Cuirim fáilte roimh uachtarán Chomhairle Oilimpeach na hÉireann agus roimh a chomhghleacaithe atá anseo. Tá foireann láidir anseo. Tabharfaidh mé déis anois don uachtarán labhairt linn. Ina dhiaidh sin beidh deis ag comhaltaí an choiste ceisteanna a gcur nó díospóireacht ghairid a dhéanamh. I welcome the president of the Olympic Council of Ireland, Mr. Pat Hickey, and his colleagues, Mr. William O'Brien, Mr. Dermot Sherlock, Mr. Stephen Martin, Mr. Dermot Henihan, Mr. Tom Rafter and Mr. Jack McGouran. Members have read the presentation of the council. I suggest that the president give us a synopsis of it, which will leave more time for questions and answers.
Post-Beijing Review: Discussion with Olympic Council of Ireland.
It is important that the presentation be read into the record. Its content is important.
It is a matter for members, but I am anxious not to waste time, as there will be votes in the House later. However, if that is what members wish, that is what we will do.
Mr. Pat Hickey
We would like to do as the Sports Council of Ireland did and read our presentation into the record.
We are dealing today with the Olympic Council of Ireland.
Mr. Pat Hickey
It is up to the Chairman. We want to be co-operative. Whatever members require we are happy with.
I will act as Chairman. I represent the members and we will do as they wish.
Mr. Pat Hickey
On behalf of the Olympic Council of Ireland, an independent organisation which represents the interests of the 34 Olympic sports on the island of Ireland, we thank the joint committee for inviting us to discuss our Beijing Olympic Games experience.
The entire Olympic Council of Ireland is made up of volunteers, people who have served in the various national federations and are then elected to the council. Most of us have taken time off work to be here today. I am joined by the OCI chief executive, Mr. Stephen Martin, who hails from Holywood, County Down. The committee may be aware that he has won more than 100 caps for Ireland in hockey and gold and bronze medals at the Los Angeles and Seoul Olympic Games. He served as deputy chief executive and deputy chef de mission of the British Olympic teams at the Sydney, Salt Lake and Athens Olympic Games. He also served on the board of the UK Sports Institute from its inception. Most importantly, he was head of the British Olympic Association’s high performance unit and behind the business plan for Team GB’s multi-medal winning Olympic programmes.
I am also accompanied by Mr. Dermot Henihan, the chef de mission of the Irish team in Beijing. He was manager of 11 Irish rowing world championship teams and deputy chef de mission at the Athens Olympic Games. He is vastly experienced in team management and motivation, having been central to Ireland’s many medal winning successes in international rowing in the past 15 years or so. Also with me are: Mr. William O’Brien, the OCI’s first vice president; Mr. Dermot Sherlock, secretary general; Mr. Jack McGouran, press officer and media attaché; and Mr. Tom Rafter, assistant chef de mission in Beijing.
We in the OCI are proud of our Beijing Olympians and their performances for the country. They did their very best in a very competitive Olympic Games in which 204 countries participated. The team came home with three medals and in 61st place. Each athlete achieved the rare and much sought after distinction of becoming an Irish Olympian. It was the OCI's privilege to work with the team in the past four years and help make the games one of the highlights of their and our sporting lives.
Both Beijing reviews acknowledge the huge input and success of the Olympic Council of Ireland's headquarters management team in the Olympic village, headed by the chef de mission, Mr. Dermot Henihan. The team which was only four strong also comprised deputy chef de mission, Mr. Tom Rafter; the sports director, Mr. Martin Burke, and Mr. Stephen Martin as operations director. It did a marvellous job in the four-year build-up to the games in Beijing, developing excellent relations with the Beijing Organising Committee in China, the national federations and many other agencies such as the Irish Embassy in Beijing. In addition, the Irish Sports Council was kept fully briefed on all plans and preparations for the games.
As I said, it was a privilege for the OCI to work with the national sports federations in the four-year run-up to the games. The OCI's support programmes during this four-year period included a five-tier team management programme, several science and medical workshops, athlete and team conferences, and the preparation of regular publications and communications on policy matters. Within the OCI's operational plan, we facilitated media briefings at home and abroad to ensure Ireland's planning for the games was open and transparent. A new initiative saw the development of the television series "The Olympians" in co-operation with RTE.
In Beijing our headquarters team was fully supported by the OCI's medical team headed by the chief medical officer, Dr. Sean Gaine, from the Mater Hospital in Dublin. Dr. Gaine, working at his second Olympic Games, was in charge of four doctors, seven physiotherapists, one exercise physiologist and one sports psychologist. These experts worked with the athletes in the Olympic village and at the various sports venues. The equestrian team which was based in Hong Kong had its own specialist support team of a vet and grooms, while several other sports received extra accreditations from the OCI for further specialist support personnel. Each sporting discipline had a manager appointed by its national federation and a range of coaches, many of whom were the personal coaches of specific athletes. For the athletics team of 16, there were six specialist coaches. Rowing had two, sailing had three and boxing had two. The many requests by individual sports for performance accreditations were fully met by the OCI in Beijing. Rotational accreditations to the various competition and training venues and the Olympic village were made available for the first time as a direct result of extensive lobbying by the OCI. This increased the team's performance support personnel by 70% over that available at the Athens Olympic Games. All these measures created a positive performance environment in Beijing and excellent team morale. We have introduced measures to build on this for the London Olympic Games in 2012.
I turn to some other observations. We were disappointed but not surprised by the condescending attitude the chief executive of the Irish Sports Council showed towards the OCI and the Genesis review at the recent joint committee hearing. To be perfectly frank, it is embarrassing to witness the limited progress the Irish Sports Council has made in the past 14 years in developing systems and structures to support our national federations. Performance planning has been fiscal led rather than performance driven and the overall Beijing performance, despite the boxing medals, was just not good enough, given the €34 million public investment in the Irish Sports Council's high performance programme in the Beijing Olympiad period. The Genesis review confirmed there was undoubtedly a clear lack of performance leadership, knowledge and ambition in the ISC's high performance unit. It is disappointing to note that we are at the bottom of seven comparator nations in Olympic performance. The question has to be asked: is the Irish Sports Council's high performance unit up to the job?
The Irish Sports Council is a quango which is prepared to bask in the glory of Ireland's brilliant rugby Grand Slam, even though its contribution was minimal. It is essentially a conduit for taxpayers' money. At the same time, it is not short of trying to subsume Ireland's Olympic national federations and even the OCI itself, as it tried to do — unsuccessfully — in 1996. The Irish Sports Council clearly believes in and uses cheque book politics and has no respect for the autonomy of the federations. It also extends its mantra to include, "Let us embed our nominees in your organisation if you want your grant. You must use our publicity machine. We know what is best for your sport. Let us subsume you." All this is done in the guise of protecting the public purse. No wonder the Olympic sports scene is filled with tension when the Irish Sports Council is mentioned. Its job is to enable sports organisations to do their job, not to take them over.
