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JOINT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SCIENCE díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 11 Mar 2003

Vol. 1 No. 7

National Youth Work Advisory Committee: Presentation.

I welcome the delegation. Before we begin, it should be noted that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before it. Members should be aware of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that we do not comment on, criticise or make charges against persons outside the House, or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I understand that we are to hear four brief presentations. I call on Mr. P. J. Breen, principal officer at the Department of Education and Science.

I am pleased the committee has afforded me the opportunity to inform it of the progress since the Youth Work Act 2001 was enacted on 1 December 2001.

Section 1 of the Youth Work Act 2001 allows for the sections of the Act to be commenced at different times. It was never the intention nor would it have been possible to commence the Act all at once because of the preparatory work and discussions required. To date, sections 2 to 7, 17, 18 and 24 have been commenced by the Minister for Education and Science. Sections 2 to 6 are mainly of a functional nature. However, section 7 provides for the Youth Work Act 2001 to replace the Youth Work Act 1997, the latter being on the basis of the creation of education boards.

The commencement of section 17 of the Youth Work Act 2001 is a most significant step forward in the roll-out of the various sections of the Act. This section provides for the appointment of a National Youth Work Advisory Committee, which was appointed on 22 April 2002. It consists of statutory representatives such as from Government Departments and the IVEA chief executive officers' association. Equal representation comes from the National Youth Council of Ireland which is, under section 24, the prescribed national voluntary youth work organisation.

This committee has a special role to play in youth matters in that it advises and consults with the Minister of State with responsibility for youth affairs on issues relating to youth work. Section 17 provides for advice to be furnished by the NYWAC to the Minister on a wide range of issues relating to youth work. Not only is the NYWAC meeting on a monthly basis but it has also established a number of sub-committees to assist it on various aspects of youth work. In particular, it established an implementation sub-committee to deal with the following: (a) criteria to be fulfilled for a voluntary youth work organisation to be designated as a designated local youth work organisation, (b) guidelines and regulations in relation to voluntary youth councils and (c) criteria for a youth work organisation to be approved as an approved national voluntary youth work organisation. The proposals from the NYWAC committee in relation to (a) and (b) have been approved by the Minister of State with responsibility for youth affairs. The work of the NYWAC in relation to (c) is very well advanced. Work is also proceeding in relation to the criteria for the designation of local voluntary youth work organisations as referred to in section 29 of the legislation. These are issues upon which agreement must be forthcoming in order to allow for smooth implementation of the relevant sections of the Youth Work Act 2001. Significant progress has been achieved on these topics.

A further NYWAC sub-committee produced a code of good practice, Child Protection in the Youth Sector. This code was accepted and launched by the Minister of State with responsibility for youth affairs in September 2002. Furthermore, another NYWAC sub-committee has produced a paper on North-South validation on youth work training for discussion at the NYWAC. The NYWAC has also, following an extensive consultative process, prepared a National Youth Work Development Plan 2003-07 which has been approved in principle by the Minister of State. This plan will provide a blueprint for the development of youth work in Ireland over the next five years. Reference to this plan is made in the new social partnership agreement, 2003-05, Sustaining Progress. Chapter 2, page 30, 2.8, states that "Building on the Youth Work Act 2001, the national youth work development plan will be progressed and implemented on a phased basis, as resources are made available." It is intended to seek Government approval for the publication of this plan in the near future.

The membership of the NYWAC is unique. It provides for equal representation of statutory and voluntary youth work interests, with an independent chairperson. The membership is comprehensive in order to provide for representation from all the major players involved directly or indirectly with the provision of youth work programmes and services.

I have mentioned that one half of the membership of the NYWAC on the voluntary side comes from the prescribed national representative youth work organisation. The Minister of State has decided that the National Youth Council of Ireland shall be that prescribed organisation under section 24 of the Youth Work Act 2001. This situation is also unique in that the NYCI is so named in section 24 of that Act. It is also an acknowledgement of the vital and specific role played by the NYCI on the voluntary youth work side. The Department of Education and Science has a good, cordial and workmanlike relationship with the NYCI and I acknowledge this constructive contribution made by the NYCI towards the workings of the NYWAC, as well as by all others represented on the NYWAC.

The vocational education committees have, of course, a pivotal role to play in relation to the Youth Work Act 2001 in that they will be responsible at local level for the co-ordination of plans, proposals and activities relating to youth work. The IVEA chief executive officers' association is represented on the NYWAC. In addition to that, the Department has invited the vocational education committees to indicate to it their requirements relating to the implementation of the Youth Work Act 2001 as vocational education committees will be required to prepare three year youth work development plans for ministerial approval. These proposals will have to be discussed with the IVEA chief executive officers' association but it has not been found possible to have funding for this purpose provided in the 2003 Estimates. It is only fair to say that discussions with that association, the NYCI and the major national youth work organisations are ongoing in this respect and agreement will be necessary before the plans can be implemented.

At local VEC level, it will be necessary to have the voluntary youth councils established, as they will form half of the membership of the VEC sub-committee, i.e. the youth work committee. The other half of this committee will come from statutory organisations such as the Department of Social and Family Affairs, the Department of Arts, Tourism and Sport, FÁS, the health boards, the Garda Síochána and county, city and town councils. It will also include at least one VEC member and a departmental inspector. Considerable thought was given to the representational nature of this youth work committee so that it would be fully representative of all the major players involved in youth work at local level. This sub-committee will, initially, be primarily concerned with the drafting of the three year VEC youth work development plan. This plan will, in turn, have to be approved by the VEC and the Department of Education and Science.

It will be necessary for the Department to examine the proposals received from vocational education committees in relation to their financial and human resources requests. Furthermore, it will be necessary to engage in discussions with the IVEA chief executive officers' association, the NYCI and the major national youth work organisations in regard to the future funding arrangements for youth work. Agreement will be needed in relation to these funding arrangements so that this aspect of the Act can be implemented in a smooth and orderly manner. The legislation provides for the appointment of an assessor of youth work. This person will have a key role to play and his or her duties will include the monitoring of youth work programmes and services from the viewpoint of efficiency and effectiveness. Funding is available for the appointment of an assessor this year.

The Minister of State with responsibility for youth affairs was anxious to have funding provided in the 2003 Estimates for the implementation of the plan, but unfortunately this did not prove possible. However, it will be seen from what I have stated previously that a significant amount of essential preparatory work has been achieved to date. Moreover, it is the Minister's intention that there be continuous interaction between our Department, the NYWAC, the IVEA chief executive officers' association, the NYCI and other interests in order to advance further the arrangements necessary for the smooth and effective implementation of the Act.

The question of funding whatever implementation resources are agreed will of course have to be taken up by the Department with the Department of Finance. The Minister hopes it will be possible to secure the funding required at the appropriate time.

