Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 21 May 2024

Vol. 1054 No. 4

Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

For the past year the Government has been telling everyone it has turned the corner on housing. Even as so many people across our society struggle to find an affordable home, it dresses up failure as progress. Today, however, we know the truth. The Housing Commission, established by the Government, has called the Government out today. Its leaked report, which would not have seen the light of day had RTÉ not broken the story, is a damning indictment of the Government’s housing policy. It talks about systemic failure, ineffective decision-making, reactive policymaking, and failure to deliver value for money, with one of the highest public expenditures for housing in Europe yet one of the poorest outcomes. This should be no surprise when the Government pays billions of euro to lease homes that go back to the wealthy property fund after 25 years.

The Housing Commission is telling the Taoiseach directly that his housing plan is not working. It states that only a radical strategic reset in housing policy will fix the problem. What does that mean? It means we must see a turn away from the disastrous housing policies of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and an urgent ramping up in the delivery of affordable homes to buy and rent.

The Government cannot even get its targets right. It failed to take account of more than a decade of unmet housing demand. Now we have a deficit which means families with kids live in the box rooms of their parents' homes. It means people living in the family home well into their 30s.

To respond to these challenges, the Commission calls for social and affordable housing delivery to increase to 20% of total housing stock. That is half of all new homes that need to be affordable and social.

The report makes it clear that Government failure is undermining affordability in the housing system. Those are its words. Housing affordability has been shredded. On the watch of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil, homeownership has collapsed for a generation. First-time buyers now face an average price of €400,000 to buy a new home. That is simply not affordable for the majority of people.

It is no better for those looking to rent. Yesterday's Daft.ie report shows that rip-off rents continue to soar. New rents are now averaging €1,836 per month. In Dublin it is a staggering €2,353 per month. Tá sé soiléir ó thuarascáil an Choimisiúin Tithíochta gur theip ar phlean tithíochta an Rialtais. Ní mór anois ach athshocrú ollmhór i bpolasaí tithíochta.

Fine Gael has been in government for 13 years, joined at the hip by Fianna Fáil for the past eight. Today their Housing Commission tells them that their housing policies have failed. It also makes it clear that there are solutions, that housing can be fixed, but only with a radical, strategic reset in policy. That means delivering housing that people can actually afford. It means taking on the vulture funds, the big landlords and the vested interests that are making the housing crisis worse. It means delivering the biggest affordable and social housing programme in the history of the State so that young teachers, nurses, gardaí and retail workers can afford a home. This is the urgent change we need in housing. Does the Taoiseach accept the view of the Housing Commission that the Government's housing plan is not working?

Does he accept that only a radical strategic reset of housing policy has any prospect of working?

The Taoiseach

I am very pleased that we have an opportunity today to discuss one of the largest and biggest social issues we face in this country, which is the housing challenge and making sure everyone in Ireland can have a roof over their heads, the young generation can aspire to own their own homes and parents can see their adult children move out of the box rooms in their homes and into homes with the security and certainty that brings for them and their futures.

It is important to say that any fair analysis of the situation would show progress when it comes to housing supply. We see it in every town and village in every county. Housing supply is increasing. We have seen 337 new homes commence construction every working day in Ireland. Those are incredible figures. In fact, this year so far, we have seen more than 30,000 new homes commence construction.

I am conscious that when it comes to a housing debate, we could get lost in figures and statistics. Of course, behind each of these new homes is the opportunity for hope and security for a couple or family and their futures. In fact, in Ireland now, approximately 500 couples every single week are drawing down their mortgages. However, it is absolutely true to say that every single day, Government is restless to do more and wants to do more. Government wants to hear new ideas about how we can continue to make progress. That is why we set up a Housing Commission. We wanted to bring together 12 people from very different perspectives and backgrounds to ask them to come forward with ideas. Deputies might remember what the Housing Commission was about. It was about enabling us to plan out to 2050 in Ireland so that we move beyond this boom-and-bust scenario where in some years, many homes are built and in others, none are built, to a situation where we have once and for all a sustainable long-term approach to housing. We asked it to do a body of work and it has done it. It has now submitted a report that is more than 400 pages long and has 83 recommendations and more than 500 actions and sub-actions. A terribly good thing to do when somebody does three years' worth of work would be for people to read the report before they decide what it says.

