The next matter on the agenda is the selection of meeting times for the joint committee. Joint committees meet on a weekly basis and select sub-committees shadowing individual Departments meet when Bills, Estimates, motions and other matters are referred to them under their terms of reference. A select committee meeting will be held on the conclusion of this meeting to decide the membership of our select sub-committees. I propose that the joint committee shall continue to meet on Wednesday mornings at a new start time of 10 a.m. instead of 9.30 a.m. and that the select sub-committees shall meet at 10 a.m. on Thursdays when matters are referred to them. Are the proposed arrangements agreed?
Business of Joint Committee
That does not suit me at all because I have other commitments. Wednesday afternoons between 2 p.m. and 5 p.m. would be more agreeable to many members.
One of our difficulties is that the meeting rooms are occupied by other committees on Wednesday afternoons. As this is a new committee, we are left with the time slots that are available. Our previous time slot was 9.30 a.m. to 1 p.m. but I believe 10 a.m. is a preferable start time. Certain meetings will take place at other times. For example, we will be taking legislation next Tuesday and Thursday afternoons. A certain amount of flexibility will be required but the only time that is open to us consistently is on Wednesday mornings.
As I will be unable to make that time due to family commitments, I will have to resign from the committee.
We are supposed to be here at 10.30 a.m. in any event. As committee meetings will go on longer than that, if members are late they will still be able to attend them.
I do not think 10 a.m. on Wednesday morning is suitable given that the Order of Business is taken in the Seanad at 10.30 a.m. Senators are required to attend the Order of Business. I do not see why we cannot commence at 9 a.m. or 9.30 a.m. We are here anyway on Wednesdays.
The previous committee had this conversation at length and came to the conclusion that 9.30 a.m. was a suitable time. It would allow us to meet for an hour before business commences in the Houses. Even though it initially proved difficult to get people in at 9.30 a.m., it eventually worked to good effect. It is not an unreasonable time to expect members to be here and I suggest it as a starting time.
Is there not a slot between 2 p.m. and 5 p.m. on Wednesdays?
The meeting rooms are unavailable between those times.
I am agreeable in principle to 9.30 a.m. and 10 a.m. However, my difficulty is that the previous committee continued with its business when votes were taking place in the Seanad, although it suspended for Dáil votes. The value of this committee is that it is a joint committee which comprises Senators and Deputies with considerable expertise in these areas. I propose that the committee should suspend for votes in either House. If meetings start at 10 a.m. members would be facilitated if they had to leave for a vote.
In an ideal world I would second a proposal to meet on Wednesday afternoons. I suggest instead that we meet before the Houses sit on Tuesdays.
That is impossible for members travelling up from the country.
Everything else in the House is organised around the need to travel up from the country. The previous start time of 9.30 a.m. did not work for a number of members.
It did not work for Dublin people. The country people were always here on time.
That is because Dublin people have other commitments before they come to the Houses. The same applies on Tuesday and Wednesday nights when Dublin people want to work in their constituencies. A balance needs to be struck.
We will keep the matter under review. We can only get a room on Wednesday mornings at present. A working group of committee Chairs decides the arrangements and we will discuss the matter further.
We can deal with the matter raised by Senator Healy Eames on a case-by-case basis. I was a member of another committee which did not always suspend for votes in the Dáil. If it is appropriate we would suspend for a Seanad vote. If a meeting was about to conclude, members might not want to suspend it at that stage.
All I ask is that an equal value be given to both Houses.
That is a fair point. Do members agree on the 10 a.m. time slot?
I suggest that 9.30 a.m. is a viable option that should be considered.
Meeting at 9.30 a.m. or 10 a.m. does not make a difference to me.
If the majority of members are in favour of 9.30 a.m., I am agreeable to it.
I cannot believe there is no slot available on Wednesday afternoon. I look at the monitors any Wednesday afternoon and these committee rooms are empty.
Actually, they are not. There are only four committee rooms and there is great demand on Wednesday afternoon. We have been shown the table with the available timeslots. Wednesday afternoons are not generally available and the time available to this committee is Wednesday morning. We can keep the matter under review.
Bearing in mind what Deputy Butler is saying, we would all like to be facilitated at the optimum time. Given that there is not a slot available on Wednesday afternoon, do the Chairs meet at a particular time to agree the slots and the space available? Could we put a call on a Wednesday afternoon slot at that point?
Yes, we can certainly raise it at that stage. We must ensure it is agreeable to everyone. A Tuesday afternoon slot might not suit some people if they have the parliamentary party meetings at that time. Many issues are involved and there are generally no meetings of parliamentary parties on Wednesday mornings. These points need to be borne in mind.
Some members of this committee were not members of the previous committee and I understand that people have different points of view. In the previous committee, the meeting was at 9.30 a.m. We got used to that time and it worked. If we are going to work, the morning is the best time. Attendance at committees can be a problem at every committee. I do not say that I am better than anyone else. If we are trying to get work done, 9.30 a.m. is one hour before the Houses sit and it worked best for the previous committee. I do not really see the reason to move from 9.30 a.m to 10 a.m., notwithstanding the difficulties Deputy Butler is having. A half hour at that time can make all the difference.
Is it agreed that we meet at 9.30 a.m on Wednesday morning? I can put it to a division if people want.
We were trying to seek compromise on this point. Deputy Butler cannot be here at 10 a.m. The Chairman said he might be able to attend half an hour of the meeting. It is not very accommodating for anyone to propose 9.30 a.m., given the difficulties that have been expressed.
The original proposal was for 10 a.m.
We should proceed on that basis.
I propose that we agree with the Chairman's suggestion and, in the meantime, the Chairman can see if it is feasible to get a slot on Wednesday afternoon in view of members' concerns. We will leave it with the Chairman to work out an arrangement.
That is a reasonable proposal and I second it.
There are two proposals - one is 9.30 a.m., the other is 10 a.m.
We can proceed on that basis. We will write to the working group of Chairs of committees and ask for a slot on Wednesday afternoon. Is it agreed to meet at 10 a.m.? Agreed. The meeting time will be the same for the select committee on Thursday.
I was unaware the committee membership had changed. I thought only the committees had been divided. I thought I was on the wrong committee because there are new members of this committee. They are extremely welcome. I thought the committees were splitting, with the personnel remaining the same. That has changed, for the better.
To clarify, this is the Joint Committee on Education and Social Protection, not just the education committee.
Many people are missing.
A number of changes have been made to committees and it affects many committees. A vote on committee personnel was taken a number of weeks ago in the Dáil and Seanad. The changes were voted upon by Members.
It is my intention to work with committee members on a work programme. That will come up at the next available agenda. I would like all members to have an input into it. I hope the committee will be based on developing policy in the areas of education and social protection. I hope we try to influence the policy of the Oireachtas and the Government through our contribution. Our next joint meeting will be a private meeting to discuss the work programme. Is that agreed? Agreed.
I ask Deputies to return to this room at 10.30 a.m. for a second short meeting to elect members onto the select sub-committee to deal with Bills and referrals from the Dáil.
The joint committee adjourned at 10.25 a.m. until 10 a.m. on Wednesday, 4 July 2012.