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JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENTERPRISE, TRADE AND EMPLOYMENT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 Feb 2009

Food and Drink Industry Ireland.

I welcome Mr. Paul Kelly, director, and Mr. Shane Dempsey, head of consumer foods, who represent Food and Drink Industry Ireland. I thank them for their attendance. As we have a busy schedule, which is even greater than yesterday's, we urge witnesses to be as brief as possible in summarising their submissions. We have allowed five minutes for each summary. That applies to everybody. The submissions will be followed by a discussion with members in the form of a question and answer session, which is the best format to explore the issues we want to raise.

Before they begin I wish to draw the witnesses' attention to the fact that members of this committee have absolute privilege but the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Mr. Kelly to commence his presentation.

Mr. Paul Kelly

I am director of Food and Drink Industry Ireland, which is a business sector within IBEC representing manufacturers and suppliers of food and drink. My colleague, Mr. Shane Dempsey, is head of consumer food within IBEC. I thank the committee for the opportunity to make a detailed submission late last year and for inviting us to attend today's hearing.

The food and drink industry in Ireland is of vital economic importance to the economy, both in terms of production and consumption. The industry has an output approaching €20 billion. More that half of that is consumed at home as part of the biggest expenditure item in household budgets.

Some key facts are worth bearing in mind. Approximately 50,000 people are directly employed in the food and drink sector with a further 60,000 employed indirectly in all regions of the country. The industry also uses 90% of the output of Ireland's 110,000 farmers. The extent to which it is embedded in the Irish economy is demonstrated by the fact that it accounts for €8.3 billion or almost half of the goods and services sourced in Ireland by the manufacturing sector.

The home market is the most important for the food and drink industry constituting the sole market for many smaller companies. The industry supplies a customer base that is highly concentrated leading to an imbalance of power between supplier and retailer. The trading relationships in the grocery sector are almost completely unregulated, a situation almost unique in Europe. The imbalance in size between suppliers and their customers gives the latter huge buying power. That has led to unsustainable pressure on suppliers by retailers. If it continues, it threatens the indigenous supply base and will have serious knock-on effects in terms of price, choice and competition. It will lead to an inability to service more remote parts of the country. It will harm the viable but delicate fabric of smaller retailers and will result in job losses in manufacturing, sales and marketing across the country and the destruction of Irish brands and loss of export potential.

The narrow focus of competition law is insufficient against these broad socio-economic concerns. Legislation is required to provide a framework for a balanced relationship between the suppliers and grocery retailer and wholesalers. Protecting the domestic supply chain as an integral part of the overall food and drink industry and of the social fabric of society must be an immediate priority of Government policy and the ongoing work of the committee.

The top three retailers control 70% of the Irish grocery market. Thus a single multiple retailer deciding not to stock a product can lead to a supplier and-or brand losing over 20% of its sales volume. Not being listed with any one of the top three retailers undermines the feasibility of suppliers' overall business. Even global businesses operating here achieve a lower value of turnover in Ireland than any of the three major retailers in the Irish market. Other than Scandinavia, Ireland has the highest level of retail concentration in the European Union. Retail concentration among the top three is 64% in Great Britain and it is at an even lower level in Northern Ireland.

Power in the market and, in particular, buying power increasingly rests with retailers and in the increasingly concentrated food service sector. That is bolstered by the ability to de-list and source products from overseas. Suppliers are not able to recover cost increases through price increases. Being forced to fund what used to be retailer activities such as distribution and promotion as well as funding price discounting compounds suppliers' difficulties. A number of route-to-market costs are now largely controlled by the retailer but still funded and-or paid for by suppliers directly or indirectly. Those were traditionally a function of the supplier's role, for example, distribution and merchandising.

Food suppliers are struggling to meet the increasingly difficult demands of retailers above and beyond normal contractual negotiations on price. Those include high levels of inflation in funding retailers' marketing initiatives, promotions, merchandising and distribution. That comes on top of general business input costs which are among the highest in Europe. Those unsustainable additional costs may force many companies out of business and, ultimately, reduce consumer choice and competition in the market. Suppliers are compelled to meet retailers' demands due to massive buying power in the market.