Deputy Joan Collins

And then take actions.

The Taoiseach

Then, take actions. That is a good idea too, Deputy Collins. Does the Deputy know what the Government will do this week? It will publish the report. What the Opposition might do is read the report. Then, we might come into this Chamber and debate the report to see how we can actually make more progress. This Government is making progress when it comes to housing supply and homeownership. This Government is putting in place plans, schemes and incentives that are helping hundreds of couples every single week to buy their first home. All Deputies see new homes being built in their constituencies. The Government also knows it is not just about the here and now, however. We have to look at when we get to 2050. Long before any reports in any media today, as Deputy Collins well knows, it was always the Government's intention to review the housing targets. The next half of this decade is not about plodding along. It is about a step change and raising the bar in terms of the amount of supply we can deliver every single year. We were always reviewing the housing targets in light of the census. The review is advanced. As the Deputy knows, the intention, which is informed by independent peer-reviewed research by the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, is to publish revised targets for the years ahead later this year and then work with people right across this House to make progress because that is what we need to do. Therefore, let us actually read the report with more than 400 pages, look at the 83 recommendations and 500 actions and then make a decision.

Deputy Joan Collins

Publish it.

The Taoiseach

We are standing here today in a vastly different place when it comes to housing supply from where we were only months ago, and in a very different world when it comes to housing supply from where we were years ago when my party first came to Government, which Deputy McDonald referenced.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

As I said, the party is now 13 years in government. Any fair analysis of the facts reflects record house prices, record rents and record homelessness. I do not know what world the Taoiseach lives in, but the reality I meet in communities across the State is one of crisis, stress and, in many cases, misery.

I do not think I am overstating it to say that when people live in overcrowded accommodation and are on a housing list with no real prospect of getting a house, they know that no matter what they do, they are not going to have deposit for a house they can actually afford. That is the reality. The Housing Commission is naming the Government's failure.

It says that we require a radical reset. The individuals on this commission have been critiquing Government policy for a long time. None of the ideas is new. Many of us have been telling the Government for the longest time that its housing policy has failed.

I want to ask this again. The Government established this commission. It has now landed on its verdict. The verdict is a big failure for Government policy and a call for a radical reset in housing policy. I want to know if the Taoiseach is prepared to countenance that radical reset that we need to solve what is now a social crisis.

The Taoiseach

We should not misrepresent what the Housing Commission was asked to do. The Housing Commission was asked to come up with recommendations about how to move forward with housing. That is what we asked it to do. We asked it to come up with recommendations. It has done the work and we thank it for that. We now consider the recommendations. The first thing we should do is publish the report. That will happen this week, then the Government will respond to the recommendations. I find it peculiar, when a Government asks people to come together and give ideas for the future, how it is misrepresented as something it is not. This is about what we do next, now that we have a functioning housing market, a growing workforce and increasing supply.

When it comes to being radical, we have already taken many radical steps, including interventions in the housing market that were never considered before. Last year had the largest social housing supply in 50 years. There are the first-time buyers' grants that Deputy McDonald would scrap, the establishment of the Land Development Agency, a rent tax credit, cost-rental, and reform of the planning laws. What is really radical when it comes to housing policy is that Deputy McDonald comes in here every day and outlines the housing challenge, and has yet to publish a full plan. All Sinn Féin would do for first-time buyers is abolish the supports we have put in place.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

A radical strategic reset of housing policy is what the Housing Commission has called for in its leaked report, excerpts of which have been published today. I think we all look forward to reading it but it is within Government's gift to publish it. It should be published and I am glad the Taoiseach says it will be published this week. What we know from what has been leaked is that it exposes what it describes as fundamental, systemic failures in housing policy, ineffective decision-making, reactive policymaking, risk aversion, and, crucially, a housing deficit of as many as 256,000 homes. The commission's report appears to confirm what we have all known for some time, that the Government's half-measures and ineffective policies are not working. They are not delivering homes for all those people locked out of housing today. Doubling down on those ineffective policies is making matters worse. We are in a housing crisis. It is a housing disaster, as our President, Michael D. Higgins, has said. The commission has said, in leaked excerpts, that emergency action is needed.

