Vol. 1053 No. 1
6. Deputy Pauline Tully asked the Minister for Social Protection if she is considering the consolidation of all disability payments together into one single payment system; if so, her plans to consult and co-design this scheme in conjunction with the disability community; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18411/24]
Is the Minister considering the consolidation of all disability payments into one single payment system and, if so, has she plans to consult and co-design the scheme in conjunction with the disability community, and will she make a statement on the matter?
I thank Deputy Tully for raising this matter. As she will be aware, one of the main ideas in the Green Paper I published for consultation last year was to consolidate disability allowance, blind pension and invalidity pension into one single payment. I sought people's views on an approach to providing additional support to those most in need by increasing payments for those people with most profound challenges and, in so doing, to also address some inconsistencies between the payments. In line with our obligation under Article 4(3) of the UNCRPD, the Green Paper consultation process involved an extensive series of stakeholder events, public consultation events and bilateral meetings with disabled person's organisations and disability groups. Based on the feedback I received through this process, it is clear there are significant concerns about the proposals as set out and, in particular, as to whether it was appropriate to reform the system of disability payments separate to a wider consideration of other challenges faced by people with disabilities, including transport, education and access to employment.
Although it was also acknowledged that disability takes many forms and that the costs of disability vary along a spectrum, people were also concerned as to how, in practice, a distinction would be drawn between people with profound challenges attracting the higher rate of payment and other people with disabilities. I have listened to these concerns and will not therefore proceed to further develop the proposals to a White Paper or a Government decision stage. As a Government, we need to have a fresh look at how we can support people with disabilities. It is for this reason the Taoiseach has announced the establishment of a special Cabinet committee on disability with a major emphasis on improving supports and services for people with disabilities in all aspects of their lives. Any reform of disability payments will now be considered as part of this broader review of disability matters on a whole-of-government basis and will take account of the feedback received during the Green Paper process. Alongside this new Cabinet committee, a new national disability strategy is being developed. This is being co-ordinated by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth with a whole-of-government approach.
As the Minister has said, one of the proposals was to merge the disability allowance, blind pension and invalidity pension into a single payment called the personal support payment. While the Green Paper has been scrapped, and for good reason, there were proposals within which merited further analysis and I believe this is one. In our consultation with disabled individuals and DPOs, there was a cautious welcome from many for this proposal. The current system does not meet the needs of disabled people. It is cumbersome and stressful. A single payment that is easy for disabled people to access would be welcome. It is currently based completely on the medicalised model of disability, and people born with lifelong disabilities still have to be reassessed every couple of years, which is ridiculous. It is not as if their disabilities are going to magically disappear. It is stressful and it is a waste of people's time. Any proposals for a new singular system would need to be based on a social and rights-based model of disability as incorporated in the UNCRPD and should only be arrived at after real and meaningful consultation has taken place with the disability community. Co-production and co-design of a singular scheme are what would make this successful.
I agree with the Deputy's initial question. There are too many different payments trying to do the same thing, whether it is disability allowance, invalidity pension, blind pension or partial capacity benefit. Sometimes people are on long-term illness benefit. For children there is domiciliary care allowance. The Green Paper, in fairness, was trying to put a more unified and coherent approach to this so that everybody would receive what would be known as a personal support payment. That is what the proposal in the Green Paper was attempting to do. I accept we did not get it right. It is clear people were not happy with it. I have listened to those genuine concerns and we now have to go back to the drawing board and take a fresh look at this to come up with a system that supports people with disabilities, which is what we all want to do at the end of the day.
The Green Paper also proposed higher rates for disability payments, and that, too, needs to be progressed. The cost of disability payment needs to be looked at. The priority is to ensure no person is living in poverty. I also refer to a number of constituents who have come to my office because their payment has been cut or curtailed without any warning. There may be perfectly good reasons for this, like a review or other incidents that have to be looked into, but the biggest problem is these people have been left without money. They cannot contact the community welfare officer. There was a time when you could go to see the community welfare officer on a set day in a local area and discuss your circumstances. The community welfare officer would be able to make a judgment on whether they needed to give you some money to keep you going. It was a brilliant system, but it is not happening now. People inquiring to see the community welfare officer are being told they have to make an application for supplementary welfare. That can take weeks. One man was in hospital for three weeks. His payment was cut while he was in there. He could not apply for supplementary welfare. He had to wait until he came out. He had bills mounting in the meantime. It is frustrating and concerning.
