Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 23 Jan 2018

Meeting Ireland’s Targets under the 2020 Climate and Energy Package: Discussion

Chairman

I wish to draw witnesses' attention to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Any submission or opening statement witnesses have made to the committee will be published on the committee's website after the meeting. Members are reminded of a long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses, or any official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members and witnesses to turn off their mobile phones or put them onto flight mode as they interfere with the sound system and make coverage difficult.

We are dealing with meeting Ireland’s targets under the 2020 climate and energy package. I welcome all the witnesses. I propose that the main speakers speak for five minutes each. I will give them a little notice after four minutes so they will know they have one minute left. I will be quite strict on the time as another committee is scheduled to use this room after us. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Representatives of the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment are in attendance to answer any policy questions that may arise. If any of the witnesses are sharing time I ask them to indicate that to me and I can include that within the five-minute slot available.

We start with Mr. Paul Kenny, chief executive officer of Tipperary Energy Agency, who has five minutes.

Mr. Paul Kenny

I thank the committee for the opportunity to present to it. I will focus primarily on retrofitting homes. To remind members, our 2050 climate change targets are essentially that we achieve 80% to 95% less in carbon emissions. In light of the situation in agriculture and aviation, we will need to decarbonise our homes. The context of my presentation will be the question of how to do that. It is important to point out that we are far off trajectory and that we will not get back on it unless we make a significant change in what we do.

A deep retrofit means that a home will no longer use carbon fuels, will be energy efficient and - given that homes can be retrofitted poorly, leading to mould, damp and so on - healthy to live in. In collaboration with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, the national energy agency, the ESB and others, we established a programme that we originally titled the nearly zero energy building retrofit. Our communications officer decided that was not catchy, so we called it SuperHomes. Its aim is the 2050 home. Approximately 75 homes have been retrofitted to date with support from the SEAI. Under it, the average home is heated for €200 to €300 and is healthy inside. People who have spent €15,000 or €20,000 under the programme are telling us that, even if they save nothing, it is the best money they have ever spent. A retrofitted home is lovely, warm, comfortable and healthy. It is important for people to understand that this is what we need to do to every home. Small amounts of attic or wall insulation are insufficient to get us to where we need to be. Consumer acceptance of that is high.

We set up and trained an independent, expert-led renovation contractor panel. We are using heat pumps. We have a research arm, with three Limerick Institute of Technology researchers working full-time on improving SuperHomes. The European Investment Bank, EIB, has given us a substantial amount of money to scale us upwards. As such, this is not a small project. It has global aims. From the EU has emerged the idea of a one-stop-shop, where homeowners can access information, grants, finance and so on.

It is a question of how to get to where we need to be and ensure that everyone understands. Slide No. 3 of my presentation shows the carbon intensity of heating a home using gas, oil and heat pumps today and in 2035 based on EirGrid's analysis of where our grid will be. Using oil, solid peat, coal or gas to heat homes while also trying to meet our climate targets is not an option.

To make this happen, we need to consider finance and the levers that we can use. For example, we can use grants, which we have in place, and taxation in the form of carbon taxes. These taxes are not particularly popular, but we need to understand that, if we do not price carbon, we will not remove it from society. The third lever of low-cost finance is an important one. If someone can pay to upgrade a home for €60 or €100 per month after the energy savings, it will be easy to convince people to move from a D energy rating to an A rating because of the comfort benefit. That is the point we need to reach if we are to get finance into the market, including low-cost finance from the banks. The EIB has a great deal of money to put into this space. We need to have market demand so that financiers will supply the right products and services. To do that, we need a stable policy framework, carbon pricing and a long-term plan. Low-cost finance will get this to happen.

Last week's discussion focused somewhat on solar energy. The average Irish home uses 4,000 units of electricity, to which solar could contribute, and 18,000 units of heat. We need to focus on the latter because Ireland has done little in that regard as opposed to electricity, in which regard we have done much. I would be supportive of solar, but it must be approached in line with the decarbonisation of homes. A building's energy transition entails getting rid of its fossil fuel boiler rather than just putting up a bit of window dressing in the form of solar panels on a roof. Solar is still necessary, but it is only a part of the solution. That solution involves heat pumps, electric cars and solar.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Kenny. I invite Mr. Teahon, a board member of the National Offshore Wind Energy Association of Ireland, NOW Ireland, to contribute.