Where is the sense of emergency or urgency from Government? The housing crisis is the civil rights issue of this generation, yet week in, week out, all we hear from Government is self-congratulation, saying that its policies and housing plans are working. I am sure that, this afternoon, we will hear from Government Ministers and TDs in this Chamber about just how well they say Housing for All is working. That is not the reality. The Housing Commission has exposed the reality. It is not an Opposition party or ideological body. It was set up by the Government. I think the Taoiseach acknowledges that members of the commission comprise figures from the trade union movement, developers, academics and experts who have nothing to gain from gilding the lily or bringing personal bias. They are clear that we have some of the highest levels of public investment in housing in Europe, but our outcomes are among the very worst. In other words, the Government's housing policy has failed. The report confirms what some of us have been saying all along. Developer-led planning does not deliver the homes we need. Weak tenants' rights protections hurt renters and do not free up supply. Low, insufficiently ambitious building targets are damaging the wellbeing of our population.

It appears the report has been with the Minister for housing for a number of weeks now. This begs the question of whether publication was delayed because of the elections next month. Was the report going to gather dust on Custom House Quay until after 7 June because the Government was afraid of what it says? Was it deliberately delaying publication? I am thinking back to when the temporary ban on no-fault evictions was lifted and we saw RTB figures. The statistics on evictions in the fourth quarter of 2022 were delayed until after the lifting of the ban, some weeks after the original planned date for publication, as I found out by way of freedom of information. It looked very much as if political pressure had been applied to the RTB to delay publication.

We again asked whether publication of this important Housing Commission report - this damning indictment of Government failure - was also to be delayed until after the elections on 7 June.

I welcome the commitment that it will be published this week. Will the Government undertake to facilitate a Dáil debate when it is published? When is the Government going to start taking the necessary emergency action that the commission has recommended?

The Taoiseach

It is important to be fair, as the Deputy generally is. The Minister for housing, I believe, received this report on 8 May. That is 13 days ago, so let us not say that people have been sitting on reports for weeks. That is not fair.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I said "weeks".

The Taoiseach

It was 8 May, which I think was 13 days ago. Deputy Bacik's party has been in government. When one gets a report of over 400 pages, 83 recommendations and over 500 actions and subactions, one generally likes to consider them, work with one's team and develop responses. I do not think that 13 days is a long period of time to elapse. This is what a responsible Minister would do. We will publish the report this week. It is important that we publish the report because - I say this with respect to the Deputy - she asked whether the Government would implement this recommendation and that recommendation. With the greatest of respect to her and the House, people have not seen the recommendations. She might not even agree with them all herself. How does she know yet? So, before she calls on us to implement the recommendations, it is important to see them. We can set up housing commissions, but this is the Parliament of Ireland. This is where the people's representatives make decisions and where the Government makes decisions as well. It makes sense to publish the report in full and to publish all the actions. People will see a number of actions and recommendations that the Government has acted on already. I heard on radio this morning references to planning reform. The biggest planning reform possible is going on in this House right now with the planning Bill, which we want to see passed before this place breaks for the summer recess. An awful lot of work is going on and it is important to see the report in the light of day, compare and contrast where we are with a range of different recommendations and, indeed, see if there is a consensus or a divergence of views around some recommendations.