I welcome that we now realise from our meetings that the Green Paper was not going to work. However, the Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities in 1996 recommended there should be a gradual payment to meet additional everyday costs associated with disabilities. This has come up with me recently too. There is no overall payment to cover the cost of disability in Ireland. Additional costs like equipment and disability aids, transport and communication, medical care, personal care, and other costs incurred by a person with a severe disability are estimated at approximately €5,000 more per year than costs faced by an unemployed person without a disability. There are people with a disability and they are on the poverty line. I know the Minister realises that, but we need to make sure people with disabilities get help with these payments. We need to have a payment that is working for them, and at the moment it is not.
That is what I am trying to do and what the Green Paper was trying to do, but people were not happy with it. I listened to their concerns. There is a lot of information and we did a lot of consultation during the Green Paper when it was published. We will take lessons from those too. There is now a Cabinet committee and I know there will be a huge focus on this. We have to come together and work together. The organisations representing the disability groups also have to come up with their ideas and solutions and we have to try to find a pathway forward. I know, and we all know, there are people with severe disabilities and we know they are never going to work. We need to make sure they are not being asked to fill out forms and such things. There are also those with a much milder disability. It will be up to them, but it might help them if they were able to go into the workplace. I was in the National Learning Network training centre recently in County Monaghan, and they are doing wonderful work to give people confidence. They told me that during Covid there were a lot of people who lost their confidence, and they have been building it back up to try to get them into the workplace. Some of it has been successful. We need to look at individual cases.
Question No. 7 taken with Written Answers.
8. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of persons who, having been refused the disability allowance, were successful in their appeals of her Department’s decision to refuse in each of the past ten years and to date in 2024. [17667/24]
People with disabilities are among the people most discriminated against in Ireland. People with disabilities battle daily just to achieve basic services from the State. A few weeks ago this Government played the part of champions of carers and people with disabilities, but that zeal has disappeared for some reason after the referendum results. People with disabilities regularly tell me they apply for disability allowance and are initially unsuccessful with their application, but when they appeal, they get their application. This seems to be happening a lot and I think it is important we focus on why that is happening.
The social welfare appeals office is an office of the Department of Social Protection which is responsible for determining appeals against decisions relating to social welfare payments.
Appeals officers are independent in their decision-making functions. Between 2014 and the end of March 2024, 241,019 disability allowance claims were received by the Department. Those figures are for ten years. Between 2014 and the end of March 2024, 24% of claim decisions or 58,485 disability allowance appeals were received in the Social Welfare Appeals Office. Of these 39,658, or 69% were subsequently allowed or partially allowed, either by a deciding officer on review or by an appeals officer. In many cases this was because additional information was provided at the time of appeal that was not available to the original deciding officer.
The Department is aware that many people submit an application immediately on diagnosis, but before full medical reports are received. Submitting an early application establishes a claim date to which payment is ultimately backdated. In 2023, approximately 1% of the decisions made by the Department of Social Protection were appealed to the Social Welfare Appeals Office. The total number of disability allowance appeals received annually in the years from 2014 to 2023 ranged from 4,912 to 6,661. That is an average of 5,702 per year over those ten years. From 1 January 2024 to 30 March 2024, 1,467 disability allowance appeals were received. A table giving a breakdown of disability allowance appeals received, appeals allowed or partially allowed and appeals which had revised decisions made by the Department from 2014 to 2023 and from 1 January 2024 to March 2024 is available and we will provide it to the Deputy.
These are shocking figures. The Minister basically said that since she was elected, approximately 40,000 people with disabilities have applied for disability allowance, been refused, had to appeal the decision and were then successful. She is saying that, for the big chunk of those cases, the initial refusal of the application by the Department was incorrect. These are people with disabilities who are struggling to survive and to get what they are entitled to from the State and in 61% of the refusals the Minister's Department made a mistake.
