accelerator and one CT scanner at CUH. At University Hospital Galway, there is one linear accelerator, while a new CT scanner that is to be put in place there will not be used either. This is because we do not have enough radiation therapists, and anyone who is qualifying at the moment is being enticed into the private sector. We really have to act fast on this. I fully accept the Minister is doing his best as regards the places being created, but this is something we need to be able to respond to within a short timeframe.
The Deputy is entirely correct. There are two parts to this. We have to both train enough people and retain enough people in the health service and, obviously, issues of retention are for my colleague the Minister for Health. Nevertheless, I understand a local arrangement is in place between the HSE South/South West Hospital Group whereby the former provides support to diagnostic radiography students of about €5,000 per annum in return for the two-year commitment to which the Deputy referred. There is also a long-standing arrangement in place with the HSE and the former health boards to recruit trainee clinical psychologists and to sponsor their training as well. There are examples, therefore, of where this can be done, and I will certainly relay the Deputy’s feedback to the Minister for Health.
More broadly, the Deputy is entirely correct. My Department’s job is to work with other line Departments and agencies to make sure we provide enough places at our higher education institutions to train the students and graduates we require for the health service, the public service and the needs of industry. There is little more important than cancer care and radiation therapy. It is a vital area and there is a strong willingness in both Departments to make this work if we can get the progress on those clinical placements and tutors. I would ask both institutions to intensively engage with both Departments in the coming days, as I know they will, to try to make progress on this.
8. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he plans to develop Skillnet Ireland in its capacity to accelerate adaptation to the challenges of sustainability and digital transformation of business models. [9082/24]
I am asking this question on behalf of Deputy Bruton. Will the Minister outline the extent to which he plans to develop Skillnet Ireland in its capacity to accelerate adaptation to the challenges of sustainability and the digital transformation of business models?
As both Deputies Durkan and Bruton will be aware, the digital transition fund, administered by Enterprise Ireland on behalf of the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, aims to increase the digitisation of all businesses in respect of products, processes, supply chains and business models. It seeks to help companies at all stages of their digital journey, from simply going online, in the first instance, to using digital technologies to develop new markets and business models.
In recent months, my Department has supported the roll-out of the Department of enterprise's digital portal to support the transition fund, in addition to the €1 million I was pleased to announce in budget 2024 to bolster Skillnet Ireland's capacity to support industry digitisation. For the first time ever, we are going to launch an SME incentivisation scheme, with €1 million to help small businesses begin to upskill and reskill in the areas of digital transition and climate transition. The pilot will aim to boost participation in lifelong learning in the small and medium enterprise sector and is anticipated to be up and running later this year.
Skillnet Ireland's already-extensive work in this space is impressive and I thank the agency for it. It is working to address the twin challenges of our time, namely, the green and digital transitions. In total, more than 19,200 workers benefited from sustainability in digital transformation upskilling programmes in 2022. The agency has a series of targeted initiatives, including the climate ready academy, the innovation exchange and its industry- and region-specific business networks, each with its own objectives. Through its national schemes and dedicated digital focus networks, Skillnet Ireland is also supporting our national digital strategy by delivering increased upskilling and talent development initiatives needed to accelerate high-level digital skills in new and emerging technologies and to help achieve the EU target of 90% of our small and medium enterprises having basic digital intensity by 2030. My Department will continue to work closely with Skillnet Ireland this year to further strengthen its already-significant contribution in these areas.
I thank the Minister. To what extent has he been in a position to identify weaknesses within the system and specific areas where business and enterprise might be under pressure to meet the challenges of the future?
Does the Minister believe sufficient resources are available to those businesses and to Skillnet Ireland to meet those challenges?
The Deputy has asked an excellent follow-up question. On resources, we are increasing the budget of Skillnet Ireland, which is an incredible agency, massively. The budget of this organisation in 2017 was €18.2 million. In 2024 the budget is core funding of €41.4 million plus a further €10 million. We have gone from €18.2 million to €51.498 million between 2017 and 2024. Year on year we have been investing more in Skillnet to help it meet the training, upskilling and reskilling needs of business.
The honest answer is that there are two areas of challenge. The first is that SMEs need to be supported with the costs of accessing training. SMEs that do not have a HR department or an education department still need to be able to find a way to help their workers to upskill and reskill. That is so important and it is what makes the SME incentivisation scheme so important, providing financial assistance to small and medium businesses, for the first time, to meet their upskilling and reskilling needs. The second area is life-long learning and making sure education is provided in an accessible way so the person in work can access upskilling while holding down a job.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. What advice would he give to industry and businesses of all sizes in the face of the challenges that lie ahead, given the supports that are available through Skillnet?
I am very reluctant to give advice to business owners because I know how hard they work at the coalface. They have to make wage bills every week and month but I want businesses across the country to know that there is a suite of supports available and in place for them to help them, their business and their individual employees to upskill and reskill. We now have micro-qualifications available at Irish universities and through further education and training. There are many ways that people in work can access education including part-time and online. Additional supports will be in place from September to provide for the fees for part-time learners if their household income is below €56,000. We intend to do more, including looking at how we can put the National Training Fund, into which employers pay, to work to bolster the skills infrastructure in this country.
10. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if Ireland is likely to experience a shortage of graduates in the future within a particular area to meet the demand of the corresponding workforce; his plans to address same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9019/24]
This question is similar to the previous one. Is the Minister satisfied that graduates are coming on stream in sufficient numbers to be able to fill the vacancies in the workforce at all levels and to be able to expand and grow their own interest and knowledge as well?
I thank the Deputy for his question, which highlights the importance of trying to align graduate output with our future workforce and skills needs. It is important, when we think of previous questions, that we do not just talk about the workforce and skills needs of the private sector, although that is really important, but we also talk about the workforce and skills needs of our public services. We discussed this with Deputy Burke earlier in the relation to the health service.
Aligning outputs with the skills needs of our country is a central theme of the OECD review of Ireland's national skills strategy, which I was pleased to launch last May. Against the backdrop of rapidly changing skill needs and megatrends such as digitisation, artificial intelligence, decarbonisation and demographic change, the OECD emphasises that it will be essential that Ireland's skills system helps to secure a balance between skills demand and supply; is flexible and responsive in planning for future skill needs; and builds adaptability and resilience in the face of societal and economic change. The OECD review identifies a number of positive opportunities to meet these objectives in areas such as improving information and guidance for individuals - not just school leavers but all citizens - on learning and career paths; strengthening learning and career pathways; and making education and training provision more responsive to changing skills needs. The last point is the most important one. The idea of education being something that is age-bound or that can only be done in one way has to change if we are to meet the skills need of our country now and into the future.
One of the main priorities for my Department for 2024, consistent with our recent statement of strategy, is to deliver on those priority recommendations identified by the OECD relating to achieving these opportunities. The reform of the National Skills Council, the details of which I plan to announce shortly, will put in place a key component of a new governance model recommended by the OECD to build a more joined-up skills ecosystem to drive forward implementation of the OECD review. It will enable the creation of a national partnerships encompassing all sectors of the economy to underpin more effective engagement with stakeholders. The work of the new council will be critical to overseeing how the future evolution of our tertiary education system generates the workforce and skills referenced in the Deputy's question.
Is the Minister satisfied that the general uptake in the areas of academic and technical skills is sufficient to fill the jobs and vacancies that are likely to appear in the future? Given the level of foreign direct investment in this country, what skills are likely to be required for the foreseeable future?
I am not satisfied, and I cannot be, because I have a number of reports that show really acute skills shortages in key areas of the economy. We know that we will need 50,000 more people to work in construction by 2030 and around 17,000 people to work in retrofitting. Both of those numbers are really important for our housing and climate agendas. We also know that those numbers are likely to increase as housing targets increase. I can point to much good progress in terms of increased apprenticeships, new short courses and the expansion of higher education courses in these areas, as well as greater levels of interest and uptake. There are encouraging signs but there is certainly no room for complacency by any manner or means. In a country that has full employment, we now have to look at everything including the issues of underemployment, how we help people to regain employment who have been out of the workforce, and the issue of work permits. This really does show that this #IrelandIsFull nonsense that we read about online is a farce.
Are we doing enough work in respect of the roles that are becoming redundant in real terms? Long ago, when a person went to college and got a degree, it would last them a lifetime. Now, however, in the context of business and what is happening in the world, things are changing very fast. Are we doing enough to examine the roles that are becoming redundant? Do we have adequate training in place for people to move them on to other areas where there is a shortage?
I thank Deputy Burke for what is a really topical question. We are certainly doing a lot in this space, although whether we can ever do enough is a big question. The Deputy is right that this is certainly an area that we need to prioritise. One of the things we are trying to do is to dispel the myth that education is just something people do in primary and secondary school, with a couple of years at university to get a degree and then off they go. Increasingly, education is going to require people - even those who believe they are in secure employment - to dip in and out to keep up with the pace of change that is happening in our world. That is why we have developed micro-qualifications and micro-credentials at further education and training centres and in higher education so that people who are working full-time can top up their skill set to keep ahead in their workplace. If we look at mechanics, for example, we have a lot of people who are studying to be mechanics right now. That is really good, although we could do with more. We also know that last year in Ireland there were more new electric vehicles sold than petrol or diesel vehicles. Therefore, mechanics are having to change their whole skill set. Going back and retrofitting the skills involved in the mechanic apprenticeship course is a huge body of work that we are currently undertaking.
To what extent is the Minister satisfied with the supply of students to third and fourth level from secondary schools in view of the accommodation difficulties that have arisen in some parts of the country? Our population is growing and demand in that area will continue to be high. In that context, is the Minister satisfied that enough is being done to meet the accommodation requirements of the students who will be the graduates of tomorrow?
It is for this reason that we have changed our approach to student accommodation. In Deputy Durkan's constituency, for example, the town of Maynooth is one of the first beneficiaries of the new Government approach to student accommodation. We are investing taxpayer's money, along with university funding, to make accommodation projects viable. The student accommodation project in Maynooth to which I refer will go to construction this year and will make a real and meaningful difference.
I am very satisfied that higher education participation rates are among the best in the world. They are certainly among the best in Europe, but they are not equal across all sectors of society. We should not fool ourselves in that regard. We have made progress in terms of participation rates in DEIS schools but not as much progress as we have made in other schools.