Rather than develop proper and harmonious relationships, the ISC wants to own the Olympic federations and the athletes. When federations oppose its interference, it withdraws legitimate public funding, as happened in the Athletics Ireland fiasco. To date, this has cost Athletics Ireland and the ISC's coffers more than €100,000 in legal fees. It has split the association in two and led to staff leaving and staff being out on sick leave. Crucially, it is having a negative impact on the athletes' preparations for world and Olympic competitions, especially London 2012.
Let me interrupt Mr. Hickey for a moment. I know he has not mentioned names, but I just want to remind him and members of the deputation that they do not have privilege here, as I am sure they know. I do not know about other members, but I would like to hear a little more about the Olympic Council of Ireland.
Mr. Pat Hickey
We are fully aware——
I am not going to enter into a discussion; I am just making a statement.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I thank the Chairman. We are fully aware, since our first appearance under our previous chairman, of the disadvantage ordinary citizens are at compared with the Deputies in the room. They have the full protection of Dáil privilege which the citizens present do not have. We asked the Chairman at the time to investigate whether privilege should be given to all citizens who appear before committees, but I note that, to date, nothing has happened.
Do not get me wrong. It is not just the case at this committee but at all committees. It would be a matter for the House to change this, not for us.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I thank the Chairman and will take his advice.
Mr. Hickey does not have to take my advice; I am not advising him but just making a statement.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I am being respectful.
The reason there are two Beijing reports is well documented. The OCI's input to previous Irish Sports Council reviews was not taken into account. It is as simple as that. We did not want to be part of another whitewash review that looked to camouflage the Irish Sports Council's lack of progress on the issue of high performance since the first review in 2000. Instead, the OCI commissioned an independent review that would provide for Ireland's Olympic challenge in the future, based on the Beijing experience. We wanted an honest, no-holds-barred review of real value, not just a PR job. We believe we got that from Genesis, an independent organisation which has worked with the Irish Sports Council, as well as the IRFU and the FAI. Its review highlights the fact that the Irish Sports Council, while influencing an increased budget for sport, has clearly not produced a proper business plan for high performance sport or a successful high performance system in the past 14 years.
The Genesis review represents a wake-up call for both the Irish Sports Council and the Olympic Council of Ireland to work together in a trusted partnership for the national sporting good. That is our express wish. It is sport's wish, it is the public's wish and expectation, and I expect it is also the joint committee's wish, but is it the Irish Sports Council's wish? A hard question must be asked. What is the Irish Sports Council afraid of? We know its door is open, but when we have tried to get through it, we have been unsuccessful. The most famous athlete in Ireland, Sonia O'Sullivan, has been elected to our committee, but to date the ISC has not used her in any fashion for the improvement of athletes for the London 2012 Olympic Games. The OCI also continues to be excluded from high performance planning for London 2012, even though we have extensive experience in the implementation of world class systems.
On another important matter, we are well into the 2012 Olympic four-year cycle and yet we have not received any indication of our 2009 grant from the Irish Sports Council. I remind the joint committee that this grant is essential for the development of Olympic sport and a successful London 2012. The Irish Sports Council needs to understand the OCI is mandated by the International Olympic Committee to properly prepare the Irish Olympic challenge and, to do that most effectively for the national good, it must have a four-year partnership role in the Olympic team's performance planning and pre-games preparation. We have extensive and proven knowledge of the high performance systems required to achieve Olympic Games success on a regular basis but to do this, we need to be involved totally in producing the business plan and to help in establishing a high performance system that works. The Irish public, the taxpayer and the sports fan expect more medals and better consistency from the investment in future Olympic Games. Time is running out for the London games. For example, in athletics, a high performance director has yet to be appointed.
On a more positive note, the OCI congratulates the Irish boxing team and the Irish Amateur Boxing Association for the great performances in Beijing, the best since Barcelona in 1992 when we won gold and silver medals with Michael Carruth and Wayne McCullough. The Barcelona medals were, interestingly enough, won before the Irish Sports Council quango was formed. Our Beijing boxers continued a great Olympic tradition and the Irish Amateur Boxing Association has great hopes for the future of this sport and so do we. It is a great pity that the superb exploits of our Beijing boxing team were somewhat spoiled by a media sideshow involving their former high performance director. I will not waste the joint committee's time talking about this non-issue and will leave it to the questions and answers session.
Since Beijing, we have been working very closely with our national federations to exploit the many opportunities we initiate and support, specifically through our Olympic solidarity programmes. Our support for sports attending the 2009 European Youth Olympics, 2010 World Youth Olympics, 2010 winter games and London 2012 summer games is expanding in terms of knowledge, input and resources. Our athlete planning courses, our professional development programmes for senior administrators and performance staff and our talent identification models for 2016 are all under way. One of the additional services over the next three years will be an annual Olympic multi-sport warm weather camp which will provide excellent training, cross-fertilisation of knowledge and excellent team building opportunities for our London hopefuls.
I remind the joint committee that the Olympic Council of Ireland is made up of unpaid, elected volunteers. As it is aware, the volunteers keep Irish sport operating in all spheres. We represent a major and diverse group of Olympic sports. We work closely with the Olympic Athletes Commission and the Irish Olympians Association headed by Ronnie Delaney. The Olympic Council of Ireland's finances are fully open to public view, as we are a limited company, governed by the Companies Act. Despite any misunderstandings, our finances are not top secret. I apologise if I led Deputy White astray on the last occasion. I was referring to sponsorship and divulging the amounts from each sponsor. Our accounts are available in the Companies Office and are open to the public to inspect at any time. Our income comes from a range of sources, including from the International Olympic Committee, from sponsors and from the Government via an Irish Sports Council grant. Our income and expenditure is fully reported in the audited accounts shown in our annual report.
We have already established excellent relationships with London games organising committee staff and our operational plan for London will be expanded to deliver more for our team, their families, coaches, federations and the Irish public. We call on the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism to form a special London 2012 Olympic performance task force. Its objective should be to transfer performance funding and service budgets to the Irish Institute of Sport and the Olympic Council of Ireland to utilise the experience and talent within both organisations. By working together, we can establish system and performance outcomes, of which we can be proud.
We, in the Olympic movement, are up for this change. We are ready to begin to work immediately with all stakeholders to maximise our prospects in London 2012 and 2016. Urgent action is required. Go raibh mile maith agat.
