Vol. 1054 No. 6
6. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he is considering further funding to abolish higher education tuition fees and move to a fully free public education system; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19521/24]
I have never thought that fees for higher education made any sense. Why on earth would one ration access to higher education, college or university? But when we are looking at absolutely chronic skills and labour shortages in just about every sector of our society at the moment, is it not time to remove all obstacles to people getting trained, skilled and educated in key areas where we need people to work in our society?
I thank Deputy Boyd Barrett for raising matters on the cost of supporting students and higher education tuition fees.
As the Deputy will be aware and will appreciate, at this time it is not possible to provide an indication of the measures that may be introduced in budget 2025. However, in advance of budget 2025, I will be publishing an options paper which will set out the various possible measures to reduce the cost of attending further and higher education for families and students. I will have regard to these options, including any options in respect of providing additional higher education tuition fee supports, when making proposals in the context of the budget.
The progressive implementation of measures to address cost as a barrier to education is an important priority for this Government. We have committed significant additional resources towards supporting students in recent years. As part of the cost-of-living measures introduced in budgets 2023 and 2024, the student contribution payable by students eligible for the free fees initiative were cut by €1,000 in the last two academic years.
A number of other measures aimed at addressing the cost of education have been introduced to support students and their families. These include increases to the SUSI maintenance grants, a new student contribution grant of €500, increased stipend payments and additional funding for the student assistance fund.
I can assure Deputy Boyd Barrett that providing accessible, affordable high-quality tertiary education to all learners, regardless of their background, will continue to be a core priority for me and for the Government.
These are under-pressure, slow and incremental moves by the Government. We are in a very serious situation, however, and we need a bit of bold and radical thinking. Take, for example, the area of special needs which I and others have been campaigning on, particularly over recent times because of such a dire situation there. There is a lack of teachers, special education teachers, psychologists and almost all of the allied health professionals. As a result, vulnerable children do not have special education resources, teaching, or classes, and they are on waiting lists for assessments and services. Why? Because we do not have the trained professionals in them. Then you talk to the people who are trying to study those things and they say the fees are crippling. Many people drop out. It is too expensive to get qualified in these areas. It makes no sense to put financial barriers in the way of getting people educated to the highest level in areas like this when our society is crying out for them.
I am sure Deputy Boyd Barrett would accept that we are on the one page on this issue. I never thought I would be on the same page as People Before Profit on anything but I imagine that the Deputy would subscribe to the idea that where resources are limited and finite, they should be targeted toward the people who need them most. Thus, it is on a means-based, targeted system, which is what we have at the moment. In recent years, the Taoiseach and former Minister, Deputy Harris, has been on a pathway to do that with the cost-of-living measures and the SUSI measures that have been put in place.
The Deputy mentioned students with special needs. It is also important to recognise that PATH 4, which never existed before, now gives an opportunity to people who, for many years, were locked out of the third level sector. They now have an opportunity to get what the rest of us take for granted. This should be welcomed in the context of what the Deputy is saying. All of this comes in the context of the money available to me and the Department and the choices that have to be made. In the coming weeks and months I will be listening to people like the Deputy in this regard.
Yes, but this needs a whole-of-government approach. It cannot just be the Minister. If we do not have early intervention for children with special needs, the costs down the line for the rest of society will be huge. There has to be holistic thinking. If we get people trained in areas like the allied health professions and as nurses, doctors, teachers and so on, we will save society a lot of money down the line and we will be helping our young people to get qualified, thereby helping our society and economy. It is an almost 19th-century anachronism to ration access to education. We used to ration access to secondary education. If you suggested that now, people would think you were insane. We have to realise that we are in a new world now and we need these skills and professions and, therefore, we have to remove the financial barriers for people. I could have talked about many other sectors in this regard.
I remember when the student contribution charge was brought in. Everybody knew it was fees by another name. Realistically, it is long past time for it to be removed. Instead, what we saw in the last budget, which surprised me, were more one-off measures. We are past the time for that; we need to do better than one-off measures. We need to hear a commitment from the Government that multi-annual funding will be set aside for the permanent removal of this charge in order to allow people to plan for the future. Just like our previous discussion on student accommodation, if people are being told measures are once-off, they are not sure what will happen next year or the year after. It is high time to remove this charge.
All options will be on the table when I discuss this matter with the Ministers, Deputies Donohoe and McGrath. Regarding Deputy Boyd Barrett's comment about the 19th century, if we had a 19th-century approach to third level education, I would never have had the chance to go to university because I did not go to a private school. That is the reality. This country has been transformed through investment in primary, secondary and tertiary education. This has allowed people from backgrounds similar to mine to go to university. We would never in a million years have been able to do so otherwise.
Regarding the fees, the cost to the Exchequer of the free fees initiative is €357.9 million. In 2022-23, 141,000 students benefitted from the initiative and €156 million was paid towards student contributions under the student grant scheme. These are not insignificant amounts of money. I agree that with a growing population we always need more. There is a budgetary constraint that we will be working towards between now and when the next budget is presented. I will take on board all ideas, regardless of where they come from.