We cannot be complacent. We still see a cliff edge when it comes to progress from second level to third level for far too many people with a disability. That is why we developed whole new courses in Irish universities for people with intellectual disabilities, beginning next September. We are also trying to bring our education into the regions, moving beyond this idea that all roads must lead to a big city to access a university degree. The creation of the technological universities has very much been the driving force behind that policy.
12. Deputy Aindrias Moynihan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the up-to-date position on improving pathways between second level education and apprenticeships to ensure that apprenticeships are seen as a very attractive career pathway; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9025/24]
Apprenticeships are a real option for many people seeking careers in sectors such as international financial services, software development, construction and hospitality. Are people being made aware of the various options that are available? What measures are there to encourage people towards that channel of apprenticeships?
I thank Deputy Moynihan for the question. He is so right. Some of the biggest challenges we have involve increasing awareness and perhaps bringing about cultural and attitudinal change in regard to what we traditionally might have called the crafts, the trades or vocational education. I am committed to enhancing pathways for people after secondary school to try to move the conversation on, to show that there are different pathways to get a qualification and to emphasise that an apprenticeship is a real and substantive career pathway for learners. Working closely with the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, I published the action plan for apprenticeships, which aims to make apprenticeships more visible, more recognised and more appreciated by learners, parents, families and career guidance professionals. We have seen some positive signs on foot of a dedicated information campaign to promote apprenticeship as an attractive route to qualification and as a career pathway, including the highest number of newly registered apprentices on record last year.
The development of more vocational options and pathways, including apprenticeship taster courses at transition year, is being examined. We are working closely with the Minister, Deputy Foley, on the issue of senior cycle reform with the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. I believe that if you can expose - for want of a better word - somebody in transition year to an apprenticeship, it could be very helpful. A central goal is to try to improve the provision of information to school leavers so that they have access to the same level of information about apprenticeships as they have about higher education.
I meet many people who are studying to be an apprentice. When I ask them if they came in straight from school, many of them laugh at me and say they only found out about it a few years after they left school. That needs to change. That is why we changed the CAO website to give apprenticeships the same parity of visibility as higher education. That is why we have launched a new national apprenticeship office. That is why we are providing a freefone guidance and advice helpline for any student or parent who wants information. Reaching schools and career guidance counsellors who can influence young people is so important. The National Apprenticeship Office is continuing to work with the Institute of Irish Guidance Counsellors to promote and increase awareness of apprenticeships.
Although people sometimes say this is not the case, I detect a real appetite from guidance counsellors to do what is best for their students and to have more information in this area. My Department has developed a careers in construction action plan, which we launched last August. This includes a new social media campaign that targets school leavers where they may find their information. Other communication initiatives include a new documentary on apprenticeships that will be available to all school students this year.
I thank the Minister. I understand there are some 9,000 employers involved with apprenticeships throughout the country. If we are to increase the number of people in apprenticeships, it will be necessary to increase the number of employers who offer apprenticeships. Many smaller local businesses in hospitality and other sectors are under pressure. Is the Minister engaging with them and ensuring they are in a position to bring apprentices on board? There is a need to match up people who are looking for apprenticeships and support them to find the employers that are out there. While there is a very obvious CAO channel for people taking that route, there is only an occasional advertisement for an apprenticeship in a local newspaper. Is there some particular measure to match up people and ensure they are supported in matching up the employer and the apprentice?
That is a good question. While the answer is "Yes", those structures could be better. I recently met with the chairs of all our regional skills forums, almost all of whom are involved in businesses, to ask them to suggest what we can do at a regional level to reach out to businesses and make sure they have information around apprenticeships and the supports put in place by the Government to help employers, particularly small employers, to take on apprentices. As the Deputy knows, since January 2022, we have had an apprenticeship employer grant. We introduced this grant of €2,000 per apprentice per annum in recognition of the fact that even though there are benefits for a small business that wants to take on an apprentice, there can also be a cost in terms of time. Employers of apprentices who are not eligible for State payment of off-the-job training allowances are reimbursed at regular intervals in mid-year and at the end of the year. In 2023, more than 2,000 employers availed of the apprenticeship employer grant, with €5.351 million paid out in that year. We also now have a gender grant, which applies when an employer takes on somebody from a gender that is under-represented in a particular apprenticeship. We are trying to expand the pool of employers by going to the public sector. We have to remember that the public sector is one of the biggest employers of apprentices. It is based in every county, town and village. We are setting targets for the first time for public service apprenticeships.
One of the biggest competitors for apprenticeships, if we can call it a competitor, is college. Going to college seems to be pushed through the focus in schools on exams and points and through the publication of league tables of schools. From my involvement as a parent and from my experience with boards of management and education and training boards, I know that league tables are not a measure of personal development or educational attainment. They are really only a tiny snapshot, but at the same time they influence the media, parents and teachers. These are significant people in encouraging a trainee along one channel or another. Is the Minister engaging with the different stakeholders to ensure they are aware of apprenticeship as an option, and to arm them or support them in encouraging the use of that option by their sons or daughters or the students in their school?