I thank Mr. Hickey. I suppose I speak for everybody when I say we are a bit gobsmacked by that presentation. In a way, I welcome Mr. Hickey's honesty because, as he rightly said, the Irish Sports Council appeared before the joint committee and we were left no wiser as to the perceived tensions that gave rise to us inviting in the Olympic Council of Ireland. Mr. Hickey will agree the tensions were not only obvious in Ireland but probably around the world.
We hear stories of waste, overlap of functions and the difficulty for the athletes who do not know who their master is and are afraid to tell the Irish Sports Council they have spoken to the OCI and vice versa. It seems not to be about the athletes, but about the blazers.
Mr. Hickey has given us his honest assessment of the situation. The fact there were separate reviews again reflected the tensions. Having read the reviews, one would think they were reporting on different events.
Mr. Hickey made a valid point about the autonomy of the sports federations. We have all had contact with the various sports federations and not only the athletics one. It is heartbreaking to see what is going. Mr. Hickey also made a point on the waste of taxpayers' money and so on.
Mr. Hickey said it was great so many people qualified and that they are all Olympians. However, the truth is — I believe he said this himself — that with the kind of tension between the OCI and the Irish Sports Council, we are not getting the optimal outcome from the athletes. Most of them did not achieve their personal bests. For whatever reason, we did not get the best outcome.
When I look across the table at the depth of experience and expertise and Mr. Hickey's considerable reputation internationally, I regret we are not getting the value which could be given to Irish sport because of the tensions. How can we fix this? We have invited the OCI and the Irish Sports Council to the joint committee but to where do we go from here? I do not want to apportion blame but what can we do to fix this?
The Irish Sports Institute was to deal with this but I do not know what its manifestation is now. It is under the remit of the Irish Sports Council. Does Mr. Hickey see any hope in that organisation or does he believe that because of the OCI's difficulties with the Irish Sports Council, that will not work? Is there any way heads can be banged together or is there any way forward which will stop this? Is it already too late for 2012?
I thank Mr. Hickey and his colleagues for the presentation. To say I am surprised is an understatement. I expected to hear about the Olympic Council of Ireland but I heard a great deal about the Irish Sports Council, which appeared before the committee two or three weeks ago. We listened carefully to what the Irish Sports Council had to say. A broadside was launched on the Irish Sports Council but I guess nobody is without blame in this game.
I am interested in sport on behalf of the Labour Party and the people I represent. It is time to sort out whatever internal wrangles and rows are going on. They are doing huge damage to sport and are not serving any purpose. We are going around in circles. Public money is being wasted all over the place. I appreciate from where some of the delegation's funding comes, but some of it comes from the public purse. What effort is the delegation making and what has it done to develop a sense of unity and going forward together in respect of sports in Ireland? The delegation represents the Olympic Council of Ireland. How does the delegation see its responsibility in forming some unity and cohesion in respect of the sporting organisations and the responsibilities they have to Irish sport?
I too thank Mr. Hickey for his very frank and forthright presentation. In the report there is a section referring to performance against targets. What is the effectiveness of setting targets for athletes or sports people in general? The report states that most sports either under-performed or merely met very modest targets. How does one get the balance right between putting an athlete under pressure or setting a target for him or her? Obviously, the first target is to qualify and to take part in the Olympic Games. Will the delegation elaborate?
What is the delegation's view on the possibility of having golf and rugby included in the 2016 Olympic Games? I heard some comments on the matter this morning. Is there a realistic chance that either of these sports will be included?
I thank Mr. Hickey and his colleagues for the full and frank presentation. We could also describe it as giving the Irish Sports Council both barrels. As Deputy Upton remarked, the Irish Sports Council appeared before the committee some weeks ago and we heard its views.
This presentation is an attack on the Irish Sports Council. The solution to the problem would seem to be to solve the relationship between OCI, Olympic Council of Ireland, and the sports council. I had intended asking why there was a need for two reviews. However, the delegation answered that in its presentation. Allowing for the fact that there was duplication and two reviews, I will put some questions.
I understand the sports council in its review asked the OCI to co-operate with it and that the OCI did not do so. I also understand that when the OCI conducted its review, it did not ask the sports council to co-operate. Is this correct? Have all relationships and has all contact with the sports council broken down absolutely? It was mentioned in advance of the OCI review that it had carried out surveys of athletes during the Olympic Games in Beijing. There seems to be no report or evidence of that in the final report. There may be a perfectly legitimate reason for that. Effectively, the OCI has today called on the Minister to disband the sports council and to move funding to the OCI and the Irish Institute of Sport. That was my interpretation and the delegation may correct me if I am wrong. Is that what the delegation is calling for? Is there any way the relationship with the sports council can be repaired?
I have a good deal of experience in sport and I agree with the delegation and the sports council in a sense. There may be some common ground in that athletes go through four years of preparation overseen by the governing bodies of their sports and their own backroom team, including coaches, physiotherapists and so on. When they arrive at the Olympic Games village the OCI provides the back-up there and therein lies the conflict. Is there a better way of using resources such that there could be a continuous stream in the four-year cycle from the start of the preparation, through qualification, to the performance at the end? Athletes, especially high performance athletes, find it difficult when the people around them change when they are up against the moment of truth, as in this case. Is there some way this can be addressed? Can the relationship be improved at that level too? I have several other questions but that is all for the moment.
I was amazed at the report. I respect these gentlemen because they work in a voluntary capacity and they are highly professional people. It is no wonder we did so badly considering the team spirit within the camp was not good. Let us call a spade a spade; we did not do well. If such tensions and divisions exist between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council then it is no wonder we did not do well. The only people that did well were our boxers and I am pleased to take this opportunity to say so. In my county there are people very much involved in boxing who believe they do not get the necessary support or back-up at local or national level, because it is not a glamour sport such as rugby. These people do not exhibit in Croke Park as GAA players do, nor do they go to Lansdowne Road like soccer players. Boxing does not receive the credit and support it should.
The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Cullen, was in Beijing representing the Government. He has a role in sports and is providing a good deal of funding. I call on him to meet with his officials and both organisations, because this row has continued for far too long. It must be sorted out and we must bring these bodies together to work it out. We are spending thousands of euro on sport and we are not getting value. With such continuing tension and rows it was no wonder our team spirit was not right at the Olympic Games. We must sort it out quickly. I do not know how it can be sorted out but the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism has a role in this matter. The committee should make a proposal to the effect that the Minister should meet his officials and these groups once and for all to establish whether we can resolve this dispute which has persisted for many years. This must be done immediately.
My next question is simple. This is the second Olympic Games in which there have been problems with our show jumpers. I am not afraid to put the question. Certain people received a good deal of money from the sports council and received financial support to go to the Olympic Games. They disgraced us again, this time in respect of our horses and animals. Did these people not know the ingredients they put on horses were not allowed? If they were allowed, why was the OCI not stronger in condemning them? They let down the country and they let down sport.