Mr. Paddy Teahon

I will ask my colleague to make a brief intervention in the course of my contribution.

Chairman

Does Mr. Teahon want me to indicate when he is half way through?

Mr. Paddy Teahon

No. The intervention will pop up when I reach a certain point.

Chairman

I will give Mr. Teahon a four-minute indication.

Mr. Paddy Teahon

I thank the Chair.

Our starting point is that Ireland's offshore wind energy is a major natural resource and one of the best in the world. Regrettably, it is also one that we have not yet utilised to any significant extent. It must be emphasised to committee members and others that the development of offshore wind as a resource would achieve a number of aims: reduce or avoid fines by contributing to the reduction of our emissions; increase security of energy supply; and, particularly important in light of the potential adverse effects of Brexit, create a significantly expanded indigenous industrial sector across Ireland, not just in the Dublin area like much of the industrial and service development that has occurred to date. It would also provide activity, jobs and exports.

Four companies have been active for some time in developing offshore wind projects in the Irish Sea and advancing the necessary work. I will invite Mr. Connell to discuss the example provided by Oriel Windfarm Limited.

Mr. Garrett Connell

The Oriel project is a good example of the progress that has been made in offshore wind development in Ireland. It was established in 2005 to develop a wind farm off the north-east coast. We have made significant progress in planning and permitting since that date. We received a grid connection offer from EirGrid under the Commission for Regulation of Utilities' gate 3 connection programme. When we reach full development, we will have a capacity of up to 330 MW. With the efficiencies that are available from the strength of the wind offshore, that should allow us to generate up to 1.2 TWh per year of electricity, which is equivalent to approximately 300,000 homes' annual demand. It would enable us to reduce our carbon emissions by 600,000 tonnes per year, which is significant.

The Oriel programme is the right size to kick-start the offshore sector in Ireland and, since it is well progressed through the planning and grid connection processes, is ready to go. We involved a strategic partner group last October, a Belgian specialist in offshore wind development. The specialist is positive that, with the finalisation of permit and tariff schemes, it will take two years from the finalisation date for the wind farm to become fully operational.

Chairman

With that, we will move on to the witness from SSE Ireland.

Mr. Paddy Teahon

I am sorry, but-----

Chairman

Mr. Teahon wished to speak again. I apologise. I was wondering why we were way ahead of time.

Mr. Paddy Teahon

In addition to Oriel, the other companies are the Dublin Array, Codling Wind Park and, our friends who will be speaking in a while, SSE in Arklow. These companies could deliver 2.5 GW of power, and it is not always recognised that they could do this in the near term, that being, within the 2021 timeframe. However, a number of requirements would have to be met first, which is the crunch point of the message we would like to leave with the committee. A critical requirement is for a Government policy statement to the effect that offshore wind will be developed intensively now, to be conveyed to those Departments and agencies that would implement the actions flowing from it. There are seven such bodies, so the committee should realise that this is not a simple issue. It is critical that Departments be able to act on the policy statement.

There are two immediate actions. The renewable energy support system, RESS, should have a technology specific auction for offshore wind now and it should operate within a target of 75% for renewable electricity in 2020.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Teahon for his opening statement. I will give everybody another opportunity to comment later. I now invite Mr. Wheeler to make his opening statement.

Mr. Stephen Wheeler

I am pleased to have the opportunity to address the committee on the opportunity presented by offshore wind energy to meet Ireland's 2020 renewable targets. My company, SSE, is the largest renewable generator in Ireland, with over 700 MW of onshore wind under operation, including Ireland's largest wind farm, the 169 MW Galway wind farm. It is also a leading developer and operator of offshore wind energy. All told, we are involved in over 8,000 MW of offshore wind projects in the UK and Ireland, 900 MW of which is already generating, providing energy to customers and contributing to the achievement of the UK's targets. Closer to home in Irish waters we co-developed Ireland's first and only operational offshore wind farm in 2004, namely, the seven turbine, 25 MW Arklow Bank Phase 1. This was delivered at the time as a demonstrator project to prove the opportunity that offshore energy could represent for Ireland but almost 15 years later this opportunity has not been seized.