I will be very clear – it is absolutely my position and absolutely the position of the three parties in government and, I presume, the position of all parties in this House that housing targets and housing output will need to increase. I am very clear in relation to that. I do not need any commission to tell me that. I do not need any report to tell me that. I do not need any member of the Opposition to tell me that. It is the position of the Government that housing targets will increase, and that work is well under way. It is under way with two inputs: the 2022 census and independent peer-reviewed research from the ESRI. There is a timeline in relation to that. We will see the draft national planning framework published next month. That will go out to consultation, with the finalised version published later this year. That will set revised targets for the second half of this decade. I am publicly on record as saying that I believe the scale of the new housing we need to build between 2025 and 2030 is in the region of 250,000, which averages at around 50,000. I believe the Housing Commission, based on a leaked report, says the figure is around 56,000. There is a landing zone that I think recognises the need to catch up on a lost decade of investment.

It is not self-congratulatory to say progress has been made. When the Deputy's party joined my party in government in 2011, which was the height of the financial crash, there were less than 7,000 homes built in Ireland that year. We now have a situation where almost 33,000 homes were built in Ireland last year because we have made progress in rebuilding a sector that was absolutely decimated. Now we need to lift the scale of that ambition to give people hope, to get people out of the boxroom and to make sure that all of our housing supply numbers, our homeownership numbers and the number of people drawing down their mortgages all start to increase and go in the right direction.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I thank the Taoiseach for acknowledging the need to increase housing targets. Indeed, his predecessor also accepted that building targets were too low, but we are still waiting for those increased targets that are so badly needed. More than a year ago, we in Labour said that Ireland would need to see output of 50,000 new builds per year to meet the scale of need. That is now endorsed and confirmed, it appears, by the Housing Commission and the Taoiseach has effectively confirmed it himself. However, we still do not have a timeline from the Taoiseach as to when those revised targets will be published. I accept that none of us on this side of the House have seen the full report yet, but we need to know a timeline for when the Government is proposing to put the recommendations into effect. We need to hear that there is a sense of urgency in taking the emergency action that the commission has said is necessary to address the scale of the housing disaster.

In fairness, we did not know when the Minister for housing had received the report. The Taoiseach has now said it was 8 May, which was 13 days ago.

Deputy Brendan Howlin

What about an earlier version of it?

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We do not now when the Minister might have received a previous draft. It would be helpful to hear from the Taoiseach more clarity as to when the Government proposes to implement the recommendations in the report and to take that emergency action that is so necessary. More than 4,000 children are in homelessness. That is a key group of the population and society who cannot wait any longer and who need to see more urgency from the Government.

The Taoiseach

First, we are not waiting for any targets. We have a target for this year. It was always very clear what the target was going to be for this year.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

It is too low.

The Taoiseach

I believe we will exceed the target for this year. I accept that the targets need to significantly increase. There is a political consensus in relation to that. There is a body of work under way for quite a period of time and, for clarity, the revised targets will be published this year. That is the position. I hope that the draft national planning framework, which I believe is due to be published next month, will provide an opportunity during the summer months for consultation and engagement, with revised targets then published later this year.

The crucial question for every party in this House - Deputy Bacik has brought forward proposals and we bring forward proposals - is "how". How are you going to increase the supply? What are we going to do to get to where we need to get to? It sounds to me like we have a similar landing zone. I believe we need to build a quarter of a million more homes between 2025 and 2030. I read comments from the Housing Commission today that seem to be not that different. I read comments from the local election manifestos of different parties that seem to be not that different. It is not good enough for us just to say that, though. We have to show how we are going to get there, how we are going to provide the number of apprentices, how we are going to increase the trades, how we are going to have a planning system that works, and what the composition of that will be between social, affordable and private homes as well.

The Deputy talks about developer-led planning. What developer-led planning means is people building homes for people to be able to buy.

Deputy Róisín Shortall

It is not.

The Taoiseach

There are a hell of a lot of people in this country who still want their son or daughter to be able to buy a home. Social homes matter, affordable homes matter, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the builder building private homes as well. We need that mix and that composition.