The Department might say that people with disabilities may not be able to fill the forms properly. Surely it is the Minister's job to make sure there is a system of application that is accessible to people with disabilities. She cannot just blame the people who are making the applications for not having all the facts right or not having done the job properly. This is a serious matter. The Department has been wrong in 61% of applications by people with disabilities.
The figures were for a ten-year period during which 69% of appeals were subsequently allowed or partially allowed. We are not trying to block people from getting their payments. That is not what I am trying to do. That is not true. Look at the statistics. The number of people receiving disability allowance has increased massively in recent years. Slightly more than 100,000 people were getting disability allowance in 2014. Today more than 158,000 people receive it. That is a 50% increase in the number of people receiving the payment. The Deputy is trying to make it sound like we are trying to stop people. We are certainly not doing so. I have spoken to my officials at length about this because I see it in my constituency office as well. The reason a lot of applications are successful on appeal is that additional medical information is provided that was not provided in the first place.
The Department is blocking people from getting assistance. That is what a refusal is. It is a block. Up to 40,000 people, which is equivalent to the populations of Athlone and Portlaoise combined, have been refused by the Department and then been granted the allowance subsequently. The Minister might blame the people for not having all the information first or not being able to fill the document, but it is the Minister's responsibility to make a document that is accessible to people with disabilities. Some 69% of the refusals were overturned. Imagine the number of people who were refused but did not apply for a review of the decision. There could be thousands of people who honestly, fairly and justly applied, were refused by the Department, did not make an appeal and could have got it. That is a serious question.
It is interesting that before the referendums the Ministers, Deputies Humphreys and O'Gorman, dangled the possibility of future investment for people who are carers and people with disabilities. A referendum or a constitutional amendment was not needed to be able to provide more resources and better systems for carers and people with disabilities. All that is needed is political will. Many people will find it cynical that after the referendums, the interest of the Government in this has completely evaporated.
Before the Minister responds, Deputy Bruton wants to contribute.
I have a good deal of experience of dealing with cases. What often happens is that the medical certification does not deal with the fact that a person must be unable to work for 12 months or more. Doctors often think that by listing illnesses, they have fulfilled their requirement. It would be useful if a message could clarify to medical professionals the exact form of certification required and what must be certified. In my experience, that is what repeatedly sees people fail at the first attempt and succeed at the second.
Deputy Bruton is absolutely right. I also see that in my office. Much of the medical information is not put down. It is on the provision of further medical information that the payment is granted. We have done a lot for carers. A pension scheme has been introduced for long-term carers. The carer's support grant has been increased to its highest ever level. The weekly carer's payment has been increased by €29 in the past three years. Carers were prioritised in all the cost-of-living lump sum payments. I have made significant improvements to the means test, which will mean-----
Yesterday.
-----that from June a couple will be able to have weekly earnings of €900 and €50,000 in savings and still qualify for the full carer's allowance payment.
Scrap the means test.
An interdepartmental group has been set up to examine what further work we can do on the means test. I assure Deputies that I am committed to working with our carers to continue to give them support in carrying out the valuable work they do.
14. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of persons who availed of the activation and family support programme in 2022 to fund the cost of training supports and education courses for people on social welfare in County Cork; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18137/24]
What is the number of persons who have availed of the activation and family support programme in 2022 to fund the cost of training supports and education courses for people on social welfare in Cork?
The Department's activation and family support programme provides funding to assist local organisations and agencies to implement training and education initiatives to address the needs of recipients of welfare payments and their families who are distant from the labour market. The programme is demand-led and is designed to fund one-off projects in response to local customer needs, as identified by local organisations. Applications for co-funding are made to a Department employment personal adviser. Programmes covered can include pre-employment courses, literacy skills, return to education courses and personal development programmes. Payments were made to ten organisations nationally during 2022 under the activation and family support programme, with expenditure of some €222,000. In County Cork, funding was provided to two organisations in 2022 with expenditure of €59,000 to support the provision of training to some 90 people. This included funding in respect of programmes taking place in 2022 and also payment for programmes completed prior to 2022. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy.
It goes without saying that we all understand the merits of this programme and would like to see it continue to be funded in the future.