In Ireland, we have one of the strongest wind resources in the world yet we are the only country in northern Europe not currently developing offshore capacity. SSE believes that offshore wind can play a key role in bridging the gap to Ireland's 2020 targets and beyond. Onshore technologies have served us extremely well to date but we must be realistic that social acceptance of onshore energy developments is challenging and greater grid and planning constraints are now in place. What has been successful for us in the past does not guarantee future success. If we are to make up ground on 2020 and beyond - and we believe we can - then we need to fast-forward the build-out of large-scale renewable energy capacity. Offshore wind energy can deliver large volumes of renewable electricity in the short term and also set us on the right trajectory for more ambitious 2030 targets.

SSE is actively progressing plans to fully develop its Arklow Bank Wind Park project. This would represent an investment of over €1 billion and deliver a minimum of 520 MW of capacity. Most importantly, this project can be delivered in a timescale, from construction through to commercial operation that would qualify towards Ireland's 2020 targets, offsetting or potentially eliminating any fines. The Arklow Bank project and other Irish Sea projects are an efficient and realistic way to take the big strides we need to hit our targets. Looking beyond 2020, we are very excited that new floating foundation technology will allow Ireland to harness the resources off southern and western coasts and thereby stimulate very significant regional development. However, we can only do this as a sector if the right market conditions are in place. These conditions include, having a support scheme that supports offshore wind, an effective connection policy and efficient management of the consenting process. As the committee is aware, the Department has consulted recently on the design of a new renewable electricity support scheme. In our response, SSE called for the inclusion of offshore wind as a separate category in the first of the new support scheme auctions.

The technology-neutral approach proposed will not give offshore wind projects investment clarity in the timeframe required or enable a local supply chain to develop. We fear that it will result in an over-reliance on onshore technology and, as I mentioned, we have doubts that a sufficient quantity of this technology can be delivered in the timeframe required. A technology-neutral approach fails to capture the diversification benefits of offshore wind. These benefits include typical load factors of in excess of 40%, which is considerably higher than most other renewable electricity sources; delivery of consistent and predictable power to our national grid, providing significant system demand benefits; only connection is required to bring big power to where it is needed, which is simpler than developing lots of small decentralised projects; potential scale and strategic location of offshore wind can meet the future energy demands of clean-tech multinationals, particularly, large-scale load from data centres, the majority of which are located on the east coast; economic investment benefits in coastal regions and consequent employment opportunities and, upskilling for more ambitious 2030 targets and demand growth as heat and transport decarbonise through electrification.

From a cost perspective, following several years of innovation and de-risking, offshore wind is now a scalable, proven and maturing technology which offers considerable benefits to consumers and society. Costs continue to fall and I believe Ireland should be part of this story. While offshore wind remains more expensive than onshore wind this gap has been narrowing and I believe that support is justified in light of the challenges of developing onshore wind, the climate change backdrop, Ireland's international reputation and impending fines, not to mention expected grid cost efficiencies and reduction in the wholesale cost of energy. As a supplier of energy through our SSE Airtricity brand we are acutely aware of the need to keep costs to a minimum but as a society we also need to decarbonise. While decarbonisation does come at a cost, not doing anything will cost us more and mean missed opportunities for Ireland.

We have a window of opportunity right now to transform the way in which we generate power in Ireland and to do so in a way that reaffirms Ireland’s commitment to its EU targets and accelerates the deployment of new and diverse energy technology. Aside from the climate imperative, we can also avoid unnecessary costs to the Exchequer from failure to meet our targets domestically. In so doing, we can restore our reputation as a leading low carbon economy in Europe and the world, proudly supporting greener energy and attracting inward investment from across the globe to support jobs and our economy as a result.

I ask the committee to support our efforts in this regard.

Chairman

I will now open the discussion to members. If witnesses would like to make a specific point, they can indicate to me throughout the course of the discussion and I will let them in.