Thank you. We will now have a presentation from Mr. Pat Forde, chairman of the National Youth Work Advisory Committee.

Mr. Pat Forde

I thank the Chairman and members of the Joint Committee on Education and Science on my own behalf and that of the National Youth Work Advisory Committee for this opportunity of discussing the provisions of the Youth Work Act 2001 in relation to youth work programmes and services. Following from the enactment of the Youth Work Act on 1 December 2001, sections 17 and 18, which provide for the establishment of the committee, the NYWAC, were implemented. The committee was appointed on 22 April 2002 and held its first meeting on 30 April as fixed by the Minister.

The NYWAC is made up equally of representatives from voluntary youth work organisations and statutory authorities. To date, the committee has met on seven occasions. The establishment of NYWAC is a key provision of the Act. In order to expedite its business it has established a number of sub-committees to address issues relating to the provision of the Act relating to youth work programmes and services. Sub-committees on child protection were established to prepare a code of good practice for child protection for the youth work sector, culminating in the launch of the code of good practice in September 2002. Currently, the sub-committee is preparing recommendations for consideration by the NYWAC for the implementation of a training programme for youth organisations and examining minor textual amendments to the guidelines as published last September for a second print run of the guidelines booklet.

A sub-committee to make recommendations on the requirements necessary for the implementation of the various sections of the Act has prepared two reports, which have been approved by the NYWAC, on the first two areas of action necessary to put in place the arrangements for the designation of local youth work organisations and the establishment of local voluntary youth councils. This sub-committee's work is continuing with work on the criteria for the approval of national youth work organisations nearing completion. The sub-committee will continue to report to the national youth work advisory committee on this and other aspects of the implementation process of the Act.

A sub-committee on North-South validation and youth work training has presented a document for discussion to the NYWAC. Currently, the national youth work development plan is going before Government to seek approval for its publication. The NYWAC sees its publication as a positive first step in the overall development of youth work and looks forward to the commencement of the phased implementation of the plan at an early stage.

The partnership model of voluntary and statutory agencies working together for the enhancement of services to young people and in the development of the provisions of the Youth Work Act 2001 under the NYWAC is operating very well. However, a common frustration for the members of the NYWAC is the financial constraints imposed as a result of budget 2003, with the resulting delay in the implementation of the provisions of the Youth Work Act 2001. We are aware of the ongoing efforts of the Minister to secure funding for the further roll-out of the Act. I thank all the members of the NYWAC from both the statutory and voluntary sectors for their hard work, commitment and co-operation in its ongoing work.

Thank you. The next presentation is from Mr. Pat Ryan of the IVEA chief executive officers association.

Mr. Pat Ryan

The vocational education sector is very pleased to have been afforded this opportunity of presenting to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Education and Science its opinion on progress in the implementation of the Youth Work Act 2001. When in April of 2001 we addressed the committee on what was then the Youth Work Bill, the vocational education committees looked forward to implementing our statutory duties and obligations in a spirit of partnership with voluntary youth organisations and groups and with the various State and local bodies with an involvement or supporting role in youth work. We reaffirm that commitment, and we are pleased that many of the amendments we suggested are now enshrined in the legislation.

Some progress has been made since the Act was passed, as the previous two speakers have outlined. The vocational education sector has contributed to all of that development through its membership of the NYWAC. Equally, we have related both formally and informally with our partners in the National Youth Council of Ireland to the benefit, we believe, of the implementation process, moving together towards a coherent and cohesive approach to the creation of structures by which youth work locally will be strengthened and its influence expanded to the benefit of young people.

There are, in our view, four important areas that should be addressed: the filling of the post of assessor of youth work; the resourcing of vocational education committees to undertake the process and put in place the structures towards the development of integrated local youth work plans; the resourcing of priority development from the local youth work development plans; and the publication and resourcing of the national youth work development plan.

The post of assessor of youth work is, we believe, the national guarantor of standards, effectiveness and efficiency in the youth work sector. It should be filled immediately and reflect in the level at which it is filled the standing of the post. The assessor must be and be seen to be independent in implementing his or her responsibilities under the Act. That degree of independence should be reflected in the level of the post and in the procedures by which the holder of the post will relate to partner organisations, including the Department itself.

Potentially, the assessor could be called upon to issue recommendations following representations by a VEC or youth work organisation, where the Minister has proposed to reduce or withdraw a grant to that VEC or organisation. A recommendation by the assessor cannot be left open to possible allegations of tainting by virtue of previous involvement in matters leading up to the issue or through questions of independence. The level of the post and the duties assigned to the holder must be such as to obviate any such possibility. Also, as representations may be made to the assessor in relation to decisions that could arise early on in the implementation process of the Act, for example, refusal by a VEC to designate an organisation as a local youth work organisation, it is important that the office be in place as quickly as possible so as not to hinder progress.

Section 9 of the Act sets out the functions of vocational education committees relating to youth work. Those are fundamental to the coherent development of local youth work programmes and services. It is essential that they are co-ordinated and integrated with education and other programmes that provide services for young persons, for example in schools, training centres and health and social services, that they are monitored and assessed and have regard to the needs of those who are socially or economically disadvantaged. The minimal resources necessary to begin, develop and support that process must be put in place. vocational education committees need professional and administrative support to undertake immediate duties and, thereafter, to undertake their ongoing responsibilities that relate to planning, co-ordination, development, funding, assessment and evaluation under the Act. A meaningful resourcing plan for the vocational education committees is required from the Department. Without that, there can be little progress towards real local development of youth work as envisaged by the Act.

The kernel for development of effective and efficient youth work programmes and services at local level is the local youth work development plan. That is built on co-operation within the youth work sector locally and integration of that sector's provision with education and other services for young persons.

The mechanisms described previously are the first steps towards production of a local youth work development plan. The plan must then be produced having regard to all existing provision within and without the youth work sector and ensuring that deficiencies are identified and addressed.

This is at the heart of the Youth Work Act. Local plans must take a critical look at existing provision, add value to it and address gaps in priority order. Following production of the individual development plans, the Department of Education and Science must be in a position to consider the plans and relate them to national priorities and resources. The wherewithal must exist in the Department to undertake that task expeditiously alongside its national policy and overview responsibilities as are set out in the Act. Resources to meet priority areas identified in the plans must be available to and be deployed by the Department else we create the potential for disenchantment and dissatisfaction rather than innovation and animation.

The Youth Work Act 2001 recognises youth work as a planned programme of education. It is appropriate, therefore, that the priorities set for it should be resourced alongside the other sectors in education. The national youth work development plan will set the priorities for the development of youth work in the medium term, subscribing to national objectives on social inclusion, equity and personal, social and economic development. The Department must, therefore, have available to it the resources to meet the priority areas that will be identified in the plan when published.