I thank Deputy Ring and I call on the president of the OCI or any members of the delegation to respond.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I will start with Deputy Mitchell. I am sorry if she was gobsmacked but we have to call it as it is.
That is quite all right.
(Interruptions).
That is not necessary.
We will not mention names as the Chairman suggested to Mr. Hickey earlier.
There will be no mileage on 5 June on Deputy Kennedy's side and there will be a big review after that.
I will get an extra pair of shoes for Deputy Mitchell.
We will leave that for another day.
Mr. Pat Hickey
We analysed the documents of the sports council when they appeared before the committee. It was a blatant attack on the OCI. Many untruths were told in those documents and we had to answer those questions. The different reviews were forced upon us. We were involved in the sports council review but it was the paymaster and when one pays for a review one gets the answer one seeks. We became the whipping boys and we said, "No more of that. We will get our own independent review.", which we did.
I refer to the autonomy of the federations and what is occurring in Athletics Ireland, but not only Athletics Ireland. It should not be forgotten that this all started when the Irish Sports Council became a statutory body in 1996 and tried to subsume the Olympic Council of Ireland in a bitter battle that year but we were strong enough to stand up to it. We are an elected body and we are required to hold an annual general meeting every year and an elected AGM every four years. The Irish Sports Council has no accountability to anyone. It does not stand up in front of any organisation. When we ask it the hard exam questions, we are threatened that our grant aid for the following year will be affected. This is bully-boy tactics which we will not tolerate.
When I ran for re-election in the famous year of 2000, they marshalled all their forces and convened a meeting of 12 sports in a midlands town — we have witnesses and signed documents. The 12 national sports federations were told that if they voted for me in this election their grants would be devastated the following year. This is the type of intimidation and bully-boy tactics that has been going on. They do not try this with the GAA, the IRFU or the FAI. We have shown them that we are not going to tolerate it either. However, the poorer sports — I mean those with fewer participants — such as boxing, archery, weight-lifting and judo, are afraid to open their mouths in case they will be penalised the following year.
As regards the personal bests not being achieved, I will pass over later to our chief executive officer who is a technical man and who will reply. Deputy Mitchell's colleagues asked the same questions as to where we are, what can be done and how we can go forward. With regard to Deputy Ring's point, we had a meeting with the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism two or three months ago. The Minister had very wisely decided to interview each individual federation rather than rely on what he was being told by the Irish Sports Council. We encouraged him to do that exercise.
On a point of information, did the Minister meet the people himself?
Mr. Pat Hickey
He met them himself along with two of his officials. To my knowledge they had meetings with every single Olympic sports federation and they also had a meeting with the Olympic Council of Ireland. He gave everyone a very fair hearing and he asked what could be done to solve this problem. I said that the Minister would have to bring the Irish Sports Council and the Olympic Council of Ireland together and knock heads together.
Hear, hear.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I advised him that he must stop the Irish Sports Council from excluding us, the Olympic Council of Ireland, from its programmes over the four-year period. We used to have a member on the sports council, Mr. Dermot Sherlock, and he was kicked off the council in 1967 because he was asking hard exam questions.
That date should be 1997.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I apologise, I mean 1997.
Nobody from our council was ever appointed to the Irish Sports Council since that time. The way forward is to have a member of the Olympic Council of Ireland on the sports council. This works very well in Great Britain where my equivalent, the president of the British Olympic Committee, is the vice president of the British Sports Council. This means there is a continual rapport between the two bodies and things work out. There is a policy to exclude us from absolutely everything.
The Chairman referred to the institute as did some of his colleagues. We are all in favour of the institute. It has had a terrible birth and a terrible beginning. Mr. Seán Kelly, the former president of the GAA, was a fantastic man in that position in the institute. He did a superb job when he was there but the politics got too much for him, although he is now embarking on another political role.
You will know about that in a few years' time too.
Mr. Pat Hickey
It is said that sometimes the politics of sport can be worse than the politics of politics. He left the institute and it went downhill. We are not suggesting that the money should be taken from the Irish Sports Council and given to the institute and the Olympic Council of Ireland. We accept that the Irish Sports Council is the controlling body, the statutory body and we must pay it respect as it is a fact of life. However, the council should share and give up this control freak mechanism and bring everybody on board.
To reply to Deputy Upton, I thank her for using the term "broadside", but we were just telling the truth and we have to spell things out as they are. Her question was about the intervention of the Minister. I think I have answered that question. She asked about the participation of the Irish Sports Council, etc. I think I covered that ground.
Regarding Deputy Brady's question, I will ask the chief executive officer to talk about performance targets. As regards the participation of golf and rugby in the 2016 Olympic Games, that interview was recorded about five weeks ago so it was pure fluke that it was broadcast this morning. Five sports are hoping to join the Olympic programme, rugby sevens, golf, squash, karate and roller-skating. Baseball and softball were knocked off the programme and are hoping to get back on. That vote takes place in October of this year in Copenhagen. From the Irish point of view, we fully support the inclusion of rugby sevens and golf because of the current great success of Irish rugby and with Irish golf players such as Pádraig Harrington Ireland would have Olympic sports in which we could send the best athletes. I will be fully supporting that proposal at the meeting in Copenhagen.
Deputy O'Mahony used another great term, "both barrels". We had to answer the criticisms made about us by the Irish Sports Council and we just answered its queries. We want the answer to solve this problem and we think that the Minister's intervention forced it to make us part of the full cycle. When this eruption happened in 1996, we were that body and they resented us operating alongside the statutory body. Deputy O'Mahony asked a very good question about the preparation of the team over the period and then the handing over to another group of people in the village. It does not happen like that. We work with the sports in the whole four-year cycle.
I will ask our chief executive officer to explain the three technical questions to which I have referred, including the question from Deputy O'Mahony on the four-year preparation cycle.
Mr. Stephen Martin
We are underachieving with regard to targets. We did well in Beijing but we can do better. As stated in the Genesis review, other comparative nations are winning medals in at least four sports and probably six medals on average whereas we have won three. We think we can do better. Outside of boxing there were a number of commendable performances in canoeing where we came fourth, in race-walking where we finished in seventh and eighth positions but only three other athletes had personal bests out of a team of 54 athletes. We think we can do better but it is a case of a change in the processes.
We are not involved in setting the targets which are set by the sports or the Irish Sports Councils. The Olympic Council of Ireland would like to be much more involved in the process over the four-year period in terms of performance planning and this is one of the key messages coming through from the Genesis report.
In answer to how the system can be moved forward, there is an expertise within the Institute of Sport which has a skills set and a performance manager and a couple of staff who are leading it. We have experience within the Olympic Council of Ireland of systems and planning and we would like to work together to set targets, to set the processes and to develop a system which we can be proud of over the next four to eight years covering the next couple of Olympiads.