7. Deputy Brendan Smith asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the major capital projects that will be progressed this year in the further education sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23273/24]
I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and wish him well in his new role. I very much welcome the emphasis that has been placed on the development of further education since the Government took office in June 2020. I spoke to the Minister's predecessor on many occasions about the opportunities that exist to develop the further education sector on an all-Ireland, cross-Border basis. I am particularly glad that there is a substantial capital programme. One of the projects of particular interest to me is the proposed development of the state-of-the-art campus in Cavan to provide additional accommodation for Cavan Institute. I would be grateful to get an overall view of what is happening on the building schemes.
I thank the Deputy for his warm words. In 2022, two new capital infrastructure programmes were launched to provide for significant investment in further education and training, FET. These programmes are the FET college of the future major projects fund and the strategic infrastructure upgrade fund. The college of the future major projects fund will support projects that can help drive reform of the FET sector, including through consolidation of provision, the integration of further education and training, the realisation of centres of excellence, and unified tertiary planning.
During this year, ETBs that are progressing proposals under the FET college of the future major projects fund will build on the significant work already completed in further developing and refining their proposals to bring a clearer focus on proposals to meet the required priority infrastructure. Once business cases are updated, they will be evaluated by SOLAS and my Department. Proposals that meet the required evaluation criteria will move to the next stage of development, which is the planning, procurement and design stage, and this will take place this year.
The strategic infrastructure upgrade fund is a fund to support smaller-scale investments in existing FET infrastructure, while ensuring that works are progressed within the context of an overall strategic plan for buildings and is aligned with college of the future principles. There are currently 19 projects being progressed following this programme call, all at various stages of project development, and these will also be progressed this year.
In 2024 the total available capital budget for the ETB sector is €65.5 million. I have heard quite a lot about the Cavan campus and it is my intention to visit it as soon as possible and to meet the local ETB in this context.
I thank the Minister for his reply. He would be very welcome to visit Cavan Institute, which has been a very successful institute since its establishment. I was very much involved with Cavan Institute as I was the chair of the first board of management of the college. I was involved in having the initial buildings and accommodation provided. It was actually the first dedicated PLC college in the country. It has been extremely important for Cavan and the neighbouring counties. It has developed collaborations with colleges north of the Border as well, which is very important. The college on Cathedral Road in Cavan does not have enough accommodation. It needs additional permanent accommodation which will be provided as part of the college of the future initiative. I am very anxious that this proposed building project should proceed through the various stages as soon as possible, and that we see additional permanent accommodation being provided, adjoining the existing institute where there is ample space to provide more classrooms and ancillary accommodation.
I agree with the Deputy. One of the statistics that bears testimony to what he is saying is that in a very short period, the budget for FET has grown from €5 million to €65 million. This comes from the creation of the Department, which was a commitment in the programme for Government. Let us be realistic, when all of this was part of the remit of the Department of Education, further education was lost, to an extent, particularly in the context of the capital requirements because there were so many other competing demands. Now, with a designated Department, further education is really being prioritised and this allows ETBs in particular to have access to funds that they never in a million years previously thought would be available to them. That should be recognised.
Regarding the Cavan Institute, as the Deputy stated it is being progressed under the FET college of the future project. Cavan and Monaghan ETB is now further refining its proposal to bring a clear focus to meet the infrastructure requirements. Once the business case has been refined and updated, it will be evaluated by SOLAS. I know I stated in my initial reply that a number of these projects are progressing, but they will not progress together based on which one is the slowest. Whichever ones can move at the quickest pace will be the ones that will be advanced. We will not be holding them back.
I can assure the Minister that Cavan and Monaghan ETB will work very diligently on this. It has put together a very strong business case to advance this accommodation proposal. I do not think that we in this House can emphasise enough the importance of the further education sector. Over the years I have seen many young people who may have come from communities where there was not a particularly heavy emphasis on education go on to further education, such as Cavan Institute and Monaghan Institute, and get qualifications. Sometimes it is a pathway to higher education or to a very successful career.
As the Minister knows well, another very important aspect of the colleges of further education is that they respond to local needs of local industry and communities. Again, I emphasise the opportunities there are for further collaboration with South West College in Enniskillen and Omagh. I have had a very close association with those colleges over the years and there is great potential there to develop the sector on an all-Ireland basis. I know the capital budget was put in place was to ensure these colleges have the most modern and appropriate accommodation to meet the needs of their students and the staff delivering the services there.
It is important to point out as well that there was a devolved grant scheme, which was administered by SOLAS but came from the Department, of just over €8 million from which the Cavan and Monaghan ETB benefited to the tune of under €500,000. It is small money in the overall context, but it is certainly an awful lot of money when you are looking for it. It is a lot of money in terms of making sure the basic infrastructure requirements that are needed for the trainees and the employers to whom Deputy Smith refers can be met in the short and immediate term. The challenge now will be to make sure the business case is advanced and prioritised as quickly as possible and that we can turn it around. We have a capital budget that we never had before. These are the types of places, particularly in regional and rural locations, where people will receive tertiary education. That is why rural towns like Cavan and Monaghan are the places I would like to see prioritised during my tenure in this Department.
8. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if he has assessed the potential impact of artificial intelligence on the content of the jobs of those currently in the workforce, and the reskilling that may be necessary to ensure the capacity of workers to adapt; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23310/24]
As the Minister well knows, artificial intelligence will rapidly disrupt established ways of doing things as it integrates into our world. It will disrupt education and its delivery, but it will also disrupt many workplaces and create skill needs. To what extent is this now anticipated? What planning and strategies are being put in place?
Ireland's national AI strategy, AI - Here for Good, launched in 2021, outlines how Ireland can be an international leader in the use of artificial intelligence to benefit the economy and society. The strategy is founded on three core principles, namely, adopting a human-centric approach to the application of AI, staying open and adaptable to new innovations and ensuring good governance to build trust and confidence for innovation to flourish. A key enabler to support AI adoption is to ensure our workforce is prepared for the impact of it. The stability programme update published last month summarises work in the Department of Finance to assess the potential impacts of AI on the Irish labour market. The research identifies occupations that are relatively more exposed and susceptible to AI applications where upskilling opportunities can reduce the risk of employment losses. It also identifies occupations most open to the integration of AI in a complementary way, increasing innovation and productivity in the workplace. The refreshing and updating of the national AI strategy currently under way provides the opportunity to examine how best Ireland's education system can support and enable the transformation of the workforce, which is expected to be driven by AI adoption. This work is being built on the detailed framework set out in the skills dimension of the national digital strategy.
I appreciate that there is a strategy in place but that strategy is four years old and, with the pace of this, changes occur within months. The enterprise committee, of which Deputy Stanton is also a member, heard this week that only 5% of companies are engaged in any sort of reskilling for the onset of artificial intelligence. We need an accelerated programme in areas such as Skillnet Ireland and the Springboard programmes to look at workforces that need to adapt rapidly. We know it is already hitting journalism, as well as lawyers, programmers and accountants. White collar positions will be dramatically impacted. We need to see programmes and the capacity to deliver them. The capacity to deliver skills in this area will be a real constraint.
I do not disagree with the Deputy, particularly in the context of the European Union's European Year of Skills and the volume of skills that either cannot be met or are under threat. AI has the best of both worlds. It is something to be embraced but it is also something to which we will have to adapt in our education system, particularly in further and higher education. I do not disagree with anything said by the Deputy in that context. I met with representatives from Skillnet during the week. It provides an absolutely fantastic employer collaboration, together with my Department, SOLAS, the ETBs and others, in making sure that existing employees are continuously being put on a pathway to absorb the skills that are needed not just for the future but also for the here and now. There are over 70 of these Skillnet networks and initiatives across the country which are providing a real opportunity that is employer-led and a bottom-up, rather than a top-down, approach, which is ultimately what is going to be needed. We can use the word "accelerated" or we can perhaps use the word "heightened" but it is something that as a Government, not just through this Department but also through the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, we will have to embrace in the coming months to a degree that other countries are probably not reaching at the moment.
To give the Minister an example, we had the major consultancy firms in before the committee. They have every staff member now going through a process of understanding and equipping themselves to deal with the disruption, and opportunity, indeed, of artificial intelligence. Will the Minister of State consider putting some of his senior staff through a programme such as that in order to build the capacity and the capacity to anticipate? This is going to break on us at such a pace that conventional ways of planning educational programmes will be blown out of the water. We need to think differently about this challenge.
Before the Minister comes in, there are a number of supplementary questions.
I strongly support Deputy Bruton in what he is saying. This has been called the fourth industrial revolution. I was at the committee meeting to which the Deputy refers. The amount of funding the companies are putting in here is staggering. Billions upon billions of euro and dollars are being spent by the large multinational companies in this area. It is going to change everything and it is happening as we speak. Does the Minister agree that at very least we should have a Cabinet subcommittee, if not a dedicated Oireachtas committee, to deal with this issue on its own?
The importance of this question goes without saying. In particular, we must consider the rapidity with which artificial intelligence is likely to affect the workforce in production activities all over the globe. Competitors around the world are availing and will avail very quickly of the opportunities on offer. At this stage, what is most important is to have a strategy that kicks in quickly in order to be able to maximise the opportunities, isolate the threats and try to ensure we increase production in every way possible in a way that is beneficial to the economy, employees and employers.
I thank Deputies Stanton and Durkan for their inventions. Going back to what Deputy Bruton said regarding what happened at the committee with the consultancy firms, I will certain review it and have a look at it. However, "Yes" is the answer. Deputy Stanton referred to this being a fourth industrial revolution. The last time, we had the introduction of robotics and all of a sudden people who were on assembly lines were made irrelevant and redundant and were put on a scrapheap. That is not where we want to get to. Neither do we want to get to a situation where senior officials in the permanent government are in any way discommoded or behind the curve on what is the best available advice. I will certainly have a look at the committee's deliberations and the conclusions it reached. Particularly given the remit of the Department of further and higher education into the future, not just for the current cohort of people doing their leaving certificate or about to enter junior infants but for people for the next 30 or 40 years, if the Deputy is asking whether I believe our senior officials should embrace that sort of opportunity to think outside the box, then the answer is absolutely "Yes".
Deputy Bruton had his two supplementaries but he can make a comment if he likes because we are not under pressure.
I will make one comment. To paraphrase the OECD, the leaving certificate is preparing young people to be second-class robots. Now that we have this new pace of change crashing upon us, we really have to take it very seriously.