We thank the Chairman and the committee for inviting us to make this presentation and we look forward to further implementation of the Youth Work Act as soon as possible.

Ms Mary Cunningham

The National Youth Council of Ireland is pleased to be afforded the opportunity by the Joint Committee on Education and Science to discuss the impact of the Youth Work Act 2001 on the effectiveness of youth work programmes and services.

The National Youth Council of Ireland was founded in 1967 and is the representative body for voluntary youth organisations and, as my colleagues have outlined, is recognised as such in the Youth Work Act. The council is also recognised by Government as a social partner. We currently represent almost 50 national youth organisations, including large youth work providers, uniformed organisations, Irish language organisations and the youth wings of most of the political parties, together with organisations that work with particular groups, such as marginalised young people.

There are 1.5 million people in Ireland under the age of 25, comprising 41% of the population, as indicated by the census in 1996. This is the largest proportion of the population of a country within Europe, and is far higher than the EU average of 25%. The National Youth Council of Ireland has campaigned for youth work legislation since the 1970s and we worked with Government and our colleagues in the statutory sector to shape the current Youth Work Act.

The idea for a national youth work development plan originated within the council. We identified the significant gap in strategic planning for youth work and urged the filling of this gap through our role in the National Youth Work Advisory Committee. Work on developing that plan for youth work in Ireland began in 1999 and the NYCI and its member organisations played a full role in that process.

The draft development plan, which was completed in 2001, is supported by research and extensive consultation and is recognised by all stakeholders as the appropriate way forward for youth work. The introduction of the Youth Work Act 2001 and the preparation of the draft development plan heralded a climate of optimism, confidence and self-belief among youth organisations. This was in contrast to an earlier suspicion that youth work was the Cinderella of the education system.

The NYWAC has responsibility to produce some guidance for the implementation of the Youth Work Act. The NYCI has played a full role within the NYWAC, in partnership with the Youth First section of the Department of Education and Science and the vocational education committees, in developing the details of the implementation of the Act, including the guidelines on designation of local voluntary youth organisations, the establishment of local voluntary youth councils and the approval of national voluntary youth work organisations. We have also lobbied consistently for adequate funding to support both the implementation of the Act and the draft development plan. On behalf of the NYCI, I acknowledge the commitment and dedication of the current Minister with responsibility for youth affairs who is striving to move this agenda forward.

Despite all these efforts, we arrive at the situation today where the answer to the question as to how the Youth Work Act 2001 has impacted on the effectiveness of youth work programmes and services is that it has not, except perhaps in a negative sense. All of the time and effort invested in these processes by the major players in youth work may have been potentially detrimental. These processes have been major diversions that have drawn energy away from organisations.

There is, as the chairman of the NYWAC has said, a growing sense of disillusion, frustration and anxiety within the NYCI and our member organisations. We fear that the Youth Work Act 2001 has heralded yet another false dawn for youth work. The reasons for that are clear. We anticipated additional funding to develop youth work at local level. Instead, youth affairs has received a 1% increase for 2003. With inflation this represents a decrease in current levels of funding of approximately 4%. Without the allocation of additional funding, there will be cuts in existing levels of services to over 500,000 young people involved in youth organisations and thousands of disadvantaged young people involved in targeted initiatives supported by 40,000 voluntary youth leaders and over 1,000 youth workers.

The Youth Work Act 2001 provides for the establishment of new mechanisms for the co-ordination and support of youth work at county and national levels. The core of the Act provides for the establishment of partnership structures at local level between the vocational education committees and youth organisations to support the development of youth work. Without adequate resources, these structures will be simply cosmetic.

The Act must be supported by the allocation of additional funding to ensure consistent implementation across the country. The NYCI would also urge that the implementation timetable allow for the full inclusion of all the key stakeholders in youth work. This would ensure that the true partnership approach provided for in the Act becomes a reality.

The national youth work development plan sets out a framework for the development of youth work over a five year period from 2003-07. It is anticipated that the plan will be published as soon as possible but, again, there is no additional funding for its implementation. The national youth work development plan must be adequately resourced. We recognise that current Government policy is to restrict public expenditure. Small amounts of additional funding, however, could begin the implementation process. It is estimated that the review of funding within the sector would cost about €65,000. The establishment of the development unit, which is a central tenet of the plan, will cost approximately €125,000 in year one. Of the almost 50 actions outlined in the plan, 29 have little or no additional cost implications.

In relation to the post of the assessor, the NYCI concurs with the views expressed by my colleague on behalf of the IVEA with regard to the grading and the independence of the post. This post, the establishment of which is provided for in the legislation, will be key in enhancing professionalism and ensuring quality standards in youth work. We believe it would be totally unreasonable and destructive for allocations or support currently provided to be reallocated or diverted to implement the Act or the plan. Implementation must not be at the cost of existing levels of services to young people.

The Youth Work Act 2001 and the National Youth Work Development Plan represent a unique achievement. Endless time, effort and dedication by so many young people, volunteers and paid staff in the youth work sector, by representatives of Government Departments, by academics and by the IVEA have outlined a way forward that can provide for a fully co-ordinated, integrated, effective and value-for-money service to young people in modern Ireland. On behalf of the hundreds of thousands of young people involved in youth work in every part of the country and the thousands of voluntary leaders and hundreds of paid youth workers who work in partnership with them, the National Youth Council of Ireland demands that additional resources and supports are made available to ensure the implementation of the plan and the Act.

Thank you Ms Cunningham, Mr. Breen, Mr. Forde and Mr. Ryan for your helpful and informative presentations. I am sure there are quite a few questions. I propose to start, as usual, with the spokespersons of the main parties who, I hope, will manage to say what they have to say within four or five minutes - the remaining contributors should take about half that time.

I have a list of people who indicated they wished to speak ^ Deputies Gogarty and Crowe, Deputy Mulcahy who has declared an interest as the former Chairperson of the NYCI, Deputies Hoctor, Andrews and Stanton, and Senators Feeney and Minihan. Perhaps there are others whose eye I did not catch who wish to contribute. I call Deputy Enright.

I welcome the delegates here today. We appreciate their presence. Having listened to some of the presentations, I assume we are all in agreement about the importance of youth work. In the long-term it is cost-saving preventative action. Too often we engage in reactive action to social problems. The development of a proper youth work structure is a much better alternative. We must also recognise that the nature of society has changed and there is less voluntary work, and that although there are many volunteers involved with the various youth organisations, we need an effective and professional youth work structure.

I have many questions following the presentations. One person who should be here today instead of the people opposite is the Minister for Finance because three out of the four presentations pinpointed resources as the main issue. If resources are not allocated we can do nothing. The disillusionment of people who have been involved in the process is obvious from Mary Cunningham's presentation. People can stay involved in a consultation process for only so long and I understand perfectly why they get fed up if they see nothing coming out of it.