I looked at previous parliamentary questions from over the years and was interested to learn that the funding in 2008 was €5.4 million, but in 2012 it was just €2.5 million. It has gradually reduced. The last figure I have in this parliamentary question was from 2017, when it was down to just over €500,000. What the Minister has just stated demonstrates that the funding provided for this programme has continued to decline over the years. Is that because it has been replaced by other programmes, or courses that people have been allowed to avail of? Can it be attributed to a lack of demand as a result of the high employment rate we have in the country? Will the Minister explain why the funding decreased to such a magnitude after 2008, from €5.5 million then to just over €500,000 in 2017?
I thank the Deputy. The activation support programme provides funding to local organisations and agencies to implement training and education initiatives. It is focused on the needs of social welfare recipients, and their families, who are very distant from the labour market. There is a plethora of other initiatives that help people to get back into the labour force. The Department makes a number of grants available to people who are long-term unemployed, or to employers, to help them to get back to work. I refer to the EmployAbility programme, the local area employment services and a number of different programmes. This programme is demand-led and supports employment service teams to work with local organisations to provide a tailored response to local training needs. Where initiatives are funded through this scheme, the Department can provide co-funding of up to 50% of the overall cost. The Government has provided €600,000 for the scheme in 2024.
I thank the Minister. As she said, the service is demand-led. It comes down to the area manager, the welfare office or the case officer dealing with the people to decide if the applicant is eligible for the service. The Minister has acknowledged in her response that up to 50% of the overall cost is also covered. Does the Department have any intention to review that 50% allocation or will that remain the case going forward? Second, the Minister mentioned that two organisations in Cork are availing of this funding in 2022. If possible, will she let me know what those two organisations are? Is there a plan to extend the funding to any further organisations in the future?
The expenditure in Cork involved the provision of €59,000 to two organisations: the social and health education project, SHEP, and Cork Education and Training Board. SHEP is an Irish community education and development organisation based in Ballintemple, County Cork. It received funding towards the provision of its certificate of personal development in a number of locations in Cork. Cork Education and Training Board received funding in 2022 that related to its return to work programme, which was held in 2018 and 2019. In 2023, funding of €31,000 was provided to one organisation in County Cork, the social and health education programme.
This is a demand-led programme. The Department currently provides 50% of the overall cost. A detailed proposal is received by the Department which includes the details of the proposed participants and comprehensive information on the duration and structure of the programme. In fairness, the Department approves the applications well in advance of the course starting.
16. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Social Protection if she has considered the scope for promoting engaging activities and positive health measures as a part of the welfare programmes promoted by her Department to the pensioners whom she supports with regular financial payments and occasional urgent need payments as part of a more joined-up approach to positive ageing. [18076/24]
The Minister's Department probably has the most extensive network connecting to people who have left the workforce. We know that staying connected and active is the key to the well-being of people have left the workforce. Will the Minister consider the opportunity she has for promoting engaging activities among people who have left the workforce because it is a huge gulf?
The Government is committed to supporting older people to access timely, high-quality, person-centred and integrated care in the most appropriate setting and to support positive ageing across the life course. To this end, the Minister for Health and the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health and older people brought forward a proposal for the establishment of an independent commission on care for older people. The Government approved the proposal in October 2023 and in March of this year the Minister for Health and the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health and older people announced the appointment of the members of the commission. The commission will examine the health and social care services and supports for older people across the continuum of care and make recommendations on their strategic developments. This is the appropriate forum for considering engaging activities and positive health measures for older people.
The terms of reference for the commission provide for the establishment of a cross-departmental group under the auspices of the commission which will examine areas such as social welfare supports for older persons. My Department has committed to engaging in this cross-departmental group when it is established and will support the work of the commission as needed. I hope this clarifies the matter in some way.
I agree with Deputy Bruton that a lot of older people have much to contribute to our society and we should find ways to harness that expertise and experience. I am happy to work with the Deputy to progress this matter further and I will take on board any suggestions he may have. I have extended the age limit to ensure that people can continue to work until the age of 70, if they wish to. I have changed the State pension accordingly to give people that option. Those are the things we need to do to facilitate that.