There is increasing sourcing of products and brands from outside the State bypassing Irish suppliers and manufacturers. That practice, if left unchecked, could effectively cripple this important indigenous industry that supports over 230,000 jobs in the economy as part of the agrifood sector.

Let us consider what is being done in other countries. Trading relationships in the grocery sector are regulated in a number of other EU member states, including France, Belgium, Germany, Greece, Italy and Spain, with various forms of legislation in force to ensure that a degree of balance between supplier and customer exists. In September 2008, the UK Competition Commission published a consultation on a new grocery trade code of practice. UK retailers must sign an undertaking for fair trade with suppliers following adverse finding in its recent investigation of the UK groceries market. The proposed new code is a widening of an existing code of practice, which was introduced in the UK market in 2000.

There are many moves in this regard at the level of the European Parliament and the European Commission. In February 2008, a written declaration signed by 439 MEPs, including the majority of Irish MEPs, called on the Commission to investigate the effect on small businesses, suppliers and workers. The written declaration signed by MEPs stated that EU retailing is increasingly dominated by a small number of supermarket chains, that supermarkets are fast becoming "gatekeepers", controlling farmers' and other suppliers' only real access to EU consumers, and there is evidence from across the EU that big supermarkets are abusing their buying power to force down prices paid to suppliers. Such buying power impacts negatively on working conditions and the environment. The declaration also sets out what MEPs want: that the Commission's competition watchdog investigates the effects of concentration on small businesses, suppliers, workers and shoppers, and an assessment of potential abuse of buying power. They also want measures to protect consumers, workers and producers, including the possibility of legislation.

Separately and not as a response to that, the European Commission published a communication on food prices in December. Two items in the communication are pertinent to today's proceedings:

Practices which distort the relationship between suppliers and retailers should be discouraged. This is for example the case for late payments, unjustified or excessive fees paid by suppliers for services provided by retailers or tempting consumers with misleading offers. In this context, the introduction of codes of conduct would be welcome as an expression of retailers' social responsibility and national codes of conduct should be reviewed.

Moreover, it called for "Better regulation and ensuring a vigorous and coherent enforcement of competition and consumer protection rules as this could help rebalance the bargaining power in the food supply chain". FDII asks that the Government take the necessary steps to ensure responsible trading in the food sector. Across Europe, national legislation ensures that food industry suppliers are not dominated and overwhelmed by massive retailers.

The comments of the Tánaiste, Deputy Mary Coughlan, late last week that retailers must address price differentials but not at the expense of suppliers are to be welcomed. The Government must act quickly and decisively to put in place an effective legal framework to ensure the existence of responsible trading practices between grocery retailers and their suppliers; the establishment of an ombudsman to investigate complaints of irregular activity or the abuse of power; that suppliers are not forced to pay for advertising and the display of goods or pay "hello money" unless there is a clear benefit to both parties. Without these remedies, the structure, employment capacity and profitability of Ireland's €20 billion food and drink sector will be in grave danger.

I thank Mr. Kelly for his presentation. I do not know if he heard the presentation by the retailers, who identify issues associated with the supply chain as a major cost factor and cause of increased prices in Ireland. Will Mr. Kelly comment on this? He is asking us to protect the same supply chain the retailers have stated gives rise to costs.

Reference was made to "hello money" and the pressure coming from suppliers. How many FDII members and suppliers are required to give "hello money"? When answering, will Mr. Kelly give a percentage rather than names? Is "hello money" still a dominant part of the multiple retail scene?

Mr. Kelly stated his members are not required to fund retail activities such as distribution and promotion. Will he expand on this? What changes have occurred in recent years, especially given that we seem to have moved towards a model of central distribution, which retailers advocate as a model for reducing costs? It seems the FDII's members are required to subsidise or fund this model.