The Minister is not getting the last word as we are moving on.
That is fine.
13. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science his plans to further expand and develop further education courses for people with disabilities and those seeking to avail of second-chance education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23290/24]
I want to give the Minister an opportunity to let us know what good work is taking place in his Department and at third level in order to expand and further develop further education courses for people with disabilities and for others who are seeking to avail of second-chance education and training.
Fostering inclusion is a core pillar of future of further education: transforming learning, the national further education and training strategy 2020-24. It identifies the needs of people with disabilities as a primary focus, acknowledging the need for more consistent support for this group. Widening participation is also a national target under the strategic performance agreements for 2022-24 agreed between SOLAS and the 16 education and training boards. The 2022 target of 16,788 learners from priority groups was exceeded, with the ETBs reporting 18,810 unique learners, including 12,578 learners with disabilities. Taking account of all provision, 12,704 learners declaring disabilities were enrolled in further education and training programmes in 2022. This figure increased to 14,689 in 2023. I can provide these statistics to Deputy Stanton.
Since 2018, SOLAS has published an annual overview of learners with disabilities' engagement in FET programmes. The most popular programmes in 2022 were adult literacy, community education, PLC and BTEI programmes. The ETBs engage specialist training providers such as Rehab’s national training network to support people with disabilities who require more intensive support. With more than €40 million in annual investment, SOLAS commissioned an evaluation of the programme, which is due to be completed shortly. Significant funding is targeted at tailored supports, including guidance, specific financial supports and psychological supports. Universal design for learning principles are being adopted across the sector, with guidance and support for FET practitioners on how to incorporate UDL practices in the curriculum. Together with SOLAS and the ETBs, the Department is committed to continuing support for the development of equal opportunities for people with disabilities by providing high-quality, inclusive and flexible education and training programme options with tailored supports.
I thank the Minister for his support and acknowledge the good work in his Department at this level and the progress made. I have supplementary questions on this issue. Will the Minister look at the provision of changing places and toilets in third level institutions? These are toilets used by wheelchair users; they are bigger spaces. It makes a massive difference for people who are wheelchair users if they have these facilities. Perhaps the Minister will take that on board. I know that regulations were signed last year by another Minister, in the Department of housing, making them mandatory in new buildings.
Does the Department have a role in ensuring that transport to and from third-level institutions and places of training is available to people with disabilities? I am aware that some Bus Éireann routes do not have wheelchair-friendly buses. It is all very well having courses and supports but if they cannot get there, it is a big challenge.
They are practical questions. I will come back to the Deputy about them. Regarding toilets in public places, for a lot of places of learning, whether FETs, universities or ETBs, it depends on their ownership, but the building regulations apply to them. If they are public buildings, there is need to have regard to all users and all people's ability to be mobile, regardless of who they are or where they come from. If there is a specific issue of which the Deputy is aware, he can tell me about it afterwards and I will have a look at it.
Concerning transport for people with disabilities, I am due to meet Bus Éireann in the next week or ten days about a range of issues, including timetables and practical matters. There is no point in a bus leaving five minutes before the class ends. Those are the types of complaints the Department gets. If there are specific issues regarding transport and toilets on some campuses, I ask the Deputy to let me know and we will have a look at them.
I thank the Minister for his positive response. Transport to college is a big issue, as is the availability of wheelchair-accessible places on buses and so on. Perhaps the Minister might take on board the suggestion of a national survey.
Will the Minister comment on the view of his Department and the sector in general regarding people with autism attending third level and further education and training courses? Sometimes people with autism need supports such as quiet spaces, as the Minister is aware. Has much work been done in this area? I know a lot of work has been done in the Oireachtas in this area and the Department has looked at the issue in conjunction with the Higher Education Authority and third level colleges and colleges of further education and training.
It is interesting that the Deputy has raised this issue. I had a discussion yesterday on the fact that if a child enters primary school, requires assistance and gets a special needs assistant, moves on to the second level system and has access to the same level of support and physical supports, whether sensory rooms or quiet spaces, that need does not stop when he or she transitions to third level. Work will have to be done in this space. In the other Department, the Department of Education, much of the focus, quite rightly, in recent times has been to play catch-up with the deficit in the number of special needs assistants and supports for children. For my Department, going forward, it will be an ongoing priority to make that transition as seamless as possible, not only for the learners but also for their families. It is a huge step in their lives. I am anxious to see how we can support them.
14. Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the number of additional places that have been added to nursing and medicine since 2020 for Irish and EU students; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23293/24]
How many nursing and medicine places for Irish and EU students are currently in the system? To broaden that out, I ask the Minister a simple question - does he agree with the statement, "We do not train half enough health and social care professionals"?
I will answer the question regarding nursing and medicine first. Ensuring an appropriate pipeline of suitably qualified professionals in nursing and medicine is a key priority for me and my Department. I want to build on the progress made in the past few years in expanding the number of places in these disciplines. In 2020 and 2021, in response to particular circumstances relating to the pandemic, temporary once-off places were created. In nursing, 134 places were created in 2020 and 205 were created in 2021. Recognising the requirement for systemic expansion, substantial permanent expansion has been introduced in more recent years, with 135 nursing and midwifery places created in 2022 and a further 255 in 2023. In addition, 140 places were made available in Northern Ireland in 2023 for students from this jurisdiction.