Yes. My Department, and most specifically our National Apprenticeship Office, are working tirelessly to try to grow a coalition of people to support and promote apprenticeships through engaging with parent councils, boards of management, trade unions, teacher union representative bodies and guidance counsellors. There is a legitimate issue here that we need to address. I have tasked the National Apprenticeship Office with coming up with ideas around this because I am critical of the league tables. However, I also think it is a little bit on us because we do not provide alternative data. I am not speaking for The Irish Times, but they will say "well that is the only data we have". We need to do better at capturing the numbers of people from secondary schools who have gone on to apprenticeships. In that way we can publicly reward and recognise the schools that promote what might traditionally have been known as vocational training, crafts and training, thereby helping us to meet our housing and climate targets, among others. We have a piece of work to do to capture that data and present a much more holistic picture of what success in school looks like.
13. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if there are plans to include courses for adults with intellectual disabilities such as the level 3 certificate in skills for independent living at Dundalk IT under the SUSI grant scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8724/24]
Are there any plans to include in the SUSI grant scheme courses for adults with intellectual disabilities, such as the level 3 certificate in skills for independent living which I was lucky enough to visit in Dundalk Institute of Technology recently? Obviously that is one of the courses included in the new funding streams for educational disability, which is very welcome. It is a very specific issue. A number of the students brought it up with me. It is all about fairness.
I thank Deputy Ó Murchú for his genuine support for the roll-out of programmes for students with intellectual disabilities, for his work on the Joint Committee on Autism, for attending our launch of the expansion of courses for students with intellectual disability, and for his tireless advocacy for personal assistants, which I also acknowledge. I want to recognise that. As the Deputy is aware, earlier this month I was delighted to be in a position to announce that ten higher education institutions have been awarded funding to provide a range of courses over the next three years for students with an intellectual disability. It is the happiest and most important announcement in politics that I have ever been involved in. It has the ability to transform lives.
These courses will commence in September and we have provision for around 150 places in the first year. This includes the certificate in general learning on skills for independent learning in Dundalk Institute of Technology, as referenced by Deputy Ó Murchú.
Significant consultation took place in respect of this initiative and I met many students during the consultation period. These consultations highlighted very clearly the diverse range of students’ needs and this was communicated to institutions to allow them to tailor their proposals accordingly. I am pleased the institutions have very carefully considered all matters, such as student supports, in their course proposals. In recognition of this, we have ensured that part of the funding allocated to the institutions can be used to provide financial, pastoral and educational supports to students, including for supporting travel costs and personal assistants, which is an important message I want to set out today.
On the specific question of access to the student grant scheme administered by SUSI, as the Deputy will be aware, this scheme operates within the parameters set out in primary legislation. As the legislation currently stands, the courses proposed by the various institutions are not likely to meet the eligibility criteria for the student grant administered by SUSI. Hence, we have allowed for student support, including financial, educational and pastoral, to be included in the funding we have allocated to the institutions. This is very much the first phase of the initiative. Over the coming three years, we are going to learn and reflect on wider policy and funding. I hope we are going to reform the SUSI Act because I believe the primary legislation needs reform. In the meantime, I am satisfied we have provided funding in our allocation to those institutions and top-sliced that, if you like, to enable them to meet some of those support needs for students.
I welcome the fact the Minister is talking about dealing with some of the inadequacies that exist in the SUSI Act. I wonder how the parameters of some of the supports will work for these students, which is something we have to look at. We are talking about fairness across the board and ensuring as many people as possible can engage with regard to disabilities. When I spoke to those involved in running the course and those attending the course, they believe that what they see as the new funding being provided to them will allow them to properly engage with industry and business, and we can look not only at internships but also employment because this is ensuring there is a proper route map. The Minister has said many times that, unfortunately, when people with disabilities hit 18, this often just falls off a cliff. It is a case of looking at all of those things and finding the parameters with regard to how those moneys can be administered. In the long term, we need to look at these courses in the context of SUSI, but I welcome that the Minister is looking at the Act.
I also think we need to look at the SUSI Act. To be honest, whoever is the Minister and whoever is in government, it is too prescriptive to have this in primary legislation. If we look at the SUSI Act as compared with some of the social welfare Acts, the Minister for Social Protection, whoever he or she is, has a flexibility through regulation whereas, frankly, the primary legislation is too prescriptive for us to respond in real time to the issues that can arise. That is my view and it is something I would like to see us address together.
We are learning as we go and we have to be very honest in this regard. We are trying to do something very new. We are dealing with students who have often been locked out of our third-level education system. Some will come with Department of Social Protection supports, some will come with health service, day service and HSE supports, and some will come with neither or both of them. All of them, though, will enter courses that have been specifically designed to meet the needs of students with intellectual disabilities. All of the programmes that have applied for funding have been allowed, as part of their funding request, to seek some of that funding for the financial, pastoral and educational supports for students, including supports for travel costs, personal assistants and so on.
On the employment piece, the Deputy is correct. We intend to do a piece of work on that to make sure that when people with a disability come out of third-level education, they are also linked in with employment opportunities.
There is a piece that needs to be done even beyond the Minister's Department in the sense of engaging with those in the Department of Social Protection with regard to working towards having people with disabilities engage with business and industry, which is a necessity.