Deputy Bríd Smith

I welcome the witnesses. It is a no-brainer that we should be backing these initiatives. I am very interested in the deep retrofitting of homes. The quality of some housing in this country is very poor owing to shoddy building in the past. Houses in many of the old council estates require deep retrofitting and this should be strongly recommended in the committee's report not only because this would help in terms of our climate change targets but because it is sensible in terms of ensuring the long-term healthy lifestyle of our population and it has the added benefit of creating tends of thousands of sustainable jobs. This issue should be a strong feature of our report, as should wind energy, solar energy and so on.

I would like to make an observation. One could not say "No" to anything that has been said here. From a scientific and societal point of view, all that has been said is very sensible. How we do force the Government and successive Governments to take this issue seriously and to ring-fence the financing required to ensure that it happens in a timely way. We are in a race against time. Mr. Wheeler mentioned in his opening statement that almost 15 years on from the construction of the Arklow offshore energy bank an opportunity has not been seized, which is shocking. To continue to do what we are doing is insane. We need to listen to the scientific and technological submissions on all options and we need to have a discussion about how politically we can force this onto the agenda in a way that ensures the Government takes it seriously.

The committee previously looked at a project on the Arran Islands off the west coast. Small scale community projects like this and the St. Fintan's high school project, which involves students trying to solar power their school, matter as much as the big projects. If we are not being listened to at the top, politically, then this has to be driven at grass-roots level, using the examples of schools and communities that are trying to get us to change and working with the companies which are leading the advances in this area.

Deputy Eamon Ryan

I have a question for each of the witnesses who made opening statements. Mr. Kenny is correct that heat is a key issue but we have potential in solar heat to tackle it. I support the work being done by St. Fintan's high school in terms of promoting solar PV because it has the potential to provide one power supply for the heat technology mentioned by Mr. Kenny. Solar has a role on the heat side as well as on the electricity side. Energy efficiency is always the best lowest cost form of decarbonised. We have more than 1 million houses with oil fired central heating systems that we need to switch. We also have many houses that are poorly insulated. In recent years, the EIB has been offering finance to people operating in this space. Why is it that we have not got the financing together?

As impressive as the work is, at this stage 75 houses should be 75,000, with an aim to provide 750,000 in a ten year period, at least it would be if we were ambitious. Is there any sign of finance being made available to package this in a way that would wrap solar, heat pump, electric vehicle and retrofit programmes together? Is there any straw in the wind that a financing package is finally on the horizon?

I agree with Mr. Teahon on the potential for development offshore. If there was separate offshore technology, will he outline how it would be structured? I agree that we should do it. I am conscious that all of the spectacular reductions in costs in recent years have come from the likes of the Danish, Dutch and German bidding systems. We will obviously have to follow them. However, very large international consortia, including Vattenfalls, DONG/Ørsted and so on, have brought forward lower bids. How will smaller Irish operators connect to such developments in a way that will allow us to avail of the cost reductions that have occurred elsewhere? How would the auction be structured?

In respect of our colleagues from SSE, after thinking about what I had said before, I agree with Mr. Teahon in saying we should be aiming for a power renewal figure of 75% by 2030. It is absolutely the level of ambition we should have. EirGrid studies assume the use of a certain amount of biomass in our system which I do not think we will see happen.

In respect of SSE's international expertise, are there certain services the wind energy industry would be able to provide in terms of inertia or frequency voltage stability? Is there any development that would allow us to start clutching these wind turbines in a way that would gives us some of the system services? Have the delegates carried out any research into what the level of renewables could be by 2030 by adjusting the technology, particularly wind energy and other flywheel technologies, to help it to happen? Do the delegates have any expertise in that regard?

Again, I agree that there is potential to use offshore wind energy to benefit this island. However, do the delegates agree that the level of power generated will require us to interconnect with our near neighbours, particularly Britain? Does their company have any perspective that it might be able to share with us on the Brexit negotiations and how we will manage the volume of wind energy produced offshore in terms of interconnection and trading with the United Kingdom? Has any assessment been made of the implications for Ireland in developing large-scale offshore wind energy projects in the Irish Sea and off the west coast? We should do so. However, we will have to sell it to make the process work. What reassurance can be provided that it will survive the Brexit talks?