In July 2022, a landmark agreement was reached between the medical schools, the Department and the Department of Health to increase the number of annual medicine places available for Irish and EU students by 200 by 2026. This increase is being phased in and 160 of the 200 places will be available for Irish and EU students from this September. This represents a huge increase in the existing infrastructure. An agreement was also reached in February with Queen's University Belfast for the funding of 25 additional medical places there from September 2024. These places will be cofunded by my Department and the Department of Health. Students who take up one of these places will commit to applying and accepting, if offered, a position in the HSE as an intern at the end of their studies. I will continue to work with all relevant stakeholders, including the HSE, to provide sustainable expansion of places in healthcare programmes across the island of Ireland.
The Minister provided figures but does he agree with the statement, "We do not train half enough health and social care professionals"? That is what the Minister for Health has been saying for the past couple of years. He lays the blame squarely at the feet of Fine Gael for not providing him with the workforce he needs. That is the issue - things are bounced between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael and between the Minister for Health and the Minister for further and higher education. The Minister for Health says he is not being given the work supply he needs, therefore he cannot make things work. I ask again if the Minister agrees with that statement. If so, why has so little progress been made to increase the number of places in healthcare, including nursing and medicine? I am trying to get a hold on the issue in terms of the demand, what we need for workforce planning and what is being supplied. How does that match up?
I am sorry to disappoint the Deputy-----
I am not disappointed.
There is continuous engagement between our Department, the Department of Health and the HSE with regard to workforce planning and our burgeoning population in view of the fact that the economy has been completely revived since 2011. I know the Deputy and her party like to create the impression that everybody is leaving the country, but the reality is that they are not. We have a growing population with growing needs. People are living longer and older, which is a great thing. We know, as a Government, that we will need more disciplines across a wide area of the public sector. We know and appreciate that, and we work within budgetary constraints. The attempt the Deputy is trying to make to turn this into some sort of an internal Government Punch-and-Judy thing could not be further from the truth. As already stated, I read out the numbers for nursing and medicine, about which the Deputy asked, particularly in an all-island context, which is something, I presume, the Deputy would welcome. As the Taoiseach has said in this Chamber, it is the Government's intention to increase the number of places in all disciplines, including dentistry and speech and language therapy.
The Minister spoke about people not leaving the country. I will give him an example from the small, remote, rural area of Belmullet in which I live and from the Mullet Peninsula in County Mayo. More than 50 young people have left to go to Australia alone. Those are the facts, and he can check them out with his local people. Many of them are nurses, doctors and other clinicians we badly need here. It certainly gives me no joy whatsoever that this is the situation we are in. I obviously welcome an all-island approach. I firmly believe in a national health service based on need and not on ability to pay, but I also believe we need the workforce planning to be able to facilitate that. What is happening in the context of further and higher education and health is, as the Minister knows, that the former is so underfunded. I think €309 million was the figure agreed in respect of further and higher education because it was so underfunded. Many foreign students are coming in. They are very welcome, but we also need to make sure that we have the workforce we need here and that the clinical places are available. The other Minister is saying that there are not enough clinical places available to produce the workforce we need.
I do not agree there is any problem with foreign students coming into Irish universities. Plenty of Irish pharmacists, doctors and physiotherapists train in Scotland, Wales and England every year. This has been the case for some time. That is a good thing. I do not agree with that at all.
The Deputy referred to it being underfunded. I accept that there is a figure to which we would all like to get. It would be appropriate for the Deputy to recognise that in the past two budgets, the former Minister, now Taoiseach, made substantial progress in bridging that gap. I do not think that even the Deputy, as former spokesperson in this area, said in the Sinn Féin pre-budget submission that the gap should be closed in one calendar year. I do not believe anybody would suggest that. If the Deputy has to inquired with me about it, then I ask her to at least not be disingenuous and say that we can somehow close the gap in one year.
I am not.
With regard to population, I take my statistics from the Central Statistics Office. I represent a rural constituency. The Deputy knows as well as I do that every district electoral division has experienced an increase in population. This cant that people are leaving the country is just not true.
I am trying to get in as many people as possible.
16. Deputy David Stanton asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science if his Department is proposing the provision of a new University College Cork dental school and hospital facility; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23271/24]
This question relates to the need for a new dental school and hospital facility in Cork. I was disappointed to learn recently that plans for such a facility were dropped last February. There is a major need in this regard. The current facility is old. It is too small, it is overcrowded and it is located on a busy campus. My information is that funding was the issue. I am interested to hear what the Minister has to say about this. Will he have a look and see if anything can be done to rescue the plan?
The Department of further and higher education is working closely with the Department of Health to expand the healthcare workforce capacity of the country, including oral healthcare. The Department does not place a quota on the number of places on dental courses, and the number of places offered is therefore a matter for the higher education institutions in line with their autonomy. I acknowledge, however, that due to the high level of practical work, there can be material constraints on the number of students that can be accepted onto dentistry courses. The Department works collaboratively with all higher education institutions on the development of capital projects in line with their established master plans. As an autonomous body, it is a matter for UCC to prioritise its capital projects, and in recent competitive funding rounds for capital funding by the State other priorities have been put forward ahead of the dental school by the university.