Mr. Paul Kelly

With regard to supply chain costs, there is no doubt that the cost of doing business in Ireland is extremely expensive. It is expensive because of high business costs and a variety of import costs. While comparisons are invariably made between Ireland and Britain, the two markets are very different. There are considerable economies of scale in the UK marketplace. There are 70 million people in the United Kingdom, thus making it a densely populated country. On the other hand, Ireland has 4 million people and it is far from being densely populated. The product sold into the shop in Newry has all the benefits of the UK economies of scale while the product sold into the shop across the Border in Drogheda or Dundalk does not have the same economies of scale.

One product that was mentioned is manufactured in Dublin. A man from Mullingar can go to Edinburgh and buy that product for €3 less than he can buy it directly from the supplier in Dublin. The issue of cost does not seem to apply in this case.

Mr. Paul Kelly

It does to a certain extent. Once again, we are talking about making direct comparisons between Ireland and the United Kingdom. It is not borne in mind that the UK currency has effectively devalued by 30%. Any economist will refer to a degree of reflation in the UK market. The vast majority of the multinational brands are operating on a euro-wide basis. Generally, they will have euro pricing and centralised euro-based procurement strategies. The companies will be sourcing most of the raw materials and packaging through euro. If a product is manufactured in the United Kingdom, one will find a small proportion of the input costs will be sterling based. These will typically concern labour and energy. However, in the case of energy, one may find in certain instances that it is sourced centrally across Europe.

The second point that needs to be borne in mind is that the phenomenon I describe has not yet taken effect across the United Kingdom. There are artificially low prices in the United Kingdom and that is because many euro-wide organisations selling in the UK market because of falling demand and the recessionary environment are actually absorbing their higher input costs in euro. This cannot continue forever and we are starting to see the first signs of movement in that regard. The official consumer price index figures that were published in recent weeks show that food inflation in Ireland has dropped to 3.2%. Across the water it is 10.4%, almost three times as high. There was obviously a spike over the past year and a half across most economies as a result of commodity price inflation. That is washing itself through now and the monthly food inflation price in Ireland is now 0% or 0.1%. In the coming months, one will see food inflation returning to its historic norm in the order of approximately 1%. What is evident in Britain is that the spike in inflation that came about as a result of commodity price factors will actually continue as the artificially low prices are finally being found out. Reflation as a result of the 30% devaluation is starting to take effect.

A significant number of suppliers — we are aware of some — have been under significant pressure from retailers. They have been sourcing from the sterling zone and incurred a significant proportion of their costs in sterling. They have reduced their prices not just once but on a number of occasions.

What about "hello money" and promotions?

Mr. Paul Kelly

That is a very sensitive and emotional topic. Our members find it very difficult to talk to us openly about it. We are not in a position to give specific examples or percentages. When the Competition Commission in the United Kingdom was carrying out its investigation into the supermarket environment over the past year or two, it discovered suppliers were very wary of coming forward and sticking their heads above the parapet. However, I can give some deliberately generalised examples. We are aware of two companies that have been threatened with delisting unless they offer promotional support, as it is termed. Between the two companies, this would amount to in excess of €500,000. There are plenty of similar examples.

These examples refer to the extremes but the most significant ongoing concern is that, at a time of rising input costs and falling demand in domestic and export markets, food exports have dropped by 6.5%, as shown in the Bord Bia figures issued last week. It is a very difficult trading environment and credit is difficult to obtain. At the same time, there is considerable inflation affecting the input costs of retailers in terms of merchandising support, promotions, distributions, etc. Our members believe this inflation does not in any way reflect the realities of the cost base.

I am glad someone has finally told us the truth about what is happening in regard to hello money and other phenomena. We have been hearing about it but nobody has referred to it officially on the record. We may now be about to do something about it. Today's agenda just concerns pricing but we must consider unfair practice at some stage.