In regard to the establishment of local voluntary youth councils in the VEC areas, I had assumed that a certain number had started up. However, it seems this too is dependent on the provision of resources. I note that the VEC has been invited to indicate its requirements. I would like clarification as to what that involves and what each VEC needs to do in connection with that. I presume no plans have yet been drawn up, but I am open to correction on that. Is it intended that extra funding will be totally separate from the existing resources allocated to vocational education committees? Have any vocational education committees started their three-year development plans or is that something that will happen down the line?

The National Youth Advisory Commission, which is represented here by Mr. Ford, has already presented two reports to the Minister on the first two areas of action that it considers necessary to put the arrangements in place. The Minister said in the Seanad in February that she intended to circulate these. She did not say, however, to whom they would be circulated. To whom are they being circulated, when is a response expected and when will we see action?

In terms of the rest of the Act, and perhaps Mr. Breen can answer this, what is the timescale for bringing in the further necessary regulations under the Act? Publication of the development plan for 2003-07 is expected shortly according to the Minister. I assumed that to be the case, but implementation is more important than publication. What timescale is envisaged? When this Act became law in December 2001, what stage was it envisaged we would be at in March 2003? If funding had been allocated in the last budget, would we be somewhere different from where we are today? That is the kernel of the questions we need to ask.

Listening to people today I can only conclude that if funding is not being provided, 41% of the population are being ignored. That point needs to be made very strongly. I agree that the approach being adopted to this is cosmetic. That is not acceptable and must be addressed.

In relation to the child protection guidelines, nothing could be more important for safeguarding not only children but the people providing services than their full implementation. Publishing a book and asking people who are already busy to read it in their spare time, which they probably do not have, is not sufficient implementation of something so crucial. What training is being put in place to safeguard the people involved?

I too welcome our guests. It is very important that we are addressing the issue of youth work at this early stage in the life of this committee. It was the wish of the committee, across all the political parties, that we should do so.

All the organisations represented here have put a huge level of work and commitment into getting the Youth Work Bill to where it is, and into discussing and developing a framework for youth work. It is unfortunate that, having put so much energy into the framework, the funding and resources needed to carry it through have not been provided. As Mary Cunningham said in her presentation, that has a negative effect on people's energy. What this committee needs to focus on today, and it is the reason we wanted to address this issue, is the question of whether we can progress the issue of the resourcing and funding of youth work. That is the kernel of the matter. When that level of energy goes into working together from different perspectives and setting up this framework only to find it is impossible to carry it through, it has a negative effect and people wonder about the point of diverting their energies. Around the time of the publication of the Estimates and budget we, as Oireachtas Members, would have received representations, particularly from the National Youth Council of Ireland, in relation to the amount of money needed to implement even the first phase of the National Youth Work Development Plan. At that time it was estimated that €4 million extra would be needed, plus €1.5 million to take account of inflation in the context of the ongoing costs of supporting youth work.

The point that needs to be made, and Mary Cunningham made it but it needs to be addressed by the representatives of the Department in particular, is that implementation must not be at the expense of existing levels of services to young people. I address this question to Mr. Breen in particular and would like an indication that that will not happen. I am sorry to have to put these issues to Mr. Breen because, as Deputy Enright says, we should be putting them to the Government and to the Minister for Finance in particular. However, this is the kernel of the issue and it is what we must focus on. What indication is there that there will be adequate funding in order to implement the first phase of the plan this year? What indication is there that there will be extra funding and that commitments under this Act will not be met at the expense of youth work already in place where there is an urgent need for money not just in terms of inflation but also in terms of commitments under this Act? In terms of inflation and commitments under the partnership programme, Sustaining Progress, there will be financial implications to be met. We want to ensure the funding is available to carry out the plan.

I wish to focus on the youth work budget and section 32 of the Act, with particular reference to the vocational education committees. Section 32 provides that "on or before such date as the Minister may direct a vocational education committee shall prepare and submit a youth work budget." Has the Minister directed at this stage and, if so, is there a definite date by which these plans need to be submitted? Do the vocational education committees expect to get funding this year? Given that they are required under the Act to submit plans when will they get the funding? Detailed consultations are involved in all of this. What are the timeframes involved?

Is there a remit under the legislation to address the question of outreaching and developing what has been done, particularly for young people at risk, disaffected young people and those who do not necessarily join youth organisations? Will the assessor be appointed this year?

What commitment, if any, has been given regarding funding for next year? Representatives from various Departments have stated they have no framework for a five or six year period and, therefore, cannot make cost effective judgments. Even in the foreword to the Code of Good Practice, the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, said "I am committed to ensuring that a suitable training programme is undertaken for youth workers". That is as blatant as it can be. Yet she has said also that no additional funding will be made available. Let us get to the nitty gritty. We already have the guidelines for the approval of local voluntary youth group organisations and the national one is on the way. Let us look at the training issue referred to by Deputy Enright. There is the Code of Good Practice but it is stuck on the shelf and nothing can be done with it unless training is provided. One cannot give a person a detailed manual and expect everyone to take exactly the same message from it. Therefore, the resourcing of training on the ground is essential. That is important in regard to another issue. It does not relate directly to the youth section of the Department of Education and Science but the Garda Síochána is not giving clearance to volunteers. Section 3 of the Data Protection Act prohibits third party clearance. At present the Garda Síochána is clearing people for the Special Olympics. There is a rumour that the Garda may keep people in that unit afterwards. Can we have a commitment via the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, that such resources will be put in place? The issue of clearance is important particularly if people are reading a code of practice from a book.

I wish to refer to a possible means of funding projects. The Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, has been shown to be a great gambler with the economy and with horses but he seems to be more successful with horses. If the pensions scheme was taken out of the Stock Exchange and put on the 5 o'clock race at Cheltenham he might get a better return. I suggest instead of 50% of the special savings investment scheme going straight back to the Government that it be ring-fenced for investment in youth programmes such as this. If people know that half their money is going to themselves and the other half is ring-fenced for a worthwhile project there would not be the same backlash as if it was wasted on horse breeders. Can that issue be minuted and sent back? It may sound facetious but I am serious.

Pat Forde's paper talked about a common frustration within the membership of the NYWAC due to the financial constraints imposed by the budget. Will the delegation agree that for any person working with youth groups, the common frustration down through the years has always been that one spends so much time trying to raise funding for the particular group when one should be spending that time with the members of the youth club? I share that frustration. There was a reference to a 4% cutback in real terms. My experience locally is that the huge cutbacks in community facilities, community employment schemes, JI schemes and so on are having an effect on the funding for youth groups. Many youth groups are looking at the possibility of their facility being closed down and the difficulties that will cause.