The Minister will have often heard the phrase "a stitch in time saves nine". Does the Minister agree that setting up a commission on care is already too late in the cycle? The reality is that if people stay connected and active after they retire, they will have many years of good health and not come into the caring system at all. As Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan just asked about, the Minister has developed a comprehensive activation programme for people who are in the workforce but suddenly, once someone has left the workforce, the Department's activation falls away. Is it not logical that well ahead of talking about care, we try to keep people active, well and connected? The Minister's Department has a far better chance of doing so than the Department of Health.
The Department has activation programmes. The level of unemployment among young people tends to be higher and we specifically want to focus on young people and on getting them back into the workforce. I visited Kilkenny yesterday and there was a jobs fair there. I have to say-----
Activation is not just about work; it can be in someone's community doing all sorts of things.
Yes, and that is why we have a Minister of State with responsibility for older people. I can only speak of what my Department is trying to do. I am also happy to work with the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health and older people, Deputy Butler, to progress any suggestions she might have in terms of how we can work with older people. We meet with Age Friendly Ireland. There is a lot of work in my other Department through the library services and how we can engage older people to take on different courses and learn new skills in that space. I take the Deputy's point and am happy to work with the Minister of State.
We are missing a beat here. We are too siloed in the way we think of this. We see people who are over a certain age as a caring problem, and not as an opportunity. Activation should be just as relevant to someone who has left the workforce as it is to someone who is aged 64 and wants to work for another year. It can be activation throughout the community in all sorts of unpaid positions in leisure and physical activities and all sorts of things. No Department is responsible for that at the moment.
There is a great nationwide programme, also in my own county, the university of the third generation, I think.
It is the University of the Third Age.
Yes. They do really good work.
They do..
I have spoken to them in my role as Minister for business about how they could contribute.
We should tap into that resource. I know some of those involved well and they have a lot to offer. I agree with the Deputy. We are missing a trick in terms of the valuable resource that we have in our older generation. As he said, we need some way to activate them. I am happy to examine how we can keep them in the workforce, especially given that people are now living longer and are healthier. Why not keep them in the workforce? It is an asset that we should use.
17. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Social Protection if she will provide an update on the creation of processing hubs for community welfare and other services; whether she is aware of any administrative difficulties caused by the creation of the hubs; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [18405/24]
Could the Minister provide an update on the creation of processing hubs for community welfare and other services and whether she is aware of any administrative difficulties caused by the creation of these hubs? I spoke to her about this issue on a previous occasion. A number of constituents have been affected by this. I sent some sample cases to the Minister. Some have been sorted but others have not. When some people provided the necessary application forms and information, it appears materials were lost and there were delays.
I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The community welfare service is committed to providing a quality service to all citizens, ensuring that applications are processed and ensuring that decisions on entitlement are made as quickly as possible. It is a key service and deals with approximately 12,000 claim applications per month. Over 2,600 additional needs payment claims are currently being received each week and of these 300 are for new accommodation kit-outs.
To deal efficiently with the volume of claims being received and to ensure a consistent level of service, local community welfare officers are now supported by a network of national administration support teams based in seven hubs located around the country. These hubs take on routine administrative tasks associated with claim processing, which frees up front-line community welfare officers to deal directly with clients and their claims and allows them to respond to any other events or incidents that arise. These measures show the clear commitment by my Department to support customers. The community welfare service support hubs have also played a vital role in the response to priority projects, including supporting people arriving from Ukraine, extreme weather events and the increase in international protection applicants.
There are no delays in any of the support hubs. All claims received by a hub are made ready for decision as quickly as possible and returned to the local community welfare officer within a short time for decision. There are no backlogs and work on hand is within normal community welfare service processing levels. Where the required claim application forms and documentation are supplied, claims are sent to local community welfare officers on the same day. Where it has been identified that a person has an urgent or immediate need, regardless of whether they have provided all the required documentation, these claims are referred immediately to a community welfare officer.
Community welfare officers are physically on site each day in over 50 Intreo centres across the country, where they are available to be seen without an appointment during business hours from Monday to Friday. In addition to meeting people in Intreo centres and Department of Social Protection offices, community welfare officers can facilitate an appointment within a short time of a person requiring such a meeting, at a mutually agreed location, including at the person's home.
In fairness, I understand the Minister has given a Civil Service answer. I do not buy the claim that there are no delays because I have seen too many of them. I accept what has been said in terms of the logic of removing the administrative burden from individual officers and operating hubs. I have sent information on particular cases to the Minister. We need to examine this issue. There are hold-ups. As I said, I have multiple examples.