I noted the points on regulation, which we will consider again at a later date. Is it correct that some of the suppliers FDII represents are agents for overseas products?

Mr. Paul Kelly

Yes.

They have been identified as a problem by most groups with which we spoke, so they must constitute a problem. We must address it somehow.

Mr. Kelly stated the top three retailers control 70% of the market. I presume they are multiples. Are they all putting unnecessary pressure on suppliers? Without naming names, will Mr. Kelly state whether some are exerting more pressure than others?

Mr. Paul Kelly

We use the top three because that is a commonly used benchmark across Europe. We are not trying to single out any individual retailer.

Mr. Paul Kelly

It is natural and it is expected that there would be ongoing pressure from all retailers, including the top three, in terms of ensuring prices are as low as possible. That is what one would expect in a normal, efficient, working marketplace. As should be noted from the comments of the European Commission and the European Parliament, this is not unique to Europe. There are pressures over and beyond what one would expect in a normal commercial trading environment. What Ireland needs, and which other countries have, is a degree of regulation in that area to introduce a degree of fairness.

If that issue is not addressed, will Irish suppliers go out of business?

Mr. Paul Kelly

It is one of the many factors that will contribute to it. It is a difficult environment for food companies for various reasons as I have outlined. Every week in the newspapers one reads of food companies announcing they are undergoing rationalisation programmes to cut costs. While many of these pressures are unique, some of them are outside of the control of anyone in the country. We want a degree of fairness which would be useful in protecting the overall sector and jobs in it.

When the large retailers put pressure on the suppliers to bring their prices down, is that price reduction passed on to the consumers or is it swallowed up in the retailers' increased profits?

Mr. Paul Kelly

There are various question marks over this. It is worth bearing in mind that the supplier has no say over what price the retailer charges because re-sale price maintenance is not allowed. There is a view that when price reductions are given by suppliers, the full benefits are not passed on to the consumer.

In the case of promotions, be it materials supplied by a producer or special offers at production cost, are these passed on by the retailer or does it make a profit on it?

Mr. Paul Kelly

It is very difficult to give an exact answer on that. The principle behind promotions is that they should drive sales and be beneficial to both the supplier's and retailer's margins. The costs of promotions invariably tend to be borne exclusively by suppliers. The benefit will accrue to both parties but the costs and the risks beforehand are taken by the suppliers.

I have already given some instances where large sums of money are demanded for broad promotional supports. It is hard to establish a direct relationship between the sums of money handed over and exact individual promotions. It tends to be the suppliers who pay the significant amount in promotions.

I do not know whether those who produce Jameson or Powers whiskies are members of Food and Drink Industry Ireland but when I look at price differentials between North and South, I tend to hone in on several products, particularly these two products which are made in the South. How can a bottle of Powers or Jameson be sold significantly cheaper in the North?

Mr. Paul Kelly

In the case of alcohol, there would be significant variances in tax and duty. It goes back, however, to the point I made earlier that what we are seeing in the sterling zone are artificially low prices. Sterling has been devalued by 30% and the cost of goods at retail level has not reflected that. They will have to reflect it over time and it is starting to happen in inflation.

One in six households in the Republic went to the North to shop over the summer. While significant savings can be made in alcohol due to the differences in VAT and duty, the same cannot be applied to ordinary food products.

One matter that concerns the committee is the labelling of products, particularly own-store labelling. What are its advantages and disadvantages to suppliers? What are the differences on profit margins between own-store labelled produce and producer labelled produce?

Considering the move towards farm-to-fork quality and traceability, is there a commitment to ensure Irish product labelling matches this? Is there a commitment to ensure food labelling indicates the country of origin? Is there a competitive advantage in promoting Ireland as a country of origin in food products abroad? Should support be given to such a promotion?

Mr. Paul Kelly

It is a complex area. The food information regulation is being revised and we have made a submission on this. We have also held discussions with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland and the Departments of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and Health and Children.