Mr. Pat Hickey
Deputy Ring asked questions about the team spirit. I assure Deputy Ring that despite the row between ourselves and the Irish Sports Council, that does not impact upon the team spirit. There was great camaraderie among the group of athletes and officials who travelled to the Olympic Games in Beijing and the row does not filter down to the athletes. I agree with the Deputy's remarks about boxing. I would remind the committee that before there was an Irish Sports Council, in 1992 we had to beg sponsors to get a bursary for Wayne McCullough and Michael Carruth. Our spend was less than £100,000 and not £34 million and we achieved a gold medal and a silver medal. Boxing will always win medals. It is our highest medal-winning sport. It has a superb organisation which works with very little facilities throughout the country. They have a great spirit and a great leadership and they will always do well.
Deputy Ring said we did not speak out enough on showjumping. I went apoplectic on the radio.
He did.
Mr. Pat Hickey
We were the fools of the world to be caught a second time. The members have no idea what international federations and organisations think of Irish equestrian sport. We are all in favour of equestrian sport. It is indigenous to the country and we must cultivate and support it. However, it is down a very slippery slope and before we even contemplate sending an equestrian team to London we will watch what this new body has come up with in the past two months. The members might have seen in the media that a very ominous situation arose yesterday where the International Equestrian Federation suspects endemic doping in the German equestrian industry and Olympic team. Their medals were taken back from them, like the Irish medals. We are at the same level as them. Yesterday the International Equestrian Federation established a special ethics commission. A veterinarian in Germany has become a whistleblower. This has ramifications for Irish equestrian sport because we are in the same league as them; our medals were taken back. There will be further investigation but I assure this committee that before we enter any team in London 2012 we will want cast-iron guarantees that we will not be fools for the third time.
I have a brief point on the question I put on the reviews and lack of co-operation. The witnesses said there were many untruths in the Irish Sports Council's presentation. Could the witnesses be more specific on that?
Mr. Stephen Martin
After an Olympic Games has finished it is always difficult to get athletes to respond to reviews. Some come back very disappointed, others with good experiences. The response from the athletes was full and frank from our perspective and we will take on board their views in our planning and preparation for London 2012.
I understood the surveys were to be collected during the games. Is that correct?
Mr. Dermot Henihan
Every team member, at the end of his or her competition was given a PIN number to access this private questionnaire. Not all decided to fill it in. We requested through their managers and themselves that they fill it in. As usual with questionnaires one never gets 100% response. We got 28 responses but these crossed all the sports. We also had meetings with people from all the sports as a debrief after the games. We were able to pick up all the information.
Was the information from the questionnaire included in the review?
Mr. Dermot Henihan
Not word for word, but the import of it is.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I could go through all the untruths but I will give two of the main ones. The Irish Sports Council alleges that we conspired to get it bad publicity when the boxers went to qualify in Chicago in October in the year before the games and that we had a publicity campaign to decry the Irish Sports Council. I will give the facts about what happened in Chicago. The Irish Amateur Boxing Association selected 11 athletes to try to qualify because, obviously, the more we send to qualify, the more chance there is. The Sports Council said the federation could send only three, and a row started between the Amateur Boxing Association and the Sports Council. We intervened on the side of the Irish Amateur Boxing Association and told it to send anybody it felt would qualify. It is brutally hard to qualify for the Olympic Games. It is like getting an Olympic medal in itself. The one boxer the Sports Council did not want to send to Chicago was Paddy Barnes, and we forced it through. If Paddy Barnes had not gone to Chicago he would never have been at the Beijing Olympics and won a bronze medal.
At the meeting before this committee, Mr. Gary Keegan stated that at all periods during the four-year term he shared all knowledge and information with the Olympic Council of Ireland regarding the Sports Council's programmes and funding, and so on. He never shared a single word with us. I can go through another eight instances.
I would like to get the other eight at some stage if I could.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I will send them to Deputy O'Mahony in writing.
Perhaps they can be sent to the committee Chairman so we can all access them.
I welcome Mr. Hickey and his committee. My deep concern is what example this ongoing row between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council is setting to young, prospective Olympians. To be an Olympian one has to give four to eight years to reach one's full potential. I am deeply concerned about whether people will be willing to do that given the accusations being made on all sides. I am not privy to whether they are right or wrong. I always thought peace would be restored on the island after the Good Friday Agreement but this is not leading to peace.
The three major sports in Ireland, hurling, football and, to a degree, rugby, take the most athletes, in addition to soccer from a professional perspective. The athletes who set their mind to be Olympians are few on the ground. I am honest enough to say the results over the years have been good from the perspective of our sports history. I am from Athy and I see the work and dedication in St. Michael's boxing club and the efforts Mr. Dom O'Rourke puts in to ensure boxing gets its rightful place.
Given the cost factor and comparing Beijing to London — our next door neighbour — this is probably our best opportunity to send our strongest team to the Olympics in London. The example being set by the Irish Sports Council and the Olympic Council of Ireland is detrimental to that. We can benefit from preparatory camps that will be a central focus for these Olympics. Are Mr. Hickey and his committee willing to talk? I cannot ask the others. There are only three years left, and that is a very short span for Olympians. Will they initiate a meeting with the Sports Council and the Minister on it? We have to begin. There must be a basic meeting to set the whole thing in progress. Is the entire Irish Sports Council involved, or is this a personality clash between Mr. Hickey and Mr. John Treacy? Is there any breaking this ground? What will happen in the next three or four months? Those are the most important for divining a path to break down this quarrel. Perhaps the delegates might answer those questions. We must set an example because the wonderful opportunity of having the Olympic Games in this area may not come again for another 30 years. This is the one opportunity we have to build a team but we must be able to see where we are going. I have a deep concern about the final outcome.
I thank the gentlemen for attending. I have some pertinent questions for Mr. Hickey. His comments today were explosive and seem to concern a power struggle between two groups of people. Today should be about the future and what is best for our Olympians, for Irish sport and for London in 2012. In the interest of sport in Ireland, is it time for Mr. Hickey, the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Sports Council of Ireland to disband so that we might have one reformed group? Mr. Hickey spoke about issues in respect of performance. Have many of the athletes qualified late for the Games? Why is that the case?
I put this third question to the Olympic Council of Ireland at the last committee meeting. Whom do we believe? We have heard what the Genesis report had to say and from the Olympic Council of Ireland. I agree with Deputy Ring that it is time the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, independently of both groups, commissioned a report on what is best for Irish sport before and after the Olympic Games.
Is there a confusion of roles between Mr. Hickey and the Irish Sports Council? I accept there are difficulties in respect of high performance and Mr. Martin made reference to that. We must have an honest to God reappraisal of both groups.