The Minister would be shocked if I did not bring up the case we have been dealing with for a long time and that he mentioned earlier, that of personal assistants in further education. Obviously, we are looking for a follow-up meeting with the Minister and it is to be hoped that between his Department and what is happening at present with Fórsa, we can bring about a better circumstance whereby they have a contract that allows them to live and deliver for those with additional supports in further education. I am talking specifically about colleges such as Ó Fiaich College, DIFE in Drogheda and the colleges in Cavan, Dunboyne and beyond.
I want to specifically address this issue because I believe that when it comes to personal assistants, we need to have a consistency of approach throughout the country. I also believe we need to have real engagement with the Fórsa trade union, which has lodged a claim, which is the right and proper way to address this. The Deputy and I have talked about the issue of what we can do in the meantime, and I want to truthfully acknowledge that the Deputy has championed this. I have approved SOLAS to set an hourly rate of €21 under the fund for students with disabilities for personal assistants employed directly by ETBs with effect from 1 March. That is up from an hourly rate of €14.72 now. I will be sharing the details of that with the Deputy shortly, but in recognition of his work, I wanted to update him on that this evening. This is a recognition that, first, we want to increase funding to the fund for students with disabilities and, second, we want to provide SOLAS with the ability to pay a higher hourly rate to those personal assistants directly employed by the ETBs. However, there is a bigger piece of policy work we need to do around personal assistants.
Question No. 15, in the name of Deputy Bruton, will be taken by Deputy Durkan.
15. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he has considered the role that further and higher education could play in the future in supporting the contribution of people after they retire from full-time work both from their past experience and empowering them for a third age; and if he will consider evolving a new strategy in this sphere. [9081/24]
This is an interesting question in that it proposes to utilise the skills and experience of those previously in the workforce who have learnt through the long road how to deal with the issues that arise. It asks the Minister if he proposes to utilise their skills and abilities in the way that is suggested to empower them possibly for a third age, but for a second age anyway.
This is an excellent question. I am sure it is not because Deputy Bruton does not intend to seek re-election to the Dáil and has announced his retirement that he is looking to know if he can play a role. There would be nobody better to play a role in our education system because we have certainly learned from him here.
This question gets to the very heart of the ageism that exists in society, of which there are so many examples, as we all know. I think we all agree on this. There are so many arbitrary ages that have just grown up over time. There is a cultural issue in education, where we see it as something that is age bound. There are so many people at a later stage of life, whatever that means, who may wish to access education and may benefit from education economically but also just from a social and well-being point of view. I have met some of these people. There are also many people who are retired with immense skill sets who would be happy to give back and contribute to passing on those skill sets through the education sector, formally or informally, to the next generation.
I believe my Department can make a valuable contribution to the lives of older age groups by ensuring they are facilitated to participate in all aspects of education. I view this question as thought-provoking and refreshing. It is very important in the context of an ageing population that we can facilitate equal and fair opportunities for older people to participate in all aspects of society.
The OECD skills strategy review, which we discussed earlier today, highlights the need for an increased focus on short and flexible skilling options for individuals entering or transitioning into the workforce. The review also identifies older people who can at times become vulnerable in terms of their lifelong learning participation because of those cultural or stereotypical barriers we need to break down. It provides a comprehensive set of actions relevant to responding to the upskilling and reskilling needs of that group.
There are a number of strategies under way across Government to help support older people in our society, such as addressing fundamental digital skills, with a target of 80% of Irish adults developing basic digital literacy skills. However, I do not think it is actually about supporting older people in this context of education. It is about empowering them and about looking at ways in which our education system can be opened to them, both in terms of sharing their knowledge and gaining knowledge. On the basis of this question and the basis we are in the European year of skills, I now intend to task my Department to work with its agencies to see how we can respond to this suggestion comprehensively.
I believe it was John Kenneth Galbraith, the famous American economist, who first thought up this idea. He proved the point that utilising the skills and experience that were already available could reap benefit to the economy tenfold. He did not expect those who were retired to carry out a long day’s work, as they had previously experienced, and he suggested that they should take longer holidays and so on, but keep themselves refreshed and renewed in what they knew best, so they were in a position to hand on to the new generation and the new public and private system, wherever that might be.
Does the Minister believe he can take inspiration from that? We will talk about him later as well.
I am always inspired by Deputy Durkan's contributions and I am indeed inspired by that suggestion. There is a real issue here. Some 62% of adults aged over 65 in Ireland have completed primary or secondary education. There is absolutely no reason in the wide earthly world why third level education cannot be open to them at a later stage of life, an opportunity that may not have been afforded to them in the way it is afforded to the current younger generation. The SOLAS skills to advance programme offers free upskilling support to people in key areas such as digital skills, remote working, healthcare and smart driving. My Department is absolutely committed to making sure that education is for everyone no matter your age, your gender, the part of the country you live in or what you did earlier in life. As a former and recovering Minister for Health, I also know that the link between health and education is real. The link between access to education, skills, knowledge and learning and a person's well-being and mental and physical health is very potent. I will reflect on the suggestions of Deputies Durkan and Bruton and revert to them.
I thank the Minister for his refreshing and informed attitude to the question and the concept. When advanced in years, being almost 100 at the time - he was almost 100 when he died - a student asked Professor Galbraith when he stopped learning. His immediate answer was that he was still learning.