Specific Irish legislation is already in place for beef products and there are discussions in extending this to other meat products. In the area of processed foods, where there can be a variety of products, some of which may not come from Ireland, using the product of Ireland label becomes more complicated. We believe that country of origin is too complex and having a specific country of origin label is not the most appropriate path to follow. Naturally, Ireland remains the largest market for Irish food produce, followed by the UK.

Some of my colleagues recently attended another Oireachtas committee to make a presentation on the Green Paper produced by the European Commission on quality in agriculture and food products. Our view is that there is a range of voluntary schemes in place, probably the best known of which is the Board Bia quality assurance scheme. Use of the word "voluntary" perhaps understates the scheme, as it is fully certified and accredited and deals with all aspects of the supply chain. That, combined with promotional activities, is what is necessary to have more Irish products consumed.

Surely, bringing in a product from another country and subjecting it to seasoning does not amount to substantial transformation. Is it not of concern to Mr. Kelly, as the representative of a significant body, that somebody can come along and label it as Irish?

Mr. Paul Kelly

There is no doubt that this issue is problematic. It boils down to how transformation is defined and, in particular, what is meant by substantial transformation.

I have to stop Mr. Kelly. One does not have to be an Einstein. Is it not a joke, if one throws pepper or a sprig of parsley on something, it qualifies as transformation?

Mr. Paul Kelly

That is where the problem lies — the definition of substantial transformation is particularly loose and needs to be tightened. As the Chairman said, when somebody puts seasoning on a product, one really has to question whether the legislation is working in the way it was meant to. My understanding is that this issue will be addressed in the food information regulation. If it can be more tightly defined, it will ensure issues such as this are dealt with and only genuine substantial transformation will be covered.

I apologise for my later arrival and if my question has been asked, Mr. Kelly should completely ignore it. He talks about the power of the retailers versus that of the suppliers. On the flip side, is there any evidence that the big brands which possess greater power over retailers are using their influence to have the products of the smaller players removed from the shelf? If so, to what extent is this happening?

Mr. Paul Kelly

I am not aware of that happening. If we talk to the big well known brands, they suggest the powers they possess when dealing with the big retailers are relatively limited. The ultimate decision on what is placed on the shelf and the space to be allocated will be made by the retailer. I imagine such decisions are largely made on the basis of what will be the most profitable products for them. That is the natural choice one might expect them to make, but that is where the decision rests. Obviously, every single food manufacturer and supplier is jostling for space and will be doing his or her utmost to secure as much shelf space as possible because the more shelf space one has, the more likely it is one will move one's products. Definitely, the larger food companies have more guns in their arsenal in terms of sales and marketing capability, but I do not believe it goes beyond this.

I refer back to the labelling issue which is of key importance. I was not happy with the linguistic term "transformation". One can bring in chicken from south-east Asia, sprinkle breadcrumbs on it, stick a little leprechaun on the packet and write in Celtic script. That is what is happening. We have had discussions at the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Commissioner is looking into the matter. Italy has decided to go it alone in this regard since it has a very proud tradition, as regards artisan and locally produced food. We are not talking about protectionism but about getting the economy going, particularly for farmers. Mr. Kelly says the industry uses 90% of the output of Ireland's farmers. There must be a very clear signal from it that we are pushing our native produce, with transparent labelling for which one does not require a magnifying glass but that is what is happening. People think they are buying Irish but the products they are buying might have had a long journey to Ireland. We should be mindful, too, of the need to boost the economy at a time of recession, with transparent labelling and no gobbledygook. We should be pushing this issue, although I am aware the European Union is rapping the Italians over the knuckles in this regard. However, we should be pushing the message that the purchase of artisan and locally produced food on a clean, green island could give a boost to our farmers and the retail sector and pride to consumers who would know precisely what they were buying — a genuine Irish product, one that had not been transformed. If they want to buy New Zealand lamb, that is fine; at least, they will know what it is. However, let there be no subterfuge. We should know what we are buying. The word "transformed" should be replaced, perhaps, by "altered", which would be more appropriate. We should be moving in a direction that would give producers hope and consumers, choice, particularly when they read the label. We should get rid of the leprechaun and the script if they are not warranted and ensure the text is big enough for people to read. Consumers should be able to differentiate between New Zealand and Irish lamb. The grey area needs to be tackled strongly.