I welcome Mr. Hickey and his colleagues. I have always believed that volunteerism is a dying art in Ireland, right across the board, in sports and community activities, and I always admire people who give up their time. I have a great deal of respect for the people before the committee today, because of the time and effort they give. They made the point that many of them are present today because they took time off work.
Mr. Hickey's report was frank. I met recently with representatives from Athletics Ireland. Like many observers, I felt the difficulties between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council might have been personality driven or otherwise. However, having listened to the people from Athletics Ireland, I must raise questions about personalities within the Irish Sports Council. It is ridiculous to have the CEO of that body now effectively under threat in his job.
Given the financial constraints the country is in, particularly in respect of sport, it is ridiculous that €100,000 has been spent so far on legal fees on the AI side. One suspects that if that is the case for the AI, it applies equally to the ISC side. That is €200,000 that might have been channelled for the benefit of sports people, especially with the advent of the London games in 2012. In his statement, Mr. Hickey called on the Minister to act, as Deputy Ring noted. This is the way forward. The Minister must get some form of joint task force in place so that we can give our best performance in London. As Deputy Wall noted, London is on our doorstep and we will never again have the opportunity to compete in the same time zone with the same temperature, in a place that is a mere 40 minutes away on an aeroplane. That is an opportunity we should not miss. If this committee is able to make any recommendation, it should be to exhort the Minister to bring both sides together for the betterment of all sports.
When the Irish Sports Council spoke to the committee, I raised a question about Sonia O'Sullivan, knowing that she has become a member of the Olympic Council of Ireland. In my view, Sonia O'Sullivan is the most successful athlete Ireland has ever produced, with no disrespect to Ronnie Delaney or Eamonn Coghlan who were great ambassadors and won their medals, etc. However, on a consistent basis and over a long period, Sonia O'Sullivan has accumulated vast experience and in the modern era of athletics, it would be ridiculous in the extreme for any organisation not to utilise her knowledge and skill. I throw the same question today to the Olympic Council of Ireland. What can we do as a body to ensure that our athletes can benefit from the knowledge and experience Sonia O'Sullivan can offer them?
I agree with Mr. Hickey about the additional sports we hope will come through for the 2016 Olympic Games. Rugby and golf are two sports in which we can hold our own in any sphere on the world stage. Ultimately, the Olympic Games are all about medals. We may have our criticisms concerning the Olympic Council of Ireland or the Irish Sports Council or the issue of high performance, but one is judged on medals. "How many medals did you win?" is the question asked. Regrettably, society judges everybody on success. If one does not come home with medals, one has failed. I am certain that everybody in the room acknowledges that.
I believe we have come a long way but I might use a phrase used by my party in a bygone election: "A lot done, more to do." That applies to every one of us with regard to support. We must do everything we can to ensure that, across the broad range of sports, our athletes will get the best opportunity to achieve their ambition of competing in the Games. If they qualify, they must be given every opportunity to get a medal and exceed their personal best.
The committee must make a recommendation to the Minister to meet both sides and agree a joint platform. It is probably not realistic at this stage to wind up with one body. The best we can do in the short term is to get both bodies working to a common aim for the good of sport in Ireland.
I have the graveyard slot and many of the questions I had have been answered but none the less I wish to put them on the record. We have two organisations and two reviews of the Olympic Games and the poisonous atmosphere between the two major organisations must be resolved. I feel a bit like a scolding parent here but we must get results and have better co-ordination between both bodies. I was going to suggest arbitration or counselling but a ministerial intervention is the proper course.
Sport is such a wonderful thing for all of us to be involved in. As somebody who played sport to a very high level in this country, I know from playing for my province and on the Irish team at university level that if one does not have good managers, coaches and support, one simply does not perform well. One has an off day, a bad day at the office, and one does not play well. It is so important to make everything right every four years for these marvellous games. We must get back the true spirit of the Olympic Games which occurs when we are all working together for the best in sport and for the good of our country and our athletes. The taxpayer is losing out here and so are the athletes and that greatly saddens me.
When the Irish Sports Council was before the committee an issue was alluded to, namely, that some athletes were overwhelmed by the Olympic experience and being there and, as a result, did not perform well. I would like to have the delegates' view on that and whether they believe that is the case. I had intended to have some good positive questions but our time has been taken up with the relationship between the Olympic Council of Ireland and the Irish Sports Council. Are there plans for teams from other countries to come to Ireland to train before the next Olympic Games? As Deputy Kennedy said, the fact that it is quite close to London makes this country a handy option for competing countries that are looking for good training facilities.
The members of this joint committee are neutral observers. The members of the delegation are involved in sport. All of us have great pride in our country and in our athletes. It does not matter whether we watch people play for an under-12 team on a Saturday morning, or for a county or national team. Sport is a great leveller. How much did the Genesis report cost the Olympic Council of Ireland to produce?
I would like to ask Mr. Hickey the same question that I started with. It is my primary question. What does Mr. Hickey see as his role in resolving this dispute? How can it be done? Issues are very seldom black and white. It is not often that one person is absolutely right and the other person is absolutely wrong. In the interests of sport, we need to find some middle ground and move things forward from there. I am not defending the Irish Sports Council. I asked its representatives plenty of questions, some of them critical, at a meeting of this committee last month. I think Mr. Hickey said that the Irish Sports Council is answerable to nobody, but that is not true. It is answerable to the Minister, to the Members of the Oireachtas through this committee and to the taxpayer. The Irish Sports Council has to be accountable.
Reference has been made to media sideshows. I fear that we are generating another sideshow. We have to get away from the sideshow aspect of it. If this dispute is to be resolved, we have to get down to the nitty-gritty. Mr. Hickey kindly answered my question about the amount of money that was spent on the Genesis report. The final cost, €6,231.51, was quite modest. I thank Mr. Hickey for that information. He emphasised that the report was paid for from the Olympic Council of Ireland's own resources, rather than from moneys provided from Government funds. Perhaps he can explain how the council's various funding arrangements are separated. What tranche of funding goes where? For what specific purpose is the Government funding used? How is it decided that a specific sum of money from a particular source will be spent in any given area?
I will conclude by reiterating my support for the inclusion of women's boxing in the programme of the Olympic Games. If it were included, Ireland would be ably represented by Katie Taylor. It would be nice to think that women's boxing might become an Olympic sport. I am sure the delegation will agree that Ms Taylor is a brilliant sportsperson and representative of this country. I thank the Chairman for his indulgence.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I understand what Deputy Wall said about young athletes. I assure him that they are not affected by this dispute. The European Youth Olympic Festival will take place in Tampere, Finland, in July of this year. A team of 50 or 60 of our most talented athletes between the ages of 14 and 17 will represent Ireland at the festival. The European Youth Olympic Festival can be seen as a precursor to the real Olympic Games. The young people will not be affected by any of the ongoing matters under discussion. When they travel to Finland, they will have the unique distinction of being accompanied by Sonia O'Sullivan. They will not be affected by this dispute.