Chairman

A lot of questions have been asked. If they could be noted, I will bring the delegates in after Deputy Brian Stanley has asked his set of questions.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I thank our guests for their presentations. The issue of offshore wind energy is one in which I am interested. I was looking at the Arklow project about a year ago. It is very interesting. Will Mr. Wheeler tell me how much Government support was available for the project which involved the use of seven turbines in Arklow? Should there be more Government initiatives in developing the offshore sector?

I also want to ask Mr. Wheeler for his views on the issue of planning permission. Many agencies have to be dealt with when multiple consents are needed. Scotland has a simpler more streamlined system involving the use of one agency. Sinn Féin sees wind energy as part of the solution, but we have a concern about its intermittent nature. I know that there are differing views, depending on to whom one talks. At different times we have had different views at this committee also. However, there are two problems. One is that on the nights of the two big freezes five and six years ago there was no wind. The temperature was -16°Celsius in the area in which I live. The other aspect is the potential overheating of the grid because of power surges. How can this be regulated? There is a view in the electricity industry that only so much wind energy can be handled.

The project in Tipperary is interesting. The full cost, as stated in the presentation, is €33,000. I have been raising the issue of deep retrofitting. A lot of homes have some insulation. Unfortunately, there is none in some houses dating from the 1800s and early 1900s which means that an elderly person may be living in a house with no insulation. The heat is flying out through the windows and doors. It is an issue we have to tackle.

The construction industry has left not only a financial hangover but also an energy hangover. Most of what was done was bloody awful. I have talked to people who have climbed into the attic of their rented accommodation which was built in 2006 and 2007 only to discover there is no insulation. Insulation is also missing from some of the walls. It is dreadful stuff. How does Mr. Kenny see the cost being funded? Does he see a role for a green bond type system? In other words, pension funds or the credit unions which have funds of between €8 billion and €11 billion might provide funding for an upfront grants scheme? The funds would be paid back over time with some interest on top. There would be a premium to make it attractive. Not too many people can put their hands in their pocket and pull out €33,000, particularly if they are paying a mortgage, etc.

I recently introduced a Bill on microgeneration which refers specifically to solar energy. Students might be interested in having a look at it. I would be interested in hearing their views on that Sinn Féin Bill. Political support might be generated from other parties to try to get it through the House, something we would also welcome. However, what other renewable resources do the delegates believe could be used? Solar energy has been mentioned, with solar panels on a roof, but I can see them having very little effect in some places. On what can we make the big win fairly quickly? There is no quick fix.

Chairman

I am conscious of the time, but the delegate will have a chance to respond to all of questions asked. I will start with Mr. Kenny from Tipperary Energy Agency and then move to Mr. Teahon.

Mr. Paul Kenny

Before I answer the questions asked, there is one other comment that I missed. In 2017, 37% of homes were built with a renewal heating system. That means that between now and 2050 we will have to retrofit 63% of homes. I urge the committee to prevent the imposition of that huge cost on the Exchequer.

Deputy Bríd Smith

Is that 37% of new builds?

Mr. Paul Kenny

A total of 37% of new builds had heat pumps, while 63% had fossil fuel boilers, which, as we know, are incompatible with meeting our climate change targets. That is an important point to make.

The two questions about financing are very important. We have engaged directly with the banks which have told us that they would be delighted to lend money, as that is their business. However, it cannot be done without scale. We have tried desperately hard to scale up and 33,000 homes is a large turnover in two years. What we need to do is have a strong stable commitment at a policy level. About 500 people have already applied to us and we are trying to deal with them. Obviously, there is a capacity issue in the marketplace. However, a carbon tax is very important to drive people into it because only some will understand the grants scheme and so on.

The other key aspect, looking at green bonds and what other countries have done across Europe, is that the models at we have looked more or less combine public good banks such as KfW in Germany with local parties such as local energy agencies and others like them. We need the two to work together. I strongly encourage the committee to consider a slight rebalancing from capital grants towards capital grants and current expenditure support.