My understanding is that UCC has taken a decision to invest €15 million to refurbish the existing building to address the physical infrastructure deficits in the existing dental school and hospital. The HEA must also run an exercise to identify options for the creation of additional capacity in a range of priority healthcare disciplines including dentistry. A number of dental options, including an expansion to provision in UCC were identified. These options are reliant on additional capital investment. The Department is continuing to engage with Government colleagues to advance this process.
I thank the Minister for his response. Will he consider visiting the Cork university dental school and hospital as soon as he can? I am alarmed to discover that funding will be invested in the old building, which has been described as frail, constrained and ill equipped. What is really needed, as I am sure the Minister will agree, is a new building. Planning permission was granted for it, and it was full steam ahead. Because of Covid, inflation and so on, it did not go ahead, but the need remains and has increased. We have a long list of people in the country waiting for dental procedures. We need more places. With the talk about digital dentistry, we need a modern approach. Refurbishing an old, outdated, decrepit, small and constrained building is not really the answer. I am sure the Minister would agree with me on that. I ask him to visit there shortly. They are putting €15 million into an old building that is not fit for purpose. That is surely a waste of money, and we would surely be better off making funding available and doing a right job.
It is important to point out that UCC has received substantial government investment in recent years under a capital programme. These would have been identified by UCC. With regard to the dental school, we have to go back to 2016 when it was announced that UCC had secured a loan from the European Investment Bank, including €37 million to build a new Cork university dental school, research centre and hospital. On the more substantive issue the Deputy has asked about, I will actually be in Cork on Friday. I will be meeting some of the leadership in the university. I know this is a priority of theirs and is also a priority for the dental council because dentists have to be trained in an appropriate environment. It is also important to highlight the priorities identified by the university and made available to it from the Government included things like the business school and the Kane science redevelopment proposal, which were also successful.
I acknowledge that good work and it is hugely important but the need for a dental school and hospital remains. If I heard the Minister correctly, I am alarmed that €15 million in funding will be made available to refurbish an old building. For the sake of further, relatively small, investment we could have a state-of-the-art dental school in the south, which is badly needed. I understand the Higher Education Authority also recommended that investment be made to boost places. As the Minister stated, we have a growing population, a huge need and fairly serious waiting lists. We need more people trained and we need modern facilities that are adequate. The current facility is not adequate and putting more money into it will be a waste of funding. I ask the Minister to use his good offices to intervene in this matter and to talk to the university and his colleagues. For a relatively small amount of money, we could do a proper job and get a proper dental school and hospital in the south of Ireland. Not just Cork and UCC, but all of the south of Ireland will benefit from this. In fact, the whole country would. I ask the Minister to treat this as a priority, and when he is in Cork to go out of his way, visit that facility and see what I am talking about.
I concur with Deputy Stanton. This is a really important issue that has been raised previously. As the Deputy stated, it is an issue not just for those in the south of the country but also for everyone. There has been a 25% increase in the number of patients in the public system, and we are breaking at the seams in respect of the number of dentists there are versus the number we need. Between 24 and 26 students can go through the CAO process in that regard at the moment, but we clearly need more students to come on stream. This plan had been in place and should remain in place. It is welcome that the Minister will go to Cork on Friday and speak to people there. I hope this can be progressed and that, when he is in Cork on Friday, he will meet students. Students in UCC, UCD and Trinity have come out strongly in respect of Palestine. There have been encampments at the universities, and I hope the Minister will be willing to meet students in that context too.
For the academic year 2022-23, UCC had an intake of 50 and Trinity had 45, so the total is 100 or thereabouts. I do not disagree. This goes back to much of what the previous contributor asked about with regard to workforce planning. These are the dialogues we are having in respect of not only dentists but also pharmacists, vets, carpenters, builders and bricklayers. Regardless of the discipline, this is the area of conversation, whether in higher education or further education, about the capital requirements, the teaching requirements and the support requirements. Building a new school is not just a capital investment, which both Deputies will appreciate, and an ongoing cost is associated with it, which we will build in as we look to expand the various disciplines that are available in our colleges of further and higher education. We will examine the issue and I will revert to Deputy Stanton, by email or letter, once I have had a chance to meet the UCC authorities.
17. Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science to provide an update on his plans to enhance disability supports for students in higher education; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19707/24]
Inclusion is one of six strategic goals set out in my Department's statement of strategy. The national access plan, NAP, has identified a number of priority groups who are under-represented in higher education and need additional focus, including students with disabilities. The Department has provided funding of an additional €35 million to support the objectives of the NAP over its lifetime from 2022 to 2028, including a new PATH 4 stream, which puts a further focus on students with a disability, including those with an intellectual disability. PATH 4 supports inclusive, universally designed higher education environments and course provision for students with intellectual disabilities.
The first phase of funding, of €3 million, was distributed in the 2022-23 academic year and supported higher education institutions to embed universal design approaches and inclusive practices. An additional €1.8 million was announced in February of this year to continue the phase 1 implementation of universal design. Phase 2 is a three-year pilot programme to support an enhancement of course provision for students with intellectual disabilities, with a total investment of more than €10 million.