I attended a confirmation ceremony on Friday last at which Bishop Eamon Walsh spoke about the question of child abuse. He said churches should be safe places for children. The same should apply to providers of youth facilities. One of the concerns, as Deputy Gogarty said, is that while there is a code of practice there is no training for those involved. This is posing a huge difficulty for the service providers. Clearly there is a need for training to help identify children who have been abused, irrespective of their background.

It was stated that the voluntary youth councils will be set up. Are they on hold because of financial difficulties? Given that only certain sections of the Act have been implemented are there financial reasons for failure to implement the remainder of the Act?

Ms Cunningham referred to a number of issues in the document that will not cost money. What is the problem with implementing them? Is it a matter for the Minister to introduce this section?

I welcome the guest speakers whose presentations I found interesting. As one who was in a youth club, a youth leader in a national youth organisation, and subsequently a vice-president of the National Youth Council of Ireland, I wish to put this discussion in context. As I understand it, funding only came into the youth equation in the 1970s. While there was the Costello report and various Green and White Papers the reality is that from 1922 until the 1970s youth work existed very well without any form of State funding whatsoever. The further reality is that if one took every single penny of youth work funding away from youth organisations, they would still continue to do much good work because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who want to be involved in the youth sector on a voluntary basis and do not need, and in some cases do not want, the involvement of the State in what they are doing. The contribution of youth organisations since the foundation of the State has been enormous. Hundreds of thousands of young people have benefited from what they have done.

I have one concern about the Act, that there will not be undue interference in the processes, structures and methodology of youth organisations as they exist and that it will not be a recipe for nannying, mollycoddling or undue interference. By all means put the plans in place, provide the training and so on but let the youth organisations get on with the work they want to do.

What do youth organisations want? First, they want core guaranteed funding for staff administration and training. In the past the Minister of State arrived at the National Youth Council AGM and announced the funding for the forthcoming year and everyone was on tenterhooks wondering if they would get the same funding as that allocated the previous year. There should be guaranteed funding for youth organisations to allow them plan into the future with certainty. From time to time they need capital assistance for premises and equipment but those are their two basic needs. What they do not want is uncertainty in their core funding and interference in their internal affairs.

I would like an assurance from Mr. Breen that the Minister and the Department will respect the traditions and success achieved by youth workers. There are uniformed organisations such as the scouts and the guides——

The Deputy must conclude.

I am only two minutes into my contribution, Chairman.

Three minutes.

The first speaker took six minutes, Chairman.

That was the arrangement of the committee.

Am I not entitled to six minutes also?

The arrangement was that the spokespersons of the main political parties would get thrice the time of the spokespersons of the Green Party and Sinn Féin. Previously the procedure was that other speakers got the same amount of time as Deputy Crowe and Deputy Gogarty.

I will try to conclude within——

If there are outstanding questions I will come back to you as I had promised to do with Deputy Enright.

Okay. This Act is an improvement if it implements a decent work plan. The recognition of the National Youth Council in the Act is de facto since 1981. It was either Garret FitzGerald or Charles Haughey who recognised the National Youth Council of Ireland as a social partner so this Act is ex post facto. The National Youth Council of Ireland would continue to exist even if the Government withdrew every cent of funding because there is a strong commitment to this sector and we do need much State interference in what is a very good youth service.

I welcome the principal officer of the Department and our guests. I come from Nenagh, which does not have the services of a youth worker and depends solely on voluntary work, although I understand the position of my colleague, Deputy Mulcahy. Thankfully, our youth service has survived but an application has been with the Department for some time from the Nenagh Community Network which is requesting two youth workers for the town. I would like to think we are the only town in the country without a full-time youth worker, but I am concerned that large provincial towns throughout the country have no full-time youth worker. While I identify with the views of my colleague, Deputy Mulcahy, I also understand the need for a structure and someone to co-ordinate the voluntary workers who work so successfully and selflessly on behalf of the 41% of people mentioned earlier.

What initiatives have been taken in view of the increased population of non-national asylum seekers and refugees? Has that increased figure put pressure on existing funding for youth work? I am interested to know if any training programmes have been put in place to date in that regard.

I commend the work of the IVEA in partnership with the other partners present today. I am vice-chair of the North Tipperary Vocational Education Committee and I want to raise a query on the participation of voluntary secondary schools in the area of youth work. Is that recognised in the same way by the Department and the other organisations in attendance today?

I also welcome the delegation to the meeting. Its members have raised some points of serious concern. Naturally, the Minister is constrained by circumstances with which we are all too familiar over the past 12 months or so. Nevertheless, the delegation has been kind enough to acknowledge the role the Minister has played and her commitment to this area despite the obvious difficulties faced by everybody.

I share Deputy Mulcahy's view about the non-intervention of the State in some voluntary services for youth work, having been somewhat involved in that area. It is clearly a factor but we are dealing with a different framework now.

Are any of the vocational education committees taking steps towards implementation of parts of the Act? Are any of them preparing their own local development plans or do they intend to simply copy the national development plan because it will take a great deal of effort to produce something as individual as a local development plan for each of the VEC areas? I presume the vocational education committees will only move forward on the advice of the NYWAC. The question has already been asked about the timeframe in terms of implementation. What do the members of the delegation have to say about that?

I welcome the members of the delegation. Much work has gone into the Act and I acknowledge the work done by the advisory committee to date, which is comprehensive. I reiterate the disappointment that political choices have been made that resources will not be made available this year, or perhaps even next year, for the important parts of the Act to be implemented.

Ms Cunningham said that the review of funding in the sector would cost €65,000, the establishment of the development would cost €125,000 and that it cost €79,000 to keep one prisoner in gaol for one year. We should get our priorities right.

Have the vocational education committees supplied the information to the Department? Will that incur a cost? I am confused about that aspect. Has anything been done about the career structure of youth workers, about which there is a difficulty? Is that a problem where youth work is concerned? Would the delegation agree that every young person should have the opportunity to avail of youth work? I am talking about voluntary involvement. The developmental potential of young people is almost unlimited. Would they agree that there have been major changes in Ireland since the 1970s? We now live in a totally different Ireland and my colleague, Deputy Mulcahy, should move back to this century and away from the last one. I visit schools on a daily basis and talk to teachers, transition year students and so on and the main point they raise is that young people have nothing to do. With all due respect to the organisation, which is trying to do its best on a shoestring budget, there is no youth service worth talking about here but there is a massive demand among young people for support services and somewhere to go at night other than public houses. We are putting massive resources into diverting young people away from public houses but we have nothing to divert them towards, especially on winter nights when sporting organisations are closed down and sports fields cannot be used. I could go on. I am flabbergasted by Deputy Mulcahy's assertion——

The Deputy does not know what he is talking about.

I was in youth organisations long before Deputy Mulcahy's time.

There is an organisation in every town.