I agree that Ireland's Olympic results were fair or medium in the past. They were better than average last year. When one considers that €34 million is being spent over four years, however, they are not as good as they should be. Ireland was wiped off the slate by Croatia, for example, which has a population of 2 million. Croatia won five medals in the Beijing games, to add to the three medals it won in the 2006 winter games. Many countries have come from behind the so-called Iron Curtain and passed us out quickly. As we said earlier, it is a question of whether the money is being spent in the right direction.
I agree with Deputy Wall's comments about the 2012 Olympic Games, which will be held in London. Over the next year, everybody will realise that this is the nearest thing Ireland will ever have to a home games. Ireland will never host the Olympic Games. I appreciate that there is a bad economic situation in Europe and throughout the world. At the end of next year, the realisation that the 2012 games will be special will start to kick in. They will be very special for Ireland. I am proud to say that we have negotiated a special concession with regard to the torch relay, which generally goes around the world. The members of the committee will recall that before the Beijing games, there were problems with the relay in Paris and London. The International Olympic Committee has decided that from now on, the torch relay will remain in the country in which the games are being held. Under the special concession negotiated by Ireland, and thanks to the wonderful peace process we now have on the island of Ireland, the torch will go to Belfast in 2012. I remind the committee that the OCI is the Olympic committee for all Thirty-two Counties on the island of Ireland. Our remit is not confined to the Twenty-six Counties. We are proud that, on average, 20% of the Irish athletes and officials at each Olympic Games are from the North of Ireland. The Olympic torch relay will move from Belfast to Dublin. I do not yet know where else it will go in the Republic. This is a great step forward.
I assure the committee that there is no personality clash between John Treacy and me. Both of us sit on the board of the National Sports Campus Development Authority, which is based in Abbotstown. When I had a cup of coffee with Mr. Treacy two mornings ago, he did not ask me about this matter. He does not speak about it. It became clear in 1996 that the Irish Sports Council was not big enough to take on self-sufficient bodies like the GAA, the FAI and the IRFU. The council then decided to take on the Olympic sports, which are represented by the five rings and are associated with the Sport for All programme. Its desire to control the Olympic Council of Ireland is an eternal problem for the Irish Sports Council. The OCI is a democratically elected body.
Senator Buttimer asked whether the two organisations could be disbanded and a new body created. The members of the OCI are elected. Like the Members of the Oireachtas, we have to face our electorate every four years. If other people stand for election, we are liable to be thrown out. It is a question of getting enough votes to remain in office. Sonia O'Sullivan came on board because she dearly wants to be involved in the London games. She lives in London and in Ireland. When I asked her what she wants to do at the London games, she said she wants to be involved in athlete identification and funding. She said that grant moneys were being distributed by the Irish Sports Council in a way that should not happen. When we suggested that she should be given a role on the committee that determines who gets funding, we were blanked and told we could not be involved. The Irish Sports Council said "It is our money, we give it out". It is not the council's money. The council is the conduit for taxpayers' money. Like every other organisation in the country, we are entitled to as much as possible of taxpayers' money.
I will respond to the rest of Senator Buttimer's questions. He said that some athletes were late in qualifying for last year's Olympic Games. We strongly believe that when athletes are late in qualifying for the Olympic Games, they are finished. That effort has been their Olympic Games. They are off then on their laethanta saoire. Every time we have tried to bring the date forward, we have met significant resistance from the national federations. They want to get as many athletes to the games as possible. In fairness to the Irish Sports Council, it strongly supported us when we tried to move the date backwards. We will have to be very draconian on this issue when the London games come around. It is difficult to know whether to believe the Genesis report or the Beijing report. If the committee wants to meet those who compiled the Genesis report at any stage, they will be happy to come in.
Everyone asked about the Minister. After the Irish Sports Council announced that it intended to undertake a Beijing review, but before we did our review, we suggested to the Minister that he should undertake a review, under the aegis of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, rather than getting the Irish Sports Council to undertake a review. We said we would be happy to co-operate with the Minister's review. I do not think the Irish Sports Council was happy to take that route. It did not happen in that way. In our opinion, that is how it should have happened. The Minister is the ultimate boss of sport in Ireland. We must co-operate with the Ministry. We have excellent relations with the Minister, as we had with his predecessor, the Ceann Comhairle, Deputy O'Donoghue, and want to maintain them.
Deputy Kennedy referred to legal fees connected with the Athletics Ireland issue. The position is crazy. The Olympic Council of Ireland had taken legal opinion on letters received from the Irish Sports Council. We received a letter before Christmas stating that if we continued to write to the Irish Sports Council, our grant aid would be affected in 2009. Having taken legal opinion on the matter, we await the level of our grant aid for this year to ascertain whether we are being punished or penalised. We took legal advice on the issue because the money allocated by the Irish Sports Council belongs to taxpayers rather than the council. This must be remembered at all times. It is crazy for sports bodies to incur legal fees. Before the Athletics Ireland dispute is concluded, the sum spent on legal fees will have doubled.
I answered questions on rugby and golf, on which we have made significant progress.
Deputy White referred to a poisonous atmosphere and that is certainly the case. However, I sit beside John Treacy at matches in Lansdowne Road and we get on well socially. The Irish Sports Council wants to keep us outside the door and does not want us to be involved in planning. For example, the Olympic Council of Ireland does not have an input into the carding system for athletes. Every member of this delegation has been elected by national sports federations. We know athletes and their history and who among them is serious, yet we are not asked our opinion. Grants are awarded without consultation, which is a crazy waste of money.
I will asked Mr. Stephen Martin to answer the question on whether athletes were overwhelmed at the Olympic Games because he is an athlete of gold medal standard.
Mr. Stephen Martin
We spend considerable time with team managers, coaches and athletes explaining that the Olympic Games is a unique environment which is different from world and European championships. We also explain how the games operate. There is no excuse for athletes not being able to deal with the environment at the games. In terms of under-performing, we do not have an evaluation and monitoring role in the four-year period between Olympic Games. We inherit what is available at the games and it is this on which we must comment. We facilitate the entry of athletes to the games, their journey through them and their exit.
We have a couple of key messages we would like to leave with the joint committee. The Olympic Council of Ireland would like to be much more involved in the four-year period between Olympic Games as it would give us an input. Performance, evaluation and monitoring of all programmes in the four-year cycle were criticised in the Wharton report. In the report the Irish Sports Council criticised itself as being fiscal and without a role in performance monitoring. We want to bring systematic performance monitoring to the table.