On 9 January, a conscientious lady I know got new accommodation through a local authority and applied for a new accommodation kit. My office dealt with her and when we got in contact on 30 January we were told no application had been made. We were then told everything was being dealt with through the hubs in Cork. I am aware of multiple other issues, some of which I will detail in my supplementary question. There is a problem. I see the logic. We need to make sure the system works. If material is being lost, whether that is an email or something that has been handed into an Intreo office or provided through a pre-addressed envelope, we cannot have that set of circumstances.
The Deputy brought a number of incidents to my attention, which is particularly useful for me because we can learn from and act on that. The information pertaining to the people the Deputy has raised with me is confidential. We have gone through all of that and have come back to the Deputy with an answer.
The intention is not to lose documents or anything like that. The tracking of the receipt of documentation submitted to the office is being followed up. We are going through the issues the Deputy has raised. We do not want this to happen. We want people to get their payments efficiently. The Deputy will appreciate the thinking behind this. There is a lot of administrative work.
Community welfare officers are very skilled people in what they do. It was felt that some administrative work could be done by somebody else and community welfare officers could then continue to deal with people face-to-face. They want to see people and hear them on the other end of the phone or whatever else. There are no delays in any of the support hubs and all claims received by hubs were made ready for decision as quickly as possible and returned to the local community welfare officer within a short time for decision.
I appreciate the Minister following up on these issues because some people are in constrained circumstances, to put it simply. That is obviously beneficial.
I see the logic around streamlining. We need to make sure we catch whatever issues are happening regarding materials being lost. I have previously raised the issue of one lady who is raising kids with a number of disabilities. I am also dealing with someone who is going through cancer treatment and was dealing with the local authority about two exceptional needs payments. One case was closed on the basis of the information the woman had sent in and in the other she was told the office had not received the materials but then found them.
I accept that the Minister has looked into all of these issues individually and she and her offices will do everything they can to make sure we catch these teething problems, for want of a better term. We cannot take away from the huge work being done by community welfare officers. If we are streamlining the system, we need to make sure that works and there are no delays to people who, as I have said, are under constrained circumstances. We also need to make sure that materials are not being lost because there are wider issues around that.
The Deputy and I think the same way on this. We want people to get their money. Like the Deputy, I want them to get it when they need it. We are sorting out the issues the Deputy has raised with me and will learn from them. I advise all Deputies to bring any issues to my attention and I will take them up and see whether we can get them sorted. The Department of Social Protection is here to help people. People come for help when they need it. Our job is to provide that. In fairness to the many thousands of staff who work in my Department, they do a great job. If we need to take learnings from any new system that we set up, I am happy to do that and make the system better.
I spoke to the Tánaiste about the criteria in respect of the fuel allowance yesterday. We spoke about people being on pensions, including private pensions. I know of a family where a husband is 66 years of age and the wife has a private pension. They are below the level to qualify for the fuel allowance, but still cannot get it. What will the Minister do about this? Will she update the criteria? What will happen? Older people receive money from social welfare payments. What is the situation regarding the fuel allowance?
The Minister can revert to the Deputy with an answer on that because we are out of time. Has Deputy Ó Murchú something to say to the Minister before we conclude?
Yes. It concerns the launch date of the reformed reasonable accommodation fund. The Minister dealt with some of this earlier in respect of reviewing the entire process, particularly facilitating those with disabilities to enter the workplace. At times, there was a requirement on them or the employer, and it probably did not work perfectly regarding assistive technologies and so on. We need something that works to help the people in question to get into work, thereby benefiting society across the board. We want it as soon as possible; it must be quicker, better and faster.
Out of courtesy, I will reply. We have done much work on reasonable accommodation because employers were not taking up the grants. We want them to do so in order that places can be adapted for people with disabilities to come to work. That is the number one point. We put a lot into this, so it will be launched very shortly.
On Deputy Fitzpatrick’s query, could he bring the case to my attention so I can examine it? I expanded the income criteria for the fuel allowance for the over-70s and many have benefited from that. I will examine this specific case if the Deputy sends me a note on it.