Not at all. Most towns have no youth service. Will the delegation agree that youth workers working on their own are vulnerable, that a team of people is needed in each urban area and that those people should reach out to the rural areas? We need to move forward quickly, otherwise the work that has been done to date could cease. I could go on for an hour but I will conclude with those remarks.

I too welcome the delegation and thank them for their informative presentations. In my area of Sligo I see at first hand the commitment of people like the members of the delegation and the work being undertaken by them. More importantly, however, I see the results and the benefits to communities as well as to the youth sector of the type of work being carried out.

I note Mr. Forde's frustration but, nonetheless, I still see good work going on and I do not share the opinion of doom and gloom being voiced this morning by other speakers. I will direct my question to Mr. Forde. The area in which I live in Sligo is a Border region. Mr. Forde mentioned the sub-committee on the North-South validation of youth work training. Will he elaborate further on that?

One of my questions was asked by Deputy O'Sullivan and I was interested to know about section 32 of the Act and exactly what has been initiated with regard to the vocational education committees and the submission of budgets, etc.

I would like to make some general comments. Society has changed dramatically and one of the major changes is in the attitude to volunteerism. I have been involved in a number of national organisations in which I see many people willing to contribute but being hijacked by people who have come to the stage where the associations are working for them rather than them working for the associations, vis-à-vis funding, salaries, entitlements, etc. The delegation members are right to come here looking for funding - that is their job - but as a society we have to be careful that we do not add to the depletion of volunteerism by allowing organisations to be hijacked by people. I have had that experience in a number of national organisations on which I was national chairman, particularly in the Asthma Society, etc. It even got to the stage where fundraisers were being paid large amounts of money, and drawing down large grants from the State, but I discovered that the society was working for the fundraisers. I have serious concerns about that.

I recognise the major contribution workers in youth services have made but I appeal to people to be conscious of the many volunteers who still want to contribute in an unpaid, unrewarded manner. We should not further erode their capabilities or willingness to come forward by saying that systems will not work unless they are all to do with funding. The reality is that the volunteerism of people like the gentleman who puts five or six children in the back of his car to bring them to a football match on a Saturday morning or afternoon is dying out, so we need to encourage them in that regard.

I am also taken by the comments of Deputy Stanton with regard to the funding required to implement some sections of the Act, which appears in the overall context to be quite small. That is something we should seriously examine because whatever about achieving full implementation, we should endeavour to implement as much of the Act as possible and in that regard I am happy to support the Deputy's call.

I promised Deputies Enright, Mulcahy and Stanton that I would come back to them if they wanted to raise issues not raised by other speakers, or if they wanted to join in the exchange.

There are specific questions for most of the delegation, particularly for Mr. Breen in respect of the Department's position. Questions were also put to Mr. Forde, Mr. Ryan and Ms Cunningham and they have noted the questions put to them. I will call Mr. Breen first, although I might stop him at some point and move on to somebody else, if he does not mind.

Mr. Breen

A number of questions need to be dealt with. I will start with Deputy Enright's point on VEC requirements in terms of human and financial resources. vocational education committees will require resources both of a human and financial nature for the implementation of the Act and they have indicated that to us. We will have to discuss that with them, but I emphasise that the Minister sought to get funding in the 2003 Estimates and the 2003 budget for the purposes of the roll-out of the Youth Work Act and also for the national youth work development plan, which it is hoped will be published in the near future. We will have to discuss those requirements. I emphasise also that certain measures will have to be put in place before the Act can be implemented at local level, but there is a cost factor involved for its implementation by vocational education committees.

The Deputy also asked about the circulation of the reports that had been approved by the Minister. They have not been circulated yet because we felt that would be undesirable until we had a number of documents to issue. We hope to be ready to move on the roll-out of the Youth Work Act also, in other words, we did not want to raise unnecessary expectations. However, the Minister will continue to seek financing this year.

We are all aware that the financial position is difficult. Mention has been made of the 1% increase this year for youth work activities. That was a significant achievement, particularly given the financial position. Also, I am aware since coming into this area in 1999 that there has been significant improvement in the level of funding for youth work in 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. To be honest, it would not be possible to say when the Act can be implemented because it depends, inter alia, on the resources we discussed.

On the code of good practice for child protection in the youth work sector, funding will be available this year for the first phase of a training programme for child protection. I hope I have dealt with all the questions.

We will move on to Mr. Forde to deal with the questions that were put to him.

Mr. Forde

On the reports from the NYWAC, we have those and they have been passed by the Minister and we hope to submit them to the organisations when resources become available.

The area of child protection was raised by a number of speakers. The update on that area is that while the guidelines issued last September have been circulated, currently a sub-committee of the NYWAC is due to come back to us at our next meeting, which will be held next week, with recommendations on the way a proper implementation programme would be implemented. I am not aware of the budget that is available for a programme but a sub-committee of the NYWAC has been charged to come back to the NYWAC with its recommendations on how a programme would be implemented.

At the last meeting of the NYWAC, concerns were raised by virtually every member in respect of Garda clearance. The current position is that, officially, the Garda authorities will not give clearance to voluntary organisations for new staff and volunteers. With that in mind we have requested, through the Minister with responsibility for youth affairs, a meeting with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and we are awaiting a reply. We will raise this issue directly with the Minister because at our last meeting we had a presentation from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the Garda clearance issue, which is of vital importance to everybody involved in the youth work sector, particularly to all the voluntary agencies.

Senator Feeney raised a question about the North-South validation body. A sub-committee has been set up by the NYWAC to look at the validation for qualifications in youth work. Currently, there are only two major institutions in the country that offer full-time courses on youth work where people can train to become full-time youth workers. We hope to get a common validation body covering both North and South. At our last NYWAC meeting a presentation paper was made by that committee. It has been sent out to the member organisations within the NYWAC for consideration and, hopefully, we will have a full report on it at our meeting next week.

Mr. Ryan

Deputy Enright asked about voluntary youth councils and if any have been established. There were 11ad hoc local voluntary youth councils, if my memory serves me right. The one in Galway city is ten years old. They were not established under the previous youth work Act and, therefore, did not necessarily die when the Act died on the commencement of the appropriate section of the current Act. They still exist but they are of a different make and kind from the voluntary youth councils envisaged in the Youth Work Act 2001.

None of the councils under the 2001 Act is in place because the appropriate section of the Act has not yet commenced. There are a number of steps, as we have outlined, which must happen before there can be a voluntary youth council. The guidelines and criteria have to be published, a draft of which is with the Minister of State, and a process has to be followed through. The process will have a previous step, namely the designation by vocational education committees of local voluntary youth organisations. They would be designated in accordance with guidelines, which also must be issued. The reason these have not been issued is, I presume, because the sections have not been commenced. To issue them now might give rise to confusion.