I encourage the committee to consider a slight rebalancing of supports from capital grants to capital grants and current expenditure. We need advisers. Upper Austria has gone from 2% to 50% renewable heat and in a region the size of Munster they have 45 publicly-funded advisers to give advice to homeowners and so on. That is what we do and, thankfully, with the likes of the European Investment Bank, EIB, the Electricity Supply Board, ESB and the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI we have been able to fund some of it. We need a lot more of it because people do not know.

What is the big win in terms of microgen? Solar is very important at one level; of the super-homes, I think about 80% would have solar PV. It is very much part of the solution and will generate roughly 2,000 units of energy for what we usually put on homes. However, it is just a part. The other main microgeneration technology is heat pumps. A heat pump is coupled with a solar panel on the roof. The sun hits the solar panel and powers the heat pump. That provides a huge amount of energy from the sun, essentially. This goes back to Deputy Eamon Ryan's comment that solar should not be overlooked. It is really important that the two go together, with the solar heat from the pump and the solar panel coupled together as part of a retrofit.

Mr. Paddy Teahon

Floating wind turbines are on the way. The technology is developing very rapidly. There is huge potential there for Ireland after the cases we are talking about.

To tackle Deputy Ryan's question, we believe technology-specific auctions for offshore wind would be for a given number of megawatts. Even in our most optimistic moments, we do not believe the first auction would be for 2,500 MW but for a much smaller figure. Therefore there will be significant competition between the four companies. They will be competing for let us say 500 MW. Each witness has identified already that we will have to have partners in the areas the Deputy speaks about. This has transpired already. I will ask Mr. Connell to say what is happening with Oriel Wind Farm but it has happened already. I am involved in the Codling Bank project. We received approaches from ten different people at the level of Vattenfall and similar after the Oriel announcement. I think we can take it that there will be competition and we will see the big operators playing in the Irish Sea, which will contribute to the prices coming down.

Mr. Garrett Connell

On the Oriel example, we brought in Parkwind, which is the leading offshore wind developer in Belgium. It has delivered three projects to date and is currently building the fourth. It is a key example of the type of expertise we will need to bring into the Irish projects that are developing.

Deputy Ryan asked a question on the auction structure. What we really need is a practical solution that can be delivered quickly if offshore is to be part of the mix to meet our 2020 targets or to come in soon afterwards. There are numerous examples across Europe of this type of auction scheme. The UK is a good example. They have technology-specific pots that are allocated and have certain caps by technology and by the amount of support they can provide. They have been very successful in reducing the cost of offshore wind in the UK. It is also worth mentioning that direct negotiation for a tariff has been a common method of bringing offshore wind projects forward in the early days of a new system. This is possible under the state aid scheme as well under certain conditions, such as where there is limited capacity for an auction or limited ability of other projects to compete.

Mr. Dan O'Connor

I am representing Brian Britton on behalf of Oriel. Brian is not well at the moment. I had a different hat on 15 years ago when I worked in General Electric and we supplied the turbines to Arklow. At that time, Ireland was in the lead and those projects were world firsts. It is incredibly sad that, 15 years on, nothing has happened. A number of projects are in really good shape and ready to go. I was involved in bringing in the Parkwind transaction and can confirm that there are many investors who are absolutely willing to get involved. This is not a 2030 issue; these guys are ready to go now. This can be delivered in the early 2020s. We were in the lead 15 years ago but now the rest of Europe has overtaken us. Only very simple things need to be done, particularly for this committee. We need a really strong message from Government that this is part of policy and that offshore in particular can play an important role. It is complicated because there are a number of Departments. Mr. Manly is representing the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment. However, there are other issues in respect of planning, the grid and energy. We need a system that allows them to work together. If we can get that, I can confirm that investors are out there ready and willing to invest. Most of those parties are surprised that Ireland has not taken the lead on this.