The successful courses, which have been designed specifically to meet the diverse range of needs of students with intellectual disabilities, were announced in February of this year, with the majority of courses commencing in September. The fund for students with a disability also supports participation by students with disabilities in approved further and higher education courses. Last December, my Department announced an increase to the annual fund for students with disabilities, FSD, of 5%, or just under €383,000. This brings the total funding available in 2024 to more than €8 million.
I appreciate the response. As the Minister will know, students with disabilities suffer significant disadvantage when it comes to college attendance and face additional costs to provide for their needs and equipment. The disability access route to education, DARE, programme provides significant supports to students with disabilities to access third level. The Minister's predecessor introduced the scheme in 2022. Are there any plans to enhance the funding for it in budget 2025?
As I said in response to other Deputies who raised issues regarding the budget, I will be guided to a large degree by many of the issues that are raised directly by Members of the House, including people such as the Deputy. The proportion of new entrants in 2022 who had a disability was 12.5%, whereas the current figure is 13.8%, with a target of 16%, so we are going in the right direction. The Taoiseach, the former Minister, Deputy Harris, was anxious that in respect of PATH 4, in particular, we would make strides in this area. As I said in response to Deputy Stanton, however, it comes with a broader suite of issues than just providing places. I go back to the scenario of children who have entered primary school and receive resources, whether special needs assistants or additional hours outside the classroom, and the same applies to second level. They and their families are very concerned that that cliff edge will not present itself at third level. This is a policy I want to turn my attention to in the months ahead, and suggestions from people such as the Deputy and other Members will be welcomed.
As the Minister correctly said, students with disabilities now represent a greater proportion of the student population and it is trending in the right direction, but they are still significantly under-represented. While I, like other Deputies, do not expect the Minister to reveal any details of the budget today, I emphasise that a greater level of investment and resources could be placed into this area to get students with disabilities greater access to third level education, which would be most welcome. I ask that due consideration also be given, in the coming months as the Minister prepares for the budget, to the NAP, which is due to be reviewed in 2025. It currently provides about €3 million a year, but I would imagine that could be reviewed. Furthermore, the fund for students with disabilities may also be due a review.
I do not disagree with the Deputy. His county colleague Deputy Stanton raised circumstances for people that may seem simple but can be very challenging, relating to, for instance, access to the most basic of facilities on campuses, including bathrooms, and the tying-up of transport. There will definitely be a requirement for local authorities, some State agencies and other Government actors in this space to help us because, while ours is a policy-led Department, we do not have the wherewithal to do everything, but we certainly have the wherewithal to call out deficiencies that exist and present themselves for people with either intellectual or physical disabilities who are trying to navigate their way through the tertiary education system.
18. Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science the status of the review of disability supports for students at further and higher education centres; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23180/24]
What is the status of the review of disability supports for students in further and higher education centres, and will the Minister make a statement on the matter? Some of this relates to my engagement with the Minister's predecessor, Deputy Harris, not least in respect of personal assistants in further education colleges and trying to rectify the issue with their contracts.
The Department is carrying out an information-gathering exercise that will facilitate the signposting of courses and associated supports for people with disabilities as they move from second to tertiary level, and this is part of a broader scheme of work planned by the Department, which will also include a diagnostic review of the tertiary offering for people with disabilities as part of work linked to the national disability strategy.
The terms of reference of the review of personal assistant services that are funded from the fund for students with disabilities across tertiary education settings are being finalised.
Separately, SOLAS commissioned an independent evaluation of the specialist training provision, which offers tailored education and training opportunities for learners with disabilities requiring more intensive support. This evaluation is to arrive at evidence-based conclusions and propose recommendations regarding the quality, effectiveness, ongoing relevance and overall value of the training delivered. It will also examine the integration of this training within the broader further education and training provided by ETBs. The evaluation is expected by the end of June, following which SOLAS and my Department will review its findings in consultation with the training providers.
The national access plan to higher education and the further education strategy recognise and commit to tackling the under-representation of students with disabilities. Additional investment was secured in budget 2024 for the fund for students with disabilities and universal design, as well as the specific investment announced to support learners with an intellectual disability. I am committed to prioritising supports in this area going forward.
This is absolutely vital work that needs to be done. We constantly talk about how we have to move beyond reasonable accommodations and in the context of universal design, facilitate all sorts of people. It is fair to say that major work has been done in new pathways and route maps for people as regards education. I visited the Advanced Manufacturing Training Centre of Excellence yesterday with Deirdre Hargey, the North's economy Minister. A number of memorandums of understanding, MOUs, were signed with Southern Regional College and Queen's University. A large amount of cross-Border work is being done in this regard.
I have dealt with the issue of to personal assistants over a long period. The previous Minister realised that work needs to be done in the context of sustainability. I would like to think that the new Minister will continue along those lines.
Before the Deputy entered the Chamber, I referred to the movement from second level to tertiary level, particularly for those who are in receipt of personal assistance hours. In many cases, they move from primary to secondary with school special needs assistants or other forms of assistance and then there is a cliff edge. There is no doubt that this cliff edge is extremely daunting. It comes down to how we navigate that and how the third level institutions, many of which are autonomous, provide services with support from my Department.