I was asked if any has work taken place. It has to the extent that some vocational education committees have held information seminars on the Youth Work Act with local voluntary organisations in the area. Again, that has largely petered out so as not to give an impression of commencement of sections which would include designation of youth organisations. All those seminars will take place prior to designation of local voluntary youth work organisations. No local plans been been submitted to the Department of Education and Science for the same reason. We have to go through the consultation process and the production of the plans and submission, following designation and following the election of voluntary youth councils and youth work committees from that process.

Deputy O'Sullivan and Senator Minihan asked about section 32. That section has not been commenced. We do not have the wherewithal in place to produce budgets. With regard to consultation on plans, how long that might take and whether there are plans, a small number of vocational education committees have been working on planning because of their connection and relationships with youth organisations. Obviously, the city of Dublin youth service board has been working on planning for a number of years. My own VEC is working at present to produce a draft plan. It will remain in draft format until there is a youth work committee in place. That arises because the city of Galway VEC supports all those youth work organisations which are funded through the Department of Education and Science.

The other questions related to voluntary youth groups. Deputy Mulcahy and Senator Minihan mentioned undue interference with voluntary youth work organisations. That is not intended. The Act is specific about youth work and that, in general, youth work will be provided by voluntary youth work organisations. The involvement of young persons must be voluntary. The State support and VEC support is not simply financial, although it may include financial support. A considerable amount of work can be done in co-ordination and adding value without necessarily having funding involved.

Ms Cunningham

With regard to Deputy O'Sullivan's comments about the dates when the plans will be submitted and the timeframe, that is at an organic stage given that the element of the Act has not gone live. Obviously, from the point of view of the NYCI and our member organisations, the timeframe is important. It is vital that there is adequate involvement and consultation at local level. The NYCI has recently drawn up a time line which suggests that it is about 21 months from when it goes live until there can be a local development plan produced, given that the local councils will only meet four times and they need to be adequately involved in that.

Deputy Crowe made the point that the need to secure funding distracts organisations from direct work with young people. We agree with that. Some communities are better placed to raise voluntary funds locally than others. We cannot assume that particularly disadvantaged communities can provide adequate youth work provision for their young people without such support. I concur with some of Deputy Mulcahy's concerns about undue interference by the State in youth work. The NYCI's member organisations have been actively involved in the process of informing the legislation, commenting on the Bill and have been heavily involved in the drafting of the youth work development plan. At no stage has it been suggested that what is being proposed is undue interference in youth work.

I also support his comments that youth work is primarily a volunteer led activity. There is no doubt about that. There is nothing in the development plan or the Act that mitigates against it. A total of 40,000 volunteers are involved in youth work. However, in terms of funding, only a small amount of youth work funding relates to salaries. There are other costs associated with providing services to young people, including programme costs and the cost of overheads.

Insurance has become a major concern to our member organisations over recent times. One of the committee members mentioned the days when volunteers might put six young people in the back of their car. Today, even if there were people available to do that, they would have serious financial concerns with regard to insurance. A number of member organisations have indicated to us over the past number of months that they have had to stop doing some outdoor pursuit activities because of the insurance premia. State funding will remain a key element in the funding of youth work provision.

I only wish the NYCI was in the financial position where it could survive without the funding it receives from the youth affairs section. I would be interested in talking to him and if there have been previous solutions to that problem, I would be happy to hear them.

Regarding Deputy Hoctor's comment on young asylum seekers and refugees, the NYCI has just completed research on steps to inclusion of asylum seeking young people, and I am happy to forward a copy to the committee. We recently commissioned the largest research project the council has ever undertaken to look at the inclusion and exclusion of a range of marginalised groups, including asylum seeking young people. I would be happy to forward a copy of our findings to the committee also.

Regarding the validation body, all professional qualifications on the island of Ireland are currently validated in the UK. Part of the work of the body is to look at securing an appropriate validation body on the island of Ireland so that professional qualifications are actually validated in Ireland for Ireland.

Thank you. The Chairman indicated that Deputies Enright, Mulcahy and Stanton could contribute again briefly.

I thank the witnesses for their responses so far. I am quite relieved at some of the responses, as they have clarified a few matters. Listening to some of the speakers, I was afraid we were going to try to repeal the Youth Work Act 2001 altogether, and I am glad that the Minister of State, Deputy Síle de Valera, is a bit more enlightened than some of her colleagues because she actually did seek funding for the full implementation of the Act.

Mr. Breen mentioned the cost for the vocational education committees of implementing various sections of the Act. Perhaps that has not been assessed yet, but if it has, has Mr. Breen any idea of the costs involved? He also said that he is awaiting other documents and reports before proceeding. What other reports and when does he expect them to be made available? Finally, how extensive will the first phase of the good practice training be?

I also thank the various speakers for their responses. I am glad, as I am sure is Deputy Enright, of the assurance from most of them that there will not be undue interference in the processes and structures of national voluntary organisations. Mr. Breen did not actually give me that assurance, but I know from his silence that such assurance will be forthcoming from the Department. Mr. Breen raised the issue of core funding. As I understand it, youth organisations can only operate now if they have a certain level of funding. They can only really plan into the future if they have guaranteed core funding and are not at the Minister's beck and call every year and wondering up to the last minute what level of funding they will receive. What is the situation regarding core funding for youth organisations? Is there core funding? Is it contemplated?

I would like more clarification on why the Garda will not give clearance to voluntary organisations for youth workers. When is it envisaged that a youth work assessor will be appointed, and how much money has been set aside for that post? Does the NYWAC or one of its sub-committees have a plan for youth information centres across the country? If so, when might it be implemented and what are the cost implications? Are there further plans to promote and develop volunteerism? The volunteer is very important in the whole youth work sector.

The Equal Status Act 2000 has been mentioned, and it is important for the Department to monitor the implementation of this Act in the area of youth work. What is happening there? Is there any interaction between the NYWAC and the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism? If so, what issues are arising out of it? What is the NYWAC's response to the recently published EU White Paper on youth? Are we in line with it or are there things in the White Paper that we should take on board? I am really pushing the boat out now, but I would like to hear the NYWAC's views on the need for capital investment across the country in purpose built youth centres. At the risk of being accused of nannying young people——

Mollycoddling.

Mollycoddling, nannying, whatever. If one is going to provide a youth service, one should do so in centres that are modern, clean, draft free, warm and attractive. Otherwise, young people will not go to them. Would the NYWAC agree that it is important that we invest in purpose built youth centres? What work has been done, if any, regarding the use of community and education facilities already in existence? Has the NYWAC looked into the possibility of asking the people who own and run those centres to allow youth work activities to take place in them? What progress has been made in developing an attractive career structure so that youth work is seen as a profession that people would enter? Allied to this is the registration of youth workers. I could go on, Chairman, but I think that is it for the moment.