Deputy Seán Canney

Today I want to raise an issue that is affecting many communities around this country. Outside on Kildare Street today, hundreds of people have gathered from 18 counties representing probably 50 community action groups regarding the development, proposed or otherwise, of wind farms across this country. It is unbelievable to think that the communities have to come together. They have formed an alliance called the Community Environmental Protection Alliance, CEPA.

The problem is that we have sleep-walked our way into providing wind farms all over this country to provide green energy. This agenda that we need green energy at any cost is being led by some politicians and also by the media. What is being proposed in many of the communities around our country is not a just transition. It is not the way to go. It is actually creating more problems that we will have inquiries about in ten to 15 years' time as to how we did these things.

If you take children with autism, the noise coming from these wind turbines can have an effect on them. The legal requirements are not being met on the ground when wind farms are being put in place.

The people who are outside the gates of Leinster House today are not left wing and they are not right wing. They are actually normal, ordinary people who took a day off work today to come up here to make a statement to the politicians that we have got to look at what we are at in terms of wind development.

One goes back to the regulations we have. The guidelines are there since 2006, a time when a wind turbine had a height of approximately 80 m. Today the proposals are at a height of 180 m, completely out of sync with any kind of recognition for what was there 15 years ago. The environment protection is there and the EU habitats directive is there but they are not being put in place correctly. Developers who have plenty of money can put in a submission, as they did in Belclare, of over 4,000 pages to An Bord Pleanála and expect the local community group to be able to decipher all of that and to come up with a counterargument without any funds, resources or expertise but, my God, today these people have made a statement. They are not going to take this lying down.

When the Taoiseach came into office, he stated that he needs to connect with the ordinary people. I would suggest that we make engagement with CEPA to sit down with them. They are ordinary people, they are working people and they are taxpayers but what they want to make sure is that the environment and the places in which they live and bring up their children will be safe and to protect generations to come.

The Taoiseach

I thank Deputy Canney for raising this issue today on behalf of his constituents. I passionately believe in renewable energy. I believe it is absolutely essential to get to where we need to get to in terms of our own energy independence.

We are living through a climate emergency. I know we share that view. The question the Deputy raised is about how we do it and how we try to bring communities with us as we address that.

Offshore wind in particular is our largest source of renewable electricity in Ireland. It accounted for almost 39% of all electricity generated last year. In many ways, this country is a world leader as regards the level of installed wind energy capacity per person as well as the integration of that into our grid. We need to do more when it comes to renewable energy. We have got to be quite honest about that. We need to do more when it comes to wind, solar and other forms of renewable energy. We also need to do that in a way that brings communities with us. That is a point I take very seriously because climate is an extraordinary challenge that every single one of us faces in every community. It is not an issue that divides rural or urban Ireland, or young or old. It does not differentiate. The planet is on fire. We need to see the switch to renewables. We need to bring communities with us and inject a degree of common sense and reasonableness in how we go about that.

As the Deputy knows, the review of the 2006 wind energy development guidelines has been going on for a very long period. This tries to address a number of key aspects of the guidelines, including set-back distance, noise, shadow flicker, community obligation, community dividend and grid connections. While the review has been ongoing for a very significant period, I am pleased to say that a lot of progress has now been made towards concluding the process. The Climate Action Plan 2024, which the Government considered today, sets out a timeline of the final quarter of this year for the publication of the revised wind guidelines. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage must now lead on delivering on that commitment, as I know it will. The changing and continuously evolving policy and technical context, including the new Planning and Development Bill 2023 I referenced, which is currently going through the Oireachtas, the revision of the national planning framework and the White Paper on the renewable electricity spatial policy framework, reinforce the need to ensure that the finalised guidelines, once issued, are fit for purpose. The point I am endeavouring to make is a lot has gone on since the review commenced.

The revised wind guidelines will provide guidance relating to the determination of wind farm planning applications and will have regard to current renewable energy and climate targets. It will also try to strike an appropriate balance with regard to the impact of wind energy development on local communities, which will address some of the issues the Deputy raised regarding noise annoyance and set-back distance. As part of the review process and in line with EU directive requirements, a strategic environmental assessment of the draft wind guidelines is also being carried out. In the meantime, the 2006 wind guidelines are the guidelines. They are the ones in force, but we expect to have new guidelines in place by the end of the year.