In one area we have a competitive advantage — the food we produce — regardless of what one says about cost or anything else. However, it is being eroded if somebody can just sprinkle some pepper on an imported product and label it as being Irish. We need to focus on this issue. Let us be clear — the committee is focusing on it so much and feels so strongly about it that we intend to travel to Brussels. I know some might regard this as another junket, but we intend to meet the Commissioner to discuss the issue. The one thing we have is food which we produce well on a green island. I conducted a study in 1974, when I was a young agricultural scientist. What is being done 30 years later to ensure we remain at the top of the tree?

Mr. Paul Kelly

While I largely agree with Deputy White, I want to clarify that when I use the term "transformation", I am quoting a phrase used in the legislation. It is an unwieldy term. It is worth bearing in mind that last year Ireland submitted draft legislation to the Commission on country of origin. It had to be looked at both by it and member states and at the time was unanimously rejected. Having said that, moves are afoot to address the issue in the food information regulation which is the appropriate place in which to deal with it. It has to be done on a Europewide rather than a national level. Our membership includes all of the lamb processors. Therefore, it is very much in our interests to support the purchase of Irish rather than New Zealand lamb and take all necessary steps to ensure consumers know what they are purchasing.

On the current rules on what can be stated on a packet, in some instances they are relatively general but stipulate that the message has to be truthful. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland, as regulator, has a responsibility to regulate the matter. As regards the size of the text used on packaging, one practical point should be emphasised — this is an issue for quite a number of food companies. The proposal calls for a minimum text size of 3 millimetres. Many food companies have done mock-ups of packaging and such a figure would cause them enormous problems. To put the matter in context, if one looks at the draft food information regulation, one will see that the text of quite a number of the footnotes is 1.5 millimetres in size. There is an acceptance at Commission level that parliamentarians and so on are capable of reading text half the size of the minimum standard being proposed for food products. In most instances companies will have text of sufficient size, but there is no doubt that in some cases the text used is relatively small, although often there are good practical reasons for this. It comes down to size.

We must draw matters to a conclusion. I call Deputy Calleary who will be followed by Deputy English. I ask them to be very brief.

I endorse everything that has been said. The retailers were with us just before the current witnesses, and they were coming up with methods to get supplies cheaper from suppliers other than the traditional supply chains. The new suppliers of one witness were being penalised by a producer because they were going outside the supply chain in order to give the customer a cheaper product. What is the reaction of the current witnesses to that? Is it happening often?

Mr. Paul Kelly

I am not aware of it happening to any great extent, but the legislation we are proposing deals with fair trading practices. That can address all issues for the retailers, be they large or small, both from the perspective of the supplier and the customer.

Is it fair to say that the small independent retailer is absorbing a higher cost due to the dominant position of the larger retailers? I accept that retailers in groups will get discounts, but are individual retailers being charged over the top because their suppliers are being hit in other places?

Mr. Paul Kelly

I do not think that they are necessarily being charged over the top. The bigger the retailer, the greater the volume they demand and, therefore, the greater the discount they receive. All these additional charges that have been passed back to suppliers have to be absorbed by the suppliers, and ultimately that will have an impact on the overall cost of goods.

This is one of the first groups that was allowed to go over time, so there obviously has been a comprehensive debate. I thank the witnesses for participating, for being so frank and forthright. It is easy for us to ask the questions, but the witnesses have to reflect before answering, and they did that very well. I thank them sincerely for coming here today. We will be preparing a report on all this, and we will send them a copy in due course. A committee like this cannot deal with this issue, but we are trying to make a contribution to it in the overall economic debate.

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