Deputy Stanton already alluded to the issue of Garda clearance, so I will leave that aside. What is the Department's view on integrated multi-use facilities that encompass schools and community buildings and would be run in co-operation with local authorities? The Green Party believes that what it calls integrated public partnership is the way forward, and I would like to hear whether the Department thinks it is a good idea.

The Department representative mentioned funding for the first phase of training. Who is organising this nationwide training and what is the nature of it? Is there a budget allocated and who is delivering it? If these questions cannot be answered now, can we get a guarantee that the committee will receive the answers as soon as they are available?

We got nearly as many questions in that batch as throughout the entire meeting. They were mainly directed at Mr. Breen and Mr. Forde.

Mr. Breen

Deputy Enright asked about the vocational education committees and resources. We have had indications from vocational education committees as to what they see as their requirements under the Youth Work Act 2001, including, possibly, a youth work development officer and other ancillary costs. These will be examined by the Minister. There is a cost factor for vocational education committees in the roll out of the Act. That should come as no surprise to any of us. I cannot indicate a figure to the Deputy. Regarding other documents I am awaiting, what I had in mind were the criteria for a youth work organisation to become an approved national youth work organisation. Work is well advanced on that but is not yet complete. It will have to go to the NYWAC for approval, and then to the Minister.

The Deputy also asked about the first phase of training. A sub-committee of the NYWAC is dealing with that matter at the moment, and a meeting took place the other day. Hopefully, after another meeting or two, we will be in a position to put a comprehensive plan to the Minister for approval.

Subject to funding.

Mr. Breen

I already indicated that there will be a certain level of funding available for the first phase in 2003. The Minister is committed to that, notwithstanding the overall Government spending provisions for 2003. The Minister has asked the NYWAC to come up with a plan for the training of youth workers and so on, in line with the code of good practice.

Since I arrived in the section in 1999 core funding has been secure. It would be accepted that there would be a certain element of pay and non-pay in the funding of youth work schemes. I do not think the principle of core funding is really an issue, although there may be a difference about the level of funding.

Garda clearance is done on an ad hoc basis at the moment. As we have indicated, we are not entirely happy with the situation and for that reason we have requested the Minister to seek a meeting with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in relation to the national vetting unit. It is something about which we are concerned.

I was asked whether there would be a review of youth information centres. Every scheme we operate is reviewed on an annual basis, so that would be part of an ongoing process. As regards capital investment and purpose built youth centres, sadly, all our funding is on the current side. We do not have funding for capital projects.

In regard to the career structure for youth workers, this issue came to the fore in our deliberations in relation to the national youth work development plan. It is being addressed in that plan. I cannot say any more than that at the moment. Community schools and centres should be available for youth work but there are difficulties, such as insurance and so on.

I asked about the appointment of the assessor, as did Deputy Stanton.

Mr. Breen

I cannot indicate exactly when the assessor will be appointed but we have funding for the post so that it can be created this year. We are anxious to get clearance for it to be advertised and filled at the earliest possible date. As I mentioned in my opening address, the assessor of youth work will have a key role to play in relation to youth work programmes and services.

Mr. Forde

To go back to the issue Deputy Stanton raised about Garda clearance, I do not know why the Garda will not do vetting for voluntary organisations. We have been trying to find out why but I suppose voluntary organisations, particularly in the youth sector, are in the unenviable situation where if they hire staff, they literally have to ask them to get clearance. They have to write to the Garda unit in Dublin to get clearance and pay the appropriate fee. The employer is not in a situation to look for clearance. The Garda will give clearance if the person is to be employed by a statutory agency. That is a big issue for all members of the NYWAC.

A vetting unit was set up in the Department by the Minister but the only members of that vetting unit are the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Garda. Why are others working in a voluntary capacity not members of it? That is one of the points we will raise with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

In relation to youth information, the NYWAC has agreed that a root and branch analysis of youth information is to be undertaken and with that in mind, a new sub-committee will be formed at our next meeting because under the Act and the plan, to which reference was made, there is provision that the whole youth information service is to be examined very closely. That would be under the remit of this sub-committee. I would be delighted at any stage to give update reports on any of the issues we are dealing with to the committee, if it wishes.

Deputy Hoctor asked about youth services and the pressure on them from non-nationals and refugees. Wearing a different hat as a practitioner in youth work and managing a youth centre, I would say that our own service, a youth information centre, and the citizens information centre are the only two locations in the town to which refugees can go for information other than to statutory agencies. That has increased the workload in the youth information centre enormously over the last 12 months because they come to us looking for information and telephone numbers, sometimes telephoning the authorities in Dublin for information on their status. It is a big issue which needs to be addressed when looking at the provision of youth information. It is a front office, so people see the service, come in and look for information on their rights.

The notion of volunteerism is to the fore in the Youth Work Act in that the youth services are to be carried out by voluntary organisations. From the NYWAC's point of view, we would not like to see State interference but support for volunteers through any means.

In regard to the EU White Paper on youth, the NYWAC has referred to it but we have not had a full debate. I hope we will put it on our agenda. With the upcoming Presidency of the EU next year, it is something we will put on our agenda between now and the end of the year. As the year progresses, we will bring in issues in relation to the EU, EU membership and youth work.

In relation to capital investment in youth work and the use of other services, I fully support and endorse the suggestion that other resources might be made available to youth organisations because sometimes one finds, as a practitioner, that one must go out to look for a hall or volunteers come to us to say they cannot get a hall because the person who owns it will not let them in. They perceive that any damage to a hall is done by the young people, so they will not let them in. It is an ongoing issue which happens at the coalface for youth organisations. Looking at capital investment in the youth sector is something I will put on the agenda of the NYWAC.

Mr. P. J. Been addressed the issue of child protection. Currently, we are waiting for the child protection sub-committee to come back and make a report. We are very conscious as practitioners that people need some support in implementing child protection guidelines and need training in terms of what to do if incidents occur.

Mr. Breen

I overlooked dealing with the EU White Paper on youth. Four priorities areas were identified in this White Paper, including participation, information, voluntary activity and research. The open method of co-ordination has been adopted which follows on from the education area. In the roll out of that, the Commission sent questionnaires to member states on the first two priorities, participation and information. Those questionnaires are now with the EU Commission, so we will hear in the course of this year how it has analysed them.

Ms Cunningham

On the question of volunteers, there are two specific actions under the first goal of the development plan. They relate to promoting and developing volunteerism and a charter of rights for volunteers. These are central to the plan.

This issue needs to be kept under review and the committee may consider inviting the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, to give her views. On behalf of the committee I thank the witnesses for their attendance, making their presentations and answering questions. We welcome the suggestion by Mr. Forde that you update us on what you can because members of the committee are very interested in this area.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.20 p.m. sine die.
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