Deputy Seán Canney

I will say two things about what the Taoiseach said: people matter and families matter. It is important that in any rules, regulations, guidelines or anything like that we bring in, that our people have got to be at the top of the agenda. Deputy O'Donoghue will talk about this matter after me. However, it is important we see this as something that needs to be done for people on the ground. They are in the Gallery listening to the Taoiseach. I ask him to take on board that CEPA needs to meet with him as a matter of urgency, together with Deputy O'Donoghue and me. That is important for the sake of the faith we need to restore in what we are doing here. We can have a roof revolution in terms of green energy.

We have got to learn something from what happened at Derrybrien, where we erected turbines and demolished the environment, but now cannot use the turbines because they have been ruled out of order in Europe. It has landed at the end of the road as regards planning. Something happened there that was wrong, which has been repeated and repeated. It is time we said stop, until we have something where we know what we are dealing with and deal with it for the people.

The Taoiseach

I thank the Deputy. Obviously, people and communities absolutely matter. That is why it is important to say on the record that there will be an opportunity, before the draft guidelines are finalised, for further input and consultation, including with CEPA. I have no difficulty at all in meeting with CEPA. I just have to arrange it in my diary. I am very happy to make sure that happens, along with engagement with relevant line Ministers as well.

We all need to be honest about this, which we are. People and communities should not be misrepresented. We need renewable energy. We all get that.

We also need guidelines that work, that are fit for purpose and that take cognisance of a number of the changes we have seen in recent months and years and some of the provisions in the planning Bill that I have outlined. We hope that Bill will be passed into law during the summer period. We will work to get this right. We will engage with communities and work to have a replacement for the 2006 wind guidelines later this year.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

I am not against wind turbines. However, I am against wind turbines that do not allow people to have a night's sleep. I have been trying to think of a way to get through to those in government in order that they will understand how important it is that they listen to this. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, is alongside the Taoiseach. In addition to them, how many parents, grandparents and brothers and sisters of young children are here? When young children come home from the maternity hospital, you spend the first eight to 12 weeks trying to get them into a sleep pattern. You are hanging for sleep and they are trying to sleep. That is what those people up in the Gallery have been putting up with since 2006. There is no end to their inability to get a night's sleep. Why? It is because energy companies' profits are being put before people's lives.

A study carried out here showed that in order to make the number of wind farms there are in Ireland viable, a 100 m high turbine must be kept 400 m away from homes. In any other European country, the ratio is 100 m to 1 km. It is set at 100 m to 400 m here because Ireland has a smaller land area and that is what is needed to make it viable. The profitability of wind farms is coming down and they are showing losses. Why is that? It is because the ratio is being kept at 100 m to 400 m. The companies would like it to be set at 100 m to 200 m. That is what is wrong. Offshore turbines are a better option because they are located away from people's homes. Every time the Taoiseach sees a wind turbine going round or a person from the 20 counties represented in the Gallery today, he should remember when he brought his babies home, hoping that they would sleep one night in order that he could get a night's sleep. That is what the Government has been putting these people through since 2006 with outdated regulation.

The Irish courts have ruled that wind turbine noise is a nuisance and that the neighbours of wind farms are being deprived of sleep. The High Court confirmed that the Government got it wrong. The noise guidance and planning conditions that are in place have not protected neighbours' sleep. That is what is wrong here. The Taoiseach has said that this is not an urban thing or a rural thing/ However, there are no wind farms in urban areas; they are located in rural areas. We are asking for the Government to get the distance right. It should go with 100 m to 1 km, let these people get a night's sleep and let them have a future. Can the Taoiseach imagine his children going to school without having had a night's sleep? Can he imagine someone driving a truck, a bus or any other vehicle without having had a night's sleep? That puts other people in danger, but those to whom I refer have to go to work to feed their children and protect their families. If this regulation is not changed to ensure that the ratio is least 100 m to 1 km, the Government will not protect the families who are here today.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is giving me awful flashbacks to sleepless nights. If I do not get one tonight, I will know he has jinxed me. I thank him very much for raising this important issue. He does not need to tell me or anyone in this Government about listening to people. His language suggested that he listens and the rest of us do not. That is unfair to people who listen to communities all of the time. I am listening to the communities here today. I am also being honest with them, as I am sure the Deputy is as well. Renewable energy is needed. I do not believe there is anyone in the Gallery who is suggesting it is not.