Every day is a school day in here. I can certainly agree with that. Any day you do not learn something new is both a rare and a disappointing day. Intergenerational learning is also really important. I have seen good examples of this in community education and further education. Young people pass on their skills, which are often skills in technology, to older people while older people pass on the life skills and expertise they have garnered. It creates the culture of respect that is so important in our communities and in our country. However, we do need to do more on this. I will be very clear on that. The pace of digital change in particular means that older people can sometimes feel they are locked out of participation in society. That cannot be the way. We have free courses, a number of initiatives, a literacy strategy, a digital literacy strategy and a skills to advance strategy. In the first instance, we need to get the message out that education is for everyone at every age. We then need to significantly signpost and listen to older people as to how we can make education more accessible.
18. Deputy Mairéad Farrell asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science to provide an update on the dentistry school for Cork, for which the ground was broken, but has yet to be delivered. [9109/24]
Will the Minister provide an update on the dentistry school for Cork on which ground was broken but which has not yet been delivered?
I thank Deputy Farrell very much for the question. As she will know, universities, including University College Cork, are autonomous bodies established under statute. All universities are required to comply with the relevant Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform guidelines, including, as appropriate, the public spending code and relevant circulars. As autonomous bodies, the expenditure of a university’s income, both public and private, is a matter for the individual institution and this includes responsibility for ensuring appropriate policies and procedures are in place to oversee the use of its resources. As the accountable person for the institution, the president of a university is accountable to the Oireachtas in respect of the expenditure of Exchequer funding and universities' financial statements are audited independently by the Comptroller and Auditor General.
As an autonomous body, it is a matter for UCC to prioritise its capital projects accordingly. There have been two rounds of capital funding made available to higher level institutions under the higher education strategic investment fund, HESIF, in recent years. Each institute was asked to submit one project per funding round under HESIF. UCC chose to lodge applications for its business school and for an upgrade to the Kane Building. I am pleased to say both applications have been successful and have received €50 million in direct Exchequer funding from this Department. That is where we are on that.
In addition and separately, the Higher Education Authority recently undertook an expressions of interest, EOI, process to identify options for developing substantial medium-term additional capacity in a range of priority healthcare disciplines, including dentistry. In June 2023 the Minister for Health and I announced details of the potential options identified under this process. I continue to engage closely on this matter with Government colleagues to advance the process, with investment to be considered in the context of the ongoing capital review of our national development plan allocations.
Am I correct in thinking that the Minister was there for the breaking of the ground?
Okay, I will have to look back in that regard. Back in 2019, UCC was granted planning permission for a five-storey building in Curraheen but this did not progress. A fortnight ago, the Irish Examiner reported UCC has now "dropped plans for Cork University Dental School and Hospital to move to a bigger site, despite its dean warning that the current building is “untenable” without significant investment". As the dean is reported as pointing out, the current building is "a frail, old building. It’s got a leaking roof and other issues as would be expected of a building that age".
I fully understand what the Minister is saying as regards universities being autonomous bodies. Is he concerned about the number of dentists we are producing more generally? Will he comment on the need for infrastructure to fill that gap?
I genuinely do not think I was there. I am open to correction if I was but I do not have a recollection of it. There are two separate issues here. Like all universities, UCC had to prioritise the projects it wanted to submit under the HESIF. It put forward two: the business school and the Kane Building. It got the allocation for both and those projects moved forward.
The broader question the Deputy asked is very valid. Yes, I do have a concern that we are not training enough dentists in Ireland. It is not just that I have a concern; it is also a concern of the Department of Health and the HSE. As the Deputy will know, we undertook an expression of interest process with the Higher Education Authority. We asked universities to let us know what they could do in a range of priority healthcare disciplines and, coincidentally, in veterinary medicine. Dentistry was one of the areas in which options came back. I am happy to share details with the Deputy in a note but a number of options for dentistry came back as part of that expression of interest process. I believe there were three options: one for a new programme and two for the expansion of existing programmes. Along with the general expansion of both healthcare and veterinary medicine, the Ministers for Health, agriculture and I are pursuing these positions along with the Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform as part of the review of capital ceilings currently under way.
There are a few things here. Another piece in the Irish Examiner reads:
The IDA said this school is “instrumental” in providing care to thousands of patients and training students.
“We urge the Minister for Higher Education Simon Harris, the Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly, and all relevant Government departments to acknowledge that the UCC Dental School can no longer reside in an aging building with outdated equipment and allocate adequate funding to allow for the original plans to proceed,”...
It was also said that "even students who earn the maximum of 625 points may not get a place." There is obviously a serious issue if that is the case in respect of those getting 625 points. Will the Minister respond to that? Has a graduate entry course ever been considered? What are the Minister's views on that?
Will the Minister confirm that planning permission had been granted for the new school in Curraheen? Will he tell us what the estimated cost of building that new school was? Does he agree that there is a great need for a new school in Curraheen, Cork, and that the old building is completely out of date, outmoded and not fit for purpose?
I thank both Deputies. On the expression of interest process, Deputy Farrell's question was interesting because I asked about graduate entry programmes and was told that none were proposed as part of the expression of interest round. There were three options identified under the Higher Education Authority expression of interest process. One was for a new programme and two were for the expansion of existing programmes. One of those three options came from UCC. We will now see how best to take these forward. However, I do share the view that we need more dentistry places and that more dentistry places would reduce the points required, which would be fairer for students and good for the delivery of healthcare.