Mr. Stephen Wheeler

To address Deputy Eamon Ryan's comments with regard to the auction and the signals, there is something of which we need to be really aware. Currently, there is around 15 GW of offshore wind deployed across Europe. The target is to get that to 100 GW by 2030. In order for Ireland to play its part in the industry and really take advantage of the supply chain benefits that will come from work on that scale and that have already come, we need to send clear signals. As my colleagues in NOW Ireland have indicated, it is incredibly important that a clear policy comes out to support offshore wind so that we can be part of that industry. In respect of jobs creation and inward investment, my company, SSE, has already invested over €2.5 billion in the last ten years. We are one of the investors that want to continue investing but we need clear signals. Once they are given the competition and the big players will come. As Mr. O'Connor has just said, they are already interested in Ireland. We have to show our credentials to really be part of this industry.

Deputy Stanley raised wind intermittency. Members may have seen that over Christmas we reached record levels on the island of Ireland, when over 67% of our energy requirement was delivered through renewable resources. That was for one half-hour period. However, it really does show the fantastic work that companies like EirGrid have done in allowing renewables to penetrate the system and work within it. The Deputy is right that the wind does not always blow. However, it actually blows a lot. To avoid intermittency issues, we need what we already have, namely, VS3 programmes that are already kicking off to support and drive flexibility. As well as wind, we also own and operate thermal stations. Great Ireland has a 460 MW combined cycle gas turbine, CCGT, in Wexford, which is the most efficient in the plant. When the wind is not blowing, it is about ensuring we have the flexibility that the traditional, cleaner plants can actually come on in the time that is required. We are world leaders in how we adopt renewables and bring them onto our system without causing significant issues. EirGrid should be given a lot of credit for that.

The Deputy asked about our seven turbines at the Arklow bank. That was done with GE back in the day. It is disappointing that we are sitting here today and still have not seen that grow. It could potentially be delivered well within the 2020 timelines but we need the decisions now. There is no point in 2018 or 2019 saying we are going to have an offshore option. We will not hit the 2020 timelines if that is the case. It is really important that we see action now as distinct from a couple of years down the road. As I said in my presentation, we have had huge success in delivering onshore wind to date - nearly 4 GW of onshore wind on the island of Ireland. We should be incredibly proud of that. I have been in this business for over 15 years. I have been on the ground and have seen the challenges and complexities, whether they be social acceptance, grid, or planning challenges. It is becoming more and more difficult. The future is not about one technology but many complementary technologies in onshore wind, solar and offshore wind. The big advantage of offshore wind is the scale. This can be deployed at scale by big international and local partners over a very short period. That is something we now need to be a part of.

Deputy Eamon Ryan asked about Brexit implications with regard to interconnection. To keep the interconnectors up and going is incredibly important.

The east-west interconnector has proven it is already a really important part of infrastructure. We also need to be clear that it is one thing to talk about exporting but first and foremost we need to look at our domestic demand requirement and as targets grow beyond 2020 out to 2030 we are talking potentially 30% to 35%. We will have a job in its own right to deliver against those targets locally before we even get to thinking about exporting. The reality right now is that we are off our target for 2020. We need to accelerate the delivery to 2020 to hit that target and then go beyond that. Brexit will play out and at this stage I do not know what the outcome of it will be. Most important, there is an opportunity here to deliver on our domestic targets and we need to make sure that all the technologies are supported to do so.

Mr. Garrett Connell

I want to reiterate the speed with which offshore wind projects can be delivered. There may be a perception out there that offshore wind is something that could be delivered in the late 2020s but offshore wind has the advantage of scale and location. Large-scale projects can be connected to existing grid infrastructure very quickly and these projects are well progressed through the planning process so they can be delivered in time to help meet our 2020 targets.

Ms Marian Troy

I wish to address the question on the consent process. From a developer's point of view efficiency is always sought after but we recognise that the process needs to be robust, defensible and have public involvement in the planning process as well. The projects that we are involved in are in a process already. We know the Departments are looking at a maritime and foreshore Bill for offshore infrastructure, which is very positive, but an ask that we have is that in the meantime the projects in the system are not stalled because for all the points we have made we need them to deliver soon to meet our targets.

Chairman

On behalf of the committee I thank all the witnesses for coming here today. It was a very worthwhile engagement. All the submissions we have received will be published on our website. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.15 p.m. until 5 p.m. on Tuesday, 30 January 2018.