What I said was not about wind turbines. I said that the climate emergency is not divided between rural and urban areas. Regrettably, there is sometimes a real effort in this House to suggest that it is, although I am not necessarily saying the Deputy was making such an effort today, and that the climate emergency is an idea from those people up in Dublin. The climate emergency is very real. I was at Lough Funshinagh in rural County Roscommon and have seen the very serious and difficult situation people are facing there. That is the point I am making. When it comes to the climate emergency, we need to try to bring communities with us and to help because we want to protect those families. We want that baby who is struggling to sleep at night to have a community and a planet to inherit. That is why we are all here. That is why we all come to work every day.

We are listening and we are going to revise the 2006 wind guidelines once and for all. I have outlined the process we are undertaking to allow us to do that. I am pleased that the process is finally advancing well.

The Climate Action Plan 2024, which the Cabinet approved literally only a couple of hours ago, contains an annex of actions - this is for the benefit of the people in the Gallery - that says what we are going to do this year. There is a specific action which states that we are going to finalise the revised wind guidelines for publication in the quarter 4 of this year. When the guidelines are published, there will be a further opportunity for Deputy O'Donoghue's constituents and the people in the 20 counties that are represented in the Gallery to have their say on them. This will be done by means of further public consultation and input. We will publish draft guidelines and we will give people an opportunity to have their say. The Department of housing will lead on that. I am happy, as are my colleagues, to have engagement with Community Environmental Protection Alliance, CEPA, and with others who have an interest in this matter. Let us try to get it right once and for all this year.

Deputy Richard O'Donoghue

I am not a climate change denier. I know we need energy, but I also know that we need people to enjoy this country and have the opportunity to enjoy the future. Nobody should be left behind. New South Wales in Australia issued an energy noise guidance at 35 dB LA90. This is designed to protect people's health. The Government here continues to allow 45 dB LA90, or double the loudness. The authorities in Australia are getting it right because they want to protect people. The Taoiseach said he wanted to protect the children. It is all right to protect the children and the babies, but we must also protect the mothers and fathers, the grandfathers and grandmothers and the brothers and sisters from what is happening. The Government should trust the science. Since 2006, data has been provided by scientific people to show that living too close to wind turbines causes health problems. That is scientific data that has been built up over a period of almost 18 years. However, the Government has still not changed the guidance and regulations relating to these turbines. These people would not be here today if the Government had done so. We are asking it to ensure that, at a minimum, that the noise be reduced to 35 decibels and that the distance that turbines have to be from houses be increased from 100 m to 1 km.

The Taoiseach

Every time ten people used electricity in Ireland last year, almost four out of ten times that electricity was generated from, in general, onshore wind. This is playing a major part in all of our constituents' and citizens' lives, particularly when they boil the kettle, turn on the light, open the fridge or turn on the television. Ireland is very dependent on this form of energy. Let us be honest about this; we do not want the lights to go out. We need to have an energy supply. Almost 40% of the electricity generated here last year came from these sources of energy.

We need to get the guidelines right. I accept that this has been going on for a long time. I also accept that it has been going on for too long. I want finality to brought to this matter in order that there will be certainty this year in the context of what the revised guidelines are. I want communities, citizens and people to have an opportunity to have a say in the draft guidelines, and then I want us to publish the final guidelines this year. We are listening, we are engaging and of course we will follow the science.