The current staff of the Irish Institute of Sport want to be independent of the Irish Sports Council in having control of budgets and services. They want to work in this regard with the Olympic Council of Ireland and want more attention to detail, ambition and urgency. The period since the Beijing Olympic Games of August 2008 has been marked by inertia. The issue we are discussing dates back a long time. The London Olympic Games are around the corner. A key message from this meeting is that we would love the Minister to show leadership in this respect, as we have asked him to do, in order that we can utilise the current experience available in the Irish Institute of Sport and the Olympic Council of Ireland to produce better performances and results for the country.
Mr. Dermot Henihan
Only a few of the athletes were overwhelmed at the Beijing Olympic Games. In the build up to the games — from two and a half to three years prior to them — our advice in our discussions with the various sports was to make recommendations on the distances travelled, best time to arrive in the Olympic village prior to competing, etc. None of the athletes who took our advice was overwhelmed. From memory, I believe two athletes arrived late at the Olympic village and, to use a Limerick expression, they did not know their backsides from their elbows. For this reason, they were in wonderment and awe of the whole event. The Olympic Games are huge. The word "gigantism" is associated with them and they can, therefore, get to anyone.
Mr. Pat Hickey
As regards teams coming to train in Ireland prior to the London games in 2012, the position is bleak. We had great expectations for Abbotstown which was scheduled to be on stream by 2011. The idea behind it is fantastic and we had dearly hoped that, on the back of the London Olympic Games, we would have a permanent, state-of-the-art sports facility in Ireland for future athletes. As a result of the general funding problem at a national, European and global level, however, the project has been placed on hold.
We hope some teams will use the 50 m swimming pool in Abbotstown and good facilities are also available in Limerick. Teams will not come to Ireland to train, however, unless facilities are top class. Countries send athletes to the Olympic Games to win medals and will not allow them to train in inferior facilities. In addition, we have a big handicap in that regional cities in the United Kingdom are offering national teams of other countries training facilities and offering to pay them €25,000 to €50,000, depending on the size of the city, to come and work in it. That is what we are up against. While some athletes will come here, it will be difficult.
As Deputy Upton noted, the Genesis report cost in excess of €6,200. When we receive our grant from the Irish Sports Council, it is allocated under different headings, all of which are itemised to the last cent in terms of how and where the money is spent. The council will not pay over the moneys until we account for this expenditure. Given that our funding is from State coffers, as is proper and correct, we are subject to control by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General and passed this control in flying colours. All the moneys allocated by the Irish Sports Council are given under headings and may only be spent for the specific purposes for which they have been designated. The cost of approximately €6,200 spent on the Genesis report was met from sponsorship and our own funding.
Deputy Upton asked a question about the possibility of including women's boxing in the programme for the Olympic Games. This will be more difficult to achieve for women's boxing than for rugby sevens or golf because decisions on these two sports are taken by a vote of the congress with 117 members present. All of these sports have lobbies which interact, resulting in deals being done and so forth. However, women's boxing is considered a discipline within an existing sport in the programme. For this reason, the executive board of the International Olympic Committee will make the decision on whether women's boxing is to be included in the programme. The board will make its decision in August.
Women's boxing faces another difficulty in that the discipline has only three world championships, whereas it must have the same number of world championships as men's boxing, namely, 11. In addition, the men's discipline will have to reduce the number of boxers by approximately 40 to accommodate the number of women boxers. The boxing federations worldwide will be slow to do this because the lighter weights provide the only chance——
That is very sexist.
Mr. Pat Hickey
I fully agree. Katie Taylor is one of the most wonderful athletes in Ireland. She is a great ambassador for and representative of the country. Not only is she a world champion boxer, people forget she is also a soccer international, playing striker for Ireland. She is an unbelievable athlete. I have travelled with her on occasions when she represented Ireland and seen her speak at events throughout the world. She is the greatest representative of this country one could meet. I would love to see her competing for a gold medal in London.
As a mover and shaker in Olympic circles, could Mr. Hickey not lead the charge to have women's boxing included in the Olympic programme? The current position is sexist and discriminates against women. Surely, if Ms Taylor is a wonderful sportsperson and ambassador for the country, the Olympic Council of Ireland should lead the charge on her behalf and on behalf of others like her across the world.
Mr. Pat Hickey
While I accept the Senator's view, given the nature of the voting arrangements, with 117 individuals having a vote, I am not in a position to do much more. I am not a member of the executive board, although I am running for a position in October.
I would not bet against Mr. Hickey.
Mr. Pat Hickey
If we can help in that regard, we will do so. The problem is that the current members of the executive board are not pro-boxing. I am working with them. The most important group in this regard is the International Boxing Federation because it is the group that can deliver this. The president, Mr. C.K. Wu, is from Taiwan. He is doing a great job. We hope it works out.
Does Mr. Hickey consider it is time we had an across-the-board review of the Olympic Games in terms of where the Olympic movement is going, given that it has moved from its origins as a competition for amateurs to becoming professional in many ways? We should consider whether it has become too big or uncontrollable. Perhaps we need to examine the concept of the Olympic movement.
Mr. Pat Hickey
Senator Buttimer is asking great questions at the right time. There is an Olympic congress in Copenhagen in October, which is held every ten years, to examine the Olympic movement and where it is going. The Senator can check out olympiccongress.org on the Internet. One can make submissions to it and see what is going on. People throughout the world have been invited to make a contribution. There will be a solid week of meetings to determine the future of the Olympic movement, taking into account the advice from people worldwide to ensure the biggest spectacle in the world, which it is today, takes place every four years.
Ar an gcéad dul síos, ba mhaith liom chomhghairdeas a dhéanamh le gach éinne a fhreastal ar na Olympics i Beijing, go háirithe leo siúd a thug boinn abhaile leo. Caithfimíd a bheith iontach bródúil as na daoine sin.
It would be remiss of me if I were not to say I was somewhat taken aback by the tone of the initial contribution. I have just looked through it and there are ostensible references to another body. I am sure other bodies will take the opportunity to respond. We must be as objective as we can. With the approval of committee members I will send the proceedings of this meeting and the one that was attended by the Irish Sports Council to the Minister. I will bring the suggestions made to his attention also.
Will the Minister come back to us with his findings from the independent federations?
I will take the opportunity to ask whether that would be possible in the letter we will send. I will seek to meet with the Minister also because much time has been spent today that could perhaps be spent more productively if those issues did not arise. In my communications with the Minister I will refer to the submissions and recommendations of the members. Arís, gabhaim buíochas le gach éinne a tháinig anseo inniu as ucht an tuairisc a chuireadh os ár gcomhair, agus as ucht na ceisteanna a fhreagairt.
The joint committee adjourned at 4.15 p.m. sine die.