In the context of all the questions raised this morning, it is interesting that the underlying theme, which is quite refreshing to be honest, is the genuine concern Deputies of all parties and none have about access for people with disabilities to the third level sector. There is quite a deal of collaboration that can be done in this space. I look forward to working with Deputy Ó Murchú and others on this matter.
I also visited Dundalk Institute of Technology, DkIT, recently, which offers a particular course relating to skills for independent living. DkIT has particular issues with regard to SUSI. I hope this will be looked at as we carry out reviews. I am very glad the Minister spoke about the cliff edge that exists, particularly when kids hit the age of 18. With regard to services across the board, there is a significant body of work that needs to be done.
I referred to personal assistants in further education colleges. I have spoken to people who work in the same field in DkIT. In that context, we need to look at contracts, how we do things and how we can make sure that we can facilitate people to be all they can be. I put it to the Minister that the previous Minister, and current Taoiseach, Deputy Harris, was going to have a meeting with the personal assistants as a follow-up. I hope he will be willing to follow through on that.
I have no problem at all in doing so. In the context of the discussion on personal assistants, we are in the same place now as our predecessors were 20 years ago in their discussions about special needs assistants in the primary sector. It is a natural and good progression. It is a good progression because many of the people we are talking about have come through extremely challenging situations in order to get to the place they are in. We will have to put a pathway in place over a period to see how we can make sure that the supports are appropriate, that personal assistants are properly trained, qualified and well looked after and that the educational and personal needs of learners can be met in collaboration with the education system. This is a relatively new space for us, but I do not think there is any lack of ambition in the Department to get stuck into this.
19. Deputy Seán Canney asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science when a decision will be made on the selection of the two locations for the new veterinary schools it is proposed to establish; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23174/24]
A proposal to establish two new veterinary colleges has been put forward. When will the two preferred locations be announced in order that those involved can get on with establishing these veterinary colleges, which will be very important for rural Ireland and those involved in agriculture?
As the Deputy will be aware, the Higher Education Authority recently ran a process to identify options to expand higher education provision in a number of priority skills areas, including veterinary medicine. Proposals were put forward by a range of higher education institutions under this process. The options identified have the potential to significantly increase the numbers of students who would be able to take up places and to become vets in the future.
It is important to say that a substantial capital investment would be required to support the development of any new veterinary school. Consideration is ongoing as to how these capital costs could be met, and I am working closely with my colleague, the relevant line Minister, Deputy McConalogue, on this. At the point when we have established the available level of funding, I will ask the HEA to re-engage with the higher education sector on the potential options and we will progress to a process considering a range of factors including alignment with skills need, deliverability, regional considerations and value for money.
My Department does not place a quota on the number of places on veterinary medicine courses offered by higher education institutions. Ministerial approval is not required for an institution to establish a new school if it is in the position to do so itself.
I am continuing to work with the Ministers for Agriculture, Food and the Marine and Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform on progressing this matter.
I wish the Minister well in his new position. This is the first time I have had the chance to do so publicly. I accept that the process is ongoing. I know that the Minister and his colleague, the Minister for agriculture, will look at the financial supports and how they will be brought together. The Minister mentioned that the decision on where these veterinary schools will be located is important from a regional perspective. I hope due consideration will be given to the Mountbellew-Atlantic Technological University, ATU, application on the basis it will serve the north and west region which is a region in decline. We need to provide all of the infrastructure we can in order to try to being it up to being a region that is actually developing. I am making the case, blatantly, that we need to ensure one of these colleges is located in the west of Ireland in order that it might serve the north and the west. I hope that, ultimately, we will be in a position to celebrate in this regard. However, it is important that funding is provided and that the decision is made as quickly as possible in order to allow the colleges to put these programmes in place in order that people do not have to emigrate to Poland and other places in order to pursue their course.
I thank the Deputy for his warm wishes. The decision relating to this matter will be based on a number of key indicators I have already outlined with regard to the provision of additional spaces. I know that the Deputy has a particular interest in one location is his area. He is to be commended for raising this in the Dail. The decision will be made in a collaboration between ourselves, the HEA, the Department with responsibility for agriculture and others to make sure the criteria set out about regional balance, value for money, the speed at which it can be delivered and how quickly we can get to meet the requirements that have been laid out not just by vets themselves but by farmers.
Deputy Canney represents a farming community, as do I. Many farmers will tell you that there is a need to provide a little help in terms of getting additional numbers into the area. That is a good thing. It proves that much of what we hear in this place about farming being a dying industry is not the correct - far from it.
It is farmers engaging with vets who are, in many cases, showing that there is a requirement for this to be expanded. It is something our Department will take very seriously. I take on board the affirmation the Deputy made for the County Galway site.
I thank the Minister. I take solace from the fact he spoke about regional development. It is important we are all singing off the same hymn sheet. It is also important for colleges to have a decision as soon as possible. Many pieces of the jigsaw need to be put together, but I believe the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine is on board. I look forward to an announcement at the earliest possible date.
I do not have anything more to add. We are taking this issue very seriously. I hope to be in a position to make an announcement with regard to this as soon as possible. However, there is a caveat having had regard to all of the indicators I set out, which the Deputy will appreciate as a former Minister.