On Deputy Stanton's specific questions, I do not have the figures on estimated costs in front of me but I will seek that information. I absolutely believe that we need to invest more in UCC and in its capital projects. So far, I have been delighted to be in a position to approve both the business school and the Kane Building. I have also been very grateful to UCC for putting forward a number of options for how it can play a bigger role in respect of healthcare and dentistry. These options will be considered by myself, the Minister for Health and the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, as part of the capital review process that is under way.
21. Deputy Bernard J. Durkan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the degree to which higher education costs have increased or fluctuated over the past number of years; the extent to which the proportion of the national budget under that heading has varied in the past six years; if continued access to third level education for all students seeking to avail of it will be ensured; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9018/24]
This question seeks to ascertain and acknowledge the expenditure on this sector of education over the past number of years, how it is progressing and how the expenditure is succeeding in addressing the issues that need to be addressed in that particular area. Will the Minister make a statement on the matter?
I am committed to providing significant additional resources towards the delivery of tertiary education, supporting students, and addressing the cost of education for families. My Department's gross allocation for this year is €4.26 billion, which represents an increase of more than €990 million - almost €1 billion - since the establishment of my Department. Our current expenditure allocation now represents 4.3% of Ireland's national budget.
The Funding the Future framework was published in May 2022 and this outlines the Government's vision for how higher education would be funded and how we will support students, employers and the wider society. At the core of this approach is to maintain a dual focus on increasing recurrent funding for our third-level institutions to enable enhanced quality provision, reducing our staff student ratios by providing more staff in our universities, but also crucially - and I did insist on this - addressing as part of any funding model the cost of education for students and their families and reducing cost as a barrier to participation and success. Over the past two budgets I have increased investment in core funding of higher education by more than €105 million. I will continue to prioritise increased core funding as part of the budgetary process in tandem with the reform and enhancement programme envisaged by the Funding the Future policy.
I have also allocated significant resources to reduce the cost of higher education for families. Over the past two years the student contribution fee payable by students who are eligible for the free fees initiative has been cut by €1,000. This means that some 96,000 students have benefited with €1,000 back in their pocket as a result of that. For students whose families' incomes are between €62,000 and €100,000 there is now a new grant on top of that of €500 towards the undergraduate student contribution fee. This, effectively, cuts their fees in half. I have made increases to student maintenance grants among a number of improvements to the SUSI scheme, increasing all student grants from January, and restoring for the first time since the financial crash the postgraduate maintenance grant as well. I have also ensured that additional funding has been provided to the student assistance fund and I have worked with Government colleagues to make sure we have expanded the renter's tax credit so students and their parents can benefit from that.
I assure Deputy Durkan that providing accessible and affordable high-quality tertiary education to all learners regardless of their background is a key priority for the Government.
I thank the Minister for his continued support of this particular concept and the ability it has to deliver to a wider range of students with wider skills, wider potential and needing wider opportunities.
Thus far, is the programme having the results the Minister had expected or anticipated? To what extent can that be furthered?
It is having a real benefit because I am very conscious that 96,000 people were getting €1,000 back on fees they had paid. This was just before Christmas. Getting €1,000 knocked off a bill has a real and meaningful impact. Increasing student grants well above the inflation rate is a real term increase. Providing €750 in a renter's tax credit back to a student - or to the parent of a student who pays the rent - makes a real difference. That will be back-dated for a number of years if the student has been in accommodation for a number of years.
Since the establishment of my Department we have made a number of important changes to reduce the cost of education. The Deputy and I have supported these in the Dáil: we have increased maintenance grants; we have increased certain income thresholds; we provided a new grant towards the student contribution fee for eligible incomes between €62,000 and €100,000; we changed the adjacency rules; we have reduced the length of time that a mature student must have passed before they can avail of supports; we have improved postgraduate supports; we have reduced fees; and in recent years Covid and cost-of-living measures have also improved supports for students.
The thing I am most excited about are the changes we are bringing in from September for part-time education and making sure people on lower incomes will benefit from no fees if they qualify for an eligible part-time course.
I welcome the progressive nature by which the Minister is proceeding. Does the Minister remain satisfied that the progress to date in investment and in outcomes is likely to continue into the future and that the resources will be available?
I am very confident that the resources will be available. When I look at other jurisdictions and the very difficult budgetary decisions they are having to make compared to the decisions that we are able to make as a result of full employment, we find ourselves in a more favourable position in bringing forward policy measures. We were able to increase grants and cut fees while increasing core funding. In the past fees were reduced but there was not the increase in core funding by the same amount. That actually caused a hole in funding. Last year, for example, we saw the first improvement in many years in the ratio between staff and students in Irish universities. We will see that again this year. We are seeing additional funding being provided to universities to take on extra staff. This means trying to end and reduce precarious employment, with better terms and conditions for staff working in Irish universities as well.
Being honest, we need to reform the student grant scheme. When this House passed that legislation in 2011 it was good but a lot has happened since then. I really do look forward to working with Deputies to see how we can overhaul the student support structures we have in place in the State.
24. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the way his Department is supporting young people from the Traveller community to become apprentices; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8809/24]
We are aware that people from the Traveller community, and especially young people, experience very high rates of unemployment. I want to give the Minister an opportunity to tell us how the Department is supporting young people from the Traveller community to become apprentices and so to become gainfully employed.
I thank the Deputy for his question. The action plan for apprenticeships, which runs from 2021 to 2025 promotes access, diversity and inclusion in apprenticeships by offering targeted supports to encourage participation from under-represented groups such as the Traveller community.
One of the plan's main objectives is apprenticeship for all to ensure that the apprenticeship population better represents the national population. To advance this the national apprenticeship alliance established an access and inclusion subcommittee in early 2023. In 2023 a tailored programme for access to apprenticeships within the Traveller community was developed and successfully introduced. The initiative was led by the Irish Traveller Movement with advice and support from the above mentioned subcommittee. The Traveller apprenticeship incentive programme aims to increase uptake of and retention of apprenticeships within the Traveller community. It has run an advocacy and awareness campaign to raise the profile of apprenticeships. The programme offers a bursary of €3,000 to successful applicants, and separately a €2,000 grant to eligible employers. To date interest has been very positive and encouraging. The programme went live in April of 2023 and by the end of 2023 a total of 41 Travellers had been funded to the programme.
We are really pleased to confirm that a figure of €450,000 has been secured to continue the programme into 2024. Under the access to apprenticeship incentive, 3,000 bursaries are also available to support those who were experiencing severe socioeconomic disadvantage, with €500,000 being allocated for this in the 2024 bursary and initiative. This is delivered through the Technical University of the Shannon, TUS, and is expanding to all education and training boards, as well as to TUS Limerick campus, TUS Athlone campus, Munster Technological University, and Atlantic Technological University in Galway.
Building on these actions we strongly share the objective reflected in the Deputy's question of continuing to provide greater opportunities for young people in the Traveller community to participate in apprenticeships.
I thank the Minister of State for the very positive and comprehensive response. Will the Minister of State give us any indication as to what type of apprenticeships are most popular among the people he mentioned? What are the Minister of State's targets for the years ahead 2025 and 2026 for the number of young Traveller people who would graduate and become apprentices?
The Traveller apprenticeship incentive programme is funded under the Dormant Accounts Fund scheme. The programme is aimed at increasing the uptake of and retention of apprenticeships. The programme is structured across three streams: a €3,000 bursary for each 20 Travellers who are employed as new apprentices; a €2,000 incentive payment to each of their employers; and each of the streams 1,2 and 3 have similar funding. The employers who hire a Traveller apprentice are also eligible for the €2,000 employer grant. Details of the programme were presented by the Department of Equality at its conference recently with the Traveller and Roma communities. This was a conference on employment and it was entitled "Overcoming Barriers and Promoting Opportunities".
Calls for expressions of interest for Travellers seeking apprenticeships went live in early April. There were 130 expressions of interest.
Will the Minister of State give me any indication as to the gender breakdown of these apprenticeships? How many girls and how many boys are involved in this? Will the Minister of State also give an indication of the types of apprenticeships that are most popular such as carpentry or mechanics? Is the Minister of State aware of the Castlerea Prison Jonathan Irwin project where young Travellers in the prison can train in skills, and horse husbandry in particular?
Does the Minister of State have any connection with the Open Doors initiative which also works on this?
We will get the Deputy all of what he has looked for after this session. There were 113 applicants, 86 of whom were male and 17 were female. A total of 70 of the applicants had completed their junior certificate and 40% of the applicants had their leaving certificate completed. In terms of the apprenticeship types, approximately 21 were in construction, 16 in electrical, two in engineering and two in motoring. We will get the Deputy the entire range of data he requested.
25. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the way his Department is incentivising people from disadvantaged backgrounds to become apprentices; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8808/24]
This question is similar to the previous one. It has to do with the way in which the Department is supporting people from disadvantaged backgrounds, possibly including people with disabilities, to become apprentices.
I thank Deputy Stanton. One of the five overarching objectives of the Action Plan for Apprenticeships, apprenticeships for all, is to ensure the profile of the apprenticeship population better reflects our general population. The plan promotes access, diversity and inclusion in apprenticeships and offers targeted supports to participants from underrepresented and socioeconomically disadvantaged groups. The National Apprenticeship Alliance established an access and inclusion subcommittee in early 2023 and has set specific targets for interventions in this regard.
The access to apprenticeship incentive supports the transition of young people from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds into the apprenticeship scheme. For eligible participants, and we discussed this earlier, support grants for the apprentice and the employer are available. Various technological universities, including TU Shannon in Athlone and ATU in Galway, are participating in all of this.
We have also been working to help young people in the care of the State to access third-level education and €100,000 has been secured in 2024 for bursaries of €3,000 each to support care leavers who wish to pursue apprenticeships. These targeted supports are intended to make a real difference by making it more attractive and viable for all ages and backgrounds to choose the apprenticeship route to careers and qualifications. We are committed to assessing on the basis of their impact how more of the crucial objective can be achieved.
What level of staffing, particularly in the Department, has the Minister of State put in place to encourage and support people from disadvantaged backgrounds to become apprentices?
I do not have the figure to hand right now but we will get back to the Deputy.
